OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 395 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11821 of 11833 Old 02-18-2015, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by stas3098 View Post
Here's a whitepaper that put it at 0,01 ms and lower

http://www.journalofvision.org/content/14/9/2.full
Ok...I believe it. But it didn't "put it at" anything as a measurement. Their statement was this: "however, an OLED can theoretically have less than a 0.01-ms response time". Theory. Just more handed around information. It wasn't a measurement, nor a statement from the manufacturer. They also said: "There was no information on the response time for the CRT and OLED screens from the manufacturer."

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post #11822 of 11833 Old 02-18-2015, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by stas3098 View Post
Here's the response time quote from a Samsung patent:


Furthermore, OLEDs have very small response times, 0.01 ms and less, compared with LCDs (about 2 ms)



http://www.google.co.ug/patents/US20120146489
I'll not dig into that to verify, I'll take your word for it. But does anyone have a graph from actual measurements? It's not coming up on google image search.

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post #11823 of 11833 Old 02-18-2015, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post
Sony is still in the professional OLED Monitor market. They just announced a 4K model: http://www.tvnewscheck.com/playout/2...aster-monitor/
Here's the actual official press release:
http://blog.sony.com/press/sony-expa...eo-production/
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post #11824 of 11833 Old 02-18-2015, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
I'll not dig into that to verify, I'll take your word for it. But does anyone have a graph from actual measurements? It's not coming up on google image search.
Actual measurements:


http://www.intechopen.com/books/orga...-communication


They claim to have achieved the 20Mhz (20 000 000 hz) "refresh rate "with OLED and they say the 160Mhz "refresh rate" is quite possible, as well... they also found the "response time" for one of their compounds to be a little bit bigger than 0,2 ns or 0,0000002 ms (and this is not the limit by any means).




The highest cutoff frequency of PL intensity can reach about 160 MHz using one substituted phenyl/vinyl compound, DSB, of which the fluorescence lifetime was 0.2 ns.


P.S. Please note that I have taken the liberty of extrapolating "response times" and "refresh rates" for the TVs and that we are very unlikely to see such fast response times in our TVs any time soon (if ever)...

....

Last edited by stas3098; 02-18-2015 at 05:47 PM.
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post #11825 of 11833 Old 02-18-2015, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stas3098 View Post
Actual measurements:


http://www.intechopen.com/books/orga...-communication


They claim to have achieved the 20Mhz (20 000 000 hz) "refresh rate "with OLED and they say the 160Mhz "refresh rate" is quite possible, as well... they also found the "response time" for one of their compounds to be a little bit bigger than 0,2 ns or 0,0000002 ms (and this is not the limit by any means).




The highest cutoff frequency of PL intensity can reach about 160 MHz using one substituted phenyl/vinyl compound, DSB, of which the fluorescence lifetime was 0.2 ns.


P.S. Please note that I have taken the liberty of extrapolating "response times" and "refresh rates" for the TVs and that we are very unlikely to see such fast response times in our TVs any time soon (if ever)...
Having wasted time deciphering this document, none of it tells me what the response time of a full OLED pixel is in a TV application. These times include things like injection timing and further (as stated in section 4 of that paper) depend entirely upon the thickness of the OLED. Stas, this is for a unique and dedicated setup and we don't know how any of this relates to the thicknesses used in TVs. Even the drive voltages aren't going to be the same.

For the guys who got my previous pattern recognition puzzle: What's the next character in the sequence PUKIFDBH....?
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post #11826 of 11833 Old 02-18-2015, 09:17 PM
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The estimates are that OLED pricing would drop by 2/3 just by going to a gen 5 production system. There is still more room to go which is why no one has invested in such a plant yet but it's not like they still need to drop pricing by 90%. In the above link LG says they expect to drop pricing five fold.
I know this isn't for TV but since it's been discussed...

http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Comp...ery-affordable

LG Chem to make OLED panels very affordable
KENTARO OGURA, Nikkei staff writer
SEOUL -- LG Chem will fire up a new production line for OLED lighting panels in 2017 that could trigger the widespread adoption of this cutting-edge technology. The company will be able to lower prices by some 90%, so that a 10-by-10cm panel could sell for around $5.

