LCD or Plasma? Plasma or LCD? and why those Black Bars? Discuss it here only Please - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 1452 Old 12-31-2009, 05:55 PM
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what does TIR or IR stand for? [edit: i found this - image retention]

what does "break-in slide thing" mean?

sorry, still haven't learned enough on plasmas... researching!

Quote:
Originally Posted by drfreeman60 View Post

pog0

I had a Panasonic 42" plasma for three years and never suffered from any IR or burn in. Made sure that I watched everything in FULL or one of the Zoom modes for the first week or two (probably 100 hours), never worried after that.

Currently have a newer Panasonic and this time paid more attention for the first 300 hours including doing the break-in slide thing. That was just me being anal.

Samsung is supposed to be slightly more prone to IR than Panasonic or Pioneer, but from what I have read, no personal experience, this goes away or reduces greatly after about the 300 hour mark.

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post #992 of 1452 Old 12-31-2009, 09:34 PM
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pearlbluevtx

Image retention is when you continue to see part of a static image that was previously on the screen. ex. playing a game with a static scoreboard. If you do this for three or four hours, especially when new, the image of the static image may (not always) stay on the screen for a short while after changing to something else. Most noticeable on solid light or dark background. Will go away in several minutes to several hours. As the phosphors age, this tendency will decrease or go away. LCD's have this tendency also, but not nearly as often. CRT's were much worse about these things. I am on my second plasma and have never had on either. Also, we have seven plasmas at my office that have static images 24/7. IR is either not visible or goes away in only a few minutes if we change to a presentation or video.

what does "break-in slide thing" mean?

In the plasma thread, there is a link to break-in slides (solid colors) that many users use to harden the phosphors on their plasma when new. The primary reason for this is to have the plasma in a broken-in condition, prior to a professional calibration. The phospors age and will look better at increments of 25-50 hours during the first 150-200 hours of operation. The solid color slides age all of the phosphors evenly. This also is supposed to help prevent IR or burn-in. On my new Panasonic V10, I did the break-in slides for about six hours per day mixed with about 3-4 hours of normal viewing.



sorry, still haven't learned enough on plasmas... researching![/quote]

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post #993 of 1452 Old 12-31-2009, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pearlbluevtx View Post

david: can you explain more what you mean on the "... be aware of avoiding less than full screen output for the first 100-150 hours (maybe two weeks)."

I'm not sure what you mean by this and haven't ever had a plasma but researching this info now to see about buying a 46" to 55" LCD or 50"-58" Plasma...

TIA

The idea here is to avoid the side bars associated with 4:3 content and the top and bottom bars of 2:35 wide screen content. Most sets have a FULL / STRETCH / ZOOM / JUSTIFY mode that can expand the image to avoid this.

For the dollars, you should be able to get a lot more screen for your money with plasma. I have both in my home. Would not consider the LCD's suitable for Blu-Ray or Sports in the family room due to issues with off-angle viewing. For single viewing, on-center, they are perfectly acceptable.

Consider buying the largest screen you can afford and that will fit your living environment. I purchased a 50" last summer and unfortunately it shrunk. Couldn't purchase a larger unit anyway as my wife dictates that our television must live in a little house of its own with doors on the front. 50" was the absolute largest I could fit in the cabinet.

Am on the lookout for a cabinet to pass her approval that will house a 65". Possible for 2012.

David Freeman
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post #994 of 1452 Old 01-01-2010, 03:09 AM
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^ Just a note, drfreeman60. Your responses in blue are pretty much impossible to read against the black background a lot of us use. I had to highlight your posts to be able to read them.

The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out.
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post #995 of 1452 Old 01-01-2010, 04:53 AM
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So guys do you think the samsung pn50b450 would be a decent tv for tv shows on dvd the odd bluray and ps3 gaming?
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post #996 of 1452 Old 01-01-2010, 08:53 AM
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thanks david. good explanations & appreciate the comments.

your wife & my wife must have the same mindset - our tv in our living-family room has to be hidden as well! I overbuilt the cabinet so it could house a 50" DLP (sammy) - which died a year+ ago - (replaced it with a 46" Samsung toc LCD). I do miss the cabinet being completely filled up with the screen but it is nice to be able to move the LCD around the cabinet & get to the side/back if needed! In my case, the cabinet controls everything -- and it's not going anywhere soon!

