OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 442 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13231 of 13974 Old 09-24-2016, 03:52 PM
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It would seem that the OLED panel on the X1 Yoga is actually using a non-standard sub-pixel arrangement:
https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/co...ubpixel_array/

Therefore one of the supposed benefits of Samsung RGB OLED over LG's WOLED is not actually true.
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post #13232 of 13974 Old 09-28-2016, 12:54 PM
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In more PC-related OLED news...

Quote:
For the utilization of OLED in the medical care sector, Kwon said, “The monitor division at LG Electronics is planning to start expanding the medical monitor business, including ultra high definition medical monitors, from the end of this year."
They're obviously starting at the high-end with those medical monitors, but that still confirms the manufacturing of medium-sized UHD panels which would be necessary for professional and eventually consumer monitors.

That combined with their demonstration of HFR tells me that an LG-made 120Hz UHD OLED monitor is all but confirmed to exist at some point in the future.
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post #13233 of 13974 Old 09-28-2016, 04:39 PM
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Sorry to always rain on your parade but...

Those medical monitors are priced in the same range as Sony's broadcast OLED monitors or even higher. They also sell in similar tiny numbers. Are you expecting Sony to also sell OLED consumer monitors soon? You need panels targeted at large volume markets before you see prices trickle down to consumer level.

HFR has nothing to do with computer monitors. They are testing HFR for IPTV streaming of sporting events. All current OLEDs already run at 120Hz but you can't feed that via HDMI due to bandwidth limitations. Doubtful LG will ever add Displayport. HFR is basically a streaming-only format for the foreseeable future.
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post #13234 of 13974 Old 09-28-2016, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
Sorry to always rain on your parade but...

Those medical monitors are priced in the same range as Sony's broadcast OLED monitors or even higher. They also sell in similar tiny numbers. Are you expecting Sony to also sell OLED consumer monitors soon? You need panels targeted at large volume markets before you see prices trickle down to consumer level.
Where did I use the word "soon"?

Besides, not only did I mention professional monitors which Sony does sell along-side their broadcast monitors but I even specifically used the word "eventually" with regards to consumer-level monitors.

It's also worth mentioning that, unlike Sony, LG Display one of if not the largest manufacturer of consumer laptop & monitor-sized LCD panels. Considering that Samsung is starting to expand up-market from phones & tablets to laptops & monitors with their own OLED panels, it would be of no surprise if LG started expanding down-market with OLED to try to prevent Samsung from encroaching on their market share of laptop & monitor-sized panels.

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HFR has nothing to do with computer monitors. They are testing HFR for IPTV streaming of sporting events.
...which would still require 120Hz broadcast and/or professional monitors for, you know, monitoring.
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
All current OLEDs already run at 120Hz but you can't feed that via HDMI due to bandwidth limitations.
HDMI 2.0 has the bandwidth to do UHD 120Hz 8bit at 4:2:0 and theoretically UHD 100Hz 10bit at 4:2:0. Last time I checked practically all digital video used 4:2:0 chroma subsampling.
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Doubtful LG will ever add Displayport. HFR is basically a streaming-only format for the foreseeable future.
Again, broadcast and professional monitors; 4:4:4 chroma is quite important in the PC space.
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post #13235 of 13974 Old 09-30-2016, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
Where did I use the word "soon"?

Besides, not only did I mention professional monitors which Sony does sell along-side their broadcast monitors but I even specifically used the word "eventually" with regards to consumer-level monitors.

It's also worth mentioning that, unlike Sony, LG Display one of if not the largest manufacturer of consumer laptop & monitor-sized LCD panels. Considering that Samsung is starting to expand up-market from phones & tablets to laptops & monitors with their own OLED panels, it would be of no surprise if LG started expanding down-market with OLED to try to prevent Samsung from encroaching on their market share of laptop & monitor-sized panels.

...which would still require 120Hz broadcast and/or professional monitors for, you know, monitoring. HDMI 2.0 has the bandwidth to do UHD 120Hz 8bit at 4:2:0 and theoretically UHD 100Hz 10bit at 4:2:0. Last time I checked practically all digital video used 4:2:0 chroma subsampling.

