OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 448 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #13411 of 13469 Old 11-17-2016, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
On the other hand, to be fair, this Forum as is recieves nowhere near the volume and traffic of the LCD forum...
It receives more than the CRT or even Plasma sub forums do these days though. I think it's active enough
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post #13412 of 13469 Old 11-17-2016, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Vader1 View Post
It receives more than the CRT or even Plasma sub forums do these days though. I think it's active enough
Fair enough, though on the other hand, those are both legacy threads that were once very active in their heyday, and it's easier to leave them as is than it is to combine them or move them somewhere else.

The effort needed to split something off and establish a new forum is understandably easiest to accept once the future growth of that topic/domain is assured...

And said another way, if we pulled all of the OLED-related posts out of this Forum, what would be left?
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post #13413 of 13469 Old 11-17-2016, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
if we pulled all of the OLED-related posts out of this Forum, what would be left?
Maybe the kinds of things that was on here before one could buy OLED TVs?
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post #13414 of 13469 Old 11-17-2016, 11:45 PM
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I'm just generally asking what will it take to get the mods to do make an official OLED Sub Forum? Or is it just kind of laziness, like is it difficult or time consuming for the mods to do it? Really just wondering what it is...
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post #13415 of 13469 Old 11-18-2016, 12:21 AM
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Please stop crapping on this thread for what amounts to an irrelevant discussion of whether or not the 3 non-OLED threads in this forum are somehow getting in the way of all the OLED threads. They aren't, but this thread crapping has nothing to do with Technology Advancements in OLED.

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post #13416 of 13469 Old 11-18-2016, 12:22 AM
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What will it take to get a section exclusively for OLED? We've had OLED TV's now about 4 years (plus before 2013 those small monitors from Sony and LG) and like 7-8 different brands have released at least 1 OLED... seems pretty established to me
As far as I can tell, one company sells consumer OLEDs. Certainly, there's only one panel supplier. Unequivocally, OLEDs represent <1% of TVs sold.

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post #13417 of 13469 Old 11-18-2016, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
On the other hand, to be fair, this Forum as is recieves nowhere near the volume and traffic of the LCD forum...
Sure, as the LCD is 99% of the market. But OLED is in shops, it is the best display tech, its sales are fast growing and thus deserves its forum. Rational arguments are not relevant however for people who are oriented towards the past, acting like vintage collectors. For those who are rational it is evident that there should be a forum "Historical Display Technologies" and there there should be threads for the CRT, plasma, and so on. But inertia and conservatism are such deep characterological features they are impossible to change.
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post #13418 of 13469 Old 11-18-2016, 08:06 AM
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Yeah it's pretty ridiculous how at this point there still isn't any real OLED section

... and yet according to some people the mods are totally pro OLED and anti everything else. Lol.
Sorry, but being "Pro OLED" or "Anti OLED" (whatever those terms mean) doesn't equate in any way to being for or against a dedicated OLED section. It's not connected either way.

Thought #AYB: If you choose to buy the very brightest of TVs, are you nitpicking?
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post #13419 of 13469 Old 11-18-2016, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
Please stop crapping on this thread for what amounts to an irrelevant discussion of whether or not the 3 non-OLED threads in this forum are somehow getting in the way of all the OLED threads. They aren't, but this thread crapping has nothing to do with Technology Advancements in OLED.
Bingo. What we have here are ever more easily diagnosable cases of AVS Myopia Disorder.

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post #13420 of 13469 Old 11-18-2016, 08:58 AM
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As far as I can tell, one company sells consumer OLEDs. Certainly, there's only one panel supplier. Unequivocally, OLEDs represent <1% of TVs sold.
Technically 6 companies (as far as I know) have released at least 1 OLED TV (Samsung, LG, Panasonic, Loewe, Philips, Skyworth). That's not including those tiny monitors that Sony and LG made which are mostly irrelevant. All of them except the lone Samsung RGB OLED used LG panels. All of them except LG only released one model, and Panasonic is the only one (other than LG of course) planning to follow up with another. I know what you mean, since 2013 only one company has consistently released generations of OLED TV's in multiple sizes/ models that are widely available to most people. Maybe that is factoring into the mods decision not to make a full OLED sub forum. I just want to know at want point do they think OLED deserves a Sub Forum and also does this have anything to do with it or is it just laziness? Or perhaps a mix of both

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Sorry, but being "Pro OLED" or "Anti OLED" (whatever those terms mean) doesn't equate in any way to being for or against a dedicated OLED section. It's not connected either way.
I never meant to imply that because there is no OLED Sub Forum the mods are biased against OLED. If it sounded like I was saying that, I'm not. Just saying a couple people (in particular one) accused the mods on this board of being pro OLED before and I happened to think of that during this discussion.

