OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 441 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!



Forum Jump: 
 904Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #13201 of 13230 Old 09-15-2016, 05:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,742
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2252 Post(s)
Liked: 2095
Quote:
Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
But the thing is any half-decent OLED monitor would theoretically be more than adaquate at both of these things because OLED tech itself is inherently good at things things. In other words, it may very well take more work to make an OLED display that is good at only one of these things rather than both.

To clarify, it must be noted that "good motion" in the realm of PC means "high refresh rates and fast pixel response time with minimal blur" which differs from TVs where "good motion" means "high motion resolution with low-framerate content without making it look like a soap opera nor a juddery mess".
Good motion in both realms means low persistence. The pixel response is part of that equation, but the bottom line is to minimize 1. The discomfort the eye feels from step-hold-step-hold-step-hold motion (which is accomplished by lowering persistence), and 2. The smear against the retina during eye tracking.

You gain a less jumpy more accurate travel with higher refresh rates, and yes, inherently along with higher refresh rates comes lower persistence, but the eye strain/discomfort/motion-blur/whatever-term has persistence as the bottom line.

---------Thought #AUY----------
Data is not Information
Information is not Knowledge
Knowledge is not Wisdom
tgm1024 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #13202 of 13230 Old 09-15-2016, 06:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
irkuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: cyberspace
Posts: 3,648
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 148 Post(s)
Liked: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post
Everybody wants better screen quality (accurate is another story). The question is how much they will pay. The premiums for a better display are much smaller in smartphones and laptops than in televisions. That is partially due to yields at smaller sizes but mostly because the panel makes up a smaller part of the overall price. Consumers have shown a willingness to pay a small premium for high quality displays even on sub-$200 smartphones. That is why you are seeing mass adoption of OLED's by Chinese vendors. The only issue is that Samsung doesnt have enough capacity to supply all of the current demand. There will be very few LCD's in >$300 handsets in a few years.
I think the same scenario will be true for laptops. The current $200 premium works on the $1500 models on which OLED's are offered but the premium will have to come down when attempting to sell into the sub-$1000 and ultimately the sub-$500 markets. No reason that cant happen considering Samsung has been offering 10" tablets with OLED's for a reasonable price for a few years.
I agree, people are willing to pay small premium. The problem is OLED is not at the point of small premium, maybe it will reach there but with LCD prices always adjusting down it won't be easy. Chinese vendors are expanding the use of OLEDs but this is under their price logic in which they somehow manage to reduce the cost to unbelievable levels.
irkuck is offline  
post #13203 of 13230 Old 09-15-2016, 09:43 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 13,599
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2899 Post(s)
Liked: 2076
Quote:
Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
And that's without factoring people that simply appreciate a bump in visual quality (read: the people that buy IPS because "it's supposedly better").
Well, as a general computer monitor IPS is better than TN or VA panels. If someone made VA computer monitors using all the same tech that's used in the very best VA TV panels that might not be the case, but they don't.

An OLED computer monitor seems like an interesting prospect, but I wonder about the true practicality of it outside of a few specialized applications.
Stereodude is offline  
post #13204 of 13230 Old 09-15-2016, 11:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
NintendoManiac64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 1,506
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 687 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
Good motion in both realms means low persistence. The pixel response is part of that equation, but the bottom line is to minimize 1. The discomfort the eye feels from step-hold-step-hold-step-hold motion (which is accomplished by lowering persistence), and 2. The smear against the retina during eye tracking.

You gain a less jumpy more accurate travel with higher refresh rates, and yes, inherently along with higher refresh rates comes lower persistence, but the eye strain/discomfort/motion-blur/whatever-term has persistence as the bottom line.
Well because we're talking about monitors, the absolute peak brightness would be nowhere near as important as would be on TVs, and this peak brightness is literally the only issue OLED has with any sort of black-frame insertion since pixel response is already best-in-class.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
An OLED computer monitor seems like an interesting prospect, but I wonder about the true practicality of it outside of a few specialized applications.
You make it sound like there are things that make LCD generally better for PC monitors, which I don't understand. Could you elaborate?
NintendoManiac64 is offline  
post #13205 of 13230 Old 09-15-2016, 01:43 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 13,599
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2899 Post(s)
Liked: 2076
Quote:
Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
You make it sound like there are things that make LCD generally better for PC monitors, which I don't understand. Could you elaborate?
With few exceptions the 1000:1 contrast ratio of a typical IPS type computer LCD monitor is sufficient. Things like e-mail, playing games, browsing the web, etc. Most people aren't computing in the dark. There's quite a bit of ambient light. So the really high contrast difference is not really apparent. Second, OLEDs do burn in. Differential aging is real. There are a lot of very static UI elements on the typical computer monitor.

