OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 475 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14221 of 14241 Old 10-14-2017, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by joys_R_us View Post
Nice recap, rogo !

One thing though, afaik LG uses large screen size masks for the oled deposition...?
No they deposit the OLED as an un-patterned layout. It's all stacked, one layer atop the other.

The pixels are made solely via the transistors on the backplane and the way the color filters are cut.

This was a nod to the impossibility of large masks using any known materials.
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post #14222 of 14241 Old 10-14-2017, 01:14 PM
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With Samsung's market share in the premium segment rapidly deteriorating, is it possible they'll adopt OLED sometime soon? If not, why not? Does LG own all the viable tech for manufacturing OLED TVs? Is licensing impossible?

Seems crazy to just sit by and lose the most profitable segment if it's at all possible to turn it around. I know they're betting on microLED but that seems implausible for a TV in, say, 2 or 3 years. In the meantime, other TV makers will adopt OLED panels and Samsung could fall further behind.

Really confused about their thinking here.
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post #14223 of 14241 Old 10-14-2017, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by austinsj View Post
With Samsung's market share in the premium segment rapidly deteriorating, is it possible they'll adopt OLED sometime soon? If not, why not? Does LG own all the viable tech for manufacturing OLED TVs? Is licensing impossible?

Seems crazy to just sit by and lose the most profitable segment if it's at all possible to turn it around. I know they're betting on microLED but that seems implausible for a TV in, say, 2 or 3 years. In the meantime, other TV makers will adopt OLED panels and Samsung could fall further behind.

Really confused about their thinking here.
There was this news that the Samsung CEO resigned and that there might be a fresh start with new perspective...so wait and see what happens. Current direction is all about sticking with Edge Lit LCd no matters what.
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In a statement, the man known as “Mr Chip” said the time had come to “start new with new spirit and young leadership”.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-s...-idUSKBN1CI03P
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post #14224 of 14241 Old 10-15-2017, 02:08 AM
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It's pretty clear that LG has some amount of IP preventing another company (especially one in Korea) from easily duplicating what they've done legally.

It's also pretty clear that Samsung understands it won't catch LG with a me-too technology given LG's (1) formidable lead (2) progress towards completing enough fab capacity toward essentially having majority share of the high end.

This leaves Samsung with a couple of choices:

1) Make LCD better.
2) Make OLEDs using a new, much cheaper, technique such that it can launch them at prices comparable to LG and then lower prices more quickly than LG will.
3) Make another technology work, e.g. emissive quantum dots.

None of these are good choices. No amount of magic hand waving makes them good choices. Ergo, Samsung has a dilemma.
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post #14225 of 14241 Old 10-15-2017, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post
It's pretty clear that LG has some amount of IP preventing another company (especially one in Korea) from easily duplicating what they've done legally.

It's also pretty clear that Samsung understands it won't catch LG with a me-too technology given LG's (1) formidable lead (2) progress towards completing enough fab capacity toward essentially having majority share of the high end.

This leaves Samsung with a couple of choices:

1) Make LCD better.
2) Make OLEDs using a new, much cheaper, technique such that it can launch them at prices comparable to LG and then lower prices more quickly than LG will.
3) Make another technology work, e.g. emissive quantum dots.

None of these are good choices. No amount of magic hand waving makes them good choices. Ergo, Samsung has a dilemma.

Or 4) Do like other brands are doing. Have LG supply OLED panels.
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post #14226 of 14241 Old 10-16-2017, 07:36 AM
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Or 4) Do like other brands are doing. Have LG supply OLED panels.
Except that there is a deep-seated and intense rivalry and animosity between Samsung and LG.

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post #14227 of 14241 Old 10-16-2017, 11:35 AM
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Except that there is a deep-seated and intense rivalry and animosity between Samsung and LG.
Nonsense. Business is business.

"LG Display Co. has scored a deal to supply television displays to rival Samsung Electronics Co. from as soon as this year, people with direct knowledge of the matter said."

"LG Display, a major supplier of panels to Apple Inc., will replace a venture between Sharp Corp. and Foxconn Technology Group as a supplier to the world’s biggest TV maker, said the people, who asked not to be identified because details of their agreement haven’t been released. LG Display and Samsung reiterated comments from earlier this month that they are in talks on LCD supply without elaborating."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...msung-iy9uaj80
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post #14228 of 14241 Old 10-16-2017, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by greenland View Post
Nonsense. Business is business.