Again, appreciate the comments... wife & I are heading to BB in a while to start looking at Plasmas (as I hadn't had them on my list previously - at all!). Seriously considering 50" to 58" Panasonics from S G V series.

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Originally Posted by drfreeman60 View Post

The idea here is to avoid the side bars associated with 4:3 content and the top and bottom bars of 2:35 wide screen content. Most sets have a FULL / STRETCH / ZOOM / JUSTIFY mode that can expand the image to avoid this.

For the dollars, you should be able to get a lot more screen for your money with plasma. I have both in my home. Would not consider the LCD's suitable for Blu-Ray or Sports in the family room due to issues with off-angle viewing. For single viewing, on-center, they are perfectly acceptable.

Consider buying the largest screen you can afford and that will fit your living environment. I purchased a 50" last summer and unfortunately it shrunk. Couldn't purchase a larger unit anyway as my wife dictates that our television must live in a little house of its own with doors on the front. 50" was the absolute largest I could fit in the cabinet.

Am on the lookout for a cabinet to pass her approval that will house a 65". Possible for 2012.

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post #997 of 1452 Old 01-01-2010, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye911 View Post

^ Just a note, drfreeman60. Your responses in blue are pretty much impossible to read against the black background a lot of us use. I had to highlight your posts to be able to read them.

Didn't realize. Probably not a lot worth reading from me, but I will try to use just the standard colors in the future.

Except for maybe the one or two times that I really think I am right about something and want to make a point. Just won't use the blue for that.

David Freeman
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post #998 of 1452 Old 01-01-2010, 08:06 PM
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I was thinking about purchasing LCD since I thought they were better than plasma but after reading this thread I now changed my mind.

It seems that most people like Panasonic G10 or G15 so I am considering these. I will purchase either 46 or 50 for my bedroom. Can someone tell me the difference between the G10 and G15 so I can make a more informed purchase? Thanks.

PS, I will be using this TV to view mostly standard broadcast TV programs if that will make any difference between LCD and Plasma.
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post #999 of 1452 Old 01-02-2010, 03:03 PM
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G10 and G15 use the same panel and same electronics. The G15 case is a little slimmer. The G15, I believe, was designed to be marketed in up-market/boutique type retailers where the G10 was for mass market retailers like BB, Sears, etc.

My personal opinion is that broadcast, either OTA/Cable/satellite, looks better on plasma. I know there are many out there who would argue the point.

I have both technologies in my house. 50" plasma in the family room for general TV watching. Three 32" LCD's in bedrooms and my home office. I wanted to put my former 42" plasma in either the master bedroom or the office. Tried it and the television picture looked outstanding. Not just because it was larger, but because it stayed the same as you moved off angle. However, my better half, felt anything larger than the LCD's currently in place looked too large on the wall. Oh well.

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post #1000 of 1452 Old 01-03-2010, 10:42 AM
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Hi guys

I just ordered Samsung LN52B750 with 3 years interest free financing from Amazon last night and AFTER placing my order I stumbled upon a thread on other forums where most of the people were agreeing that Plasma sets are better these days. I went to Best Buy and checked out LN52B750 set and I loved the PQ of it but I haven't even looked at any Plasma sets and even if I did I'm sure they weren't calibrated correctly.

Now my question is.. did I make a big mistake of buying the Sammy LCD? I currently have Sharp Aquos LC42D62U 42-Inch 1080p LCD and I mainly use it for movies and playing Modern Warfare 2 on Xbox 360. I am not a big video quality freak but I want to see a nice improvement over my old Sharp set.
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post #1001 of 1452 Old 01-03-2010, 03:37 PM
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I'm probably months away from making a new purchase but I was absolutely shocked by how bad every plasma I've seen has looked. I've been to four different stores from big box to specialty shops and plasmas always have dull grey whites. Two of the stores had what I would consider poor lighting conditions that were too bright but the others had overhead lights turned off and fairly subdued lighting. Even in the lower light settings the plasmas couldn't create whites that actually looked white. Hockey rinks were light grey and white lettering was anything but.