So maybe in some photo editing, or video editing use cases an OLED monitor would have good tangible benefits, but in most computer use an OLED monitor offers no tangible benefit, but will cost more, and require more careful use. Hence my comment.
Stereodude is offline  
post #13206 of 13230 Old 09-15-2016, 02:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
NintendoManiac64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 1,506
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 687 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
With few exceptions the 1000:1 contrast ratio of a typical IPS type computer LCD monitor is sufficient. Things like e-mail, playing games, browsing the web, etc.
Uhh, games are one of the things that take best advantage of high static contrast ratios, especially since games allow the player to move the camera into locations dark enough that no movie director would ever dare try to film them (easy example is an unlit cave in Minecraft, or arguably Nether fortresses even when lit up).

Not only that, but surely anyone buying a 144Hz monitor would be all over OLED's crazy-fast pixel response time, especially if it also had black-frame insertion.

Also more and more nowadays "browsing the web" involves photos and videos which also take good advantage of high static contrast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
There's quite a bit of ambient light.
In my experience most people don't put computer monitors directly near a bright ambient light source for the exact same reason they don't for TVs - reflections. And since using a PC involves a lot of reading, minimizing reflections is even more critical.

Besides, even a home environment with lights on is still darker than both a store environment and natural daylight.

Lastly, considering the abundance of largely white windows and webpages that you're viewing only a couple feet from your eyes, your typical monitor has brightness at levels that are more like half of what you see used for TVs. In other words, torch mode doesn't really hold any appeal to even the average Joe when it's akin to staring at a large white light in close proximity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
OLEDs do burn in.
At least on LG's WOLED, burn-in isn't really any more of an issue than it was on later generation post-y2k CRTs (reference: I still use them). Here's an example of a 20-hour burn-in torture test on the 9100 which several generations old now (especially since it used the same panel as the 9300):
Reviewed.com's OLED burn-in article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Differential aging is real.
Not an issue on WOLED - it's one of the main reason LG is even using it.

Last edited by NintendoManiac64; 09-15-2016 at 02:27 PM.
NintendoManiac64 is offline  
post #13207 of 13230 Old 09-15-2016, 02:46 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 13,599
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2899 Post(s)
Liked: 2076
I don't agree with you, but either way I won't be holding my breath for OLED computer monitors, WOLED or not.
Stereodude is offline  
post #13208 of 13230 Old 09-15-2016, 03:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
NintendoManiac64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 1,506
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 687 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
I don't agree with you, but either way I won't be holding my breath for OLED computer monitors, WOLED or not.
Well we'll be seeing OLED regardless since it'll be needed for HDR-capable displays since local-dimming led backlights is impractical (see: literally no local-dimming display exists in monitors, laptops, tablets, nor smartphones; also the fact that AMD used OLED to demonstrate HDR from their GPUs).

Besides, OLED-equipped laptops already exist (though they use Samsung OLED displays) and, as mentioned, Dell has already shown off a crazy-expensive OLED monitor (again, using a Samsung panel).

To me there's no debate on whether or not OLED will come to PCs, I just wanted to know when an LG WOLED would. Seeing how they're demonstrating native 120fps on a future UHDTV, it's not that out of the question that they would make a high-end monitor...