The South Korean chemical company is investing 200 billion won ($184 million) to install a fifth-generation production line that can fabricate the OLEDs on glass substrates measuring 125-by-110cm.

That is roughly eight times as large as the substrates that LG Chem now uses on its existing line for OLED panels. The company already has developed techniques to improve yields, and it aggressively uses materials manufactured in-house, so with these larger substrates it will be able to boost productivity and significantly lower its costs.
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post #11827 of 11833 Old 02-18-2015, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
Having wasted time deciphering this document, none of it tells me what the response time of a full OLED pixel is in a TV application. These times include things like injection timing and further (as stated in section 4 of that paper) depend entirely upon the thickness of the OLED. Stas, this is for a unique and dedicated setup and we don't know how any of this relates to the thicknesses used in TVs. Even the drive voltages aren't going to be the same.
Well, I have a few good ideas on how it relates to TVs... 0,01ms and less.


The light emitting layer may have any thickness at which the light emitting layer is capable of emitting light under the influence of an electrical field, and will be different for different types of devices, where the minimum thickness in some smOLED devices is of the order of 10 nm, and the maximum in LEEC-devices in of the order of 500 nm.


http://www.google.com/patents/WO2006087658A1?cl=en


But what I want you all to understand is that OLED ,in theory, can have instantaneous response times (not necessarily in TVs) , almost unlimited lifetimes, thickness of just a few atoms and unbelievable efficiency and it can cover the whole of the visible spectrum and that, from my vintage point, lends almost infinite possibilities of application to OLEDs, such as the possibility of being the really fast mode of transferring data, the possibility of an "eternal" lighting source that doesn't emit a whole lot of heat (the precursor for interstellar travel and space farming), the possibility of substituting the sun (for underground and high-rise farming and subsequently underground housing if global warming proves to be true (or a similarly devastating disaster strikes) and devastates the earth (which I very much doubt it will ever happen, but I am very glad that we already have a technology that can enable our survival on a massive scale in case of such disaster)), but most importantly it can be made dirt-cheap (with printing and in fact I never believed that vapor-deposition technics can ever be used to make commercial OLEDs and apparently I was wrong)meaning everybody on earth will get to share in on the benefits of OLEDs. And there are many other possibilities that OLEDs halsen.


But it's worth noting that all these possibilities might never realize, just like "the swevens of the futurity" that people in the beginning of the 20th century held had envisioned the world without "transmission wires" my swevens of the futurity might "never" realize as well...

....

Last edited by stas3098; 02-19-2015 at 06:16 AM.
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post #11828 of 11833 Old 02-19-2015, 12:06 AM
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And now for your second regularly scheduled OLED lighting news article:
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/tech...-30254347.html
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post #11829 of 11833 Old 02-19-2015, 05:42 AM
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Here is rogo's 90% price cut target for OLED lighting. Still two years away which means that there is R&D work still to be done but this is the kind of pricing that starts to open up the market.

http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Comp...ery-affordable

Quote:
LG Chem to make OLED panels very affordable
KENTARO OGURA, Nikkei staff writer
SEOUL -- LG Chem will fire up a new production line for OLED lighting panels in 2017 that could trigger the widespread adoption of this cutting-edge technology. The company will be able to lower prices by some 90%, so that a 10-by-10cm panel could sell for around $5.

The South Korean chemical company is investing 200 billion won ($184 million) to install a fifth-generation production line that can fabricate the OLEDs on glass substrates measuring 125-by-110cm.
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post #11830 of 11833 Old 02-20-2015, 05:42 PM
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well, at least it's flat...

Note that this display is impulse driven.
more info here: http://www.planar.com/lp/transparent-oled/

edit: another video
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Last edited by ChaosCloud; 02-20-2015 at 06:09 PM.
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post #11831 of 11833 Old 02-24-2015, 04:02 AM
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post #11832 of 11833 Old Yesterday, 11:49 AM
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The Reason WRGB OLED TV Can Only Succeed

It has already been 2 years since OLED TV entered the market. LG Electronics and Samsung Electronics opened the market together with the release of 55 inch FHD OLED TV, but currently the market is developing around LG Elec. and some Chinese set companies.

