OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 407 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 06-15-2015, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mushroomkid View Post
So what you're saying is, stay away from OLED unless it is LTPS?
Nonsense.

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Originally Posted by stas3098 View Post
The problem is that there's no LTPS OLED TVs out there and there might not be any for a long time.
Likely never, to be precise.
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But for now there's going to be some OLEDs with darkened edges which shall come as part and parcel of them, but some lucky guys might win the OLED lottery and get one without such blemishes... in the TV world you never know until you open the box.
Sadly, this has been true for years.

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Originally Posted by ChaosCloud View Post
Are you saying that it's the backplane which is responsible for LG OLED non-uniformity? I was under the impression that it was caused by the imperfect deposition of the actual OLED material. Why do IGZO LCDs not have these uniformity problems?
The LCD has its own set of uniformity problems, but one important point is that the transistor doesn't modulate light output in an LCD. It modulates the "light valve". The output of the light itself is a function of the LEDs, which are often uniformly illuminated (except on locally-dimmed sets, including faux edge-lit dimmed sets, where they are modulated) but are never directly modulated by the backplane in the same way OLED emissive pixels are.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old 06-15-2015, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
Nonsense.



Likely never, to be precise.


Sadly, this has been true for years.



The LCD has its own set of uniformity problems, but one important point is that the transistor doesn't modulate light output in an LCD. It modulates the "light valve". The output of the light itself is a function of the LEDs, which are often uniformly illuminated (except on locally-dimmed sets, including faux edge-lit dimmed sets, where they are modulated) but are never directly modulated by the backplane in the same way OLED emissive pixels are.
More specifically, LCDs operate on the basis of voltage and the transistors involved act as voltage switches (which modulate the degree to which LCD lightvalves transmit or block light already generated by the LED backplane) and don't pass any significant current. The backplane transistors involved in OLED operate on the basis of current (which is required to generate emmissive light output) and in terms of the effect of threshold drift and transistor lifetime, that is a significant difference in operating conditions (current-mode generally being worse than voltage-mode).
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Old 06-24-2015, 08:29 AM
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LG interview at CE Week discussing HDR and other brands adopting LG's OLED. On the curve: "the novelty has worn out. We are commited to the flat form factor."
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Old 06-24-2015, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ynotgoal View Post
LG interview at CE Week discussing HDR and other brands adopting LG's OLED. On the curve: "the novelty has worn out. We are commited to the flat form factor."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhzmAH0BqM4
Not exactly what he said, though I was hoping it was.

"We are committed to the flat form factor as well as curved for those who prefer it." Almost exactly at 3 minutes in, though I can't make AVS behave with youtube marked position links, so you might have to FF directly to that point.


He didn't squash the curve concept entirely.

Cogito ergo sum makes a fundamental mistake because it ignores the implied existence of the narrator. Descartes might as well have said "A rose is red, therefore I am".
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Old 06-24-2015, 11:42 AM
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I think as long as lg makes both flat and curved tv of the same model as a choice for consumers we could all live with it. Samsung on the other hand has only made there best tv in curved form factor and I really hate that if you want their best you have to settle for the curve.
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Old 06-24-2015, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Jason626 View Post
I think as long as lg makes both flat and curved tv of the same model as a choice for consumers we could all live with it. Samsung on the other hand has only made there best tv in curved form factor and I really hate that if you want their best you have to settle for the curve.
Well if you're anti-curve (I am, though the scientist in me requires me to reconsider that position periodically) then Samsung is absolutely going to irk you the most. Their curve in comparison to LG's is extreme.

Cogito ergo sum makes a fundamental mistake because it ignores the implied existence of the narrator. Descartes might as well have said "A rose is red, therefore I am".
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Old 06-24-2015, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
Not exactly what he said, though I was hoping it was.

"We are committed to the flat form factor as well as curved for those who prefer it." Almost exactly at 3 minutes in, though I can't make AVS behave with youtube marked position links, so you might have to FF directly to that point.

https://youtu.be/GhzmAH0BqM4?t=3m1s

He didn't squash the curve concept entirely.
''the curve form factor was very popular in certain parts of the world'' ''the novelty has worn out'' Looks like the curve best days are over ..it was very popular..for two years...in certain parts of the world...
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Old 06-24-2015, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
''the curve form factor was very popular in certain parts of the world'' ''the novelty has worn out'' Looks like the curve best days are over ..it was very popular..for two years...in certain parts of the world...
I understand, but that's still not the rotting corpse I was hoping to find.

Cogito ergo sum makes a fundamental mistake because it ignores the implied existence of the narrator. Descartes might as well have said "A rose is red, therefore I am".
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Old 06-24-2015, 05:17 PM
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Yup, very popular when flat is not an option.
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Old 06-24-2015, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynotgoal View Post
LG interview at CE Week discussing HDR and other brands adopting LG's OLED. On the curve: "the novelty has worn out. We are commited to the flat form factor."
The thing all us critics said was dumb and a gimmick is... dumb and a gimmick.