Last edited by NintendoManiac64; 09-15-2016 at 04:02 PM.
NintendoManiac64 is offline  
post #13209 of 13230 Old 09-16-2016, 12:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Wizziwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 2,060
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 875 Post(s)
Liked: 600
You have to realize that most computer monitors are sold for work/office/industrial use - not gaming or watching movies. With any sort of typical office lighting (the kind needed so people don't trip over each other and sue), there is virtually zero advantage to an OLED monitor. No matter the display technology, you're lucky to squeeze out even 200:1 contrast out of the display. Response time also doesn't matter for most office application. Most office tasks require displaying documents with large areas of white/bright colors. LCD is more power efficient for that kind of usage and thus cheaper to run.

The point is that OLED for gamers sitting in the dark is a niche market in the world of computer monitors. That niche is too small for an OLED panel manufacturer to bother with. The office market is large enough but they can't offer any clear advantages and would need to compete with cheap $100 23" IPS monitors.

Without raw panels available, the monitor guys who target gamers (Asus, Viewsonic, etc.) can't build the monitor you're looking for. The Dell OLED will likely never ship, like most vaporware shown at trade shows. In any case, it was a display for vertical markets where cost is not a factor, similar to the Sony broadcast OLEDs.

If tablet OLED displays keep getting bigger, maybe someday those will be large enough to build cheap computer monitors out of. Currently they seem to be stuck <= 13".
Wizziwig is online now  
post #13210 of 13230 Old 09-16-2016, 11:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
NintendoManiac64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 1,506
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 687 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
The point is that OLED for gamers sitting in the dark is a niche market in the world of computer monitors. That niche is too small for an OLED panel manufacturer to bother with. The office market is large enough but they can't offer any clear advantages and would need to compete with cheap $100 23" IPS monitors.
And I cannot help but feel that you greatly underestimate the higher-end market of PC gaming - I mean, those 144Hz monitors and $400+ consumer GPUs (read: not Quadro/Tesla or FirePro/RadeonPro) aren't selling themselves you know.

Just an FYI, you probably don't want to be saying such things on certain parts of the internet for the safety of your well being - /r/Hardware and /r/PcMasterRace particularly come to mind as well as dedicated forums like Overclockers.co.uk and Overclock.net.


And again, don't forget about digital artists or other media content creators - not all of them can spend several thousands of dollars on a Sony PVM OLED pro monitor. Then there's HDR which is pretty much impossible on currently-available monitors anyway, and there's no way HDR will stay limited to TVs when not only the majority of content creation happens on PCs but DiplayPort 1.4 and both Geforce 1000 and Radeon 400 GPUs include support for HDR metadata.

Last edited by NintendoManiac64; 09-16-2016 at 12:10 PM.
NintendoManiac64 is offline  
post #13211 of 13230 Old 09-16-2016, 01:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Wizziwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 2,060
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 875 Post(s)
Liked: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
And I cannot help but feel that you greatly underestimate the higher-end market of PC gaming - I mean, those 144Hz monitors and $400+ consumer GPUs (read: not Quadro/Tesla or FirePro/RadeonPro) aren't selling themselves you know.
I'm not arguing against the size of the PC gamer market - I actually program video games for a living on both PC and consoles.

What I'm saying is that not enough of this market would buy a theoretical expensive OLED monitor to make panel manufacturing worthwhile. Especially given the cheap prices of LCD alternatives. Those 144Hz monitors you mention are based on the regular office style panels with some custom electronics to drive them at higher rates. No large panel manufacturer is making raw panels (as opposed to monitors) just for gamers. It's no different than what's happening with VR at the moment. Those guys are recycling phone OLED displays with some modifications. Nobody is making VR specific panels.

GPU market has no relevance. Nvidia does not have their own fab and rents manufacturing capacity from others serving larger markets. LG and Samsung are not going to rent their OLED panel plants so someone can build a gamer specific monitor using their fab. Both will have a hard enough time meeting demand for the mobile devices.

As I mentioned there is some slow OLED growth happening from the tablet/laptop side which might eventually reach sizes suitable for monitors. Once those raw panels are made for larger markets, someone may use them to build gamer monitors.

Don't get me wrong, I would probably buy an OLED monitor too. Until that day, you'll need to make due with 55" OLED TVs.