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post #13421 of 13469 Old 11-18-2016, 09:38 AM
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I just want to know at want point do they think OLED deserves a Sub Forum and also does this have anything to do with it or is it just laziness? Or perhaps a mix of both
I'm not strongly against it per se, but I'm still missing how it matters. OLED is still a new tech in terms of semi-affordable (TV market) displays. Is this subforum somehow polluted by endless threads of SED, FED, Quantum, or whatever, that I'm not seeing?

I'm also not sure how you're perceiving what the term "deserves" means in terms of a technology. It's almost seems to me as if you're viewing this as a body of people who are being emotionally slighted by not having their own tightly partitioned club or something.

It's a technology and nothing more glamorous than that.
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post #13422 of 13469 Old 11-18-2016, 10:46 AM
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I'm not strongly against it per se, but I'm still missing how it matters. OLED is still a new tech in terms of semi-affordable (TV market) displays. Is this subforum somehow polluted by endless threads of SED, FED, Quantum, or whatever, that I'm not seeing?

I'm also not sure how you're perceiving what the term "deserves" means in terms of a technology. It's almost seems to me as if you're viewing this as a body of people who are being emotionally slighted by not having their own tightly partitioned club or something.

It's a technology and nothing more glamorous than that.
I get your points and what your saying is reasonable and fair enough. I don't think it's really important, not enough to keep going on about. I just think sometime in the near future the mods really need to make a separate OLED Subforum like most of the other established displays have. I think it probably should have been done by now, but I'm not outraged it hasn't been done
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post #13423 of 13469 Old 11-18-2016, 12:35 PM
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^^It's just logical, though the AVS categorization has become huge and unruly. I can just imagine some legacy fans being upset if to mediate that, as suggested by irkuck, they lumped all of the defunct TV techs into one subforum.
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post #13424 of 13469 Old 11-18-2016, 12:48 PM
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^^It's just logical, though the AVS categorization has become huge and unruly. I can just imagine some legacy fans being upset if to mediate that, as suggested by irkuck, they lumped all of the defunct TV techs into one subforum.
Frankly, this is precisely the reason for a tag based system, and why I'm seeing tag systems show up more and more.

If we want to, the tags could be the existing forum names themselves at first. This would allow us to check off which subforums (each their own tag) relates to a particular thread. (no more than 2 perhaps). And still allow people to find only OLED stuff, etc., and use the forum as they always have if it made them feel more comfortable.

Meanwhile, back on Earth.....

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post #13425 of 13469 Old 11-18-2016, 05:51 PM
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Technically 6 companies (as far as I know) have released at least 1 OLED TV (Samsung, LG, Panasonic, Loewe, Philips, Skyworth).
Sincere questions: What do you think the total, global sales of all 5 of those others were? (I think <10,000.)

Are any of them still on the market? (I know Samsung isn't. I know Panasonic isn't. I know the Loewe is new. I guess Skyworth might be for sale in China?!? I guess the Philips is new?) I'd argue zero of them deserve a thread in an English-language forum, never mind their own forum. Maybe "Other OLEDs no one has bought or purchased"?
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That's not including those tiny monitors that Sony and LG made which are mostly irrelevant.
Completely and totally irrelevant. They barely existed for sale, too.

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I just want to know at want point do they think OLED deserves a Sub Forum and also does this have anything to do with it or is it just laziness? Or perhaps a mix of both
How about when someone else actually demonstrates their in the market and sells some TVs. Right now, the idea that a single vendor with a short, arguably over-assorted product line needs a forum that doesn't also discuss nonsense like QLED is its own kind of nonsense.

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post #13426 of 13469 Old 11-18-2016, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
Sincere questions: What do you think the total, global sales of all 5 of those others were? (I think <10,000.)
Are any of them still on the market? (I know Samsung isn't. I know Panasonic isn't. I know the Loewe is new. I guess Skyworth might be for sale in China?!? I guess the Philips is new?) I'd argue zero of them deserve a thread in an English-language forum, never mind their own forum. Maybe "Other OLEDs no one has bought or purchased"?

I honestly wouldn't know where to begin trying to make a real numerical estimate on the sales of those other 5 OLED's. I'm sure the 5 of them together are a very very small percentage of global TV sales. 1% or less. Most were never even sold in North America. I think the Samsung was the only non-LG ever sold in NA, and it was available for a very limited amount of time. The thread for the Samsung OLED has only like 30 pages and a handful of AVS members have ever owned it. All of the non-LG's were/ are very limited. I imagine maybe 100 people in the world own a 2015 Panasonic OLED... Nonetheless I don't think it's outrageous to have a separate OLED section like the rest of the technologies do at this point. It's pretty well established now and I don't think anybody reasonable is expecting it to just disappear in the next 5 years. Isn't a separate OLED Subforum certain to happen at some point? I would really like to know what the mods thoughts on this btw


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How about when someone else actually demonstrates their in the market and sells some TVs. Right now, the idea that a single vendor with a short, arguably over-assorted product line needs a forum that doesn't also discuss nonsense like QLED is its own kind of nonsense.

