LCD or Plasma? Plasma or LCD? and why those Black Bars? Discuss it here only Please - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1451 Old 12-28-2006, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnarbour View Post

I just bought the LG 42" Plasma 42PC1DA and I LOVE IT! The picture is awesome, I love everthing about it BUT, I am very nervous about the IR/Burn in issues. I have around 100 hours into it, and still see some slight IR when a bright menu item or something comes up. Nothing major. I am very nervous to watch anything 4:3 because of the bars, and I am worried I will be like this for the next 5-7 years that I plan to keep this thing. Should I switch to LCD, or am I just experiencing normal jitters of 1st time plasma owners?


If you worry about burn in, a plasma is not right for you. Especially if you watch a lot of 4:3 content. A plasma owner learns to watch 4:3 content full screen. You get used to it. A HDTV is meant to be enjoyed. Worrying about burn in won't let you enjoy your plasma. And a plasma is meant to be enjoyed.

Note: LCDs suffer from burn in too (they just take longer)


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post #92 of 1451 Old 12-28-2006, 06:47 AM
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I am preparing to upgrade to flat panel and think under all the circumstances an LCD works better for me. The facts: the room is very well lit during the day, with lots of windows; the set will be used for a lot of 4:3 content too; it will be used for gaming; the room has an overhead light fixture which if on, would generate a reflection to the precise viewing position; and I have kids, who may misuse the remote. Under these circumstances, especially the lighting issue, it seems an LCD is for me. I'd welcome an advice (I have read this thread). Thanks!
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post #93 of 1451 Old 12-28-2006, 10:10 AM
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Vampyre. LCD vs Plasma? I was interested in what you had to say about the 40XBR. I have been looking around for the few weeks for a flat screen for the bed room. Primarily will be used for TV but will double as a PC monitor as well. Probably 70% TV and 30% PC Distance to screen will be 3 feet if I am sitting on end of bed, to 6 feet if I am at the back of the bed. I have always been told by the mostly uneducated sales reps at Best Buy, 2001 AUdio Video, (up here in Canada) that I have no choice but to go LCD. Of the LCDs I have looked at, the Sony XBR leads the pack. I am just having a hard time with the price differential between the XBR product and Sony's other 1080P LCD monitor. Up here in Canada the difference in price is about $500 Canadian. I have seen the 40 Inch XBR product on sale for $2899 Canadian. ($2498 American) With taxes (we get killed here) $3,304 (2847 American). I guess I have 3 questions. Should I stick with LCD? Sharp 1080P product versus XBR product, any compairison? I have heard mixed reviews on Sharps 1080P products so far., Can you notice the difference in the XBR product versus Sony's other 1080P product.
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post #94 of 1451 Old 12-28-2006, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenandpurple View Post

I am preparing to upgrade to flat panel and think under all the circumstances an LCD works better for me. The facts: the room is very well lit during the day, with lots of windows; the set will be used for a lot of 4:3 content too; it will be used for gaming; the room has an overhead light fixture which if on, would generate a reflection to the precise viewing position; and I have kids, who may misuse the remote. Under these circumstances, especially the lighting issue, it seems an LCD is for me. I'd welcome an advice (I have read this thread). Thanks!

My room and situation is practically identical to your own. I went LCD and have been happy with the decision. Personally, the glare and burn-in worries were the items that broke the camel's back. With the kids we watch a lot of 4:3 and we TIVO (so we pause) everything. I've been using my Samsung LCD HDTV in this manner for 18 months now and it has been perfect. No glare, great picture, no burn-in (even after having a paused 4:3 image on the screen for HOURS).

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post #95 of 1451 Old 12-28-2006, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by scottgriz View Post

One more factor that has me leaning toward the LCD is the power consumption. More than double (nearly triple) on the plasma. Over the life of the TV, the cost differential in the LCD would be paid for.

325w on the 37in Plasma

vs.

126w on the 32in LCD

Now I know there is a size difference here, but nearly 3x the power?
Do some quick calculations and you will find that over the life of the TV, the LCD wins out for price if you take power into consideration. If only Panny had a 37" or 42" LCD.

In Arizona I'd have to pay to pump all that heat out of my house too. Up North it might be a heater for the room.
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post #96 of 1451 Old 12-28-2006, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by scottgriz View Post

One more factor that has me leaning toward the LCD is the power consumption. More than double (nearly triple) on the plasma. Over the life of the TV, the cost differential in the LCD would be paid for.

325w on the 37in Plasma

vs.

126w on the 32in LCD

Now I know there is a size difference here, but nearly 3x the power?
Do some quick calculations and you will find that over the life of the TV, the LCD wins out for price if you take power into consideration. If only Panny had a 37" or 42" LCD.