Incidentally, I know you said you prefer WOLED over Samsung's RGB solution. WOLED is much worse for displaying small text because of the poor fill factor and sub-pixel design. It's a common complaint among those using LG OLEDs as non-gaming computer monitors.
Wizziwig is online now  
post #13212 of 13230 Old 09-16-2016, 02:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
NintendoManiac64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 1,506
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 687 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
Those 144Hz monitors you mention are based on the regular office style panels with some custom electronics to drive them at higher rates. No large panel manufacturer is making raw panels (as opposed to monitors) just for gamers. It's no different than what's happening with VR at the moment. Those guys are recycling phone OLED displays with some modifications. Nobody is making VR specific panels.
My idea was actually to do something similar; that's why I keep mentioning professional artists and other content creators - these are people that will pay extra for great image quality, especially if you factor in HDR.

The difference though is that, because OLED is already inherently good at color and pixel-response, even a low-binned panel could very well make a great gaming display and still be better than any LCD or CRT monitor in existence.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
Incidentally, I know you said you prefer WOLED over Samsung's RGB solution. WOLED is much worse for displaying small text because of the poor fill factor and sub-pixel design. It's a common complaint among those using LG OLEDs as non-gaming computer monitors.
Wouldn't this be largely solved if LG simply alined the white subpixel horizontally above/below the red/green/blue subpixels? Ideally you could even sp ilthe white subpixel into 3 parts to correspond with each red/green/blue subpixel (though that would probably be more expensive to implement).

Example that I just rigged up in MS Paint:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	alternative WOLED.png
Views:	25
Size:	457 Bytes
ID:	1664849   Click image for larger version

Name:	split white subpixel WOLED.png
Views:	25
Size:	463 Bytes
ID:	1664857  
ChaosCloud likes this.

Last edited by NintendoManiac64; 09-16-2016 at 02:21 PM.
NintendoManiac64 is offline  
post #13213 of 13230 Old 09-16-2016, 02:24 PM
Advanced Member
 
dnoonie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Seattle, WA area
Posts: 803
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked: 189
Anyone know any more details...."LG’s flagship 77-inch OLED was unveiled for delivery next month (October)." $20,000MSRP.

Read more at http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...xIivdOhyhXU.99

Cheers,
dnoonie is online now  
post #13214 of 13230 Old 09-17-2016, 06:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,742
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2252 Post(s)
Liked: 2095
Quote:
Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
Well because we're talking about monitors, the absolute peak brightness would be nowhere near as important as would be on TVs, and this peak brightness is literally the only issue OLED has with any sort of black-frame insertion since pixel response is already best-in-class.
I wasn't talking about peak brightness at all, I was addressing the issue of motion. And does there exist any pulse style motion option (BFI is a misused term) for the OLEDs yet? Not that I can see. It's still sample-and-hold with persistence still being the limiting factor, not response (GtG). Did I miss a tech paper someplace?

However, if what you're doing is tying together peak brightness with pulse style motion enhancement (lightboost-ish, Sony's motion flow impulse, etc.) then I totally agree because any pulse mechanism dramatically lowers light output.

Second "however":

1. I'm betting OLED will soon solve all of these problems.
2. I agree with those that the bottom line is what people perceive: And if they're perceiving wonderful motion, then that's that.

---------Thought #AUY----------
Data is not Information
Information is not Knowledge
Knowledge is not Wisdom
tgm1024 is offline  
post #13215 of 13230 Old 09-17-2016, 10:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
NintendoManiac64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 1,506
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 687 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
And does there exist any pulse style motion option (BFI is a misused term) for the OLEDs yet? Not that I can see. It's still sample-and-hold with persistence still being the limiting factor, not response (GtG). Did I miss a tech paper someplace?
Yes, you did miss it. Now LG hasn't done it on their WOLED architecture, but it's been done on Samsung's RGB OLED in at least three cases now:

1. Samsung's only OLED TV
2. Oculus Rift
3. HTC Vive
NintendoManiac64 is offline  
post #13216 of 13230 Old 09-22-2016, 09:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nathanddrews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 289 Post(s)
Liked: 219
I love everything about this thread.

Is Panasonic reusing LG panels for their new line of OLED TVs?

