OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 391 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11701 of 12191 Old 01-24-2015, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
I wonder if anyone will ever release a PWM driven OLED TV.
I doubt it. In the case of plasma, PWM was a solution to getting around the fact that a plasma cannot excite at middle levels, despite the occasional mention of some weird attempts in that regard. I remember monochromatic plasma monitors in the late 70's......but plasma basically could not be a TV set without it.

OLED requires no such technology, so I would think that as the material itself gains brightness that it'll be easier and easier to pulse to gain motion handling. As far as color uniformity, I have no idea either way.

Cogito ergo sum makes a fundamental mistake because it ignores the implied existence of the narrator. Descartes might as well have said "A rose is red, therefore I am".
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post #11702 of 12191 Old 01-26-2015, 07:52 AM
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Universal Display and LG Display announce entry into long-term OLED patent license and supplemental material purchase agreements...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102367546#.

Desk
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post #11703 of 12191 Old 01-26-2015, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Desk. View Post
Universal Display and LG Display announce entry into long-term OLED patent license and supplemental material purchase agreements...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102367546#.

Desk
Very quick catch Desk. 4 hours ago.

I wonder: will LGD require that UD not exceed certain technological abilities? (In order to remain the technology leader)?

Cogito ergo sum makes a fundamental mistake because it ignores the implied existence of the narrator. Descartes might as well have said "A rose is red, therefore I am".
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post #11704 of 12191 Old 01-26-2015, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
Very quick catch Desk. 4 hours ago.

I wonder: will LGD require that UD not exceed certain technological abilities? (In order to remain the technology leader)?
This agreement is for LG to license certain UD patents and technology and to purchase certain manufacturing materials from UD. It is not a cross-licensing agreement and UD has not licensed any LG patents or technology...
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post #11705 of 12191 Old 01-26-2015, 10:04 AM
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Correct, Universal Display does not make any product (other than OLED input materials). The stock jump in UD just paid for my OLED tv and then some. Of course, UD is a long-term pay for me.
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post #11706 of 12191 Old 01-26-2015, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
This agreement is for LG to license certain UD patents and technology and to purchase certain manufacturing materials from UD. It is not a cross-licensing agreement and UD has not licensed any LG patents or technology...
Gotcha.....thanks for the clarification.

Cogito ergo sum makes a fundamental mistake because it ignores the implied existence of the narrator. Descartes might as well have said "A rose is red, therefore I am".
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post #11707 of 12191 Old 01-27-2015, 11:19 PM
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I have a pioneer pdp6100 I bough for a fortune back in 2005 and its still going strong. I have been concerned about what I would buy if it went down. My question for you who have been following the oled, do you think the oled would be a comparable image to my plasma?
Thanks
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post #11708 of 12191 Old 01-27-2015, 11:30 PM
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I have a pioneer pdp6100 I bough for a fortune back in 2005 and its still going strong. I have been concerned about what I would buy if it went down. My question for you who have been following the oled, do you think the oled would be a comparable image to my plasma?
Thanks
Rod
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post #11709 of 12191 Old 01-28-2015, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iasm View Post
I have a pioneer pdp6100 I bough for a fortune back in 2005 and its still going strong. I have been concerned about what I would buy if it went down. My question for you who have been following the oled, do you think the oled would be a comparable image to my plasma?
Thanks
Rod
Check back in 2017 and treat your plasma well. Otherwise you will need to assess what is available and what technologies are actually working.
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post #11710 of 12191 Old 01-28-2015, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Postmoderndesign View Post
Check back in 2017 and treat your plasma well. Otherwise you will need to assess what is available and what technologies are actually working.
Check back in 2017? He's asking now and the answer is yes. Not the same but a reasonable comparison.
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post #11711 of 12191 Old 01-28-2015, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iasm View Post
I have a pioneer pdp6100 I bough for a fortune back in 2005 and its still going strong. I have been concerned about what I would buy if it went down. My question for you who have been following the oled, do you think the oled would be a comparable image to my plasma?
Thanks
Rod
Nearly all current owners of the LG OLEDs feel they have as good or better picture quality than the best Plasmas. So you should be fine by 2017.
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post #11712 of 12191 Old 01-28-2015, 12:39 PM
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There's some serious commitment to OLED happening right now. This might interest some of you. It's about an agreement between LG and UDC.