It's funny that people are still pushing this issue. The plasma rating is for max power draw. The plasma does not always run at max power unless you are only watching a pure white screen in ultimate torch mode. If you are viewing a black screen, with the settings minimized, it will only draw a fraction of that power. The LCD always draws it's power rating (or nearly so), no matter what is being displayed.

I have 2 LCD's (not counting computer monitor) and a plasma along with a scattering of CRTs in use in my house. I have measured my power consumption on the LCD's the plasma and one of the CRTs. Based upon a "standard" viewing week for my family & at a "square inch" comparison, they look like this.

least power consumed -> LCD1 -> Plasma -> CRT -> LCD2 -> most power consumed
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post #97 of 1451 Old 12-28-2006, 02:27 PM
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Folks, even as an LCD (and 1080P) proponent, I can't stand all these anti-plasma FUD posts. That IS childish!

Power:
The Plasma 325W is a MAX rating, and darker scenes drop the consumed power SUBSTANTIALLY. Average usageis likely in the 175-225W range. Which compares favorably against a 125W (VERY low, compared to what I've seen) 32" LCD if you measure the surface area! And LCDs constantly consume that Wattage. All the backlights are constantly on. You CAN control the LCD backlight brightness (mine are set to 2 out of a max 7,a nd 3-4 when the blinds are all open or the lights are all on)

Heat:
The heat isn't generated by magic, and efficiencies aren't very different. My 42" LCD gets hot to the touch, although it doesn't appear to emanate as much heat as a friend's (substantially larger if you do the math) 50" Plasma.

Just buy the TV/tech that suits your needs and satisfies you!

*ashu*
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post #98 of 1451 Old 12-28-2006, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenandpurple View Post

I am preparing to upgrade to flat panel and think under all the circumstances an LCD works better for me. The facts: the room is very well lit during the day, with lots of windows; the set will be used for a lot of 4:3 content too; it will be used for gaming; the room has an overhead light fixture which if on, would generate a reflection to the precise viewing position; and I have kids, who may misuse the remote. Under these circumstances, especially the lighting issue, it seems an LCD is for me. I'd welcome an advice (I have read this thread). Thanks!


All those factors point to a LCD.


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post #99 of 1451 Old 12-29-2006, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Frost147 View Post

jimmy - a plasma will give deeper blacks than an LCD. Just the nature of the current technology, but who's to say that'll still be applicable in another year (or generation of screen) or two?

A professionally calibrated plasma will give deeper blacks WITH more definition inside the black area - say, the lapels of a tuxedo would be more apparent.

At least that's been my experience with the 42" plasma Sammy.

Senior Member,
I think you are mistaking in reference to deeper blacks by a Plasma vs LCD. It is a known fact that the Plasma has a softer picture with more of a grey than the ddep blacks produced by the LCD.
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post #100 of 1451 Old 12-29-2006, 04:53 PM
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To much bluring in a moving picture on the LCD. If you are watching sports like skiing on a LCD it will actually give you a headache. Sharp says that with a 4 ms refresh rate that you will not notice this problem, but that is crap, just go to your local dealer and it is very obvious
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post #101 of 1451 Old 12-30-2006, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by mrollins View Post

Senior Member,
I think you are mistaking in reference to deeper blacks by a Plasma vs LCD. It is a known fact that the Plasma has a softer picture with more of a grey than the ddep blacks produced by the LCD.

LOL! Since it seems to be universally accepted that plasmas have deeper blacks than LCD & LCDs actually display a greyer black, why don't you point me to some professional reviews that show otherwise?
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post #102 of 1451 Old 12-30-2006, 09:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mrollins View Post

Senior Member,
I think you are mistaking in reference to deeper blacks by a Plasma vs LCD. It is a known fact that the Plasma has a softer picture with more of a grey than the ddep blacks produced by the LCD.

Having owned both, I can tell you that you are wrong.
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post #103 of 1451 Old 12-30-2006, 11:58 AM
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I've been the mostly happy owner of a Sony HS10 front projector for the last three years, but I've been looking at getting a flat panel for the bedroom recently. I've spent a lot of time looking at plasma and LCD TVs in shops over the last few months, but to be honest I have major reservations about both technologies:

Plasmas - obvious issues that have already been discussed here are the reduced resolution (unless you pay huge money) and reflective screens (Pioneers aren't too bad due to a special coating). But the deal-breaker for me is the rainbow effect, which I haven't seen discussed on this thread at all. Basically, when I look from one side of the screen to the other, especially when there are bright whites against a dark background, I notice the white seems to 'break out' into other colours. The effect is similar to the rainbow effect on 1-chip DLP projectors, but on plasmas the colours seem to be less distinct when they break out. I think this is probably something that I'm just very sensitive to, because I always notice this on DLPs (though much less on the newer 1 chips) and I'm also more sensitive to flicker than other people. Turning the white level down makes this less noticeable.