After all the amazing reviews of the Panasonic plasmas I was really blown away by the fact that they couldn't seem to create a nice bright white color. Perhaps I shouldn't say the couldn't but the displays I saw were all less than impressive from that standpoint. Did I happen to see poorly calibrated plasma sets or can they actually not produce white whites? I have the feeling there wouldn't be so many positive reviews of these TV's if what I've seen is the norm.
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post #1002 of 1452 Old 01-03-2010, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roobieroo View Post

I'm probably months away from making a new purchase but I was absolutely shocked by how bad every plasma I've seen has looked. I've been to four different stores from big box to specialty shops and plasmas always have dull grey whites. Two of the stores had what I would consider poor lighting conditions that were too bright but the others had overhead lights turned off and fairly subdued lighting. Even in the lower light settings the plasmas couldn't create whites that actually looked white. Hockey rinks were light grey and white lettering was anything but.

After all the amazing reviews of the Panasonic plasmas I was really blown away by the fact that they couldn't seem to create a nice bright white color. Perhaps I shouldn't say the couldn't but the displays I saw were all less than impressive from that standpoint. Did I happen to see poorly calibrated plasma sets or can they actually not produce white whites? I have the feeling there wouldn't be so many positive reviews of these TV's if what I've seen is the norm.

There are a number of factors at work here. If you are looking at a display that is mostly white, automatic brightness limiting could be kicking in which lowers the brightness of the screen. I have read from hockey and winter sports fans that they feel the whites look gray on plasmas. I have both plasma and LCD in my home and the whites look pretty much the same on all. However, while not professionally calirated, all are set to pretty much natural settings via Digital Video Essentials. If I leave the LCD sets on their factory settings or change my plasma to Vivid, the whites are much, much whiter. Way too white for my eyes. White enough and bright enough to give me a headache. However, I know that many people prefer this look. It definitely draws your attention to the set when looking at them in a store.

I know that most of my friends, and possibly they are all being polite, comment that my plasma looks better than almost any TV they have seen in someone's home, including their own. This group, who we share meals and sporting events with, is just about evenly divided between plasma and LCD owners. The plasma owners either asked my advice or read reviews or these forums on-line and made their decisions accordingly. The LCD owners were either convinced by their eyes (mostly at Best Buy) or by salesmen that LCD was a more progressive route to go. About half of these willingly admit that they wish they had purchased plasma. Number one complaint with the LCD's is off-angle viewing. Two have very high dollar LED backlit LCD's that actually have an excellent picture when you are directly on-axis. However, both sets show marked change in color and black levels as you move off axis. And none are using anywhere near the ultra-bright settings that you see in stores.

LCD and Plasma both have positive and negative attributes. For my viewing environment and viewing content, plasma suits my needs better for the family room where me, my wife, our son and his family and friends watch a great deal of TV together. However, in my home office where I use both a 24" professional LCD monitor and 32" 1080p LCD television for reviewing things for work, LCD is preferred.

Just select the unit that will best suit your needs. And read reviews here, CNET, Home Theater and make the best selection for your personal needs.

David Freeman
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post #1003 of 1452 Old 01-03-2010, 07:22 PM
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Hi, I'm a newbie, but I've read this entire thread and would like advice on my personal buying situation:

I've got my heart set on a 50"-55" inch model, and have waffled between plasma and LCD (leaning LCD at this point). I already own a Panasonic 42" plasma, circa-2007, and love it. Here's the setup the new tv will go into:

1) Where the tv will be mounted will directly faced a large window in the room which it will reside. There are blinds on this window, but the point of screen glare certainly comes into play here. For this reason, I lean LCD, but the models I've looked at (Samsung B650, Toshiba) have a glossy screen. Sammy B750 and Sony don't.