Again, broadcast and professional monitors; 4:4:4 chroma is quite important in the PC space.
The case of OLED monitors for general public is weak. For professional apps there is a niche.
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post #13236 of 13974 Old 09-30-2016, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post
The case of OLED monitors for general public is weak.
By that logic... "The case of OLED laptops for general public is weak."

Yet they exist.

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post #13237 of 13974 Old 09-30-2016, 03:50 PM
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Impulse drive or PWM in new OLEDs?

I noticed in this video of the Panasonic prototype, starting about 1:20, there appears to be PWM/pulse drive artifacts captured.
Could future OLEDs be pulse driven? Or maybe just using PWM for dimming.
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post #13238 of 13974 Old 09-30-2016, 10:40 PM
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Or maybe just using PWM for dimming.
This is likely the case as even many standard LED-backlit LCD displays (such as those in laptops) are actually PWM but certainly not for backlight-strobing as evidenced by their sample-and-hold blur.

Besides, if it was PWM at a level necessary for black-frame insertion, the flickering would be much more noticeable in the video.

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post #13239 of 13974 Old 10-01-2016, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
It's also worth mentioning that, unlike Sony, LG Display one of if not the largest manufacturer of consumer laptop & monitor-sized LCD panels. Considering that Samsung is starting to expand up-market from phones & tablets to laptops & monitors with their own OLED panels, it would be of no surprise if LG started expanding down-market with OLED to try to prevent Samsung from encroaching on their market share of laptop & monitor-sized panels.
This is unlikely. LG is focusing on TV and has enough problems carving out market share for OLED there to think about small displays and competing with Samsung. For Samsung it is exactly opposite.

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By that logic... "The case of OLED laptops for general public is weak."
Yet they exist.
They exist more as a curiosity and one can not see them moving into the mainstream. There is no compelling visual advantage for OLED in laptop.
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post #13240 of 13974 Old 10-01-2016, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
This is likely the case as even many standard LED-backlit LCD displays (such as those in laptops) are actually PWM but certainly not for backlight-strobing as evidenced by their sample-and-hold blur.

Besides, if it was PWM at a level necessary for black-frame insertion, the flickering would be much more noticeable in the video.
Yeah, that's probably the case. I'm not a big fan of PWM dimming since it increases eyestrain for me.
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post #13241 of 13974 Old 10-01-2016, 06:13 AM
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They exist more as a curiosity and one can not see them moving into the mainstream. There is no compelling visual advantage for OLED in laptop.
The reviews beg to differ.

My guess is that once Apple changes over to an OLED enabled iPhone in 2017 that LCD's will begin to be seen as an "old' technology....sort of like resolution instantly became more important when the iPhone 4 was launched.
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post #13242 of 13974 Old 10-01-2016, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post
There is no compelling visual advantage for OLED in laptop.
Could you please elaborate what you mean by "compelling" with regards to visual advantages?
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post #13243 of 13974 Old 10-01-2016, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
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Could you please elaborate what you mean by "compelling" with regards to visual advantages?
I'd like to know too, because I find the OLED in my Samsung phone to be a compelling visual increment over the other phones I've seen. Can't imagine that a laptop wouldn't be more important for visual impact.
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post #13244 of 13974 Old 10-02-2016, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
Could you please elaborate what you mean by "compelling" with regards to visual advantages?
Start with blacks and think about usage scenarios of laptops. The OLED black advantage over LCD is simply not visible unless laptops are used in dark spaces which is by far marginal.
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post #13245 of 13974 Old 10-02-2016, 01:16 PM
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Yeah how much full-screen video is being consumed on laptops?

I'm not talking about Youtube stuff but full-length movies?

Then again, apparently people are watching a lot of videos on iPads.

Battery life may be worse if you're using the laptop most of the time for desktop or "web" applications, meaning most of the screen is lit most of the time.
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post #13246 of 13974 Old 10-02-2016, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post
The OLED black advantage over LCD is simply not visible unless laptops are used in dark spaces which is by far marginal.
Then why is Lenovo selling a laptop with an optional OLED display right now?

