LCD or Plasma? Plasma or LCD? and why those Black Bars? Discuss it here only Please - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 1452 Old 12-21-2006, 10:06 AM
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While I was in Best Buy this morning doing a little last minute shopping, I thought I would head over to the flat panel section to give them a view. I thought I would share my observations.

While all of the sets I observed looked pretty good, I understand the discrepancies while making observations in this environment, including calibration, or lack-there-of. This will be a quick, unscientific, perceptual comparison between a 52" LCD (sharp) and 50" plasma(LG), which happened to be beside one another.

IMHO, there seemed to be three main points of notice:
1-The LCD showed very vivid colors, with a tad more 'pop' than did the Plasma, and the LCD blacks were on par with the plasma.
2-The LCD showed a brighter 'white' or a 'whiter' white.
3-The Plasma showed an overall more natural tone and dimensional picture.

The single biggest draw for me was the WOW factor displayed by the dimensionality of the Plasma picture. I kept going back and forth from one to the other to try and put my finger on why this was. Both pictures looked beautiful, but, the LCD(when compared with the Plasma) just looked 2-D'ish to me, or lacking a sense of dimensional field, and I just couldn't ignore the 'looking thru a window' experience of the Plasma.

Despite all the inherent advantages and disadvantages of each technology, I would have to say that I prefer the viewing experience offered by Plasma.
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post #62 of 1452 Old 12-21-2006, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duffybarracuda View Post

I don´t know LCD or Plasma, to me the lcd´s have more advantages but probably the plasma TV- picture is better ??
My wife wants a tv now, but i wanna have a big one

I am between the "Sony 46v2000" LCD

and the "Philps 50PF9631D" Plasma

the Philps is a little bit more expensive, both are well designed, whats important for my wife and the Philips has the bigger screen what is important to me. But plasmas have many disadvantages. I don´t play games and only watch tv over digital satalite.
Well its a hard decission for the next years and i have no plan

sorry, for my bad english

The sets you mention are not addressed in the following article but it may give you some insight. http://www.hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/1106hook/
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post #63 of 1452 Old 12-21-2006, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by fistofsouth View Post

I’m also trying to figure out how a set with a resolution of 1024x768 qualifies as HD. I guess it qualifies because all the Plasma manufacturers got together and decided it qualifies. Still, last I checked 1280x720 is the minimum resolution for High Definition.


I too have wonderd this?? can anyone here shed some light on this? how is 1024x768 HD??
also could anyone see the difference between a 1280x720 vs 1024x768 set?
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post #64 of 1452 Old 12-21-2006, 04:57 PM
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Its trickery and skulduggery!

Nahh - Plasmas are apparently easier to manufacturer in funky reoslutions, with rectangular pixels, and so it is. In fact, some brands even have 1024x1024 screens, and others have 1024x1080, and call it near-TrueHD!

Even as a staunch LCD proponent, I have to admit that these funky resolutions compel (the better) plasma manufacturers to include great (on the whole) scaling solutions to NOT dmiinish most viewers' enjoyment of HD 720P and 1080i content.

With 1080P content becoming more common, though, and more folks wanting to use their TVs for PC usage, and not wanting rectangular pixels, I see LCDs' popularity rising until TRUE 1080P plasmas become commonplace and cheaper

*ashu*
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post #65 of 1452 Old 12-22-2006, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashutoshsm View Post

Its trickery and skulduggery!

Nahh - Plasmas are apparently easier to manufacturer in funky reoslutions, with rectangular pixels, and so it is. In fact, some brands even have 1024x1024 screens, and others have 1024x1080, and call it near-TrueHD!

Even as a staunch LCD proponent, I have to admit that these funky resolutions compel (the better) plasma manufacturers to include great (on the whole) scaling solutions to NOT dmiinish most viewers' enjoyment of HD 720P and 1080i content.