You've been here since 1999 and you're one of the oldest members here. AVS Forum itself isn't much older than you've been here. How did it work back then in the early Flatpanel era? How long did it take for LCD to get it's own subforum, or has it just always had one? LCD TV sales back in 1999 were pretty small and few companies had even entered into LCD at that time.

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post #13427 of 13469 Old 11-19-2016, 09:11 AM
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There basically is only one OLED manufacturer the others are more a less a joke. It is like ''look we have a OLED TV to'' and it is not much more than that. We needs at least three competitive OLED brands for a OLED only forum.
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post #13428 of 13469 Old 11-19-2016, 10:23 AM
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There basically is only one OLED manufacturer the others are more a less a joke. It is like ''look we have a OLED TV to'' and it is not much more than that. We needs at least three competitive OLED brands for a OLED only forum.
Assuming I just accept this because I really don't care as much as people seem to think I do... does anybody really know if this is the mods reason for not making an OLED Sub section or are we just guessing?
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post #13429 of 13469 Old 11-19-2016, 10:55 AM
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Assuming I just accept this because I really don't care as much as people seem to think I do... does anybody really know if this is the mods reason for not making an OLED Sub section or are we just guessing?
We do not know. But we do know that we have a OLED/Flatpanel General Forum for a while now which suggests that OLED must do much better than it does now to get its own forum.
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post #13430 of 13469 Old 11-19-2016, 01:10 PM
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I honestly wouldn't know where to begin trying to make a real numerical estimate on the sales of those other 5 OLED's. I'm sure the 5 of them together are a very very small percentage of global TV sales. 1% or less.
Sorry, I just need to clarify things so people understand them.

OLEDs altogether are nowhere near 1% of TV sales. If LG hits 1 million this year (someone can correct his figure), that's under 0.5% of TV sales -- which are >200 million globally. The other 5 are maybe 1/20th of LG sales. That's generously 0.01% of TV sales.
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You've been here since 1999 and you're one of the oldest members here. AVS Forum itself isn't much older than you've been here. How did it work back then in the early Flatpanel era? How long did it take for LCD to get it's own subforum, or has it just always had one? LCD TV sales back in 1999 were pretty small and few companies had even entered into LCD at that time.
I argued strongly against splitting plasma and LCD. The religious warriors eventually won a split by behaving like children and turning every single thread in a war. I think that did a huge disservice at the time because people were choosing between the two displays. And it became impossible to have any intelligent discussions that helped people make a purchase choice.

The nice thing about this forum here is that you can actually start a thread called "HDR benefits of LCD and OLED" and no one can claim it's off topic. Do that in the LCD area and expect to have your head bitten off.
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post #13431 of 13469 Old 11-19-2016, 03:12 PM
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Sorry, I just need to clarify things so people understand them.

OLEDs altogether are nowhere near 1% of TV sales. If LG hits 1 million this year (someone can correct his figure), that's under 0.5% of TV sales -- which are >200 million globally. The other 5 are maybe 1/20th of LG sales. That's generously 0.01% of TV sales.


I argued strongly against splitting plasma and LCD. The religious warriors eventually won a split by behaving like children and turning every single thread in a war. I think that did a huge disservice at the time because people were choosing between the two displays. And it became impossible to have any intelligent discussions that helped people make a purchase choice.

The nice thing about this forum here is that you can actually start a thread called "HDR benefits of LCD and OLED" and no one can claim it's off topic. Do that in the LCD area and expect to have your head bitten off.
I thought I read LG's OLED's had captured about 2% of the global TV market. I guess I must be misremembering what I read or I just misread. Anyways I'm clear on that now.

I'm gonna just drop it at this point, I don't think it's really important (I didn't actually bring it up either) and it's true there is very little Non-OLED talk in this forum. I imagine the mods will do it one day. Yeah I bet those early Flatpanel days were rough. I wasn't old enough to really experience the old Plasma vs. LCD wars but I bet they were a lot more intense than OLED vs. LCD is. True about the LCD section... especially any Sony threads over there.
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post #13432 of 13469 Old 11-19-2016, 05:33 PM
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Got my new 65C6P last night and just thought I would past a quick preliminary report that I am very impressed with the progress LG has made over the past year.

Near-black uniformity is close to perfect and by far the best on the 8 OLEDs I have had in my home over the past 20 months (no vignetting or anti-Vignetting).