Has LG announced or shown anything about their 2017 lineup yet?
nathanddrews is offline  
post #13217 of 13230 Old 09-22-2016, 09:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
slacker711's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,016
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 375 Post(s)
Liked: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post
I love everything about this thread.

Is Panasonic reusing LG panels for their new line of OLED TVs?

Has LG announced or shown anything about their 2017 lineup yet?
All of the OLED TV's on the market are using LG Display's panels.

LG hasnt said anything definitive about 2017 but they have hinted that they will be going with a new OLED stack that uses red, green, and blue layers to make white light rather than yellow/blue.
slacker711 is offline  
post #13218 of 13230 Old 09-22-2016, 09:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nathanddrews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 289 Post(s)
Liked: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post
All of the OLED TV's on the market are using LG Display's panels.
I figured as much. Hopefully Panasonic will be more aggressive than LG about refresh rates, sample/hold timings, etc. I'd like to see SoC improvements to reduce input lag and make these displays more viable for uses beyond just video content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post
LG hasnt said anything definitive about 2017 but they have hinted that they will be going with a new OLED stack that uses red, green, and blue layers to make white light rather than yellow/blue.
Very interesting, I hope that approach pans out.
nathanddrews is offline  
post #13219 of 13230 Old 09-22-2016, 10:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
NintendoManiac64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 1,506
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 687 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post
Hopefully Panasonic will be more aggressive than LG about refresh rates
Actually LG looks to be getting on top of that as well:
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1473185035
NintendoManiac64 is offline  
post #13220 of 13230 Old Yesterday, 05:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nathanddrews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,396
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 289 Post(s)
Liked: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
Actually LG looks to be getting on top of that as well:
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1473185035
Great, thanks! I missed that even though I was trying to read all the IFA news.

Quote:
In the photos, you can see that the input signal is 2560x1440 at 100fps with 20Mb/s bitrate. LG demonstrated several resolutions up to 4K at 100fps with 25 Mb/s bitrate.
I think the article is incorrect. 20Mb/s indicates a video stream (probably off a thumb drive), not technically an input signal from a PC like we would think of, which would be several Gb/s. I'd love to see 4K120 and 1080p240 as possible native input resolutions... but I don't think HDMI 2.0 is up to the task. Unless LG is planning to offer DP1.4 input, I don't think we'll see a change in actual input. They could at least copy Sony and offer 4K60 and 1080p120 input as that would be a great improvement. I want to believe, but I've got to see proof before LG gets more of my money.
nathanddrews is offline  
post #13221 of 13230 Old Yesterday, 06:35 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 198
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 127 Post(s)
Liked: 49
OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Second, OLEDs do burn in. Differential aging is real. There are a lot of very static UI elements on the typical computer monitor.

I use a 2016 LG OLED as my computer monitor and I can assure you that burn-in isn't something I notice often. Sometimes I have to step out of the house and I stop at the door, turn around, look at the PC running on the OLED, and think, "should I turn it off?" And then I think, "whatever", and I leave the house. Any burn-in is like an allergy, it comes, the TV sneezes it out, and we move on together.

Also, I didn't read back through this thread, but I'm sure you have seen this:

https://pcmonitors.info/dell/dell-up...-oled-monitor/



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
DarylR42 is offline  
post #13222 of 13230 Old Yesterday, 07:51 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 13,599
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2899 Post(s)
Liked: 2076
Quote:
Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post
LG hasnt said anything definitive about 2017 but they have hinted that they will be going with a new OLED stack that uses red, green, and blue layers to make white light rather than yellow/blue.
That seems unlikely. That would make their OLEDs much more susceptible to burn in as each color will age differently due to the different chemical mix in each color. Their current system lets all the colors age uniformly (assuming they are all used equivalently). They might do that for OLED for portable devices where power matters more, but I don't see it likely for large TV size panels.
Stereodude is offline  
post #13223 of 13230 Old Yesterday, 08:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
slacker711's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,016
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 375 Post(s)
Liked: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
That seems unlikely. That would make their OLEDs much more susceptible to burn in as each color will age differently due to the different chemical mix in each color. Their current system lets all the colors age uniformly (assuming they are all used equivalently). They might do that for OLED for portable devices where power matters more, but I don't see it likely for large TV size panels.
It would still be a vertical stack like the current yellow/blue stack so differential aging within a pixel shouldnt be much of a concern.
slacker711 is offline  
post #13224 of 13230 Old Yesterday, 10:25 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 13,599
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2899 Post(s)
Liked: 2076
Quote:
Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post
It would still be a vertical stack like the current yellow/blue stack so differential aging within a pixel shouldnt be much of a concern.
Uh... It would not be a stack. They wouldn't need the color filter because the OLEDs would not all be white.
Stereodude is offline  
post #13225 of 13230 Old Yesterday, 10:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
slacker711's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,016
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 375 Post(s)
Liked: 362
This is a simplified version of what LGD is doing right now.