With 1080P content becoming more common, though, and more folks wanting to use their TVs for PC usage, and not wanting rectangular pixels, I see LCDs' popularity rising until TRUE 1080P plasmas become commonplace and cheaper

The 1024x768 thing has always bothered me. To my eyes a 1024x768 Plasma looks just as high def as a 1366x768 LCD, but it bothers me. I've been looking forward to HD since Japan started using the MUSE system in the eighties. That entire time HD has been defined as at least 1035i and the lowest HD standard authorized by the ATSC is 1280x720. That being the case I want at least 1280x720 or it will bother me. I know the 1024x768 Plasma looks just as good (and in most cases better) than the 1366x768 LCD just like I know that my car runs pretty much the same clean or dirty. Still when I watch a 1024x768 Plasma I'm not really watching HD and it bothers me the same way driving a dirty car bothers me. A car with a fresh coat of wax may perform the same as it did before it was clean, but they always seem faster to me and virtually every 37 and 42 Plasma seems to have less detail than their 37 and 40 LCD counterparts.

The odd plasma resolutions can be a bother, but so long as they are greater than 1280x720 (say 1080x1024) I'm ok with it. 1080x1024 may be a crazy resolution, but it's over a mega-pixel (1,105,920) and since 720P is less than a mega-pixel (921,600) anything over that resolution qualifies as High Def in my mind. Still I am curious to see what kind of performance one gets from a 1080x1024 Plasma when using as a computer monitor, which is why I'm a regular fan of the Hitachi Plasma thread.

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." - Benjamin Franklin
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post #66 of 1452 Old 12-22-2006, 08:25 PM
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I just wish someone would come out with a 960p set so SD would look good because of the perfect multiple.
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post #67 of 1452 Old 12-22-2006, 09:22 PM
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The way I see it this way, are you using a Plasma right now as a PC Monitor or are you using LCD Monitor instead? I like the fact that LCD HDTV brighter and sharper but doesn't have the glare I see in Plasma HDTV.

Plasma gives off a lot of heat, but don't be fooled into thinking that the LCD HDTV doesn't do the same it does but not as much, so you can't use it as a heater for you room at night.
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post #68 of 1452 Old 12-23-2006, 11:09 PM
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To all of you Plasma owners, stop regreting that you did not buy a new LCD. LCD is the future. Face it, Plasma will never be true HD. Before LCD came out with a larger size tv, Plasma was king. But now that LCD came out with faster ms, brighter and bigger sets, LCD is the KING!
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post #69 of 1452 Old 12-24-2006, 10:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mrsdrgn View Post

To all of you Plasma owners, stop regreting that you did not buy a new LCD. LCD is the future. Face it, Plasma will never be true HD. Before LCD came out with a larger size tv, Plasma was king. But now that LCD came out with faster ms, brighter and bigger sets, LCD is the KING!

These types of posts are nonsense. Please, if you have nothing constructive to post, don't post anything at all. A statement like "Plasma will never be true HD" just shows your ignorance and lack of education on the topic.
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post #70 of 1452 Old 12-24-2006, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by instantpop View Post

These types of posts are nonsense. Please, if you have nothing constructive to post, don't post anything at all. A statement like "Plasma will never be true HD" just shows your ignorance and lack of education on the topic.


It was his second post so he is still in his "break in period." ....I agree though....just trying to decide on which direction I want to go, plazma or LCD and have to trip over the useless text some people offer up. Why does it matter if you have a LCD and another likes plasma better? I personally don't give a flyin' ___ if you like what I have or not. May be a little insecurity going on?

....now back to the virtues of each......
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post #71 of 1452 Old 12-24-2006, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by instantpop View Post

These types of posts are nonsense. Please, if you have nothing constructive to post, don't post anything at all. A statement like "Plasma will never be true HD" just shows your ignorance and lack of education on the topic.

If you read any of the PC/gaming forums his attitude is pretty typical of that crowd. If you don't read those forums you'd be shocked how many believe you need to recharge plasmas periodically. That they have a short life span and they are plagued by burn in problems. These are the same people who think it is ultra cool to buy a 37 to 42 inch LCD, put it on their desktop and use it as a PC monitor. The kiddie crowd is not to be taken seriously.
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post #72 of 1452 Old 12-24-2006, 07:02 PM
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That's why my parents generation use to say "children are meant to be seen and not heard". When they interupt an adult conversation you just have to smile, ignore and go on.
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post #73 of 1452 Old 12-24-2006, 07:13 PM
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Which is why they created the dedicated LCD forum so the little brats will go bug the LCD wackos.