2) I'm going to be using the tv in order of use: 1) sports games, 2) movies, 3) ps3+blu-ray (occasional gaming)

Plasma considerations: Panny 54" models: 54S1 and 54G10
LCD considerations: 55" Samsung B650, LN52B750, Sony 52" V or W 5100 and Toshiba 55VZ650U

Plasma or LCD?

Thanks!
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post #1004 of 1452 Old 01-04-2010, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnnat View Post

Hi, I'm a newbie, but I've read this entire thread and would like advice on my personal buying situation:

I've got my heart set on a 50"-55" inch model, and have waffled between plasma and LCD (leaning LCD at this point). I already own a Panasonic 42" plasma, circa-2007, and love it. Here's the setup the new tv will go into:

1) Where the tv will be mounted will directly faced a large window in the room which it will reside. There are blinds on this window, but the point of screen glare certainly comes into play here. For this reason, I lean LCD, but the models I've looked at (Samsung B650, Toshiba) have a glossy screen. Sammy B750 and Sony don't.

2) I'm going to be using the tv in order of use: 1) sports games, 2) movies, 3) ps3+blu-ray (occasional gaming)

Plasma considerations: Panny 54" models: 54S1 and 54G10
LCD considerations: 55" Samsung B650, LN52B750, Sony 52" V or W 5100 and Toshiba 55VZ650U

Plasma or LCD?

Thanks!

With direct sunlight on the screen, that make both choices tough. I have lots of light and too many windows, but they are all at angles to my plasma, so I never have issues, even during the day.

If you have fears that a glossy screen, like your current plasma, would not work well in your room, stay away from the glossy screen LCD's. They actually seem to do worse with direct sunlight and reflections than plasmas.

If you are planning on a lot of daytime viewing in your worst case scenario above, stay with a matte screen LCD. However, matte screen LCD's have a tendency to fade under direct sun and reflections also. Instead of reflecting the image back at you, it reflects a lot of smaller images in all directions. Easier for most people to watch, but blacks will wash out and colors will appear saturated. With a lot of LCD's this is exacerbated by off-angle viewing issues.

Back in the 70's and 80's I used to do custom hi-fi installations. Customer is always right, so I did my best to get the most accurate sound where the customer wanted his equipment. I have a wife and I know that WAF comes into play with every new audio or video component I consider.

However, if there was something about a customers setup that would extremely diminish the sound quality, I would suggest or even push hard for a change. When I explained things, and especially if I could do a temporary setup and let them hear the differences, many reconsidered and the entire setup ended up being more synergistic for their listening and viewing experience. This was the early days of laser discs and VCR's and many were incorporating sound into their TV viewing for the first time.

Saying all of that, have you considered any other setup that would not have direct sunlight on your set. I have helped numerous friends, co-workers and family setup HDTV in their homes. I have had quite a few wish to place the TV over the fireplace (including my son). If you have done much reading, you may already know that is one of the worst locations for general viewing you can select. Some were willing to change, some were not.

Bottom line, no good solution for direct sun light. Matte sceen LCD probably better than the other alternatives.

David Freeman
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post #1005 of 1452 Old 01-04-2010, 12:58 PM
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David-

Totally here what you're saying. Unfortunately, and mainly due to behind the wall access, etc. it's going to much easier to proceed as planned and mount the tv as mentioned. I believe the room is 20x16, but where I want to mount it gives me direct access behind the wall. I'm planning on a tilt mount, and/or replacing the blinds to a darker shade.

Thanks very much for your input!
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post #1006 of 1452 Old 01-08-2010, 01:00 PM
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52B750 is probably the best CCFL LCD TV outthere and I think you will like it. Before you take it for granted that plasma is better than lcd, I suggest you to go to the neighboring plasma board and check out the massive "IR/burn-in" thread and "G10 black level doubled" thread. Give yourself sometime to read through those real-life stories and then make your purchase decision. just my 2 cents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninor View Post

Hi guys

I just ordered Samsung LN52B750 with 3 years interest free financing from Amazon last night and AFTER placing my order I stumbled upon a thread on other forums where most of the people were agreeing that Plasma sets are better these days. I went to Best Buy and checked out LN52B750 set and I loved the PQ of it but I haven't even looked at any Plasma sets and even if I did I'm sure they weren't calibrated correctly.

