OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 394 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11791 of 12182 Old 02-15-2015, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by sarahb75 View Post
Realize that I may not be too bright,

So maybe folks might shed some light,

On why,

Thread on OLED TV being right,

Morphed into one on making light,

Then, I may be at peace, tonight.
You're right. Someday we might even morph this thing into a poetry thread or somesuch.... :-P
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Cogito ergo sum makes a fundamental mistake because it ignores the implied existence of the narrator. Descartes might as well have said "A rose is red, therefore I am".
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post #11792 of 12182 Old 02-15-2015, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by stas3098 View Post
And what that problem might be, I wonder?


P.S. This is a purely rhetorical question because there's no problem with it at all and I have not seen one yet because they haven't simply made one yet, and therein lies the notorious OLED light-bulb paradox...
They haven't made a time machine either, but I hear it's both theoretically possible and there's no problem with it.
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post #11793 of 12182 Old 02-15-2015, 12:54 PM
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Because this is AVS.
It's also why I tend not to visit this thread.
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post #11794 of 12182 Old 02-15-2015, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by stas3098 View Post
And what that problem might be, I wonder?


P.S. This is a purely rhetorical question because there's no problem with it at all and I have not seen one yet because they haven't simply made one yet, and therein lies the notorious OLED light-bulb paradox...
Gee, I wonder. The world is replacing a billion light bulbs right now... Big opportunity to sell light bulbs. If making an OLED one was problem free, you'd think someone would, you know, make one. Maybe sell 100 million or so. Case closed.

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Slacker, Ynotgoal, and xrox, absolutely.
Xrox, TGM, many others with regular smart takes too. I was specifically calling out those recent posts by Slacker and Ynot. Not to the exclusion of other smart takes, though perhaps to the exclusion of some not smart ones.
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There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #11795 of 12182 Old 02-15-2015, 01:16 PM
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It's also why I tend not to visit this thread.
Very wise Ken, ....unless your looking for a bit of entertainment!
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post #11796 of 12182 Old 02-15-2015, 01:29 PM
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Was there a sentence in that ^^^^ gobbledygook?


Don't go throwing a flurry of words in hopes of staving off a discussion. Stas, while there are absolutely hole-charges in the flow of any current (at any voltage), it's not the electron-hole recombination that produces light with incandescents. It's the raw heating up of the filament. Things heated up (by any means) will often glow, and they glow at differing frequencies depending upon material and temperature.
1. I don't even know any more


2. Not directly, but the electron-hole recombination produces heat (due to resistance) that heats up the filament.


And FYI I was not debating the fact that when things become calid enough they don't turn lambent, of course they do, though, in many cases they irradiate rather subfusc light or in other words things do glow when heated up


My main point was , in a nutshell, that the flow of current makes incandescents produce heat (infrared) which we perceive as light( some of that heat comes in the form of visible light) and that the flow of current (induced by voltage) makes OLEDs work as well( by inducing the flow of holes and electrons through the emitter (via some metal present in the emitter) where when the holes and electrons recombine they release photons of different (usually invisible) frequencies whose frequency then changed to the targeted frequencies by organic compounds present in the emitter).

....

Last edited by stas3098; 02-15-2015 at 02:58 PM. Reason: Clarification
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post #11797 of 12182 Old 02-15-2015, 02:12 PM
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Gee, I wonder. The world is replacing a billion light bulbs right now... Big opportunity to sell light bulbs. If making an OLED one was problem free, you'd think someone would, you know, make one. Maybe sell 100 million or so. Case closed.

...false dichotomy...

