OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 466 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13951 of 14241 Old 06-09-2017, 10:53 PM
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"It is clear to me that microLED/CLEDIS and real QLED (which is also micro led I think) is the future. "

Because none of them are real yet, they are certainly not the present.

"No burn-in, probably brighter, probably no ABL"

They are all subject to uneven wear (the correct name for "burn in").

Probably brighter? Eh. Well the future is brighter, whether or not these technologies are part of it.

Probably no ABL? This thing that isn't real might or might not be subject to ABL.

"I'm no expert but the LED are pretty sturdy and inorganic."

Well, I certainly agree with part of that.

"Finally an emissive without IR or burn-in and possibly better durability would be ideal."

It would be. Get something with a multi 100K-hour lifespan and a very shallow brightness decline curve. Bingo.

"Don't know how uniformity would be on these panels though."

Nor does anyone really.

"Makes you wonder if they will release it if it's too good because humans can be stupid like that to make profit."

They sell products that are really good and last long. They charge for them accordingly.

"Can't imagine most people buying 1 tv for 30-40 years. "

I can't imagine most people will buy a TV in 30-40 years. Entire generations are growing up watching video on small, portable screens.
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There's a saying about "everything in moderation". If only it was applied to well, you know...
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post #13952 of 14241 Old 06-09-2017, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post
I can't imagine most people will buy a TV in 30-40 years. Entire generations are growing up watching video on small, portable screens.
And yet Nielsen Finds:

OVER 92% OF ALL ADULT VIEWING IN THE U.S. IS DONE ON THE TV SCREEN.
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post #13953 of 14241 Old 06-10-2017, 04:51 AM
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According this 2015 report 87% of consumers use second screen device while watching TV.
http://www.adweek.com/lostremote/acc...ching-tv/51698

Another 2015 report.. More than three-quarters (88 percent) of millennials* engage in second screen behaviors when watching video content. While television remains the most-preferred device for viewing most video content, screens on other devices (computers, tablets and smartphones) are preferred collectively for watching streamed content (57 percent, 13 points higher than televisions). For most types of video content, millennials are more likely to watch from non-traditional devices (42 percent) compared to adults 35 and older (22 percent).
http://www.businesswire.com/news/hom...Watching-Video

*born between 1980-2000
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post #13954 of 14241 Old 06-10-2017, 08:51 AM
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It is clear to me that microLED/CLEDIS and real QLED (which is also micro led I think) is the future. No burn-in, probably brighter, probably no ABL. I'm no expert but the LED are pretty sturdy and inorganic. We will need to see if the MICRO led are as robust.

I really hope they do it. Finally an emissive without IR or burn-in and possibly better durability would be ideal. Don't know how uniformity would be on these panels though.
All LEDs dim with use. Micro LEDs may dim much more slowly than OLEDs, but they will dim. Maybe it will be so slow that uneven wear will take years to show up with "normal" content, but letterbox, menus, tickers, and banners will still make wear compensation necessary.

If some director decides that 10 seconds of 4000 nit full screen is required, ABL will certainly kick in. That is possibly in kilowatt territory.
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post #13955 of 14241 Old 06-12-2017, 05:16 AM
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For small sizes, perhaps. Whether it can scale to 5 inches well remains uncertain. Whether it ever gets above 10-13 is that much less so.
One can be sure Apple is eyeing watches, activity trackers and similar devices with microdisplays where there is a need to watch in full sunlight. Extrapolating microleds from this to bigger sizes is pure fantasy now. Equally well one could start talking about microLASER displays, imagine microlaser beams piercing the eyes .
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post #13956 of 14241 Old 06-12-2017, 09:37 AM
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As someone who keeps their purchases for a long time, I wonder if I'd be better off waiting until next year to buy an OLED?
I know you can make that argument for every product every year but I really wonder if next years will be substantially better?
I bought a 70" LG last summer with intent to hold it until OLED's at that size or larger hits or goes below ~$2000, and the sooner the better. I think the pent up demand for large screen OLEDs will be enormous with a new fab as they ramp up to sweet spot volumes.

