OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 418 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12511 of 13975 Old 10-14-2015, 10:43 AM
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Sorry, but I'm confused. I want the 65EF9500, but does it have the LG Direct-TV Ready capability? (Don't really want yellow bands)
or should I consider this Hisense 65 with ULED ?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...tronics&sr=1-1
Hopefully I am allowed to ask this here.
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post #12512 of 13975 Old 10-14-2015, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Steinkuller View Post
Sorry, but I'm confused. I want the 65EF9500, but does it have the LG Direct-TV Ready capability? (Don't really want yellow bands)
or should I consider this Hisense 65 with ULED ?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...tronics&sr=1-1
Hopefully I am allowed to ask this here.
Wrong place. Post in the EF9500 Owner's Thread, the Hisense thread in the LCD Forum, or start a new thread yourself (either in Flat Panels General or LCD Forum).

This thread is for OLED Technology Advancements (as the title says ).
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post #12513 of 13975 Old 10-14-2015, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post
Which should have us asking how long does their current tech last?
Uhhh, I interpret the statement as saying that the current OLEDs last 20 years when used 8 hours a day.
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post #12514 of 13975 Old 10-14-2015, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Wrong place. Post in the EF9500 Owner's Thread, the Hisense thread in the LCD Forum, or start a new thread yourself (either in Flat Panels General or LCD Forum).

This thread is for OLED Technology Advancements (as the title says ).
Yeah, but with the frequent off ramps to light bulbs, cars, etc., etc., etc....

Thought #EAA: I wonder how many people know that no one ever says "What we've got here is a failure to communicate." in the movie "Cool Hand Luke" (1967).
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post #12515 of 13975 Old 10-14-2015, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
Uhhh, I interpret the statement as saying that the current OLEDs last 20 years when used 8 hours a day.
Yeah, that's how I interpreted it as well. But then that is about 60,000 hours which is surprisingly long. And what is meant by "last"? Until half brightness? And what does the brightness/aging curve look like? Roughly linear? Steep decline and then leveling out (yikes)? Fairly steady then falls off a table?

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post #12516 of 13975 Old 10-14-2015, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by sooke View Post
Yeah, that's how I interpreted it as well. But then that is about 60,000 hours which is surprisingly long. And what is meant by "last"? Until half brightness? And what does the brightness/aging curve look like? Roughly linear? Steep decline and then leveling out (yikes)? Fairly steady then falls off a table?
We'll know in 20 years.
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Thought #EAA: I wonder how many people know that no one ever says "What we've got here is a failure to communicate." in the movie "Cool Hand Luke" (1967).
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post #12517 of 13975 Old 10-14-2015, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
Uhhh, I interpret the statement as saying that the current OLEDs last 20 years when used 8 hours a day.
In HDR mode too? I wonder what their use type balance is for that claim. For instance, "If the contrast is set lower than ...".

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post #12518 of 13975 Old 10-15-2015, 06:49 AM
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I was under the impression that they would last four/five years.
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post #12519 of 13975 Old 10-15-2015, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post
I wonder how many of the people who went for the top-of-the-line Pioneer plasmas will decide that this is a good time to jump.--Darin

I'm one of them, but it would have to be a bigger screen (by a decent margin) than my current PRO-151FD (60") and I want it to be capable of 3D.


Talking about 3D, I'm surprised the new Ultra HD Blu-ray does not support 3D at least for the Ultra HD part of it. Since 3D movies are still being mad and possibly in the future will be created in 4K , it seems like 3-D Ultra HD Blu-ray would have to be adopted later rather than sooner. At leat that's my thinking about it.

Movies must be OAR, sports and movies must also have 5.1 audio, No EE or NO SALE!

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post #12520 of 13975 Old 10-15-2015, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Thebarnman View Post
I'm one of them, but it would have to be a bigger screen (by a decent margin) than my current PRO-151FD (60") and I want it to be capable of 3D.