This is what I think LGD may do next year.



The OLED stack still produces white light which is then run through a color filter to produce red, green, and blue components. My assumption is that this provides a wider color gamut and that is driving the decision.
video_analysis likes this.
slacker711 is offline  
post #13226 of 13230 Old Yesterday, 11:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Wizziwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 2,060
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 875 Post(s)
Liked: 600
Would a deeper stack have an adverse effect on viewing angles? They already have a pretty significant color shift towards blue/green as you move off axis.
Wizziwig is online now  
post #13227 of 13230 Old Yesterday, 11:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
NintendoManiac64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 1,506
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 687 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post
I'd love to see 4K120 and 1080p240 as possible native input resolutions... but I don't think HDMI 2.0 is up to the task
1080p240 uses the same bandwidth as 2160p60.

4:2:0 chroma takes half the bandwidth, so since HDMI 2.0 can do 2160p60 4:4:4 then it can definitely do 2160p120 4:2:0.

The bigger issue is that this is at 8bit and not 10bit which you'd need for HDR. However, theoretically HDMI 2.0 can do 2160p50 4:4:4 at 10bit and therefore could possibly also do 2160p100 4:2:0 at 10bit (if someone has a modern HDMI 2.0 GPU and a 4k 10bit TV, they could try testing this by making a custom resolution of 3840x2160 50Hz 4:4:4 10bit).
NintendoManiac64 is offline  
post #13228 of 13230 Old Yesterday, 12:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,742
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2252 Post(s)
Liked: 2095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
Would a deeper stack have an adverse effect on viewing angles? They already have a pretty significant color shift towards blue/green as you move off axis.
I would like to know too.

I tried to figure this out a couple (few?) years ago in the middle of the "is it dichromatic or trichromatic white" arguments. Unless @slacker711 and @xrox are armed with data, AFAICT there isn't enough information to figure out what possible theoretical off-angle hooey can go on even with the current design (other than simply walking up to one and moving around).

1. We didn't know if a taller stack has thinner layers.
2. We didn't know what many of the other dimensions are.
3. We didn't know what light might escape from one layer at an angle through the OLED material layer below it (closer to the facing plane). This depends on transient voltages present among other things, and someone who knows please chime in.

---------Thought #AUY----------
Data is not Information
Information is not Knowledge
Knowledge is not Wisdom
tgm1024 is offline  
post #13229 of 13230 Old Yesterday, 01:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Wizziwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 2,060
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 875 Post(s)
Liked: 600
That diagram also doesn't include the actual color filter sitting some distance above the stack. The whole thing looks like there's got to be some degree of parallax which would affect the path taken by emitted light from the bottom layers. Agreed that without scale and units, it's difficult to judge.
Wizziwig is online now  
post #13230 of 13230 Old Today, 01:47 AM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 745
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 397 Post(s)
Liked: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Uh... It would not be a stack. They wouldn't need the color filter because the OLEDs would not all be white.
The aren't talking about RGB OLED, they are talking about using vertically stacked RGB OLED material that emits white light and uses a color filter. The idea isn't new, it's part of the patents they bought from Kodak. In fact I always though until fairly recently that is what LG was doing
Vader1 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply OLED Technology and Flat Panels General

Tags
Led Hdtv , Lcd Hdtv , Plasma Hdtv , Oled Tv , Lg , Samsung



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off