"LG Display Co. has scored a deal to supply television displays to rival Samsung Electronics Co. from as soon as this year, people with direct knowledge of the matter said."

"LG Display, a major supplier of panels to Apple Inc., will replace a venture between Sharp Corp. and Foxconn Technology Group as a supplier to the world’s biggest TV maker, said the people, who asked not to be identified because details of their agreement haven’t been released. LG Display and Samsung reiterated comments from earlier this month that they are in talks on LCD supply without elaborating."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...msung-iy9uaj80
The LCd and the OLED situation is different. OLED is a new TV technology and there is only one OLED panel supplier..LG. Plus Samsung came up with their own OLED TV but that didn't work out well. Samsung did not do the obvious which is set their pride aside and start buying OLED panels from LG..they are not ready to do that yet..must be very humiliating...
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post #14229 of 14241 Old 10-16-2017, 01:57 PM
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I think it's absolutely hilarious watching that haughty juggernaut squirming as it bleeds red.
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post #14230 of 14241 Old 10-16-2017, 11:40 PM
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https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/16/...-review-design

Theverge is tearing the OLED display of the new V30 apart. Uniformity problems. Seems like LG has to climb up the learning curve much further. One can clearly see that samsung still has more experience since they are producing OLED for much longer. A shame that they did not opt to license the kodac patents to produce WOLED.
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post #14231 of 14241 Old 10-17-2017, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
The LCd and the OLED situation is different. OLED is a new TV technology and there is only one OLED panel supplier..LG. Plus Samsung came up with their own OLED TV but that didn't work out well. Samsung did not do the obvious which is set their pride aside and start buying OLED panels from LG..they are not ready to do that yet..must be very humiliating...
Samsung does not have an OLED TV panel of their own to market now. LG is already supplying them with LCD panels. LG is also supplying other brand names, Sony Panasonic etc, with OLED TV Panels. I don't know why you feel that Samsung can't obtain them the same way. You have said nothing that makes the case for why they can't.
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post #14232 of 14241 Old 10-17-2017, 03:35 PM
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LG isn't providing them LCDs for their flagship models, however, so it's not a question of can they but rather will they accept such an agreement? The Korean Chaebols tend to be prideful entities and the one that runs Samsung would have to save face after downplaying OLED TVs for 5 years.
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post #14233 of 14241 Old 10-17-2017, 05:34 PM
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Samsung does not have an OLED TV panel of their own to market now. LG is already supplying them with LCD panels. LG is also supplying other brand names, Sony Panasonic etc, with OLED TV Panels. I don't know why you feel that Samsung can't obtain them the same way. You have said nothing that makes the case for why they can't.
I did not say that they can't. I said that the obvious thing to do after the Samsung OLED TV adventure, 2013 KN55S9C, was to buy LG OLED panels instead..maybe even start launching some limited scale models with those panels. They had over three years to do that..has not happened....instead they have been focussing on the LCd QD thing all this time. They are currently unwilling to use OLED TV tech which is not theirs, korean rival LG being the owner of the OLED TV tech that does work certainly complicates things.
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post #14234 of 14241 Old 10-17-2017, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steakhouse_ View Post
https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/16/...-review-design

Theverge is tearing the OLED display of the new V30 apart. Uniformity problems. Seems like LG has to climb up the learning curve much further. One can clearly see that samsung still has more experience since they are producing OLED for much longer. A shame that they did not opt to license the kodac patents to produce WOLED.
For a minute I thought I was reading a review of LG's OLED TVs. Same old problems.

"Areas of the same color on the V30 appear blotchy: when I open up a Google Keep note, I don’t get a flat white canvas as I should, but instead I see streaks of gray, looking as if there’s an inconsistent backlight. This being an OLED display, there’s no backlight to speak of, so it’s just poor brightness uniformity across those light-emitting diodes. The same unhappy effect is even more pronounced with darker grays and colors like navy blue, and it’s amplified by the V30’s apparent inability to render color gradations smoothly. Gradients appear grainy and I see unpleasant color banding, exactly the same issues that Ars Technica encountered with a preproduction V30 device last month."