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post #13957 of 14241 Old 06-13-2017, 12:10 AM
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You guys see this article, which states LG is starting test production with RGB printed OLED now, for mass production in 2019? Meanwhile, JOLED recently released their first medical monitors, with promises of larger screen consumer monitors. 2019 is going to be a wild year for OLED, 2018 models are just a stop-gap. I think WOLED is on it's last legs.

http://www.avmagazine.it/news/televi...017_11655.html

BOE is also getting into the OLED panel biz. They're testing 55-inch inkjet OLED panels. Good times.
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post #13958 of 14241 Old 06-13-2017, 07:58 AM
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^^^ Note that article is over 7 months old.
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post #13959 of 14241 Old 06-13-2017, 08:03 AM
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JOLED Ships Samples of Printed 4k OLED Panel

Source: http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/atclen/...5mk/060201373/

JOLED Inc announced that it has developed a printed 4k OLED panel and started to ship samples in April 2017.

JOLED is a company established by integrating the OLED research and development functions of Sony Corp and Panasonic Corp. This time, the company started to ship samples of a 21.6-inch 4k (3,840 x 2,160 pixels) OLED panel. It plans to develop products using the panel, starting from a medical monitor.

At an exhibition that JOLED had May 17, 2017, JOLED CEO Nobuhiro Higashiiriki said that the printed OLED business had been going as planned.

JOLED was established in January 2015. In an interview with Nikkei Electronics in February 2015, Higashiiriki said, "Our goal is to become able to mass-produce the panel by the end of fiscal 2016 (March 2017). The coming two years are crucial."

This time, commenting on the start of the sample shipment, he said, "We have achieved the verification of the commercialization of printed OLED panels two years after the establishment of the company. It is almost on schedule. We will enter an action phase aimed at a full-fledged business."

JOLED's OLED panels are characterized by the employment of "RGB Printing Method," which uses three types of OLED materials (red, green and blue materials) for printing. Unlike a vapor deposition method, which is currently the mainstream, the RGB Printing Method does not require a high-resolution mask for applying different materials and makes it easy to deal with large-size panels.

Also, compared with a method that combines white OLEDs and color filters, which are used for OLED TVs, the new method realizes a lower power consumption because it does not use color filters, according to JOLED.

The challenge of printed OLED displays lies in service life and reliability. At the exhibition, Higashiiriki started a speed by saying, "I expect you to ask questions concerning service life." He announced that the samples are delivered to Sony and said, "The quality of the sample is high enough (to be delivered to a company like Sony). We have achieved that."
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post #13960 of 14241 Old 06-13-2017, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post
^^^ Note that article is over 7 months old.

I know, but somehow I had missed that previously, and I don't think it was mentioned here before.
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post #13961 of 14241 Old 06-13-2017, 10:01 AM
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JOLED Inc announced that it has developed a printed 4k OLED panel and started to ship samples in April 2017.
Yeah, and what's also cool is I found an article that mentioned they were interested in making gaming monitors. If they can get the brightness up to 850nits peak, that could work phenomenally as a FreeSync 2 or G-Sync HDR monitor.

Anyway, I also somehow missed the news that not only is BOE Technology building an OLED factory, but China Star Optoelectronics Technology/TCL are too. CSOT/TCL beginning OLED panel mass production OLED tvs in Q2 2019. 2019 is going to be the year when printed OLED is just unleashed upon the world, and it's going to be worth skipping 2018 models for. I'm guessing TADF emitters could be the OLED upgrade in 2020, and maybe the first 8K OLED tvs by 2021, a year after LCD 8K tvs launch. A bit of speculation, but the 8K LCD thing isn't, the factory is being built, the 8K lcds are 100% coming in 2020. I don't think 8K OLED is coming by then.

The coolest news I've read lately, besides 2019 OLED stuff, is the fact that nanoco and kyulux have joined forces on R&D and are working to co-develop TADF OLED emitters that are infused with heavy metal free nano quantum dots. Hybrid OLED-QLED display technology. Imagine sales reps explaining that to customers if these tvs see the light of day. Rep: "There's QLED and OLED, and then there's the hybrid one that combines both technologies" lol, that won't confuse the seniors and tech newbies ...

http://www.nanocotechnologies.com/me...ation-displays
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post #13962 of 14241 Old 06-13-2017, 08:04 PM
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LGD may employ multi-modal glass to increase the output from the Gen 8 fabs. This would be a major boost to the economics of 65" screens though those hoping for cheap 70"+ screens would still need to wait for the Gen 10.5 fab.

https://translate.google.com/transla...ot1&edit-text=

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post #13963 of 14241 Old 06-14-2017, 07:50 AM
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Very interesting:

Quote:

In the global premium TV market, Sony, which was the so-called "over-the-wall" for the Korean TV industry such as Samsung and LG, has been struggling to enter the LCD era and LED era.