Now my question is.. did I make a big mistake of buying the Sammy LCD? I currently have Sharp Aquos LC42D62U 42-Inch 1080p LCD and I mainly use it for movies and playing Modern Warfare 2 on Xbox 360. I am not a big video quality freak but I want to see a nice improvement over my old Sharp set.

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post #1007 of 1452 Old 01-08-2010, 06:45 PM
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I will certainly be getting a new tv in the not so distant future and it will be one of these two display types. Now I'm not worried about picture quality, clouding, IR, off angle viewing, etc. I can work all that out to fit my needs on my own well enough.

What I would really like to hear from those of you qualified to answer (that is either with enough personal experience or technical know how) is what sets would you reach for if build quality was your #1 buying criteria.

This is very important to me as I do not want nor have the means to buy a new tv every couple of years. The 1st color tv in my family, a 19" Mitsu CRT, was used for 20 years without a hitch. Subsequent CRT's were also used without ever failing and only replaced for larger screens. Finally went HD and bought a Mitsu DLP in '04..... uh oh, those of you in the know may say and I had thought I got a tv that would stand the test of time, only needing cleaning and lamp replacement to keep on trucking. Needless to say, that's not the case and I now have a non-working (unless I'm able to resurrect it myself... again) tv that if it was running fine, is only worth about 5% of what I paid for it.

I'm scared to get whatever is the latest tech off the boat because I don't want to get burned again. I think I'd rather try to find a model that's a couple years old if I can that's had a really good track record. So if any of the wise ones 'round here (no fanboi's please) have any opinions, I'd love to hear 'em.
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post #1008 of 1452 Old 01-08-2010, 07:20 PM
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And after how many hours the best PLASMA's/LCD's
picturequality starts to deteriorate?
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post #1009 of 1452 Old 01-08-2010, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

And after how many hours the best PLASMA's/LCD's
picturequality starts to deteriorate?

60,000 - 100,000 hours to half brightness for both technologies.

The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out.
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post #1010 of 1452 Old 01-09-2010, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynard View Post

I will certainly be getting a new tv in the not so distant future and it will be one of these two display types. Now I'm not worried about picture quality, clouding, IR, off angle viewing, etc. I can work all that out to fit my needs on my own well enough.

What I would really like to hear from those of you qualified to answer (that is either with enough personal experience or technical know how) is what sets would you reach for if build quality was your #1 buying criteria.

This is very important to me as I do not want nor have the means to buy a new tv every couple of years. The 1st color tv in my family, a 19" Mitsu CRT, was used for 20 years without a hitch. Subsequent CRT's were also used without ever failing and only replaced for larger screens. Finally went HD and bought a Mitsu DLP in '04..... uh oh, those of you in the know may say and I had thought I got a tv that would stand the test of time, only needing cleaning and lamp replacement to keep on trucking. Needless to say, that's not the case and I now have a non-working (unless I'm able to resurrect it myself... again) tv that if it was running fine, is only worth about 5% of what I paid for it.

I'm scared to get whatever is the latest tech off the boat because I don't want to get burned again. I think I'd rather try to find a model that's a couple years old if I can that's had a really good track record. So if any of the wise ones 'round here (no fanboi's please) have any opinions, I'd love to hear 'em.

Build Quality. Per Consumer's Reports, Panasonic and Samsung receive the absolute highest marks in HDTV for customer satisfaction and frequency of repair. If memory serves correctly, both around 2% to 3%.

Sony, Toshiba, Hitachi, Sharp and Vizio fall in the next tier at around 4% to 7%.

There were a few brands, I believe Mitsubishi was one, at around 9% to 11%.

From the various posts on the LCD and Plasma forums, Panasonic and Samsung seem to have the highest following and the highest customer loyalty right behind Pioneer. However, Pioneer left the HDTV business last May to the disappointment of many of us who never quite had a big enough nest egg to purchase one of their marvelous televisions.