http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...n-just-la.aspx
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post #11713 of 12191 Old 01-28-2015, 10:43 PM
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Thanks for the replys. I have allways liked to watch the plasmas and have three pioneers the oldest and my favorite is the 6100. I have a 4270 and a 5070. I guess im just used to the picture and the new sets I see at Costco do have punch .I will keep reading and hope my 6100 just keeps on going strong.
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post #11714 of 12191 Old 02-03-2015, 07:20 AM
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http://www.tomshardware.com/news/lg-...uly,28470.html


LG is making unbreakable OLED displays. I assume it's primarily for portable devices, but given the choice, I would prefer my TV to be unbreakable.
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post #11715 of 12191 Old 02-03-2015, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post
Nearly all current owners of the LG OLEDs feel they have as good or better picture quality than the best Plasmas. So you should be fine by 2017.
That seems to be a change in perception at AVS from a few years ago when the expectation was that OLED was going to be vastly superior to all existing displays including plasma.
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post #11716 of 12191 Old 02-03-2015, 12:23 PM
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That seems to be a change in perception at AVS from a few years ago when the expectation was that OLED was going to be vastly superior to all existing displays including plasma.
So wait, Rich's opinion is now the prevailing opinion on AVS? He expressed his belief that doesn't necessarily reflect 'perception at AVS'. I would say that most owners seem to feel that PQ is already better than the best plasmas.

OLED is really just out of the box and it's already superior to any display before it (yes, plasmas included) in the most important PQ criteria, contrast ratio.

For a first go-around, that aint too bad my friend.
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post #11717 of 12191 Old 02-03-2015, 12:56 PM
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I've read similar sentiments in other posts. I'm not saying it's the consensus here necessarily.

Just surprised to hear a tamping down of expectations.
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post #11718 of 12191 Old 02-03-2015, 01:13 PM
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I was trying to help out the person asking the question and worded it that way to try to keep from starting a Plasma vs OLED religious war. In reality, my opinion is the OLED is superior to the best Plasmas. Hands down. I would even say vastly superior. And I own one.
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post #11719 of 12191 Old 02-03-2015, 01:43 PM
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It's Not the Price

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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
I disagree; most everyone I've talked to clearly can see the difference between an OLED and the LCDs at Best Buy, it's the price level that keeps them from making the purchase.

There are other factors as well; I'd never purchase an Android phone, so it makes little difference to me which screen is better, and I suspect others have similar concerns.

I've tried to like LED/LCD before but just can't get over the poor black display in a dark environment and the haloing. Every time I've looked at sets before I return home to my ten year-old Panasonic plasma and am pleased by what I see, and short of a dalliance with a 65" Samsung plasma I'm debating whether to return, see OLED as the only viable technology that would provide me with what I consider to be baseline video performance rather than settling for something cruddy but cheap.

I fully realize I represent a minority, surprisingly enough even here on AVS, which is more videophile oriented than say the Amazon or Best Buy review pages.

If OLED fails I'll have to go back to hoping laser projection with zero fan noise somehow becomes a reality or that short-throw projection comes down in price.
I think what gets forgotten here, is the majority of us do NOT watch TV's in a dark room. Last summer we were at a friend's beach pad who had a Pioneer Plasma, as I recall. During the day, when the set was on it looked rather "mundane and muted" if fact a lot so! Then came night fall and the thing sprang to life. Most of you folks here probably have dark rooms and that's fine, but I don't want one, nor do I want a TV that is good, "only in the dark"
Reviews I've read says that the OLED's black levels are wipe out, even by
moderately lit rooms, and even on the very latest LG 2015 65" UHD OLED, one of the first things the reviewer mentioned was the "Dimming down of the screen, from the previous OLED models.
I would love to have an emission type diosplay, but until they can operate in the environment that I use them in, and I think , most TV viewers, OLED's will not become "Mainstream" or even close to it.
For me, it's not the money, its seeing a good picture in "My Environment", not the TV's


Gary
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post #11720 of 12191 Old 02-03-2015, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by 1959Dodge View Post
...snip...
Most of you folks here probably have dark rooms and that's fine, but I don't want one, nor do I want a TV that is good, "only in the dark"
....snip...

Gary
Gary....

A while back I ran a poll to see if people watched in total blackout or with some light on. The responders broke down about even. Half watch in the dark and the other half with some lights on.