LCDs - the best ones for black level seem to be Sony Bravia so I've mostly looked at those. Blacks levels can appear to be better than plasma (maybe this is just an illusion casued by whites in the same image being brighter on an LCD than on a plasma) but only if you're directly in front of the screen. LCDs usually look fantastic at first glance when displaying HD material, but when I look up close, say standing 1.5 times the display width, I start noticing jagged edges all over the place (aliasing?) which I don't get when viewing the same material on my LCD projector. This makes the picture look much less natural. (By the way, I'm in the UK where TVs are often demoed with - stunning - BBC HD 1080i/50 trailers that you can also watch at home). I'm guessing that this must be some sort of scaling problem, but I'm amazed that my Sony projector from 3 years ago and which cost similar money has better scaling than Sony's latest TVs... I've also noticed that LCD TVs (even Sony) can also look apallingly bad with SD material (worse than a CRT/plasma ever would), but at other times they can look great with SD. This again suggests that there may be a problem with signal processing, which causes them to be especially sensitive to any deficiencies in the quality of images they're being fed with. I should add that - apart from turning the 'sharpness' control to zero, which is essential - playing with the various picture settings doesn't seem to have much effect on these problems. Also, other makes of LCD seem to have similar scaling issues to Sony's.

As things stand I think I'll go for LCD, because the plasma rainbow effect would be too annoying, and the HD scaling issues on LCDs probably won't be noticeable from my intended viewing distance, but I'll probably wait for sets with HDMI v1.3.
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post #104 of 1451 Old 12-30-2006, 08:22 PM
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I haven't noticed any rainbow on my LG plasma, and little to no reflections either. Love it!
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post #105 of 1451 Old 12-30-2006, 08:41 PM
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I remember one or two people complain about this a long time ago. One of those weird things people are occasionally sensitive to. I too have not witness this with my plasma.
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post #106 of 1451 Old 12-31-2006, 03:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrollins View Post

Senior Member,
I think you are mistaking in reference to deeper blacks by a Plasma vs LCD. It is a known fact that the Plasma has a softer picture with more of a grey than the ddep blacks produced by the LCD.

That's completely incorrect. For the time being plasmas' black levels are far darker than LCDs'.
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post #107 of 1451 Old 01-02-2007, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanP View Post

I remember one or two people complain about this a long time ago. One of those weird things people are occasionally sensitive to. I too have not witness this with my plasma.

I'm one of those "Rare Wierdos"

I'm returning a wonderfull Pany Plasma because I see "Rainbows" and Yellow colour smears and flashes

It causes eyestrain and fatigue for me.


LCDs don't produce this effect for me.

Now I just gotta pick between Sammy or Sharp....
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post #108 of 1451 Old 01-03-2007, 04:39 PM
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I haven't been to this board much since I bought my Fujitsu 50" plasma 3 years ago. Since my father in law wants to get a new display, thought I would check back in here to see what the current issues are. It is amazing to me that people are still having the same discussions now that they were 3 years ago about burn in, power consumption, etc. Here are some things I've observed on my plasma over the past 3 years;

- burn-in and IR have been non-issues. My kids play video games (and forget to turn them off), I watch various aspect ratio programming, etc. I can see no long term effects.

- Screen life has also been a non-issue. My unit is on a lot and I have not had to turn up the brightness and see no evidence of fade of any type.

- I see no meaningful difference in my electrical bill. It could be in there somewhere, but it is a rounding error if it is.

- Screen glare has not been an issue despite my plasma being in a room with windows on 3 sides and living in California with lots of sunlight.

- I have been watching more sports (on HD TV) and movies and getting a real theater experience for the past 3 years. You stop looking at the irrelevant things and just get into the show. I will note that I finally chose plasma because I didn't like the motion artifacts on LCD.

Like many of you, I looked at LCD, DLP and plasma. One thing I observed is that it is largely a waste of time to view these things in a big box store as they are so poorly adjusted and the lighting is so bad that you can't tell what any unit is really doing. When you go to a store that properly calibrates the units and has reasonable lighting, the choices are much clearer.