Google is probably going to have a disaster on their hands in a few days because they went with LG to supply panels for their Pixel2 phones as well.
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post #14235 of 14241 Old 10-17-2017, 09:06 PM
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Aren't mobile OLED displays and TV OLED displays built on different technologies? If not, I don't see why Samsung can't scale up in size.
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post #14236 of 14241 Old Yesterday, 12:11 AM
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Apart from the pride issue, Samsung cannot get enough oled panels from LG as the capacity is constrained, especially now with Sony, Philips, Panasonic also selling oleds..

There is also another issue: You cant fight oled tvs while offering them yourself...

I guess Samsung was hoping for much faster progress with QD and have no quick alternatives at hand now...

Will be interesting to watch. Maybe they deliver a surprise at CES. They must be quite desperate.
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post #14237 of 14241 Old Yesterday, 07:23 AM
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8K-OLED-TV and 80" OLED in 2019 and it seems Samsung using the test from Rtings.com to blame OLED for image retention...

Quote:
Lee emphasized the proliferation of OLED camps, saying, "By region, Europe is up by 38%, North America and Japan by 29%, and China by 10%. . Especially, China plans to increase the OLED experience center to seven regions including Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Shaheen, Nanjing, Qingdao and Shenyang in the world's largest TV market.

"We can clearly see the difference in image quality between OLED and LCD TV," he said. "The company plans to launch 80-inch and 8K OLED TVs in 2019 following 55, 65 and 77-inch UHD (ultra high definition) LG Display plans to release a small (P) (plastic) -old OLED product that will achieve 1.0R (radius of curvature radius of 1mm radius) coming in 2019.

The proportion of OLED sales at LG Display is projected to increase from 5% in 2016 to 50% in 2021, driven by the growth of OLED camps.
https://translate.google.de/translat...02100632038001
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post #14238 of 14241 Old Yesterday, 12:48 PM
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Aren't mobile OLED displays and TV OLED displays built on different technologies? If not, I don't see why Samsung can't scale up in size.
There are some fundamental differences, yes.

Samsung can't scale up in size because its technology doesn't scale up in size.

LG's technology is quite good for making larger screens. For mobile, LG builds them the same way Samsung does, the difference being Samsung has much more experience there.

That's why 100% of iPhone OLEDs will come from Samsung in iPhone X. And why LG's flagship phone falls short (unfortunately).

This has little to do with TV, however.
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post #14239 of 14241 Old Yesterday, 12:56 PM
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I think it's absolutely hilarious watching that haughty juggernaut squirming as it bleeds red.
Apparently, they aren't hemorrhaging as much overall as might be expected:

"The top-ranked television brand in the period continued to be Samsung with 553,735 units sold over the five weeks, according to NPD data shared with us. Vizio ranked third with 406,885 units sold and LG was fourth with 289,034 units sold to consumers. Element, another brand like TCL that is sold heavily through discount chains, ranked fifth. This summer, Element began selling smart TVs with Amazon’s Fire TV platform built-in through such major retail accounts as Amazon, which is now going toe-to-toe with Roku in the integrated smart TV OS space."

https://hdguru.com/tcl-reaches-no-2-...-in-september/

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post #14240 of 14241 Old Yesterday, 01:16 PM
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Yes, it pays to have a marketing presence in stores. The only Best Buy in a 2-hour radius affords them the most demo space. It's the high-end where they have ceded significant marketshare. They are more interested in flinging mud than making a better TV.
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post #14241 of 14241 Old Today, 12:14 PM
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Apparently, they aren't hemorrhaging as much overall as might be expected:

"The top-ranked television brand in the period continued to be Samsung with 553,735 units sold over the five weeks, according to NPD data shared with us. Vizio ranked third with 406,885 units sold and LG was fourth with 289,034 units sold to consumers. Element, another brand like TCL that is sold heavily through discount chains, ranked fifth. This summer, Element began selling smart TVs with Amazon’s Fire TV platform built-in through such major retail accounts as Amazon, which is now going toe-to-toe with Roku in the integrated smart TV OS space."

https://hdguru.com/tcl-reaches-no-2-...-in-september/
This tells you nothing about the high end, where Samsung is most assuredly hemorrhaging market share.
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