Personally, I'm really enjoying my peak white at 60 ftl for my bright room that also performs well in a semi lit room at night. Some content is so dark that 60 ftl isn't too bright but others does call for lowering the cell light.
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post #11721 of 12191 Old 02-03-2015, 04:49 PM
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even on the very latest LG 2015 65" UHD OLED, one of the first things the reviewer mentioned was the dimming

Gary
There are no reviews for the 2015 4K OLEDs. Unless it was a pre-view review from a trade show. However, There are several reviews on the 2014 UHD OLED, that has only just become available in the last few months in very limited numbers due to manufacturing delays. If it was the 65EC9700 - that's the 2014 model.

This years 4K OLED 55 and 65's come in EF (flat) or EG (curved) models.

Just want people to have the right info.
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post #11722 of 12191 Old 02-03-2015, 06:39 PM
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review

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Originally Posted by Tomcup View Post
There are no reviews for the 2015 4K OLEDs. Unless it was a pre-view review from a trade show. However, There are several reviews on the 2014 UHD OLED, that has only just become available in the last few months in very limited numbers due to manufacturing delays. If it was the 65EC9700 - that's the 2014 model.

This years 4K OLED 55 and 65's come in EF (flat) or EG (curved) models.

Just want people to have the right info.

Yes it was a "prereview". As I recall, it was "supposedly" the 2015 model
(alto of course not released yet) and the "final 2015 product" could be somewhat different than the "Prereviewer" looked at, while at CES.
The prereviewer did like the performance of the TV, and He particularly liked the "less brighter screen", (paraphrasing)~~~~~ just not my "cup of tea".


I will see if I can find the link to it.


Anyway, fortunately, I have plenty of time, to decide what to buy and really would like to buy an OLED, but I do not want to change my viewing habits (environment) to watch it.


I will just have to wait until "REAL reviews" are available for the 2015 models.


Gary
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post #11723 of 12191 Old 02-04-2015, 05:41 AM
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DuPont's OLED unit Director of Operations David Flattery discusses printed OLEDs

This is a very good interview with DuPont's OLED unit Director of Operations David Flattery about printed OLEDs: http://www.oled-info.com/dupont-upda...-oled-tvs-soon

Here's a snippet:

Q: Dave - thanks for this interview. We know that DuPont is focusing on soluble OLED materials and processes. When do you see the OLED display industry starting to adopt such materials?

DuPont is focused on developing OLED materials for evaporation and soluble technologies, as well as working with our partners on our proprietary printing process.

Many in the industry believe that 2017 will be the year of mass production for printed OLED televisions, and while we cannot disclose the manufacturing plans for our partners, we have already seen one large manufacturer announce that they will pilot solution- processed OLED displays up to gen-8 in 2015.

DuPont is well prepared for when the market does scale-up. We have made an important investment at our Stine Haskell facility in Newark, Delaware, that will allow us to produce materials for OLED displays at a larger scale. We will be sharing more information about that soon.

Q: What do you feel are the major challenges yet in places for soluble OLED production?

Soluble OLED production is desirable because it generates less waste and allows for more precision. Historically the device performance achievable with solution processing lagged that of evaporation, and that had been a barrier for commercialization. But our most recent material performance data shows that with our latest generation materials and process steps, device performance comparable to evaporative processed displays can now be achieved. Now that this major barrier has been overcome, it clears the way for large manufacturers to make commitments and investments in mass production.
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post #11724 of 12191 Old 02-04-2015, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post
This is a very good interview with DuPont's OLED unit Director of Operations David Flattery about printed OLEDs: http://www.oled-info.com/dupont-upda...-oled-tvs-soon

Here's a snippet:

Q: Dave - thanks for this interview. We know that DuPont is focusing on soluble OLED materials and processes. When do you see the OLED display industry starting to adopt such materials?

DuPont is focused on developing OLED materials for evaporation and soluble technologies, as well as working with our partners on our proprietary printing process.

Many in the industry believe that 2017 will be the year of mass production for printed OLED televisions, and while we cannot disclose the manufacturing plans for our partners, we have already seen one large manufacturer announce that they will pilot solution- processed OLED displays up to gen-8 in 2015.

DuPont is well prepared for when the market does scale-up. We have made an important investment at our Stine Haskell facility in Newark, Delaware, that will allow us to produce materials for OLED displays at a larger scale. We will be sharing more information about that soon.

Q: What do you feel are the major challenges yet in places for soluble OLED production?

