OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 450 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

Forum Jump: 
 967Likes
Reply
Thread Tools
post #13471 of 13485 Old 12-03-2016, 08:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
slacker711's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,056
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 404 Post(s)
Liked: 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
Well, as one of the mini-legion of folks that have kept a candela (sic) burning for anything of the form "Crystal LED", I have to say that I'm overjoyed at the potential. Do you suppose that 4K was what kept it from showing up on the radar sooner?
The higher resolution does make it harder, but there are other issues where size impacts yields. The rumors expect the Apple Watch to be first and even assuming success there, I would expect it will be a while before TV's are feasible.

Here is a decent article covering some of the issues.

http://www.asahi-optics.com/news/36.html

Eye opening quote.

Quote:
“Micro-LEDs require a high yield rate of more than 99.9999%, close to 100% in fact,” said PlayNitride CEO Charles Li.
slacker711 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #13472 of 13485 Old 12-03-2016, 12:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fafrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 2020
Quote:
Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post
The higher resolution does make it harder, but there are other issues where size impacts yields. The rumors expect the Apple Watch to be first and even assuming success there, I would expect it will be a while before TV's are feasible.

Here is a decent article covering some of the issues.

http://www.asahi-optics.com/news/36.html

Eye opening quote.
They are talking primarily about assembly-related yield onto the backplane where each failure will result in a dead pixel;

"Micro-LEDs require a high yield rate of more than 99.9999%, close to 100% in fact,” said PlayNitride CEO Charles Li.
The reason behind this especially high demand is the issue of dead-pixels."


By way of reference, LGs WOLED spec is apparently somewhere between 5 and 10 dead pixels. A 4K display contains ~8M pixels, so an assembly yield of 99.9999% corresponds 0.00001% or about 8 bad pixels .
tgm1024 likes this.
fafrd is offline  
post #13473 of 13485 Old 12-03-2016, 02:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,183
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Liked: 453
The concept of True LED displays has been around for a long time but they've mostly been used strictly as very large billboards and theme park displays. Perhaps with a few advancments we'll see a few new proprietary LED based displays for niche things in the future, but I think it's got practically no chance of ever turning into a mainstream display technology for TV's, PC's, or mobile devices. For those devices I don't think we'll see anything besides LCD and OLED in the next 5 years. After that point if anything will come after them it's probably going to be QLED, unless somebody has some secret display tech cooking in a lab some where waiting ot be announced...
Vader1 is online now  
post #13474 of 13485 Old 12-04-2016, 08:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,929
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2386 Post(s)
Liked: 2184
I also look forward to the longevity and uniformity measurements.

Longevity in particular is going to be interesting. I remember as a kid asking about a red LED I saw: "What happens if that 'everything's ok' light on that ancient circuit board burns out." I was told: "That thing has been shining bright for 18 years. Don't ask me why, but these things don't burn out."

No clue if this relates to now.

Thought #AYE: If you choose to buy the very brightest of TVs, are you nitpicking?
tgm1024 is online now  
post #13475 of 13485 Old Yesterday, 06:07 AM
Newbie
 
NewYorkRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Anyone in Canada get the HDR Game Mode firmware update yet?? Been checking a couple times a day in the update menu, nothing coming up.
NewYorkRanger is offline  
post #13476 of 13485 Old Yesterday, 07:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Rudy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 4,358
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 843 Post(s)
Liked: 1059
SONY OLED AT CES 2017?

http://4k.com/news/rumors-spread-of-...january-17815/

We, The Unwilling, led by The Unknowing, are doing the impossible for The Ungrateful.
Rudy1 is online now  
post #13477 of 13485 Old Yesterday, 10:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
slimoli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: South Florida
Posts: 5,292
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 414 Post(s)
Liked: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy1 View Post
Bad news to me. I am expecting a Sony 85" similar to the 75XZ9d to be announced but if Sony goes OLED , my hopes are gone. Chances are they will promote the OLED as the new flagship and never release anything high-end larger than 77". If they do, price will be crazy. LeEco 85" is cheap,FALD but....no Sony.

I was so happy without HDR...
slimoli is online now  
post #13478 of 13485 Old Today, 12:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,316
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1913 Post(s)
Liked: 1524
Putting LCD out to pasture in the high end would be good news. That horse has been beat long enough.
video_analysis is offline  
post #13479 of 13485 Old Today, 12:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
fafrd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 2020
Quote:
Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Putting LCD out to pasture in the high end would be good news. That horse has been beat long enough.
I doubt LCD will be put out to pasture in the high end anytime soon. There are always going to be customers attracted to very bright TVs (especially those who watch with bright lights on).

