LCD or Plasma? Plasma or LCD? and why those Black Bars? Discuss it here only Please - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1451 Old 01-29-2007, 06:52 PM
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Joy!

*ashu*
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post #182 of 1451 Old 01-30-2007, 01:23 AM
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I also ended up with the 50" panny plasma, mainly because of the great sale price. It was hard to give up the 1080p and the various lcd advantages, but I'm watching the Dish Network NBC HD feed on my new plasma right now and it's fairly stunning. Thanks for all the helpful posts and info from why2not and others. I'm now experiencing the plasma advantages that everyone has been talking about, like amazing black levels, contrast, and an eerie "3D" effect.
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post #183 of 1451 Old 02-02-2007, 11:59 AM
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I also ended up with a 50' Panny right after Thanksgiving last year. I've had NO buyers remorse whatsoever.

Great choice
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post #184 of 1451 Old 02-05-2007, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cult Of NeurISIS View Post

UPDATE - Thanks to the confidence boost from your responses, I went ahead and bought the Panny 50" plasma...

AND an LCD.

-CoN-

lol, the ultimate answer. Plasma or LCD? Both, of course!

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post #185 of 1451 Old 02-09-2007, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TulsaCoker View Post

LCD for me and I don't go to Hip Hop bars.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #186 of 1451 Old 02-12-2007, 09:07 PM
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Great thread guys. I've been browing these forums nonstop for the last couple of weeks taking everything in as I'm about ready to purchase my first large screen tv. I've been weighing the pros and cons of the 3 major types (plasma, LCD, DLP/LCos) and each one has been my front runner at some point it time. I'm going in circles, maybe someone here can help me. I'm looking for something around 50" and here are the requirements.
1. It will see very little gaming.
2. It is going in family room where it will see many hours of use. That's what turned me off from rear projection. The wife and 3 year old will watch it more than me so it has to be simple. I can handle a 100 to 200 hour break-in but after that it needs to idiot proof. I can't expect the wife to constantly change aspect ratios to avoid black or gray pillars when watching 4:3 programming. I don't want to have to stretch 4:3 content all the time. Let's assume the worst, we may watch 4:3 programming unstretched for 50% to 60% of the time. Is this a problem for a properly broken in plasma? In time I hope more HD comes available but for now Time Warner only has so many channels in HD.
3. My main viewing (whenever they let me use it) will be sports. This is what has me favoring plasma versus LCD; however, the LCDs in the stores now are looking better all the time.
4. I really don't want to go less than 50". The only LCD I've seen that come close to the 50" Panasonic plasmas as far as price is Sharp's model. Maybe I've missed some?

I guess in conclusion, I want my choice to be something my family can enjoy and I don't want to have to be anal over it. Thanks in advance for any advice anyone has to offer up.
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post #187 of 1451 Old 02-13-2007, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorj View Post

2. It is going in family room where it will see many hours of use. That's what turned me off from rear projection.

I don't understand this statement. Is your concern bulb replacement? Otherwise if the PQ of RP didn't turn you off, that might be your best bet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorj View Post

4. I really don't want to go less than 50". The only LCD I've seen that come close to the 50" Panasonic plasmas as far as price is Sharp's model. Maybe I've missed some?

I suggest LCD or RP, just making sure you get one that does not show motion blur to you. But they're pretty pricy in the 50+ range.

Note that my family has no idea what IR or BI is & I am stopped being anal over it after the first week. They treat the plasma as they treat the LCDs as they treat the CRTs. I've had no problem with IR. My wife insists on watching 4:3 content streched (no sense paying for that big screen and not using it she says), so I'm a bit ahead of the game there.

Be aware that some plasmas have a dynamic side bar that changes intensity to match what is on the screen. This will allow you to watch 4:3 in it's original aspect ratio and not worry about IR/BI from side bars. Make sure you view these in the store prior to a purchase though as some find them distracting.

BTW, the reason I recommend LCD or RP is your 3YO. I suspect that cartoons are going to be a family staple for a while. I also suspect that much of the time the tv will be viewed with a lot of ambient light in the room. I also suspect it will be about another 5 years before you can reasonably expect your child to turn off the tv/dvd player when leaving the room & not leaving the DVD menu up for 8 hours at a time. In another 5 years, you'll likely be eyeballing a bigger/newer/better display anyways.
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post #188 of 1451 Old 02-13-2007, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by why2not View Post

Note that my family has no idea what IR or BI is & I am stopped being anal over it after the first week. They treat the plasma as they treat the LCDs as they treat the CRTs. I've had no problem with IR. .

Can I ask which plasma you have? I've been trying to decide between the Pioneer 5070 or the Sharp 52" D62 lcd. Thanks.