My HT

In the words of English philosopher Edmund Burke, ÂAll that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.Â
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post #74 of 1452 Old 12-24-2006, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Elemental1 View Post

Which is why they created the dedicated LCD forum so the little brats will go bug the LCD wackos.

The only thing that worries me is that the buggers are buying a ton of LCDs and care only about three things.....price, response time, and 1080p. Picture quality is irrelevant because they don't distinguish between broadcast image quality and static image quality. You know, if a JPG looks pretty much the same from one monitor to the next then why should an HD broadcast be any different. Also, when you're gaming on an LCD you really don't care much about flesh tones and shadow detail. You do care about the response rate though. Hopefully all this won't lower the quality standards of flat panel LCDs for everyone. There is already alot of junk on the market as it stands now.
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post #75 of 1452 Old 12-24-2006, 07:47 PM
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I'd get a plasma in a second if the possibility of burn-in was non-existent.

It's hard to get over the lower resolutions of your typical plasma, but ultimately, it is irrelevant because you will be watching something with a superior contrast ratio, which is what really matters...

Though if PC usage is your thing, LCD all the way.
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post #76 of 1452 Old 12-24-2006, 07:54 PM
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It is practically non existent unless you abuse your TV when you first buy it.

Regarding resolutions, I have no problems on my 50 inch HD Panny plasma. And I have a 360 connected to it.

If PC usage is your thing then you really shouldn't even be considering a plasma. These are *televisions*, remember?
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post #77 of 1452 Old 12-26-2006, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobester View Post

That's why my parents generation use to say "children are meant to be seen and not heard". When they interupt an adult conversation you just have to smile, ignore and go on.


Reminds me of a great quote from "The Godfather":

I have a sentimental weakness for my children, and I spoil them as you can see; they talk when they should listen.
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post #78 of 1452 Old 12-26-2006, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by DanP View Post

If you read any of the PC/gaming forums his attitude is pretty typical of that crowd. If you don't read those forums you'd be shocked how many believe you need to recharge plasmas periodically. That they have a short life span and they are plagued by burn in problems. These are the same people who think it is ultra cool to buy a 37 to 42 inch LCD, put it on their desktop and use it as a PC monitor. The kiddie crowd is not to be taken seriously.


Ironically, even the hard-core gamers have to admit that CRTs beat LCDs for gaming. Anyway, LCDs, CRTs, Plasmas, Rear Projection, Front Projection, whatever - they each have their pros and cons. Just figure out what you want/need - the choice becomes pretty obvious.
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post #79 of 1452 Old 12-26-2006, 02:04 PM
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I'm looking to go buy a nice 37" Plasma or LCD tv in the coming weeks. I'm having a hard time deciding which of the two technologies is right for me.

DLP has the advantage of better contrast, more vibrant colors.

LCD has the advantage of less power consumption, no burn-in worries, and glare is much less of an issue.

I like to watch movies so the plasma would be better there, but I also do some amount of gaming, and I don't want to have to always worry about burn-in, which also could occur from watching SD tv with the black bars on the side of the screen. Also it would be in a room next to a large sliding glass door, so the glare is an issue too.

So any thoughts? The pic quality is really nice on the plasma, but I wouldn't want to always have to worry about burn-in. I've read that it's not much of an issue with new high-end plasmas, but I probably would be getting a lower end one.
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post #80 of 1452 Old 12-26-2006, 03:05 PM
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I've never seen anyone mention this but I can always tell I"m watching a plasma because of the weird blocking effect that happens when there's motion on the TV.

Maybe it only bothers me?
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post #81 of 1452 Old 12-26-2006, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueWRXPride View Post

I'm looking to go buy a nice 37" Plasma or LCD tv in the coming weeks. I'm having a hard time deciding which of the two technologies is right for me.

DLP has the advantage of better contrast, more vibrant colors.

LCD has the advantage of less power consumption, no burn-in worries, and glare is much less of an issue.

I like to watch movies so the plasma would be better there, but I also do some amount of gaming, and I don't want to have to always worry about burn-in, which also could occur from watching SD tv with the black bars on the side of the screen. Also it would be in a room next to a large sliding glass door, so the glare is an issue too.

So any thoughts? The pic quality is really nice on the plasma, but I wouldn't want to always have to worry about burn-in. I've read that it's not much of an issue with new high-end plasmas, but I probably would be getting a lower end one.