But there is a new panel in town, and just for OLED to capture 51% market share at the high-end would be a pretty remarkable achievement...
fafrd is offline  
post #13480 of 13485 Old Today, 01:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,316
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1913 Post(s)
Liked: 1524
There will always be someone who wants it brighter...and I'm sure if a marketer said we've managed to match the output of the sun, some lemmings would jump at the prospect. That's fine. Let them overcomplicate LCD (with costly FALD implementations) to the point that they can no longer compete on price and form factor. As a former plasma fan, I will consider it comeuppance upon those who have mercilessly exploited a similar competitive manufacturing advantage over the past decade.
video_analysis is offline  
post #13481 of 13485 Old Today, 01:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,183
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Liked: 453
Customers are generally attracted to brighter TV's but I've long suspected only to a point. We're in an era now were pretty much any TV can do 500 nits peak brightness at least. Once you get to that level things like showroom viewing and daytime viewing in living rooms aren't an issue for people anymore, and I think that's when most people stop caring about how much brighter the TV is and only a small percentage of videophiles want some 2000 nit display. You got people in the LCD forum complaining that TV's aren't 4000 nits yet... I can't help but laugh when I read that. My guess is most people don't want a 2000+ nit display in their living room, I really feel like a lot of people would call it over the top and/ or say it hurts their eyes. It will make them uncomfortable. This is one of the reasons I think HDR wont ever be as successful as some people on this site think it will be. 4-5K nits is just insane and the average persons TV will never be that bright. Most normal people want brightness for daytime viewing, not HDR, and if it's good enough to see clearly in the day then they will be very happy.
joys_R_us and video_analysis like this.

Last edited by Vader1; Today at 01:58 AM.
Vader1 is online now  
post #13482 of 13485 Old Today, 05:28 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Wetumpka, AL
Posts: 17,560
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1229 Post(s)
Liked: 542
I think what we're forgetting is that the big number nits that's being discussed only applies to specular highlights using HDR.

That's not how we currently measure standard dynamic range displays.

I prefer a bright picture but even today's LEDs are have to be turned down to get a good picture.

One thing I'd want to take a look at is how OLED displays may or may not distort color at different APL levels. Kind of a big deal when the only way to have linear color tracking is when using an APL level that's darker than what you normally watch.
JimP is online now  
post #13483 of 13485 Old Today, 06:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,929
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2386 Post(s)
Liked: 2184
From the general public's point of view, I truly doubt there's that huge a difference between LCD and OLED. The numbers are awfully close, and while I know that we folks here at AVS somehow think differently, I also think we folks at AVS have succumb to myopic reasoning many times before.

The TV market is driven by ever lower prices. And it will be a long time for OLED to catch up to the volume/learning-curve headstart of LCD. Videophiles aren't interested in lower end TVs. But videophiles simply don't drive the TV market.
Rudy1 likes this.

Thought #AYE: If you choose to buy the very brightest of TVs, are you nitpicking?
tgm1024 is online now  
post #13484 of 13485 Old Today, 09:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
slimoli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: South Florida
Posts: 5,292
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 414 Post(s)
Liked: 198
My point has nothing to do with brightness. I just want a large screen TV, over 80", with very good picture (FALD is OK) that I can afford. An Oled 85" would cost a fortune, that's why I mentioned Sony's decision not being good to me. Almost certainly Sony will show 65" or smaller with OLED tech.

I was so happy without HDR...
slimoli is online now  
post #13485 of 13485 Unread Today, 09:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,929
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2386 Post(s)
Liked: 2184
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimoli View Post
My point has nothing to do with brightness. I just want a large screen TV, over 80", with very good picture (FALD is OK) that I can afford. An Oled 85" would cost a fortune, that's why I mentioned Sony's decision not being good to me. Almost certainly Sony will show 65" or smaller with OLED tech.
Brightness allows for a shortened Sample-and-Hold frame length which decreases motion discomfort. Congruent to that, it also makes it ever more likely that HDR (which requires brightness) can work with a shortened frame length.

Thought #AYE: If you choose to buy the very brightest of TVs, are you nitpicking?
tgm1024 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply OLED Technology and Flat Panels General

Tags
Led Hdtv , Lcd Hdtv , Plasma Hdtv , Oled Tv , Lg , Samsung



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off