....
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post #11798 of 12182 Old 02-15-2015, 06:25 PM
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I hope you understand that all the things in the world have the property of "lucency" when subjected to certain conditions and that there's only one way that said lucency can be induced, to wit, by the process of recombination of holes and electrons and the subsequent release of energy in the form of photons which (the subsequent release of energy),in turn, is caused by a catalytic disturbant event (in the case of OLED it is application of voltage) that thereupon leads to the creation of "holes" and thereafter to the flow of elections in absolute and complete accordance with the Law of Conservation of Energy which enjoys the role of governance over the transfer of energy which has theretofore happened in the same exact vein an uncountable number of times and to say otherwise is to totally misunderstand the basic workings of physics, but however things might be this is not a physics forum, wherefore I shall not proceed to expand on the "all objects have a property of lucency" dictum that was put forth quite sometime ago and which enjoys the privilege of pertaining to every single aspect and facet of our life...


Now I hope that you guys understand that all things emit light (though, not always visible that light might be) when subjected to certain conditions and that there's only one way that light can be emitted and that is by the recombination of holes and electrons.

....

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post #11799 of 12182 Old 02-15-2015, 08:51 PM
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Is there a correlation between lucid and lucency?
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post #11800 of 12182 Old 02-15-2015, 09:42 PM
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Is there a correlation between lucid and lucency?

Certainly, there is for they both originate from the Latin word for "light" (lux) thence "lucency" denotes "light", howbeit "lucidity" is usually taken to mean "perspicuity", "coherency" or "clearness (of mind)" and "lucid" ,in sooth, bespeaks "not of wode or temerarious mind (disposition)", "reasonable" or "bright". FYI also such words as luxurious, luxuriant, luculent, luculence luxury, luminary, illumination, luminance, illuminant, lumen, luminesce, illuminate, pellucid, pellucidity, pellucidate, elucidate, luminous, luminousness etc., come from the same Latin word for "light".


P.S. Mind-bending stuff , I know

....

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post #11801 of 12182 Old 02-15-2015, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by stas3098 View Post
...false dichotomy...
You would seem to be the expert on false parallels without question. I would say you might want to stay away from commenting on whether the utter lack of a single production OLED light bulb somehow is evidence for your claim of the ease of producing one, however. It's like arguing that the fact we haven't detected a shred of alien life is certainly proof the universe is teeming with it because, well, it's likely it's out there!

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[SIZE=1][SIZE=2][SIZE=3
Now I hope that you guys understand that all things emit light (though, not always visible that light might be) when subjected to certain conditions and that there's only one way that light can be emitted and that is by the recombination of holes and electrons.
I hope you understand that the relevance of this to the price of tea in China is low and the relevance of the price of tea in China to the rest of this conversation is very nearly as high as the fact that the "only way light can be emitted is by the recombination of holes and electrons."

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #11802 of 12182 Old 02-15-2015, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
You would seem to be the expert on false parallels without question. I would say you might want to stay away from commenting on whether the utter lack of a single production OLED light bulb somehow is evidence for your claim of the ease of producing one, however. It's like arguing that the fact we haven't detected a shred of alien life is certainly proof the universe is teeming with it because, well, it's likely it's out there!



I hope you understand that the relevance of this to the price of tea in China is low and the relevance of the price of tea in China to the rest of this conversation is very nearly as high as the fact that the "only way light can be emitted is by the recombination of holes and electrons."

For the record, I never said it was going to be easy to make an OLED light bulb compatible with an Edison socket, all I said was that it was possible to cobble an "OLED-based light bulb" together that would fit into a good old Edison socket(but what would the point of such a contrivance be, what with the current OLED production costs?), but then things somehow got away from me, spiraled out of control and degraded into this...


And in reality the chances of an OLED light bulb coming into existence within this decade are rather slim...


And to be honest, the main reason why there's no OLED light bulb is purely economical. The viability of such a source of light is univocally non-existent, but the viability of an OLED luminaire (a complete lighting unit) is not so murky.

P.S. My own medicine does taste somewhat like Chinese tea.

....

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post #11803 of 12182 Old 02-16-2015, 05:12 AM
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Is there a correlation between lucid and lucency?
Apparently not.
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Cogito ergo sum makes a fundamental mistake because it ignores the implied existence of the narrator. Descartes might as well have said "A rose is red, therefore I am".
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post #11804 of 12182 Old 02-16-2015, 06:53 AM
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And to be honest, the main reason why there's no OLED light bulb is purely economical. The viability of such a source of light is univocally non-existent, but the viability of an OLED luminaire (a complete lighting unit) is not so murky.
So you've been lying previously since you're only being honest now?