I assume you mean PDP (plasma) not DLP (front and rear projection). As for gaming, plasma owners (myself included) will say that gaming on a plasma is fine, if you limit the use of HUDs and black bars. SD viewing with side black bars is not recommended - high end plasma or not. Plasma does have problems with glare, especially if you are going to use in the daytime and can't control the lighting. Given your situation, I would recommend going with LCD. It is a better all-around solution, while the Plasma is the best dark room / movie watching option.
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post #82 of 1452 Old 12-26-2006, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Tigershark View Post

I assume you mean PDP (plasma) not DLP (front and rear projection). As for gaming, plasma owners (myself included) will say that gaming on a plasma is fine, if you limit the use of HUDs and black bars. SD viewing with side black bars is not recommended - high end plasma or not. Plasma does have problems with glare, especially if you are going to use in the daytime and can't control the lighting. Given your situation, I would recommend going with LCD. It is a better all-around solution, while the Plasma is the best dark room / movie watching option.

Yes, i meant plasma, not dlp. Oops. Yeah, i'm thinking LCD is best for me, so I don't have to subconsciously worry about image retention or burn in based on my viewing habits. Do you need to break in an LCD at all?

Also, even though the plasma might look a little better in the store, when it's in my house, and there's nothing else to compare it too, it'll look just as stunning to me.
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post #83 of 1452 Old 12-26-2006, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Tigershark View Post

I assume you mean PDP (plasma) not DLP (front and rear projection). As for gaming, plasma owners (myself included) will say that gaming on a plasma is fine, if you limit the use of HUDs and black bars. SD viewing with side black bars is not recommended - high end plasma or not. Plasma does have problems with glare, especially if you are going to use in the daytime and can't control the lighting. Given your situation, I would recommend going with LCD. It is a better all-around solution, while the Plasma is the best dark room / movie watching option.

Agreed. I have an Xbox 360 connected to my 50" Panny plasma. I don't know how many hours I've logged....either one gazillion or two gazillion but there has never been a problem with burn in or image retention for that matter. Of course, the 360 games fill your screen so there are no black bars to worry about.

Yes glare is an issue. But when I bought the TV a year and a half ago, it was the best decision for me. I had considered rear projection LCDs but there was the issue of SDE and crushed blacks. DLPs give me headaches. LCD flat panels were just too expensive to consider. Not to mention that I wanted at least 50 inches and those are still rare. But on top of all that the plasma PQ at the time was tops IMO, and by a wide margin. Today, if I were to buy a new TV I would take a closer look at the LCD flat panels but it needs to be at least 50 inches and there can't be any response issues for my gaming addiction.
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post #84 of 1452 Old 12-27-2006, 10:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelvin96gsr View Post

I've never seen anyone mention this but I can always tell I"m watching a plasma because of the weird blocking effect that happens when there's motion on the TV.

Maybe it only bothers me?

The blocking you see has nothing to do with the plasma, but with the cable or dish source connected to it. You are seeing the compression of the signal being fed to the plasma display. I, too, see the blocking when watching my cable feed, but certainly not while I am gaming or watching a movie.
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post #85 of 1452 Old 12-27-2006, 03:21 PM
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I noticed that blocking on a Pioneer plasma when visiting a friend. I think he was on directv. Is that blocking going to be more noticeable on plasma than on lcd? I have a 60" Sony a2000 hooked to dish and have never seen it. I am going to purchase a second high def for a smaller room and need a flat panel for it so I too have been anguishing over the pros and cons of plasma vs lcd.
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post #86 of 1452 Old 12-27-2006, 04:10 PM
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In Plasma's defense, DTV's HD is merely HD-Lite and inferior to even Dish's so-so HD. Which is inferior to Cable's (usually) substantially better HD. Which is ifnerior to OTA HD (for the few channels that exist and can be received OTA).

That may have influenced the perceived lack of quality of the HD transmission you viewed on your friend's plasma. In addition, lighting, settings, quality, age of display (all of the above, relative t your own setup/display) would also have a strong influence. Not a very controlled comparison.