In fact, according to global market researcher IHS, one of the criteria to be classified as premium TV in the TV market of more than $ 1,500, Sony maintained its market share to 13.6% in the first quarter of 2015 and 16.6% in the fourth quarter.

In addition, in 2016, the company kept the second half of the 10% range, including 18.3% in the second quarter and 19.9% ​​in the third quarter, following 17.5% in the first quarter.

On the other hand, LG Electronics' share of LG Electronics grew by 43.8% in the third quarter from 17.6% in the first quarter and 16.6% in the second quarter, from 13.9% in the first quarter of 2015.

During this period, Samsung has risen from 46.2% in the first quarter of 2015 to 55.0% in the second quarter. It has been adjusted to 44.6% in the third quarter and 42.6% in the fourth quarter. In 2016, it reached 39.5% in the first quarter and 39.3% In the third quarter, it rose to 48.2% for a while, but dropped to 20.2% in the fourth quarter.

However, in the first quarter of 2017, Sony's market share surpassed LG with 35.8%, up 39.0%.

Instead, Samsung's share fell to 13.2%.

This trend is similar to the high-end TV market of more than $ 2,500, so Sony's share of the market, which was 14.3% in 2015, jumped to 24.6% in 2015 and soared to 34.4% in the first quarter of this year.

LG, which grew from 21.3% in FY15 to 40.8% in FY16, maintained its top spot with a 40.8% market share in the first quarter.

Instead, Samsung Electronics fell from 54.7% in '15 to 23.4% in '16 and 11.1% in the first quarter.
https://translate.google.de/translat...news%2F4799379
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post #13964 of 14241 Old 06-14-2017, 09:40 AM
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Wow !

Revenge of the creative marketive bluffs like LED and QLED !
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post #13965 of 14241 Old 06-14-2017, 11:28 AM
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Wow !

Revenge of the creative marketive bluffs like LED and QLED !
Don't forget the curve bluff
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post #13966 of 14241 Old 06-15-2017, 12:31 AM
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The last few posts have nothing to do with OLED technology. Find the proper threads for your posts, guys. OLED technology is heading towards the use of true RGB TADF emitter displays, even TADF emitters which use Nano Quantum Dots are being developed. OLED is already brighter than 800nits peak brightness, TADF emitters will hit 1000nits alone, with added QD nano technology it could be 1500nits or more, no one knows. MicroLED technology is what would be conceivably found inside a tv in eight to ten years, but where will OLED and QLED technology be then? 1000nit microLED doesn't cut it, as much HDR content is mastered at 4000nits. Most people can't have a 'tv' that's 20' wide and 12' tall in their living rooms. Your post makes no sense. Even if you could by a 'tv' like this for half a million dollars, you could get a 6000 lumen (= to 1000 nit) 4K projector that does HDR10 and goes up to 300-inch screen, and that would only cost you 60,000, 70,000 with a $10,000 projector screen. On a projector like that, you have lens memory, and you can also add an anamorphic lens. Buying a large tv with a 21:9 ration makes no sense at all, as it can't even display cinemascope films without any black bars.
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post #13968 of 14241 Old 06-21-2017, 09:09 PM
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The VG258QE is a washed out, dirty screen effect, abomination compared to a higher quality cinephile display. I've had one for years alongside HQ IPS's and OLEDs. Motion resolution and input response are great though.

Displays: LG 65" C7 | LG 34UM95 | LG 27UD88 | Asus VG248QE 144Hz | DELL S2240m
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Blu-ray Player: Sony UBP-X800
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post #13969 of 14241 Old 06-22-2017, 03:47 AM
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LGD going to full OLED in P10 factory:

http://businesskorea.co.kr/english/n...roduction-base

And yes there is no money to be made with LCDs in future...
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post #13970 of 14241 Old 06-22-2017, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by joys_R_us View Post
LGD going to full OLED in P10 factory:



http://businesskorea.co.kr/english/n...roduction-base



And yes there is no money to be made with LCDs in future...


What is 8.5 gen OLED vs. 10 gen OLED? (The reference is at the end of the article.)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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post #13971 of 14241 Old 06-22-2017, 08:01 AM
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post #13972 of 14241 Old 06-22-2017, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ataneruo View Post
What is 8.5 gen OLED vs. 10 gen OLED? (The reference is at the end of the article.)