Are you aware that, not only to laptops rarely use VA panels like TVs, but they also lack local-dimming? A contrast ratio of only 1000:1 is quite common:
For reference here's the maximum brightness of those same LCD displays:
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post #13247 of 13974 Old 10-02-2016, 09:44 PM
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That Anandtech review also confirms the usual Samsung mobile OLED problems with colored black/white ghosting. Just like their phone displays used in VR. Hardly something gamers would be lusting over on a larger monitor. It almost reminds me of LCD response-time overdrive errors. Also shows the same wacky gamma response that one of the owners here was complaining about - leading to incorrect steps between colors and increase in posterization. Doing a 1D grayscale calibration via the video card LUT is not going to cure this either. It will produce nice charts but in the real-world, you will have some clipped colors and banding due to the limited precision of the LUTs and 8-bit displays. Too bad Samsung exited the laptop market. They probably could have done a better job since their tablets and phones have good factory calibration.

It's also interesting about all the IR/BI preventive measures they've included. I wonder why they don't do that with phones given many people complain about BI of the status bars.

I'm still skeptical of the whole iPhone OLED rumors. Why bother when your LCD has results this good:

The iPhone 7 matches or breaks new Smartphone display performance records for:
• The Highest Absolute Color Accuracy for any display (1.1 JNCD) – Visually Indistinguishable from Perfect
• The Highest Absolute Luminance Accuracy for any display (±2%) – Visually Indistinguishable from Perfect
• Very Accurate Image Contrast and Intensity Scale (with Gamma 2.21) – Visually Indistinguishable from Perfect
• The Highest Peak Brightness Smartphone for any Average Picture Level APL (602 to 705 nits)
• The Highest (True) Contrast Ratio for any IPS LCD display (1,762) – Higher Dynamic Contrast Ratios are phony
• The Lowest Screen Reflectance for any Smartphone display (4.4 percent)
• The Highest Contrast Rating in High Ambient Light for a Smartphone for any APL (137 to 160)
• The Smallest Color variation with Viewing Angle (2.1 JNCD or less)

Source.
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post #13248 of 13974 Old 10-03-2016, 08:29 AM
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Here is what Ive said about the OLED in the Apple Watch.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...pe-things-come

Quote:
The Apple Watch is designed to remain dark until a wearer raises his or her arm. In the prototypes worn around the Cupertino campus at the end of last year, this feature was still glitchy. For Marc Newson, it took three attempts—an escalation of acting styles, from naturalism to melodrama—before his screen came to life. Under normal circumstances, the screen will then show one of nine watch faces, each customizable. One will show the time alongside a brightly lit flower, butterfly, or jellyfish; these will be in motion, against a black background. This imagery had dominated the launch, and Ive now explained his enthusiasm for it. He picked up his iPhone 6 and pressed the home button. “The whole of the display comes on,” he said. “That, to me, feels very, very old.” (The iPhone 6 reached stores two weeks later.) He went on to explain that an Apple Watch uses a new display technology whose blacks are blacker than those in an iPhone’s L.E.D. display. This makes it easier to mask the point where, beneath a glass surface, a display ends and its frame begins. An Apple Watch jellyfish swims in deep space, and becomes, Ive said, as much an attribute of the watch as an image. On a current iPhone screen, a jellyfish would be pinned against dark gray, and framed in black, and, Ive said, have “much less magic.”
JMO, but this kind of statement isnt made by accident by an Apple exec. Once he said this, I thought it was just a matter of time until they switched the iPhone to an OLED.

You can see the evidence all over their display supply chain. Samsung is going to double their OLED capacity over the course of about 18 months. Apple's LCD suppliers (Sharp, Japan Display, and LGD) are all scrambling to build out their OLED capacity.

Apple has been hiring OLED engineers and scientists for the last few years and it will be interesting to see what kind of performance they can extract from their OLED iPhone.
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post #13249 of 13974 Old 10-03-2016, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
Yeah how much full-screen video is being consumed on laptops? I'm not talking about Youtube stuff but full-length movies? Then again, apparently people are watching a lot of videos on iPads. Battery life may be worse if you're using the laptop most of the time for desktop or "web" applications, meaning most of the screen is lit most of the time.
Is not only that people are not watching full length movies on laptops: they are not using laptops in the dark which means OLED superior blacks would go unnoticed.

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Then why is Lenovo selling a laptop with an optional OLED display right now? Are you aware that, not only to laptops rarely use VA panels like TVs, but they also lack local-dimming?
It is not only Lenovo but also Dell and HP are selling OLED laptops. This does not prove OLED has any bigger future in laptops, for ths it would have to match the LCD price which is next to impossible. OLED laptops are sold as prestige items for executive types.