Side-by-side, I imagine even I would enjoy a Plasma better for HD/movie sources, except for 1080p sources (including my HTPC). It helped that I can't tolerate non-OAR (Original Aspect Ratio) and intended to watch all 4:3 SD content with side-black-bars from day one, or face the onset of insanity! If I couldn't do justice to wearing-in a Plasma, perhaps it wasn't the right tech. for me!

And so LCD was the right choice for ME.

All I'm saying is, this Holy War is thoroughly pointless!

*ashu*
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post #87 of 1452 Old 12-27-2006, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ashutoshsm View Post

In Plasma's defense, DTV's HD is merely HD-Lite and inferior to even Dish's so-so HD. Which is inferior to Cable's (usually) substantially better HD. Which is ifnerior to OTA HD (for the few channels that exist and can be received OTA).

That may have influenced the perceived lack of quality of the HD transmission you viewed on your friend's plasma. In addition, lighting, settings, quality, age of display (all of the above, relative t your own setup/display) would also have a strong influence. Not a very controlled comparison.

Side-by-side, I imagine even I would enjoy a Plasma better for HD/movie sources, except for 1080p sources (including my HTPC). It helped that I can't tolerate non-OAR (Original Aspect Ratio) and intended to watch all 4:3 SD content with side-black-bars from day one, or face the onset of insanity! If I couldn't do justice to wearing-in a Plasma, perhaps it wasn't the right tech. for me!

And so LCD was the right choice for ME.

All I'm saying is, this Holy War is thoroughly pointless!

I have Dish and the Dish HD DVR (vip-622). The DVR also has a working OTA input. I can tell no difference between the OTA HD signal and the 'compressed' HD-Lite signal (as you put it). I switch back and forth sometimes I think one is better than the other, switch back and forth some more, and then conclude that I am not really seeing any difference than can be termed 'better' or 'worse.' And I'm seeing all of this on a 50 inch Panasonic plasma.
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post #88 of 1452 Old 12-27-2006, 10:23 PM
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I just bought the LG 42" Plasma 42PC1DA and I LOVE IT! The picture is awesome, I love everthing about it BUT, I am very nervous about the IR/Burn in issues. I have around 100 hours into it, and still see some slight IR when a bright menu item or something comes up. Nothing major. I am very nervous to watch anything 4:3 because of the bars, and I am worried I will be like this for the next 5-7 years that I plan to keep this thing. Should I switch to LCD, or am I just experiencing normal jitters of 1st time plasma owners?
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post #89 of 1452 Old 12-28-2006, 01:36 AM
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Here is my situation. I bought the Panny 50 from Costco. Plug the Zenith 318 to the plasma with upconverted to 1080i. The picture do not fill the whole TV, there was 3/4" of black bar on the right side. I didn't notice this after a day or so. I switched the Zenith 318 to 480p and the picture fill up the whole screen.

Here is my problem, after watching any dvd thru 480p there is a LIGHT SHADOW LINE shown where the 3/4" black bar was at the right side. I assume this is the burn-in issue everyone is talking about. After a month of watching and hoping it would go away but it was still there and it was driving me crazy. I returned it to Costco - thank heaven for their return policy. Now, I am thinking of going with LCD but havn't finalize the decision yet.
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post #90 of 1452 Old 12-28-2006, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilight View Post

Here is my situation. I bought the Panny 50 from Costco. Plug the Zenith 318 to the plasma with upconverted to 1080i. The picture do not fill the whole TV, there was 3/4" of black bar on the right side. I didn't notice this after a day or so. I switched the Zenith 318 to 480p and the picture fill up the whole screen.

Here is my problem, after watching any dvd thru 480p there is a LIGHT SHADOW LINE shown where the 3/4" black bar was at the right side. I assume this is the burn-in issue everyone is talking about. After a month of watching and hoping it would go away but it was still there and it was driving me crazy. I returned it to Costco - thank heaven for their return policy. Now, I am thinking of going with LCD but havn't finalize the decision yet.


Something was wrong with either the plasma or Zenith - there should have been no black space anywhere with a proper 1.78:1 or 1.85:1 DVD. Definitely not on just one side! That being said, after just a day or so shouldn't have caused permanent burn-in like you described, unless you left it on the "Vivid setting" with the brightness and contrast too high (and even then maybe not).

A properly treated modern plasma should have no burn in (image retention yes, burn in no). You were right to return it.
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