Finally, you will probably enjoy whatever you end up getting. There is nothing like spending a lot of money on new technology to ensure that it looks better to you than the other options.
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post #109 of 1451 Old 01-04-2007, 10:32 PM
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Hello all,

I'm in a bit of a dilemma when it comes to choosing between LCD and Plasma. I currently am trying to decide between a Samsung LN-S4095D (LCD) and a Panasonic TH-42PX60U. They are currently in the same room and I will not be keeping both. I'm not rich or anything, just trying to discern which is best for me.

With several hours so far, comparing the sets to one another, I'm still very much on the fence about it. I will be doing pretty much everything with whatever set I keep, from gaming (classic and current) to movies to HD and SD broadcasts. I'm just looking to see if anyone can make a suggestion based on my observations so far..

LCD pros:
-higher resolution, so things in general are a bit more detailed
-no concern about IR/burn-in (I realize this issue on Plasmas is mostly a non-issue nowadays, but I must admit a slight concern at least)
-anti-glare screen. not a huge issue, but there is a difference between the two

LCD cons:
-old school games (SNES/NES, perhaps others - haven't tested) have issues with vertical lines visible against dark backgrounds. for some reason, this is a big issue since the plasma doesn't seem to have as much trouble with those old games
-response time is noticeable, especially in fast sequences (like when passing a ball cross-court in NBA 2K7)
-black levels - not too bad, but can detract a bit, especially compared to plasma (blacks just seem more natural and dark in the 'right' way on a plasma..)
-SD content, in general, looks a bit more washed out

Plasma pros:
-overall more natural look to people, environments, etc.
-SD content seems a bit brighter, more crisp
-handles classic gaming much better (not great, but no strange vertical line on the SNES)
-no response time issues in comparison to LCD

Plasma cons:
-slightly lower resolution, which results in perhaps a slight
-no pc input (not a big deal, unless I want to upconvert XBox 360 DVDs beyond 480p - even then, it's not a huge difference compared to VGA upconversion to supposed 1080p on the LCD)
-potential for IR/burn-in due to gaming (again, I realize this isn't much of an issue anymore
-light reflections can be an issue sometimes

I realize LCD has more 'severe' cons at this point, but it's a much harder choice than it may seem. I really like how LCD looks for gaming and HD broadcasts, but the Plasma looks damn good (perhaps not quite as sharp, tho) for both too - not to mention it handles SD broadcasts better. I would like to be able to play my older games on my HD set, even though it won't be too often, so that's a factor. With regards to gaming in general, I guess I have been 'afraid' of Plasmas because the common theme seems to direct people away from them if they are gamers. It's a difficult choice, that I'm sure many of you can relate to.

Any advice or comments would be much appreciated. I thank anyone who had the patience to read all this! If anyone would rather PM me, then that's totally fine.

Thanks for your time!
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post #110 of 1451 Old 01-05-2007, 12:51 AM
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WarriorNine, I think you'd find that if both sets were carefully calibrated, picture quality would be a wash. In particular, the LCD edge on detail, and the PDP edge on life colors, would be minimal or disappear altogether. These are both excellent panels.

Two things to think about w/r to the Samsung: the one current-model Samsung I've had experience with had relatively bad washout on off-angle viewing, and made calibration difficult by giving settings nonstandard names (eg, "energy savings" for the more conventional "backlight level").

I would lurk a bit on the plasma forums before completely dismissing burn-in as a non-issue; for example, the discussion here is interesting: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=765851. - DR
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post #111 of 1451 Old 01-05-2007, 03:28 AM
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Hello. I am new here.

At the moment I don't know what I am going to buy.
Probably it is going to be either Plasma - Panasonic TH42PX600PED or Panasonic TH42PX60PED1 or Sony Bravia KDL-40W2000.

I do not watch TV too much. 2 DVD films per week at most, but usually only 1. My wife watches about 5-6 hours per week general TV channels. Probably if I buy a new TV I will have to order a digital TV as well, but the amount of time we spend in front of TV wont change.

So, I need my TV mostly to watch DVDs, maybe in the future HDTV channels? And maybe look my pictures. I wonder if Plasma is any good for watching digital pictures?
No PC/playstation gaming at all.

Any suggestions?
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post #112 of 1451 Old 01-05-2007, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorNine View Post

Hello all,
With several hours so far, comparing the sets to one another, I'm still very much on the fence about it. I will be doing pretty much everything with whatever set I keep, from gaming (classic and current) to movies to HD and SD broadcasts. I'm just looking to see if anyone can make a suggestion based on my observations so far..

A lot of your observations seem to run exactly with your knowledge. In other words, the brain is a powerful force & your subconscious may be combining your knowledge with your visual input.

You've got the ideal set up, and are doing what most of us should do, comparing two displays side by side in their eventual home with your standard viewing material.