Maybe these companies need to crowdsource marketing to people who have a clue.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old 06-24-2015, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post
Yup, very popular when flat is not an option.

I heard the most popular color for the 1914 Ford Model T was black.
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Old 07-05-2015, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post
Yup, very popular when flat is not an option.
Woe belimp the world where man should hook and look to curve a TV... a thing soothly unhuikable...

P.S Just a short FYI. "Hook" means to think (comes from Old English "hycgan"( if I am not mistaken and is cognate with the Scots word for "to think" huik (pronounced as "hook"). The phrase: "to hook and look (to)" means to first think of an idea (usually of some verily terrible idea) and then try to bring that idea to fruition... this phrase is still sometimes found in the northernmost thorps and wiks of England. The most famous incarnation of this set phrase is as follows: "I'm sorry, I neither hooked nor looked to hurt/insult(bore) you (with this tangent)".

....

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Old Yesterday, 12:20 AM
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Old Yesterday, 12:29 AM
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Um, that seems to suggest they're going to produce a lot of OLED for mobile devices. And speculates that since LG supplies Apple, one might conclude ...
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Old Yesterday, 01:04 PM
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Yep, wco, no implications for TV at all.

Too bad.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old Today, 07:22 AM
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LG plans to produce over 12 million UHD OLED TVs in 2020 - Researching Printing

Source: oled-info.com
Quote:
TNews posted the following chart, showing what seems to be LG Display's own forecasts for UHD (4K) OLED TV production from 2014 to 2020. These are just 4K OLED TVs - LGD still produces Full-HD OLEDs as well (for example in 2015, LGD plans to produce 86,000 FHD TVs, bringing the total number of OLED TV produced to 600,000).


According to the OLED Association LG indeed managed to increase production yields of 4K OLEDs. The company is now conducting extensive R&D in inkjet printing of OLEDs as this seems to be a promising route towards greater material efficiency and faster production

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Old Today, 09:26 AM
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It's hard to glean much from the report, but let's try!

1) If those are supposed to be actual forecasts, someone appears to have just plugged numbers into Excel to get a nice smooth curve. That's not an especially serious forecast otherwise. e.g. I don't believe it includes fab dates, capacities, ramp up, etc.

2) If those are supposed to be actual forecasts, it could be quite a while before price parity with high-end LCD (n.b. not "flagship" LCD, those don't sell in anything resembling even the 2017 forecasts and for 2016, LG would like need >100% market share in the "flagship" category). Price declines are driven by volume. 2015 is more than half done and clearly LG has nowhere near 500,000 4K sets being produced this year. I don't really understand why anyone is buying the 1080p models, but I can't imagine they are driving much volume anyway.

3) If LG is researching printing as a serious thing, it has no actual plans to do the 2019/2020 production (or really the 2018) at this point. This doesn't mean they won't, it just means there isn't a real roadmap as I reference in (1). That would include dates for multiple fabs/production lines, cap ex forecasts, ramp up times, price reductions, etc. I'm not saying no one at LG has done this, just that no one at LG has committed to following through on it.

4) OLED is not only not through the Valley of Death, it's not clear it has even entered it yet. There will come a point -- and that point looks like 2017/8 on the forecast -- where LG has to push through two more "doublings" of production into a market that can only possibly bear it at a fraction of then current prices. 5 million TVs, for example, is on the order of 100% of today's $3000+ TV market. It could easily be >100%.

By 2017, LG will be asking the market to absorb a lot of OLED TVs that it is effectively the only seller of. Everyone else will be fairly insistent that they offer no/minimal advantages. They will not be entirely wrong. There is no way for LG to clear the market without much, much lower pricing than they offer today.

5) If these forecasts are to met -- at all -- pricing action that has begun gets very serious in 2 years. At that point, OLED supporters better buy a lot of TVs. 2020 is depending on you. If the 2017 results disappoint, this whole thing may get stuck in the valley.
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There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old Today, 02:04 PM
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I don't really understand why anyone is buying the 1080p models, but I can't imagine they are driving much volume anyway.
.
You are probably right they aren't driving much volume, but I'd argue for someone who wants high end on a budget it's great that 1080P OLEDs are still being sold. At recent sale prices it's arguably the best deal out there if you want a quality TV, seeing as all the good Plasmas are no longer being sold and used prices shot up as well. The benefits of 4K are questionable at 55", and I say this as someone who has been quick to adopt 4K on the PC side. Close up for monitors 4K makes a lot of sense, but you really need a massive TV to truly take advantage of 4K. I wouldn't get anything less than a 75" for 4K, personally. Most people would be better off getting an 1080P OLED versus a 4K LCD if they sit 8-10ft away from a 55"

Marketing has led a lot of people (well, less informed buyers) to think buying anything less than a 4K set is pointless though, so I'd imagine LG may be struggling to move the EC9300 and that's why we've seen deep discounts on it.
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Old Today, 04:13 PM
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Very good points x3sphere.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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