Talking about 3D, I'm surprised the new Ultra HD Blu-ray does not support 3D at least for the Ultra HD part of it. Since 3D movies are still being mad and possibly in the future will be created in 4K , it seems like 3-D Ultra HD Blu-ray would have to be adopted later rather than sooner. At leat that's my thinking about it.
Lack of 3-d is a major sticking point for me.
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post #12521 of 13975 Old 10-15-2015, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
Uhhh, I interpret the statement as saying that the current OLEDs last 20 years when used 8 hours a day.
That's too long already. I need my TV to die sooner
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post #12522 of 13975 Old 10-16-2015, 05:03 AM
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M 14 year old 433 CMX Pioneer plasma sits over my fireplace and I just cant kill it.Same amazing PQ as when i bought it but the damn thing is so old it doesnt even have a tuner or speakers.

Matt
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post #12523 of 13975 Old 10-16-2015, 11:10 PM
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our nec 50xr6a also comes with no tuner or speakers but that has always suited us fine,still as good as a picture from day 1.wish nec still made monitors.down the road will in all likely buy a oled.
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post #12524 of 13975 Old 10-17-2015, 02:22 PM
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our nec 50xr6a also comes with no tuner or speakers but that has always suited us fine,still as good as a picture from day 1.wish nec still made monitors.down the road will in all likely buy a oled.

I've had a Pioneer plasma since 2006, 60". My EC9300 has taken its place, and while the Pioneer has found a great use as the kids new gaming TV, the OLED is several orders of magnitude better. It is unbelievable.
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post #12525 of 13975 Old 10-20-2015, 09:11 AM
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Mirage Vision, a US-based outdoor television outfitters announced the world's first outdoor OLED TV, which is a weather-proof LG 65" 4K curved OLED TV

http://www.oled-info.com/mirage-visi...65-4k-oled-tvs


Finally some good news for homeless videophiles with deep pockets, and also for thieves who do not like to have to break in to homes.
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post #12526 of 13975 Old 10-22-2015, 04:52 PM
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...it doesnt even have a tuner or speakers.
If only someone would make an OLED set like that. Leave out all the useless crap, plug in your AVR/UHD blu ray player/streaming box and off 'ya go.
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post #12527 of 13975 Old 10-22-2015, 10:35 PM
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It's PHOLED BLUE(S) or N-heterocyclic carbene iridium-III complex
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post #12528 of 13975 Old 10-22-2015, 10:40 PM
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It's PHOLED BLUE(S) or N-heterocyclic carbene iridium-III complex
"Unfortunately, this new PHOLED has a brief operational lifetime, just like many other blue PHOLEDs, Lee says. Future research will focus on stabilizing the molecule at the heart of this new PHOLED to create a longer-lasting version of the device."
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post #12529 of 13975 Old 10-22-2015, 10:40 PM
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If only someone would make an OLED set like that. Leave out all the useless crap, plug in your AVR/UHD blu ray player/streaming box and off 'ya go.
I believe the first LG was only a display
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post #12530 of 13975 Old 10-22-2015, 11:47 PM
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Hard not to get excited about a new blue PHOLED that (a) has no lifetime (b) uses expensive iridium!

Oh, wait....

There's a saying about "everything in moderation". If only it was applied to well, you know...
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post #12531 of 13975 Old 10-22-2015, 11:50 PM
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I have to reread the thread I'm curious what's the lifespan on current or future oled
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post #12532 of 13975 Old 10-23-2015, 06:31 AM
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I have to reread the thread I'm curious what's the lifespan on current or future oled
We started the year with 30.000 hours..
Has the lifetime problem been resolved?
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post #12533 of 13975 Old 10-23-2015, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by gus738 View Post
I believe the first LG was only a display
Do you mean the first widely released LG OLED? That was the 55EA9800, and it had speakers.


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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
Hard not to get excited about a new blue PHOLED that (a) has no lifetime (b) uses expensive iridium!
Besides, is power really all that huge a deal any longer? Certainly not for OLED TVs unless they're the jumbotrons.