From my limited personal knowledge and from what I read, Panasonic probably has the most conscientous customer service, should you have a problem. Samsung seems to be hit or miss. With either, if you purchase from a brick and mortar store (Best Buy, HH Gregg, Sears), most offer 30 day return policies if you are not satisfied or if you feel there are definite problems. If you purchase an extended warranty from Best Buy or Sears, they will replace your TV with the current similar model if it breaks more than a certain number of times or has major defects within the warranty period. These warranties are usually rather expensive, however, most of the stores are willing to negotiate the price or throw it in at a reduced price if required to make the sale.

Plasma and LCD's both have pluses and minuses. My personal opinion is to never make a decision based on what you see in a retail environment as these sets are not setup anywhere close to what they should be for home use.

I own both. Have LCD's in my home office and two bedrooms. Plasma in the family room.

LCD positives
    1. Crisp picture - excellent for viewing text if used with a personal computer or HTPC
    2. Bright picture - a positive for a room with too much light or direct sunlight. Caveat, neither technology does well in an environment with too much light. Plasma and LCD's with reflective screens reflect. LCD's with matte screens wash out but are marginally better for these conditions.
    3. Lowest energy consumption. This may be a factor for some people. I am one who is not too worried about using up the planets resources as our known reserves for oil, coal and natural gas are roughly ten times today what they were when I was in my 20's and seem to be actually growing all the time. Cost to me is also a non-factor. Based on a 50" plasma (what I have in my family room) and a 52" LCD, the monthly difference in energy costs are insignificant. Watching my plasma about 32 hours per week probably costs less than six dollars a month for electricity. The 52" LCD would probably reduce my costs by two dollars or so per month. I would not make an HDTV purchasing decision based on the cost of a cheeseburger per month in energy savings.
LCD negatives
    1. Limited off angle viewing. This only comes into play if you have a room with distributed seating and more than one or two people watching. Unfortunately this problem seems to get worse as you go up in picture quality and price. Panasonic uses a slightly different technology for it's LCD's which give a more extended off-angle viewing experience.
    2. Sometimes known for bright spots, flashlighting and other anomalies. Have never seen these phenomonon from any of my LCD's. Have seen the colors shift and black levels change with off-angle viewing.
Plasma positives
    1. Excellent off-angle viewing. Most plasma's maintain their picture quality with zero change as much as 170 degrees off angle. No one watches the TV from such a ridiculous angel, but if you have a large family or entertain (watching college and professional sports), it is good to know that everyone sees the picture as it should be seen. This applies to all current plasmas that I am aware of.
    2. Typically deeper black levels. The theory has always been, the deeper and truer the blacks on a television, the more robust the other colors look. There are a number of top end LCD sets that can now equal the best plasmas in black level with the trade off that this black level shifts to the gray scale as you move more than 15 to 20 degrees off axis. If this is for a signle guy or young couple, the LCD may make perfect sense.
    3. Faster response times. Less input lag. These are things I have read and been told by my son who also has both technologies in his home. I don't play games, so this is strictly hearsay, but I believe it to be accurate.
Plasma negatives
    1. Picture is prone to wash out under bright lighting conditions. I do not have this problem in a room with a total of eight 6' x 6' windows with 6' x 3' arched skylights above each. The windows have blinds which can be used to modify the light, the skylights are uncovered (orders from the master). I do not have any direct sunlight on the set as it sits in a corner. If you have direct sunlight and watch a large amount of television during daytime hours, this could be a deal breaker.
    2. Image Retention (IR). This is the tendency of certain images to stay on the screen after the picture has changed. Typically only a problem after long periods of gaming. Some people report it from static logos or information bars such as those used by ESPN. Even then, these are typically only viewable on a screen with black input (most of us get tired of watching the screens with blank input). Also, most modern plasmas have anti-image retention technology that prevents this for the most part. I am on my second plasma and have never witnessed it. My son has possession of the three and one half year old plasma and he and his wife do extensive gaming on it. I do not see any evidence of this while visiting their home and watching television.
    3. Break-in. Plasma sets do not officially need to be broken in. However, the manual that comes with most has warnings about avoiding static images and less than full screen images during the initial 100-200 hours (depending on brand and model). This is also a deal breaker for some people as they do not wish to baby their new television set.
Myths about plasma - I only mention this as on a visit to Best Buy last summer I heard this being told by a young sales person to an older couple. I did not feel the sales person way intentionally lying as he seemed quite sincere. I think he actually heard this from someone else and was passing it along as what he considered fact. It was hard to keep my mouth closed.