Samsung Elec.’s OLED TV is using RGB OLED structure similar to the OLED panel applied to Galaxy series, and LTPS TFT. On the other hand, LG Elec. is using WRGB OLED, developed by LG Display, and oxide TFT.

However, Samsung Elec. stopped OLED TV production in the second half of 2013, and began to express negative opinions regarding OLED TV industry since CES2014. They determined OLED TV to be underdeveloped and required approximately 3 more years of further work. Also, as 8 mask of LTPS TFT or oxide TFT was used to develop OLED panel for TV, and therefore higher cost compared to LCD, Samsung and many other display experts continued to view it negatively. Various media was filled with unfavorable articles particularly regarding whether LG Display alone could maintain the OLED panel industry which required massive amount of investment.

Despite this, WRGB OLED received legitimate recognition with the start of 2015. First, with the 3 stack tandem OLED structure and HDR technology, they were able to provide sharper picture quality than LCD with the peak intensity of up to 800 nit. Second, 8 mask oxide TFT production processes were reduced to 4 mask production and lowered investment cost, which led to a more reasonable panel price.

The halved number of masks in the TFT production signifies that the number of processes can be reduced and increase the yield rate. It also means the amount of large scale investment essential to the TFT production can be reduced by 50%.

The rival display of LCD mostly uses 4 mask process of a-Si TFT. If the existing Gen8 line, with capacity of 200K, is changed to LTPS TFT or 8 mask oxide TFT process, the capacity is reduced to approx.. 90K and increases the TFT production cost by more than 200%. However, in 4 mask production, the LCD line can be altered to TFT exclusive line for OLED without any loss of capacity; this would place the TFT production cost on the same level as LCD. Of course, as the existing line can be used without additional factory construction will reduce the investment cost even further.

Therefore, if OLED is developed using 4 mask oxide TFT technology, theoretically the production cost falls to the level of LCD panel production price excluding BLU. As the large area OLED panel market is in early stages, the OLED evaporator and encapsulation equipment price is still high, but the equipment price will fall rapidly within 2-3 years and the investment cost is also expected to be reduced.

The display market research organizations are estimating the large OLED panel price to be at least $3,000, but according to the 2015 Annual Report by UBI Research, the LG Display’s 55 inch FHD OLED panel price is only expected to be around $900, and a 55 inch UHD OLED panel is to be around $1,400. UBI Research analyses that there is some difference from the actual sales price as LG Display’s M2 line production and yield rates are low, but if the full capacity of 26K is reached and the yield rises to above 80%, the current supply price can easily be met. Particularly if the large scale mass production system is established with the addition of M3 and M4 lines, it is predicted that OLED panel price will be reduced so that there will only be 1.1 times difference compared to LCD panel.

There are many experts who mistakenly predict that large area OLED panel, which has higher price tag compared to the continued investment cost as it is still in early stages, will fall behind LCD’s cheaper price strategy. However, much like how TFT-LCD overwhelmed the Braun-tube market, OLED TV will also be a household item within a few years.

2015 Annual Report by UBI Research writes that in 2016 when M2 line will be operating normally, approx. 1.7 million units of UHD OLED panel production will be possible, and predicts the investment of M3 line in 2016, with the shipment of approx. 2.7 million units of OLED TV in the market in 2017. This is a much weaker figure compared to the almost 200 million units of LCD panel market for TV, but within the new UHD TV market with 55 inch or higher it is expected to hold a large market share.
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post #11833 of 11833 Unread Today, 05:44 AM
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I havent been able to find an English source but there are multiple Korean newspapers reporting that Displaysearch estimates that total OLED sales were 77,000 in 2014 (42,400 in the 4th quarter). Western Europe makes up 30.7% of the total with Asia-Pacific at 18.4% and North America at 18%.

https://translate.google.com/transla...028&edit-text=
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