Soluble OLED production is desirable because it generates less waste and allows for more precision. Historically the device performance achievable with solution processing lagged that of evaporation, and that had been a barrier for commercialization. But our most recent material performance data shows that with our latest generation materials and process steps, device performance comparable to evaporative processed displays can now be achieved. Now that this major barrier has been overcome, it clears the way for large manufacturers to make commitments and investments in mass production.
I'm very skeptical about statements regarding Gen8 pilot production of printed OLED panels in 2015, but if there is any truth to that or other aspects of this interview including performance parity with evaporation-based OLEDs, that could be a further explanation for why LG appears to possibly be hedging their bets beyond any production commitments beyond M2...
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post #11725 of 12191 Old 02-04-2015, 04:18 PM
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OK , I finally found the article I referenced, in my previous post.


I've been studying OLED even before it was released for sale, and read about everything published or posted about them, so in this case, I was wrong about the source of the article, and also it is a 2014 model, not a 2015. (too much reading, I guess)!


Here is the link to the article.


http://televisions.reviewed.com/cont...oled-tv-review


Again, they seem to keep "emphasizing the need for a dark or "semi dark room".


Are all the OLED's in this forum in dark rooms, or can one watch it in a "normally lit room", IE daytime, but no windows shining directly on the TV?


If I were to put the TV in the "vivid mode" during the day, do you see any "repercussions" from doing that?


The other thing that concerns me is the freaking station logos that stay on all the time.


Thanks!


Gary
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post #11726 of 12191 Old 02-04-2015, 04:28 PM
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^

You need a dark or semi-dark room to appreciate the black level and shadow detail.

I watch mine in both conditions.

In the daytime two windows let in diffused light. I would say my room is 'averagely bright'.

There's no need for vivid mode if you think you might need that for daylight. I run mine with the OLED light at around 50 (on a 0-100 scale) in the daytime and 35 at night. They aren't quite as bright as LCD but they aren't far off.

IR exists but its very temporary (touch wood! - I've got 354 hours on mine) and have had many long gaming sessions of 4-5hrs within the same game and have no permanent burn-in from on screen graphics or logos.
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post #11727 of 12191 Old 02-04-2015, 05:10 PM
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Thanks for the reply!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fullybob View Post
^

You need a dark or semi-dark room to appreciate the black level and shadow detail.

I watch mine in both conditions.

In the daytime two windows let in diffused light. I would say my room is 'averagely bright'.

There's no need for vivid mode if you think you might need that for daylight. I run mine with the OLED light at around 50 (on a 0-100 scale) in the daytime and 35 at night. They aren't quite as bright as LCD but they aren't far off.

IR exists but its very temporary (touch wood! - I've got 354 hours on mine) and have had many long gaming sessions of 4-5hrs within the same game and have no permanent burn-in from on screen graphics or logos.
Thanks for the reply!


Gary
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^

Also to add on brightness there is a degree of ABL.

As in a full white screen won't display as bright as windowed white.

Find it less severe than previous plasmas but still noticeable compared to LCD/no ABL.
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post #11729 of 12191 Old 02-08-2015, 08:18 AM
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So I found something pretty interesting!

I found the user manual for the upcoming LG OLED 55EG9600 and 65EG9600 (curved 2015 models, both in the same manual).
It was put up on LG's US website just a few days ago, the EF models are not listed.
If you go here and scroll down you can download the pdf -
http://www.lg.com/us/support-product/lg-55EG9600#

Key things of note in the manual, and the whole reason why I looked for it, are the HDMI inputs. Interestingly, they are all suggested to support 4k @ 60Hz at 4:4:4 chroma if you enable "deep color" for that input via the TV's OS. HDMI 2 supports ARC function. What is not shown is if HDCP 2.2 is supported on all inputs. Seeing as that the previous 2014 4K model supported HDCP 2.2 on one input and 4:4:4 color on another, it would seem odd to go backwards in a new generation and remove functionality. It suggests to contact customer service for the HDMI specifications of each input, saying to me that I would bet at least one supports HDCP 2.2. Maybe someone wants to call them and ask

Here's a picture of the page regarding HDMI inputs.

I don't know if that worked so just go here http://imgur.com/jLQRGNu

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post #11730 of 12191 Old 02-08-2015, 08:39 AM
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Thanks for the link to the manual.
Said pg. 22 of the manual also says the following: "HDMI specifications may be different for each input port, so make sure to check the device specifications before connecting."
Wouldn't surprise me if the author of the manual didn't know any better, so this part might change in later revisions.
Really hoping for at least one HDMI 2.0 port with HDCP 2.2 and full 18 Gbps. Maybe the 4th one that hasn't been mentioned?
Until now I assumed that the 4th would be downfiring. Anyone with a photo of the backside of one of the CES models to confirm if those had 3 or 4 HDMI ports?

Sony 50W685
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