What decides about the need for technology is usage scenario. OLEDs make compelling case for TVs. For laptops you rightly notice there is note even an effor to bring local dimming to LCD, it is not necessary given the usage scenario.
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post #13250 of 13974 Old 10-03-2016, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post
For laptops you rightly notice there is note even an effor to bring local dimming to LCD, it is not necessary given the usage scenario.
It has nothing to do with the usage scenario and everything to do with technological reasons. Surely you've noticed that there's no local dimming LCD screen in phones and tablets either, right? And tablets in particular are extremely content-consumption focused.
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post #13251 of 13974 Old 10-03-2016, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post
Is not only that people are not watching full length movies on laptops: they are not using laptops in the dark which means OLED superior blacks would go unnoticed.
The success of OLED's in mobile must really confuse you.
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post #13252 of 13974 Old 10-03-2016, 03:21 PM
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Slacker, of course we agree the iPhone is going OLED. And that at least starts next year (I'll admit the conflicting rumors in supply chain make me wonder whether all new models will be OLED in 2017 or whether it will be 2018 before that's true.)

That said, it's no small achievement for Apple to keep wringing out more and more performance from LCD. The iPhone 7 screen is really quite excellent, even compared to the iPhone 6s.

I'm not sure I'd prefer it to the Galaxy S7 screen (likely not, haven't spent enough time with the Samsung to say for certain), but it does bode well that Apple clearly is a difference maker on display quality.

Now, onto the other topic running around here, I'm quite sure there will be more OLED laptops. What I'm less sure about is how important this is. PC sales continue to crater. They are 20% off their peak with no sign of an uptick -- even IDC has stopped pretending growth is returning anytime soon.

I've been spending some time noodling on this lately and think that the future of PC sales is actually dimmer than almost any forecaster. For what it's worth IDC sees notebooks as essentially flat through decade's end, with ~150 million sold per year.

That's not nothing, of course, and represents an increasingly large slice of the increasingly smaller PC market. Some portion of that market is still premium, and will likely pay for OLED -- whether for performance, specs, quality, whatnot. But a business like notebooks starts looking increasingly like a cash cow-style business for manufacturers, who likely will devote fewer and fewer R&D resources to a customer base that is mostly (entirely?) buying for replacement.

To the extent that OLED begins to make inroads in laptops, I expect that unlike smartphones the portion will still be fairly insignificant at decade's end. Whether that's 10-20%, 2-5%, or 25-30% I'm less sure. Probably toward the lower end however.

I also tend to think that many consumers are on their last-ever laptop. Their kids don't generally use/need them (please don't tell me about how you bought your kid a laptop unless you explain how much sooner the kid demanded a smartphone). It's increasingly hard to find use cases for "normals" that require laptops (again, please don't tell me about your Photoshop/coding news). The only reason laptops sell at all is because laptops have sold for so long; its not that their "jobs to be done" haven't already been mostly subsumed by other devices. This generally doesn't yield significant category innovation, though it sometimes does yield "over-engineering" as the last sets of customers are enticed to "buy the best".

That might be the main reason to be bullish on OLED laptops: There will be a few more HP Envy/Spectres and Macbook Pros before this all goes away.

There's a saying about "everything in moderation". If only it was applied to well, you know...
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post #13253 of 13974 Old 10-03-2016, 05:10 PM
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Slacker, of course we agree the iPhone is going OLED. And that at least starts next year (I'll admit the conflicting rumors in supply chain make me wonder whether all new models will be OLED in 2017 or whether it will be 2018 before that's true.)
My guess is that Apple has been developing both LCD and OLED versions of both sizes and that is throwing off the supply chain rumors. The ability of Samsung to ramp up their new OLED capacity quickly will determine which course they follow. Right now, I think the likeliest scenario is that the Plus gets an OLED next year but there is still a possibility they make a complete move to OLED if Samsung moves quickly enough. I would be surprised if they launch two LCD models and an extra OLED model next fall.

Quote:
That said, it's no small achievement for Apple to keep wringing out more and more performance from LCD. The iPhone 7 screen is really quite excellent, even compared to the iPhone 6s.
The same is true for the Z9D. LCD's continue to push the envelope in terms of performance but it comes with quite a penalty in terms of cost.