Are there real working prototypes being shown somewhere, but nothing on the market? If not, I don't see how you can make the claim you're making. Lots of things that are technically feasible but not commercially viable are shown as prototypes or proofs of concept while the makers attempt to drum up interest and get them commercially viable. If there are no prototypes or proofs of concept the natural conclusion is quite a bit different than the one you're claiming.
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post #11805 of 12182 Old 02-16-2015, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by stas3098 View Post
For the record, I never said it was going to be easy to make an OLED light bulb compatible with an Edison socket, all I said was that it was possible to cobble an "OLED-based light bulb" together that would fit into a good old Edison socket(but what would the point of such a contrivance be, what with the current OLED production costs?), but then things somehow got away from me, spiraled out of control and degraded into this...
In other words, what I said was actually true and you in fact agree.

I shall continue reading your scientific approach to things now that I know you are not choosing to be obstinate just for the sake of it.
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And in reality the chances of an OLED light bulb coming into existence within this decade are rather slim...
And at an interesting price. The chances are zero.

We were in Ikea yesterday where they are hawking 40w-equivalent LED bulbs for $3.50. I suspect in a year 60w equivalents will be the same price.

That seems like the new normal and it's basically upon us.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #11806 of 12182 Old 02-16-2015, 03:31 PM
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Here's an OLED light bulb prototype:



....
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post #11807 of 12182 Old 02-16-2015, 09:54 PM
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On a different note, MEMS is now becoming backlit and has response much faster than LCD and OLED. But the prototypes, so far, are small. This pleases me much, since I am not totally impressed by LCD and OLED shutter-based technologies. I highly doubt that OLED is similar to Wildfire which also claims to be purely emissive.

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post #11808 of 12182 Old 02-17-2015, 12:00 PM
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So you've been lying previously since you're only being honest now?

Are there real working prototypes being shown somewhere, but nothing on the market? If not, I don't see how you can make the claim you're making. Lots of things that are technically feasible but not commercially viable are shown as prototypes or proofs of concept while the makers attempt to drum up interest and get them commercially viable. If there are no prototypes or proofs of concept the natural conclusion is quite a bit different than the one you're claiming.
There are prototype and even commercially available white OLED lights (not Edison socket bulbs) but lights. They are ridiculously expensive, but they exist.

The real market for OLED lighting is in accent lighting or on planes of glass or on curved surfaces with FOLED. As a shareholder of Universal Display, I wish that the world's replacement of incandescent lighting would have skipped LED and gone to OLED, but alas, that is not going to happen.
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post #11809 of 12182 Old 02-17-2015, 01:23 PM
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On a different not, MEMS is now becoming backlit and has response much faster than LCD and OLED.
Uhh, OLED has ridiculously fast response times...

Remember, response time does not equal refresh rate, input lag, nor low motion blur.
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post #11810 of 12182 Old 02-17-2015, 04:35 PM
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Uhh, OLED has ridiculously fast response times...

Remember, response time does not equal refresh rate, input lag, nor low motion blur.
I'm fairly certain he knows this. And FWIW, MEMS cells can actually shutter in a 1/10th of a millisecond. And the jury is still out on the role GtG plays with motion blur.

Cogito ergo sum makes a fundamental mistake because it ignores the implied existence of the narrator. Descartes might as well have said "A rose is red, therefore I am".

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post #11811 of 12182 Old 02-17-2015, 06:31 PM
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And FWIW, MEMS cells can actually shutter in a 1/10th of a millisecond
And OLED is stated to have a response time a of less 0.01 ms, aka 1/100th of a millisecond - and that's apparently a conservative measurement.
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post #11812 of 12182 Old 02-17-2015, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
So you've been lying previously since you're only being honest now?