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The numbers refer to the sizes of glass panels used. The producers of the equipment needed cannot deliver new big machinery early enough so that LGD has to go with the current equipment models so that they can step up the production faster. It has a further advantage in using tried and tested procedures which is a big plus in the difficult OLED production.
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post #13973 of 14241 Old 06-22-2017, 10:58 AM
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The numbers refer to the sizes of glass panels used. The producers of the equipment needed cannot deliver new big machinery early enough so that LGD has to go with the current equipment models so that they can step up the production faster. It has a further advantage in using tried and tested procedures which is a big plus in the difficult OLED production.
Apologies if I'm being pedantic, but for the benefit of the questioner, it specifically refers to the size of the glass substrate the panels are cut from. E.g. innolux.com/Pages/EN/Technology/Panel_Size_Evolution_EN.html

Substrate size affects the wastage and yield of good panels. There is a lot of waste for 77" panels currently therefore the yield is low and the prices are disproportionately high.

Another good explanation... blog.ihs.com/lg-display-weighs-options
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post #13974 of 14241 Old 06-22-2017, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davyhulme View Post
Apologies if I'm being pedantic, but for the benefit of the questioner, it specifically refers to the size of the glass substrate the panels are cut from. E.g. innolux.com/Pages/EN/Technology/Panel_Size_Evolution_EN.html

Substrate size affects the wastage and yield of good panels. There is a lot of waste for 77" panels currently therefore the yield is low and the prices are disproportionately high.

Another good explanation... blog.ihs.com/lg-display-weighs-options
Love that article the dropped hint saying Apple was looking at OLED for iPADS. Great way to rejuvenate iPad sales..

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post #13975 of 14241 Old 06-25-2017, 01:25 PM
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post #13976 of 14241 Old 06-25-2017, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
I wouldnt trust any timeline associated with Sharp selling OLED TV's, but the capex that has been quoted ($516 million) indicates that they are planning to build a fab with capacity for commercial production. They announced this at their annual shareholders meeting so that increases the odds of it actually occurring. My belief in their prospects will go up though if/when they announce the size and number of substrates of the fab.

One thing is for sure though, the OLED TV market really needs a second source.
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post #13977 of 14241 Old 06-27-2017, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ataneruo View Post
What is 8.5 gen OLED vs. 10 gen OLED? (The reference is at the end of the article.)


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8.5 is what LG uses today:

6 55"
3 65"
2 77"

10.5 is leading-edge size P10 has been designed to support (eventually)

6 75"
8 65"


This means prices for 65" and especially 77" are not going to be declining as quickly as many had hoped...
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post #13978 of 14241 Old 06-27-2017, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joys_R_us View Post
LGD going to full OLED in P10 factory:

http://businesskorea.co.kr/english/n...roduction-base

And yes there is no money to be made with LCDs in future...
I think I read this as a decision to replace the large-screen LCD capacity that started being talked about in P10 3 months ago with small and medium size OLED screen capacity.

Seems to give LG more flexibility on when the 10.5G OLED production starts since 8.5G is a safe bet schedule-wise at this stage.

So using P10 for 8.5G TV and mid-to-small screen OLED first instead of investing anything further in LCD production seems like a modest-size positive.

The OLED canp withing LG would appear to have won an important debate with the LCD camp as far as the future direction of the company... (though still subject to shareholder approval ).
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post #13979 of 14241 Old 06-27-2017, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joys_R_us View Post
LGD going to full OLED in P10 factory:

http://businesskorea.co.kr/english/n...roduction-base

And yes there is no money to be made with LCDs in future...
Seems yesterday's announcement really wasn't much of a surprise. LG pretty clearly signaled that intention a month ago (with more detail): http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/engli...roduction-base
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post #13980 of 14241 Old 06-28-2017, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
8.5 is what LG uses today:

6 55"
3 65"
2 77"

10.5 is leading-edge size P10 has been designed to support (eventually)

6 75"
8 65"

This means prices for 65" and especially 77" are not going to be declining as quickly as many had hoped...
If adopted, multi-modal glass would help 65" prices substantially. A hypothetical substrate with 100% yields now gives you 6 55" panels. If the ASP of each panel was $1000, the substrate yields $6000. The current alternative is to price 3 65" panels at $2000.

Multi-modal glass would allow you to collect $1000 for the 2 55" cuts and then $1333 for the 3 65" panels and still get $6000 per substrate. That is a huge price reduction for the 65" panel.
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