Near-black performance and calibration controls appear to be improved as well (have not dived back in to calibration yet - that will take some time).

Dolby Vision is stunning. I'm rewatching Matco Polo from the beginning since it feels like an entirely different cut due to the HDRDV - everything I had hoped for as far as image quality.

After an epic saga that started with the purchase of one of the last 65ZT60s available close to three years ago, this 65C6P looks like a keeper ;-).

Very happy and hoping this means LG OLED will be here to stay...
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post #13433 of 13469 Old 11-20-2016, 07:43 AM
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Dolby Vision is stunning. I'm rewatching Matco Polo from the beginning since it feels like an entirely different cut due to the HDRDV - everything I had hoped for as far as image quality.

DV vs. non-HDR is one thing. How does DV compare to HDR10 in your opinion?

Thought #AYB: If you choose to buy the very brightest of TVs, are you nitpicking?
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post #13434 of 13469 Old 11-20-2016, 11:57 AM
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DV vs. non-HDR is one thing. How does DV compare to HDR10 in your opinion?
Sorry for not being clear.

Watched Marco Polo in HDR on my 65EF9500.

Watching it on the 65C6P was like an entirely new master - much better.

In general, Netflix delivers the stream in whatever the 'best' quality possible to the TV, so I have no easy way to view Matco Polo in SDR but I'm pretty sure either HDR steam would be clearly superior.

I picked up a Chromecast Ultra to try to stream HDR with Atmos and using that, when I stream Matco Polo through my AVR, it arrives I to the 65C6P as HDR10.

Watching the same scenes back-to-back was a no contest - the HDRDV looked much better out of the box.

I'm told that through calibration of HDR20 on the 2016 OLEDs, HDR10 can be improved and can come closer to the quality of HDRDV on an OLED.

But first, make no mistake that Dolby Vision HDR represents the new gold standard / video reference, and second, for the masses who don't want to screw around with calibration, the hands-off' approach LG has taken in offering HDRDV in their OLEDs means that many/most professional comparisons are going to give a significant not to HDRDV.

Video Luddites are having their jaws dropped by my 65C6P when watching Marco Polo in HDRDV. They (and me) have never seen such high-quality and life-like video before.

Don't want to watch anything I care about in a theater because the experience at home is now so much superior...
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post #13435 of 13469 Old 11-20-2016, 01:34 PM
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Why did you get the C6 instead of the B6?

Because of or in spite of the curve?
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post #13436 of 13469 Old 11-20-2016, 02:05 PM
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post #13437 of 13469 Old 11-20-2016, 05:25 PM
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Why did you get the C6 instead of the B6?

Because of or in spite of the curve?
LGs 3D is incredible, even if it only ends up getting used a few times a year.

The curve is not a showstopper - it's very mild and pretty much unnoticeable when viewing in the dark.

I let the kids decide and they wanted 3D, so LG's bone-headed product strategy forced my hand...

The fact that the C6P shares the same custom LG processor as the E6 and G6 rather than the after-market processor used in the B6 was icing on the cake.
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post #13438 of 13469 Old 11-21-2016, 06:00 AM
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Skyworth intends to build an OLED set based on a BOE panel next year. It is intended for sale in Europe and China.

http://english.etnews.com/20161121200002

This must be built off a pilot line so volumes and yields will be tiny. Still, it is the first step towards getting a 2nd OLED manufacturer in the market. I'll be curious to see whether it is WOLED or RGB (or something else?).
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post #13439 of 13469 Old 11-21-2016, 07:44 AM
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BOE is using WOLED on a pilot line. Various speculation about increased Gen 8.5 capacity but they have yet to start investment.

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post #13440 of 13469 Old 11-21-2016, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
LGs 3D is incredible,
{chucklechucklechuckle...} (<------not so subtle reference to our prior 3D arguments, :-P)


Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
even if it only ends up getting used a few times a year.

The curve is not a showstopper - it's very mild and pretty much unnoticeable when viewing in the dark.

I let the kids decide and they wanted 3D, so LG's bone-headed
Feel free to bold that one yourself next time.... The @#$%ers....


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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
product strategy forced my hand...

The fact that the C6P shares the same custom LG processor as the E6 and G6 rather than the after-market processor used in the B6 was icing on the cake.
Yeah...........I'm dubious of stuff like that. It isn't guaranteed to be the case in every C6P IMO. I suspect when things like component-level guts get "verified" that it's more a matter of what component deal LG made at the moment, not what is guaranteed to be in every display as if it were part of some spec.

Thought #AYB: If you choose to buy the very brightest of TVs, are you nitpicking?

Last edited by tgm1024; 11-21-2016 at 08:11 AM.
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