If you want to get opinion on how they look without your knowledge interfering, invite 10 people (your parents, friends, etc) who know nothing about HDTV over. Put them in your seat and run the displays with SD, HD and gaming in both light and dark ambient & ask them which one they think looks better. Don't lead their statements & don't ask them about features/burn in etc.

In any case, it currently sounds like you think they are a tie, you need to factor in your bank account as well.
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post #113 of 1451 Old 01-05-2007, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by astra_lestat View Post

I wonder if Plasma is any good for watching digital pictures?
No PC/playstation gaming at all.

Yes, plasma is good for viewing digital cable, I found that the pioneers are better for viewing non HD cable than the panasonics though.
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post #114 of 1451 Old 01-05-2007, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by why2not View Post

Yes, plasma is good for viewing digital cable, I found that the pioneers are better for viewing non HD cable than the panasonics though.

Sorry, I didn't mean digital cable. I was talking about pictures from digital camera. JPG format.
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post #115 of 1451 Old 01-05-2007, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by WarriorNine View Post

Any advice or comments would be much appreciated. I thank anyone who had the patience to read all this! If anyone would rather PM me, then that's totally fine.

Thanks for your time!


WarriorNine good for you! So many people do not take the time to actually bring a couple of the sets home to try side by side in YOUR setting. I did this in November and was surprised by my own choice. I wanted LCD in the worse way. Looked at Sony KDL40V2500, and Sammy LNS4095D.

Finally I brought the Sony home and it was horrible out of the box. After calibrating it is was terrific. However there was somehting about the picture I was not satisfied with. It absorbed light (Which may be better than reflecting it like a plasma) and washed out with sunlight. The angles (although much much improved) are not as good as plasma. The screen was razor sharp but looked "computer" generated. PC hook-up was awesome at 1080P. Don't get me wrong it was a fantastic set but I felt something was missing.

So I went out and got the Panny 42" plasma and had them side by side for 2 weeks. In the end 720p was 90+% (most times I could not tell the differnce) as good as 1080p at 40 & 42 inches at 8 feet. Plasma looks more natural and deeper. If PC monitor is your thing LCD is your choice. Otherwise I chose the Panny. I then asked neighbors for their opionion and most said both were beautiful.

I have 3 teenage boys who game heavily on it and no problems at all and looks awesome from SNES to WII to XBOX 360.

However in the end what really decided it for me was price. Both sets were really great but the 42 inch Panny with a Sony AV reciever, 5.1 speakers and 5 disc HDMI upconverting DVD was 1,600 with no interst until Jan 2009.

Hope this helps.
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post #116 of 1451 Old 01-05-2007, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astra_lestat View Post

Sorry, I didn't mean digital cable. I was talking about pictures from digital camera. JPG format.


I had both 1080p LCD and 720p plasma side by side for a couple of weeks. If the JPGs have the resolution they will look sharper on the 1080p but not night and day difference.

My thought was the LCD looked like a matte finish photo while the plasma looked like a glossy photo. Both were great.

If you plan on leaving a static image on for long periods then LCD would be my vote. Otherwise either would be a great choice.
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post #117 of 1451 Old 01-05-2007, 06:00 AM
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OK. Thanks.
No, no static pictures.
I just thought that it would be nicer to look pictures on big 42" TV screen than on PC monitor 20".
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post #118 of 1451 Old 01-05-2007, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astra_lestat View Post

OK. Thanks.
No, no static pictures.
I just thought that it would be nicer to look pictures on big 42" TV screen than on PC monitor 20".

I hope I don't get flamed for this but since you are so polite with your responses I will give you some other observations.

While both lcd and plasma sets I had were great - movies tend to have a lot of dark scenes which are better on plasma - and while plasma can have IR it is way overblown. However, many movies are not filmed in 16:9 aspect ratio which will leave small black bars on top and bottom. If that is the majority of what you watch then over the years those phosphors will not be used and you will see it. You can always change the aspect to fill the screen but that is a personal preference some like and others do not. In the end movies (not animation movies which are unbeleivable on LCD) look better on a plasma.
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post #119 of 1451 Old 01-05-2007, 06:45 AM
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Oh I never thought about it.

Guess you are right ...twice - 1 - they will be seen, 2 - the over years
If my wife watches normal TV channels they will be probably 4:3, and leave some unused space on a left and a right sides of the screen but filling in some of the top and bottom pixels that are not used when watching DVD...
Well, that is what I hope for. Also, I really hope that new plasmas are supposed to be better than 3-4 years old plasmas.

Btw, what does "watching SD material" mean? What is SD?
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post #120 of 1451 Old 01-05-2007, 07:22 AM
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Standard Definition vs. High Definition (HD)
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