Once Apple moves to OLED's, there really wont be much left in terms of LTPS LCD R&D. We are long way from that though in televisions. Samsung's decision to pursue quantum dots is going to slow the progress of OLED's.

Quote:
I also tend to think that many consumers are on their last-ever laptop. Their kids don't generally use/need them (please don't tell me about how you bought your kid a laptop unless you explain how much sooner the kid demanded a smartphone). It's increasingly hard to find use cases for "normals" that require laptops (again, please don't tell me about your Photoshop/coding news). The only reason laptops sell at all is because laptops have sold for so long; its not that their "jobs to be done" haven't already been mostly subsumed by other devices. This generally doesn't yield significant category innovation, though it sometimes does yield "over-engineering" as the last sets of customers are enticed to "buy the best".
How are you defining laptops?

If it is Windows 10/Mac OS machines only, then I agree. OTOH, from a display market perspective, tablets with keyboards and chromebooks are going to still going to require quite a bit of surface area (though at lower ASP's). I assume you arent projecting a future where kids are writing their papers on smartphones.
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post #13254 of 13974 Old 10-03-2016, 10:40 PM
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That Anandtech review also confirms the usual Samsung mobile OLED problems with colored black/white ghosting. Just like their phone displays used in VR. Hardly something gamers would be lusting over on a larger monitor.
Yet another reason why I want LG to get WOLED into smaller sized displays. I mean, we don't see anything at all like this on their OLED TVs.
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post #13255 of 13974 Old 10-04-2016, 03:08 AM
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It has nothing to do with the usage scenario and everything to do with technological reasons. Surely you've noticed that there's no local dimming LCD screen in phones and tablets either, right? And tablets in particular are extremely content-consumption focused.
Sure there are technological reasons. But first of all there is no real need.

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The success of OLED's in mobile must really confuse you.
It is a very limited success taking into consideration how much effort and money Samsung is pushing into mobile OLED. That said, it is obvious if OLED would be matching the price of the LCD across the range its success is guaranteed.

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Slacker, of course we agree the iPhone is going OLED. And that at least starts next year (I'll admit the conflicting rumors in supply chain make me wonder whether all new models will be OLED in 2017 or whether it will be 2018 before that's true.) That said, it's no small achievement for Apple to keep wringing out more and more performance from LCD. The iPhone 7 screen is really quite excellent, even compared to the iPhone 6s.
Which makes the case of switching to OLED less important on the priority list for the iPhone 8. That will happen only if the OLED price is just little higher than the high-end LCD. I don't know it that may happen next year. OLED has found its clear niches on the extreme ends: ultrasmall displays for wearables and high-end TVs.
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post #13256 of 13974 Old 10-04-2016, 10:38 AM
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According to NPD, a global market research company, for 65 inch TVs above $3,000, OLED TVs now have almost a 50% market share, and for 55 inch TVs above $2,000, OLED TVs now have more than a 60% market share.

It is unquestionably the Best Performing TV that we have ever tested or watched… In terms of picture quality the LG OLED TV is Visually Indistinguishable from Perfect. Even in terms of the exacting and precise Lab Measurements it is close to ideal, and it breaks many TV Display Performance Records.

http://www.displaymate.com/OLED_TV2016_ShootOut_1.htm

This was before LG's price cuts this week.
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post #13257 of 13974 Old 10-04-2016, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post
My guess is that Apple has been developing both LCD and OLED versions of both sizes and that is throwing off the supply chain rumors. The ability of Samsung to ramp up their new OLED capacity quickly will determine which course they follow. Right now, I think the likeliest scenario is that the Plus gets an OLED next year but there is still a possibility they make a complete move to OLED if Samsung moves quickly enough. I would be surprised if they launch two LCD models and an extra OLED model next fall.
I tend to think this is right, too. They also seem to have Sharp/JDI/LG all trying to get capacity ramped up for OLED, but none of that seems real for 2017.
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The same is true for the Z9D. LCD's continue to push the envelope in terms of performance but it comes with quite a penalty in terms of cost.
For Sony's TV, yes, For Apple's LCDs? I doubt it.
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Once Apple moves to OLED's, there really wont be much left in terms of LTPS LCD R&D. We are long way from that though in televisions. Samsung's decision to pursue quantum dots is going to slow the progress of OLED's.
Yep, likely giving the Chinese time to catch up and remove Samsung from the TV market down the road, the way Samsung pushed most others out.
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How are you defining laptops?