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post #189 of 1451 Old 02-13-2007, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by why2not View Post

I don't understand this statement. Is your concern bulb replacement? Otherwise if the PQ of RP didn't turn you off, that might be your best bet.


I suggest LCD or RP, just making sure you get one that does not show motion blur to you. But they're pretty pricy in the 50+ range.

Note that my family has no idea what IR or BI is & I am stopped being anal over it after the first week. They treat the plasma as they treat the LCDs as they treat the CRTs. I've had no problem with IR. My wife insists on watching 4:3 content streched (no sense paying for that big screen and not using it she says), so I'm a bit ahead of the game there.

Be aware that some plasmas have a dynamic side bar that changes intensity to match what is on the screen. This will allow you to watch 4:3 in it's original aspect ratio and not worry about IR/BI from side bars. Make sure you view these in the store prior to a purchase though as some find them distracting.

BTW, the reason I recommend LCD or RP is your 3YO. I suspect that cartoons are going to be a family staple for a while. I also suspect that much of the time the tv will be viewed with a lot of ambient light in the room. I also suspect it will be about another 5 years before you can reasonably expect your child to turn off the tv/dvd player when leaving the room & not leaving the DVD menu up for 8 hours at a time. In another 5 years, you'll likely be eyeballing a bigger/newer/better display anyways.

I am leaning more and more towards rear projection and lcd. The biggest issue for me with the rear projections is the bulb life and the fact that these types have proven to be more repair prone versus LCDs and plasmas (accoring to Consumer Reports). My wife and kid don't know the meaning of turning tvs off when they go to a different room so the hours I can get out of a bulb are a factor. I estimated the tv would probably be on between 2500 and 3000 hours per year. Reading through forums like this I have come across DLP horror stories where people are only getting 1000 or so hours out of a $300 bulb (not cool). I'm starting to think I just need to sit tight until th 50" lcds come down to where the plasmas are.
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post #190 of 1451 Old 02-13-2007, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M4P View Post

Can I ask which plasma you have? I've been trying to decide between the Pioneer 5070 or the Sharp 52" D62 lcd. Thanks.

5070
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post #191 of 1451 Old 02-13-2007, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by why2not View Post

5070

Thanks. That's the one I'm thinking of getting. I feel like my brain is on a seesaw, trying to decide between the Pioneer and the Sharp.

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post #192 of 1451 Old 02-15-2007, 12:46 PM
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I'm completely torn on which is going to be the best TV. I'm looking at 46"1080P LCD vs. 42" Plasma (most likely the Mitsubishi 46LT231 vs. the Pioneer Elite PRO-940) I don't do much gaming, mainly watching sports and DVDs. My current viewing distance is about 10-11 ft, but could be closer in the future. My concern with the LCD is motion blur/PQ. My concern with the Plasma is that it isn't 1080P. I know there aren't 1080P signals out now, but I don't want to regret not having 1080P when they come out. I am thinking about waiting to see if the plasmas start rolling out 1080P, but I'm not sure that they will be available under 50" (which is too big for me). I'm not the type that buys a new TV every 2 years, so futureproofing is pretty important, but I don't know if 1080P will be necessary.
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post #193 of 1451 Old 02-18-2007, 09:40 PM
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I am about the go for the panasonic TH-42PH9UK plasma but I saw some plasma's at work on for PC usage (say internet browsing), they didnt look that sharp (was an NEC not a Panasonic). Can anybody comment how plasma's do as occasional PC usage in the living room (sitting 10ft away or so).
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post #194 of 1451 Old 02-18-2007, 10:58 PM
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My Pioneer 60" does pretty good with PC signals. I've heard the Pannys do fairly well too. A lot has to do with the plasma itself - different brands perform differently.

Your best bet to answer your question is to run a search of the thread in the Plasma section that specifically deals with the Panny you are considering. Run a search for PC in that thread and see what you come up with. Good chance you'll find it has been discussed before. If you can't find what you are looking for, post your question.

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post #195 of 1451 Old 02-19-2007, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucknroses View Post

I'm completely torn on which is going to be the best TV. I'm looking at 46"1080P LCD vs. 42" Plasma (most likely the Mitsubishi 46LT231 vs. the Pioneer Elite PRO-940) I don't do much gaming, mainly watching sports and DVDs. My current viewing distance is about 10-11 ft, but could be closer in the future. My concern with the LCD is motion blur/PQ. My concern with the Plasma is that it isn't 1080P. I know there aren't 1080P signals out now, but I don't want to regret not having 1080P when they come out. I am thinking about waiting to see if the plasmas start rolling out 1080P, but I'm not sure that they will be available under 50" (which is too big for me). I'm not the type that buys a new TV every 2 years, so futureproofing is pretty important, but I don't know if 1080P will be necessary.