Are there real working prototypes being shown somewhere, but nothing on the market? If not, I don't see how you can make the claim you're making. Lots of things that are technically feasible but not commercially viable are shown as prototypes or proofs of concept while the makers attempt to drum up interest and get them commercially viable. If there are no prototypes or proofs of concept the natural conclusion is quite a bit different than the one you're claiming.
There are prototypes out there (as I have shown), but whether or not there are prototypes has very little bearing on my original argument. My main point was that there were nothing out there precluding an OLED light bulb from springing to existence on the physics' side of the street


And on a loosely related note, my "swevens of the futurity" might not well be yours "swevens of the futurity" and sweb I might of the bright future for OLED lighting, but you might not, and it's okay and it's alright. There's nothing wrong with that. Everybody's entitled to their own opinion.

....

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post #11813 of 12182 Old 02-17-2015, 07:36 PM
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And OLED is stated to have a response time a of less 0.01 ms, aka 1/100th of a millisecond - and that's apparently a conservative measurement.
Where did you read that? LG has listed their tech at .1 ms, not 0.01. And where did you get that as a conservative measurement?

EDIT: I think I found where you likely got that measurement from. The wikipedia page. Sigh. Yet again this thing shows up. The problem with misinformationpedia is how the authors completely misinterpret what the originating statements are saying. The quote from oled-info was "1000 times faster than LCD". That doesn't put it at 1/100th of a millisecond without lab results, because LCD times vary tremendously from level to level (hence the absurdly differing values in the GtG charts for LCD).

Cogito ergo sum makes a fundamental mistake because it ignores the implied existence of the narrator. Descartes might as well have said "A rose is red, therefore I am".

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post #11814 of 12182 Old 02-17-2015, 08:42 PM
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From that link, it doesn't sound like MEMS is being envisioned for large displays any time soon.

They're targeting 7-inch tablets at a time when phablets are pushing them to extinction.
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post #11815 of 12182 Old 02-17-2015, 08:43 PM
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Where did you read that? LG has listed their tech at .1 ms, not 0.01. And where did you get that as a conservative measurement?
OLED has ,in theory, a near instantaneous response time... and ,in theory, the 0.01 ms estimate is very conservative in my opinion... but to know that you first have to understand the physics behind OLED. But however things might stand in the Theory Land, 0.1 ms is what the response time usually comes down to, in reality, for current OLEDs...

....

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post #11816 of 12182 Old 02-17-2015, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

EDIT: I think I found where you likely got that measurement from. The wikipedia page. Sigh. Yet again this thing shows up. The problem with misinformationpedia is how the authors completely misinterpret what the originating statements are saying. The quote from oled-info was "1000 times faster than LCD". That doesn't put it at 1/100th of a millisecond without lab results, because LCD times vary tremendously from level to level (hence the absurdly differing values in the GtG charts for LCD).


Here's a whitepaper that put it at 0,01 ms and lower

http://www.journalofvision.org/content/14/9/2.full
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....
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Here's the lab results that put it at 0,01 ms and lower

http://www.journalofvision.org/content/14/9/2.full
Thank you! I knew it was somewhere but I didn't have time to find it.

Besides, even if OLED "only" has a 0.1ms response time, that's still on par with MEMS...
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post #11818 of 12182 Old 02-17-2015, 09:37 PM
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Here's the response time quote from a Samsung patent:


Furthermore, OLEDs have very small response times, 0.01 ms and less, compared with LCDs (about 2 ms)



http://www.google.co.ug/patents/US20120146489

....
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post #11819 of 12182 Old 02-18-2015, 05:55 AM
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And OLED is stated to have a response time a of less 0.01 ms, aka 1/100th of a millisecond - and that's apparently a conservative measurement.
It hasn't shown in real world tests of OLED.
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post #11820 of 12182 Old 02-18-2015, 10:36 AM
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Sony is still in the professional OLED Monitor market. They just announced a 4K model: http://www.tvnewscheck.com/playout/2...aster-monitor/
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