BTW, there were some rumblings here and there in this thread previously about iridium prices and that it might be running out (it's a non-renewable resource afterall). I'm really not sure, but perhaps part of this was fueled by the absurd price bump experienced a few years ago?

It's $520usd per troy ounce right now (22-Oct-2015), but look at 2011-2013 !


Thought #EAA: I wonder how many people know that no one ever says "What we've got here is a failure to communicate." in the movie "Cool Hand Luke" (1967).
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post #12534 of 13975 Old 10-23-2015, 07:40 AM
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LG Display adjusted their OLED TV expectations from mostly 55" TVs to now 40% of the sets will be 65" or 77" models. This makes sense given the higher demand for the 65" and it sounds like we will actually see 77" models at better pricing next year. Of course, it means a lower total volume of sets produced in order to keep the area the same... more than 1 million mixture of 55", 65" and 77" sets next year from 1.5 million 55" previously. They also said 55" yields are now at the same level as LCD and expect 65" and 77" to reach that level next year. Edit: LG Display also said they would be adding new customers next year. Sharp has been mentioned for the first time.

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Originally Posted by greenland View Post
Mirage Vision, a US-based outdoor television outfitters announced the world's first outdoor OLED TV, which is a weather-proof LG 65" 4K curved OLED TV

http://www.oled-info.com/mirage-visi...65-4k-oled-tvs

Finally some good news for homeless videophiles with deep pockets, and also for thieves who do not like to have to break in to homes.
While this is clearly a market niche if you've been to any restaurants or sports bars with outside seating there is a market.

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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
Hard not to get excited about a new blue PHOLED that (a) has no lifetime (b) uses expensive iridium!

Oh, wait....
a) That particular material has a short lifetime because it was run 10 times brighter than would be used in TVs. They have an architecture using this very efficient material in a wrgb layout which produces a total lifetime of 50,000 hours. It remains to be seen when it will be adopted for use in TVs.
b) All red and green materials today use iridium
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post #12535 of 13975 Old 10-23-2015, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
Besides, is power really all that huge a deal any longer? Certainly not for OLED TVs unless they're the jumbotrons.
Power does matter. 250 million TVs a year that are run for 2,000 hours on average that use 10 watts less apiece matters. But... only if the cost to get lower power is reasonable.
Quote:
BTW, there were some rumblings here and there in this thread previously about iridium prices and that it might be running out (it's a non-renewable resource afterall). I'm really not sure, but perhaps part of this was fueled by the absurd price bump experienced a few years ago?
All platinum group metals experience this periodically because all are rare and commodities swing wildly. I'm not saying we shouldn't use things like iridium, it's hard tho to get excited about things that require it. The whole move now in solar panels, for example, is to find even more cheap, common materials to replace the few pricey things still being used.

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Originally Posted by ynotgoal View Post
LG Display adjusted their OLED TV expectations from mostly 55" TVs to now 40% of the sets will be 65" or 77" models. This makes sense given the higher demand for the 65" and it sounds like we will actually see 77" models at better pricing next year. Of course, it means a lower total volume of sets produced in order to keep the area the same... more than 1 million mixture of 55", 65" and 77" sets next year from 1.5 million 55" previously. They also said 55" yields are now at the same level as LCD and expect 65" and 77" to reach that level next year. Edit: LG Display also said they would be adding new customers next year. Sharp has been mentioned for the first time.
That sounds like great news, tbh. I think the bet of "really expensive 55 inch" TVs was always far bigger than that segment is. In other words, they wanted to sell 100+% of the $1500 55-inch segment way too soon -- and can't yet sell a $1000 55-inch OLED.

So, yes, I'd trade volume for a better size mix for sure. Incidentally, what's the source of all this? (I'm not doubting you at all, just curious.)
Quote:
a) That particular material has a short lifetime because it was run 10 times brighter than would be used in TVs. They have an architecture using this very efficient material in a wrgb layout which produces a total lifetime of 50,000 hours. It remains to be seen when it will be adopted for use in TVs.
b) All red and green materials today use iridium
50,000 hours sounds good, especially if 30,000 hours (8 years at obscene usage) is only down to, say, 80% max brightness.