If it is Windows 10/Mac OS machines only, then I agree. OTOH, from a display market perspective, tablets with keyboards and chromebooks are going to still going to require quite a bit of surface area (though at lower ASP's). I assume you arent projecting a future where kids are writing their papers on smartphones.
So yes, I meant Win 10/MacOS on "laptops". I agree the other stuff isn't going away, but I think people continue to overstate the importance of Chromebooks. As of last year, they'd made it a "breathtaking" 3% of laptop sales. There is scant evidence they are crossing over into any new niches. They are nearly all cheap machines. No OLED volume exists there anytime soon, if ever.

Higher-end tablets (Samsung, Apple) will certainly see OLED and certainly can justify the higher BOM (n.b. I know Samsung already sells OLED tablets). This will, ironically, lead to the "laptop replacement" technology being almost entirely OLED while the laptop itself withers away having barely transitioned.

I see this as an OLED opportunity as tablets using nearly 4x the glass of smartphones. I don't see gamers being excited about it, however.

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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post
S
Which makes the case of switching to OLED less important on the priority list for the iPhone 8. That will happen only if the OLED price is just little higher than the high-end LCD. I don't know it that may happen next year. OLED has found its clear niches on the extreme ends: ultrasmall displays for wearables and high-end TVs.
I suspect Apple will end up paying less per screen for OLED than it pays for its current LCDs. There are better scale economies to be had and OLED keeps moving down the learning curve.

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Originally Posted by ynotgoal View Post
According to NPD, a global market research company, for 65 inch TVs above $3,000, OLED TVs now have almost a 50% market share, and for 55 inch TVs above $2,000, OLED TVs now have more than a 60% market share.
I wonder if this isn't incredibly damning for just how small those markets are -- a drum I've beaten here for years.

If LG has about half the markets for $2000+ TVs (and really that's a fair result from those numbers) with just 1 million units this year (will it be that many?). That means the entire high end TV market is still below 1% of all TV sales. For all the success LG has achieved thus far, that's a teardrop in the Pacific. It certainly appears the the 55-inch model needs to get to $1000 for LG to achieve its volume goals for the 2018 10G fab and that the 65 needs to get to $2000.

Even at those numbers, you are still looking at LCD with 85% of the market (or more).
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It is unquestionably the Best Performing TV that we have ever tested or watched… In terms of picture quality the LG OLED TV is Visually Indistinguishable from Perfect. Even in terms of the exacting and precise Lab Measurements it is close to ideal, and it breaks many TV Display Performance Records.

http://www.displaymate.com/OLED_TV2016_ShootOut_1.htm

This was before LG's price cuts this week.
And that's the silver living. For years, we accepted that a high-end 65-inch was $3000 and up. You could get a decent one for $1000 less from Panasonic or Samsung at times.

Looking ahead, a high-end 65-inch will be $2000 or less. It will be better than the $3000 set was from 2010-2014. In every way, I'd argue (yes, you motion-handling nitpickers would disagree perhaps).

Anyone want to bet on when the 65-inch OLED is $1000? Likely before 2025.

There's a saying about "everything in moderation". If only it was applied to well, you know...
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post #13258 of 13974 Old 10-04-2016, 08:16 PM
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Start with blacks and think about usage scenarios of laptops. The OLED black advantage over LCD is simply not visible unless laptops are used in dark spaces which is by far marginal.
Since when is black the only advantage for OLED? I think OLED's unprecedented pixel response would be very important and useful for many applications. Pixel response is the reason you almost never have VA panels in a laptops. Also OLED's viewing angle is even better than IPS and that's useful. I doubt advantages stop there
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post #13259 of 13974 Old 10-04-2016, 08:24 PM
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Wide viewing angles in a laptop would not be an asset.

In fact, in some instances, it might be a liability.
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post #13260 of 13974 Old 10-04-2016, 08:37 PM
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Wide viewing angles in a laptop would not be an asset.

In fact, in some instances, it might be a liability.
...how?
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