Plasma is prone to burn-in. FALSE. It is almost impossible to get permanent burn-in on modern plasmas. I won't say it is completely impossible as I am not acquainted with every unit for sale. Have not personally seen or heard of this in the last four or five years.

Plasma needs recharging. FALSE. There was an early myth, obviously still passed around, that you had to add plasma gas to the tube after xxx number of hours. There is no way to add plasma to the set and the gas is in there permanently.

Plasma will not last as long as LCD. FALSE. The half-life for the plasma tube for almost all current sets is 100,000 hours. This is when your brightness has reduced by half at which time you would need to burn up the brightness. LCD panels have roughly the same life span. Some people say that you may have the backlight burn out after 30,000 to 40,000 hours. This can be replaced. But that is still a significant amount of time.

Plasma is not bright enough. Most plasmas have a mode, just as LCD's do to allow a picture that goes up to about 70ftl to 80ftl. This is way too bright to watch comfortably in a normally lighted room. Both technologies look their best at about 35ftl to 40ftl and both are more than capable of displaying an excellent picture at that brightness level.

Your primary concerns with either technology is not the display itself, but the various electronics (boards) within the set. These are usually the first thing to fail. I have been quite lucky that after eight HDTV's, I have experienced only one failure of any type. That was a really cheap (CHEEP) 19" off-brand (made by Phillips) LCD. Lasted one year, then died. Could not find anyone to look at it much less work on it.

David Freeman
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post #1011 of 1452 Old 01-09-2010, 11:14 AM
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After how many hours the electronics start to fail in the best PASMA's/LCD's?
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

After how many hours the electronics start to fail in the best PASMA's/LCD's?

That would be all over the board. I have had a cheap 19" LCD with little use fail completely in 13 months. I have had a 32" LCD with light use last seven years and still going. My former 42" plasma with heavy use is still running perfectly at my son's house after 42 months and counting.

HDTV circutry is still in its infancy. When I spend big dollars (2500+), I stick with a brand that I trust. In this case it is Panasonic based on reputation, dealer feedback, various forums and bulletin boards on the internet and personal experience. That doesn't mean my new plasma, purchased August 2009, won't up and die tomorrow.

The only ones who would have really good numbers are the manufacturers. And as far as I know, they ain't talkin'.

A good read through some of the LCD and Plasma forums would give you a start. But remember than problems are probably amplified ten to one hundred times as these (me?) are people who can get obsessive and are far pickier than the average consumer.

Also a look at Consumer Reports on-line would give a somewhat broader perspective based on their customer feedback. I don't get a lot of useful information, in general, from their testing of LCD or Plasma sets.

My guess is, if really lucky, 10-12 years or more on a new HDTV. If unlucky, it would fail right after any warranty ran out.

Good luck.

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post #1013 of 1452 Old 01-09-2010, 04:40 PM
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I have my XBR5 now one year and i was wondering how long it would work well and
how long picturequality would be great.
Thanks for your responses.
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post #1014 of 1452 Old 01-10-2010, 09:25 PM
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There are a number of top end LCD sets that can now equal the best plasmas in black level .

wow, which LCD equals the black level of a KRP-500M??

I still have not come across one.

Maybe if your talking about a solid black screen when there is no white to contrast against, but that kinda makes it pointless IMO.

The best LCD i have seen is the 8500 and it still doesnt match or beat a 9th gen Kuro, much less a KRP-500M or Pro-101fd that uses partial 10G kuro tech and has slightly better blacks.

LCD's have come a long way and are coming close, but they still have not equaled the best plasma.
They all still have some degree of bloomage even when viewed dead center.