See my point above about iridium. For decades now, we've tried to reduce platinum use in catalytic converters. The race is always "less of rare, expensive stuff". The new Chevy Volt uses far less "rare earths" (which actually aren't rare like platinum at all, just not as common as iron, aluminum, tin, etc.) than the previous one for cost reasons. This isn't a bunch of "green nonsense" either. It's about making things more affordable and mass produceable.

OLED material has a long way to go before it meets that standard.

There's a saying about "everything in moderation". If only it was applied to well, you know...
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post #12536 of 13975 Old 10-23-2015, 02:45 PM
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All platinum group metals experience this periodically because all are rare and commodities swing wildly. I'm not saying we shouldn't use things like iridium, it's hard tho to get excited about things that require it.
This isn't a bunch of "green nonsense" either. It's about making things more affordable and mass produceable.
I'm all for sustainability and it's true that iridium is one of the rarest metals on Earth. I'm not all that familiar with it but my understanding is the 2010-13 price rise had to do with its use in sapphire LED backlights. In an OLED, iridium is a very small percentage of the OLED material stack. I can't find the figures but the amount used is small especially compared to its use in other electronics. It is the most expensive part of the OLED though and an important point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post
Incidentally, what's the source of all this? (I'm not doubting you at all, just curious.)
You can find most of that in the LG Display 3rd quarter conference call.

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50,000 hours sounds good, especially if 30,000 hours (8 years at obscene usage) is only down to, say, 80% max brightness.
I don't mean to oversell that. I think that 50,000 hours is to 50% brightness. And it requires some tweaks to the architecture. Just saying it's getting close to being commercially viable. Perhaps not yet today but soon.
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post #12537 of 13975 Old 10-23-2015, 07:43 PM
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I'm not sure that the cost of iridium will be a significant issue since a single gram of the emitter materials can be used to cover something like 5000 smartphone displays.

FWIW though, there is some progress being made on developing a single layer emitter (broad spectrum distribution) for white using platinum. It is really meant for lighting but success would probably eventually translate to WOLED's as well.

https://asunow.asu.edu/20151009-jian...mitting-diodes

http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2..._li_042214.pdf
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post #12538 of 13975 Old 10-23-2015, 07:50 PM
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Here is a transcript of the recent LG Display conference call.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/3599...pt?part=single

- They state that 55" OLED's have matched LCD's. They wouldnt give a cash cost comparison between the two technologies but indicated that they might next year when the fab is fully ramped.

- They havent finalized plans for their next gen fab yet but it sounds like that will happen by the next earnings call in January.

- They sold ~25% of their 400 to 500k target in the third quarter and expect somewhere around 50% in the 4th quarter.

More at the link.
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post #12539 of 13975 Old 10-24-2015, 02:05 AM
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Factory tour and interview with LG:


http://www.tek.no/artikler/5-ting-so...d-tv-er/193623


Key points:


1) Doubling of brightness for 2016 HDR.
2) 99% DCI/P3 Color Gamut for 2016.
3) Showing 4K prototype running at 120 fps. HDMI 2.0a can't do that. Displayport 1.3?
4) 1080p panels discontinued for 2016.
5) 3D support dropped for 2016.
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post #12540 of 13975 Old 10-24-2015, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
Factory tour and interview with LG:


http://www.tek.no/artikler/5-ting-so...d-tv-er/193623

Key points:

1) Doubling of brightness for 2016 HDR.
2) 99% DCI/P3 Color Gamut for 2016.
3) Showing 4K prototype running at 120 fps. HDMI 2.0a can't do that. Displayport 1.3?
4) 1080p panels discontinued for 2016.
5) 3D support dropped for 2016.
It sounds to me like they will tier their OLED lineup by offering better performing HDR and an expanded color gamut on the high-end.
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