Similar thoughts here, looking at the same two TVs, athough if I go Plasma, I may have to go Panny for availability. We watch mostly shows and movies, some sports. With a FP, are viewing distance would become 9.5 ft.

The thing I can't get over is that the 42" Plasmas are 1024x768p, and the 46" LCDs are 1920x1080p. Now, if they come out with even a 1366x768p Plasma, it would be a tougher decision. I wouldn't expect a 1920x1080p Plasma so soon, but maybe, who knows.

How does a Plasma overcome that lack of resolution?
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post #196 of 1451 Old 02-19-2007, 02:53 PM
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Had my mind set on the Vizio 47" 1080p LCD and now that I have seen the Vizio 60" plasma I'm torn.

Is 1080p really worth it? Does the larger screen size make up for it? WHat about the LCD vs plasma debate when it comes to these two units?

Anyone out there able to shed some light on the best way to go?

I originally thought the LCD would be best because of screen glare, but when I looked at the 60" plasma it was not so bad that I could not live with it. I also felt like I needed 1080p, but that 60" looked great even though it is only 720p!
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post #197 of 1451 Old 02-19-2007, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

Similar thoughts here, looking at the same two TVs, athough if I go Plasma, I may have to go Panny for availability. We watch mostly shows and movies, some sports. With a FP, are viewing distance would become 9.5 ft.

The thing I can't get over is that the 42" Plasmas are 1024x768p, and the 46" LCDs are 1920x1080p. Now, if they come out with even a 1366x768p Plasma, it would be a tougher decision. I wouldn't expect a 1920x1080p Plasma so soon, but maybe, who knows.

How does a Plasma overcome that lack of resolution?

Well, I went with the Pioneer Elite 940 Plasma, I finally saw a samsung top of the line LCD right next to the elite, and the elite blew it away. There are 1920x1080 plasma, but only at 50" and about $8k. It will probably be a while before the 42" sets get the 1080 resolution under $5k.

The plasma has so much more depth to it and didn't seem to suffer from motion blur.

By the way, I think even the regular Pioneer had a better picture than the Panasonics IMO. If you can find the Elite (got mine from Magnolia, they also have magnolia in some BBs)
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post #198 of 1451 Old 02-19-2007, 06:41 PM
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First post, glad I found this thread. Perhaps there are people on this forum that can assist.

I'm trying to decide on the best choice for the TV in the living room. I have a rather small living room that gets very little natural light and the viewing distance will be approximately 6 1/2 feet. I feel the best size is the 42" screen (maybe stretching to 46").

I had initially thought about going with plasma as my research tells me that plasmas are better for rooms with little light. Additionally, my research tells me that plasma is slightly better for very fast moving sports programming (hockey and football are key for me). The Panasonics looked nice and the Pioneers were super.

Here's my dilemma - we were given a Blu-ray dvd player as a gift. I can certainly hook it up to any 720p/1080i set and get a great picture with DVDs, but I feel like I would be missing something by not having a full 1080p set for the Blu-ray. Now, I understand that most of the DVDs currently released are not in Blu-ray format though many new releases will be. I'm not a huge DVD-movie watcher. I also know that it will be quite some time until over the air programming is in 1080p.

There are some great full 1080p LCDs out there that would be fantastic with the Blu-ray. My question here is twofold:

First, would I be missing something by having a non-1080p Plasma? (can't afford the full 1080p plasmas and don't want to go 50")

and second, have the full 1080p and latest geneation LCDs narrowed the difference in image quality for programming such as sports?

So, to sum it up, given my scenario, Plasma or LCD?
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post #199 of 1451 Old 02-19-2007, 10:45 PM
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Go with the plasma for all the reasons you stated. If you need proof on the picture quality of 1080p Blu Ray on a 768p set, run a search for PioManiac - he has some real nice screen shots of Blu Ray on his Pioneer plasma.

Secondly, read through this thread and search for others concerning 1080p vs 768p. Do a little more research on the forum and you'll find your answers.

Jeff


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post #200 of 1451 Old 02-20-2007, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

How does a Plasma overcome that lack of resolution?

Resolution is the #4 critera acording to ISF in terms of PQ.
Plasmas win #1-3, that's how they overcome being deficient in #4.

Further, let's think about resolution for a second. It is higly dependant on viewing distance. Let's say that the pixel was only 1/2 the size of a hair diameter. Do you really think you'll see a difference between that & the one that is 1/4 the diameter of a hair from 12 feet away? What about if it was the size of a atom vs the size of two atom? Would the one atom pixel look better, maybe if you had an electron microscope you were using. In other words, if you cant' see it, why does it matter?