Unless LCD manufacturers come up with a panel with a super small LED for every single pixel that doesnt bloom, I dont see it happening anytime soon.
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No, Samsung 8500 won't beat Kuro in black level (0.01 cd/m^2 on 8500 vs around 0.003 cd/m^2 on Kuro) but it certainly can beat almost all other non-Kuro plasmas in black level. With fast developing LED-backlit technology, I expect in next couple years they can match the black level of Kuros, which are not even in production right now. Viewing angle and response time are other issues, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

wow, which LCD equals the black level of a KRP-500M??

I still have not come across one.

Maybe if your talking about a solid black screen when there is no white to contrast against, but that kinda makes it pointless IMO.

The best LCD i have seen is the 8500 and it still doesnt match or beat a 9th gen Kuro, much less a KRP-500M or Pro-101fd that uses partial 10G kuro tech and has slightly better blacks.

LCD's have come a long way and are coming close, but they still have not equaled the best plasma.
They all still have some degree of bloomage even when viewed dead center.

Unless LCD manufacturers come up with a panel with a super small LED for every single pixel that doesnt bloom, I dont see it happening anytime soon.

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I agree. Current LCD technology will not beat the black levels on 9G Kuros. I should have said the Best LCD's are the equal of most better plasmas in black level. With the caveat that this applies to a very narrow viewing angle.

Consider me chastised and humbled.

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I am giving a very hard look at a Kuro 50". Call me cave man if you want, but I just found out that they are not in production anymore, but I still see them selling online.
I am now wondering whether it's worth the purchase.

However, my main concerns are in regard to the location of the monitor. I know it not the proper spot but it would be placed in front of large window (partially obscured by plants). In few words, there will be window's light behind the television during dalight. Is there anyone on a similar situation? Would the plasmaTv be bright enough?

Please share your thoughts.
Thanks
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I am giving a very hard look at a Kuro 50". Call me cave man if you want, but I just found out that they are not in production anymore, but I still see them selling online.
I am now wondering whether it's worth the purchase.

However, my main concerns are in regard to the location of the monitor. I know it not the proper spot but it would be placed in front of large window (partially obscured by plants). In few words, there will be window's light behind the television during dalight. Is there anyone on a similar situation? Would the plasmaTv be bright enough?

Please share your thoughts.
Thanks

Take a look at almost any of the 12G Panasonic forums, especially the G10 forum in the sticky threads at the top. Randy Walters has a similar setup with a 46" Panasonic plasma and if memroy serves correctly, doesn't seem that this poses a problem.

If you can still find one of the 9G Kuros at a decent price, you should have a most excellent piece of equipment.

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By the way, the biggest problem with most plasmas is direct sunlight reflecting off of the screen. With the direct sunlight behind the screen, I would not think it would be a problem.

I have lots of sunlight in my condo. An array of 6'x6' windows with 6' arched skylights above. Nothing filtering the light from the skylights, venetian blinds on the windows. My plasma (Panasonic) sits in a corner and never has any direct sunlight and poses no problem for extended daytime viewing (especially during college football season). I believe that the non-reflective coating on the Kuro is several grades better than that on my Panasonic.

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post #1020 of 1452 Old 01-14-2010, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drfreeman60 View Post

By the way, the biggest problem with most plasmas is direct sunlight reflecting off of the screen. With the direct sunlight behind the screen, I would not think it would be a problem.

I have lots of sunlight in my condo. An array of 6'x6' windows with 6' arched skylights above. Nothing filtering the light from the skylights, venetian blinds on the windows. My plasma (Panasonic) sits in a corner and never has any direct sunlight and poses no problem for extended daytime viewing (especially during college football season). I believe that the non-reflective coating on the Kuro is several grades better than that on my Panasonic.

thank you for your reply.

If I only could retrieve some infos about power consumption of a 101fd, it would give me the final 'release' note to my decision.
I searched over the net and specifically here and did not find any rilevant note in regard.
I know plasmas in general consume more than an LCD, but my question is how much more would a 101fd monitor in particular?
I live in an apartment and I already have a demanding audio system and need not to overdoing.

Thank you.
Best regards,
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