There are plenty of charts on this forum that show you what 20/20 vison can resolve in terms of screen size, seating distance and resolution.
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post #201 of 1451 Old 02-20-2007, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by why2not View Post

Resolution is the #4 critera acording to ISF in terms of PQ.
Plasmas win #1-3, that's how they overcome being deficient in #4.

Yes, I knew there were other factors.
What are those three factors?

I am aware of the screen size vs. distance effect on perceived detail.
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post #202 of 1451 Old 02-20-2007, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucknroses View Post

It will probably be a while before the 42" sets get the 1080 resolution under $5k.

Thanks for the comments on plasma's attributes.
I would like a 1366x768p Plasma, it doesn't have to be 1920x108p.
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post #203 of 1451 Old 02-21-2007, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

Yes, I knew there were other factors.
What are those three factors?

2nd to last paragraph in this article.
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-...tml?tag=feat.2
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post #204 of 1451 Old 02-22-2007, 03:14 PM
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nmb
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post #205 of 1451 Old 02-24-2007, 09:48 AM
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jginnyc:
You should check out the Hitachi 42hdx99. Due to the screen that Hitachi makes it does 1080i without having to scale the picture (or something like that) and many tvs degrade picture quality as a result of poor scaling regardless of resolution. At least with this one you avoid that issue. The Pioneer Elite plasmas also produce great pictures and I read somewhere Pioneer had the highest customer satisfaction amongst flat screen tv makers (sorry don't remember where I read that). Check out hdguru's site. He picked the hitachi as one of his top picks a few months ago. My understanding is our eyes can't distinguish between a properly scaled (not a given) 1080i picture and 1080p.

Lastly in my search for a 42" tv I have been focusing on trying to find a model of lcd or plasma that does not have problems. For example I have read some sony and samsung lcd's have an issue with part of the screen being cloudy. I have not found any problems yet with the hitachi I mentioned but I have not searched all the forums. If anyone knows of any tvs that are free from issues that would be helpful.
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post #206 of 1451 Old 02-26-2007, 09:27 PM
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Do we have a consensus agreement on which tv is best for SD? I tried to scan through previous posts for answers but couldn't find anything. Most programs I will be watching are in SD and I don't think we're very close to having a majority of programming in HD (please correct me if i'm wrong). Anyways I'm looking for the best value on a tv that I plan on keeping for about 5 years bearing in mind most programs are still SD. Your thoughts everyone?

Thanks
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post #207 of 1451 Old 02-27-2007, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

Thanks for the comments on plasma's attributes.
I would like a 1366x768p Plasma, it doesn't have to be 1920x108p.

I would like to add to this that buying a 1080p LCD is not a sin. It is being future proof.

I just bought a 1080p set (Sharp D62) not because I have allot of sources for 1080p, but becuase in the future I might. Most of the time it is running at 720p when watching HD and that is still a small amount of time compared to my SD habits.

On the 768p I would like to point out that HD signals are normally 720p aren't they? Why buy soemthing LCD or Plasma that starts out having to scale from 720 to 768? It leaves more chance for errors that will affect PQ.

That being said, I think that the normal way a plasma works will cover allot of the errors that can come from scaling (small errors that are glaring on a LCD). But LCD sets are getting better at this as well.
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post #208 of 1451 Old 02-27-2007, 09:27 AM
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Actually, TNG, MOST HD TV channels are 1080i, NOT 720p. Only ABC, Fox, ESPN, ESPN2 and perhaps one or two more are 720p!

So you 1080p TV is STILL the smartest choice as it doesn't have to scale (just deinterlaces) the VAST majority of current HD channels.

*ashu*
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post #209 of 1451 Old 02-27-2007, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmadd18 View Post

Do we have a consensus agreement on which tv is best for SD? I tried to scan through previous posts for answers but couldn't find anything. Most programs I will be watching are in SD and I don't think we're very close to having a majority of programming in HD (please correct me if i'm wrong). Anyways I'm looking for the best value on a tv that I plan on keeping for about 5 years bearing in mind most programs are still SD. Your thoughts everyone?

Thanks

It all depends on your internal processors. I personally haven't seen sets that do better on SD than pioneer & NEC plasmas.
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post #210 of 1451 Old 02-27-2007, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNG View Post

I would like to add to this that buying a 1080p LCD is not a sin. It is being future proof.

I just bought a 1080p set (Sharp D62) not because I have allot of sources for 1080p, but becuase in the future I might. Most of the time it is running at 720p when watching HD and that is still a small amount of time compared to my SD habits.

On the 768p I would like to point out that HD signals are normally 720p aren't they? Why buy soemthing LCD or Plasma that starts out having to scale from 720 to 768? It leaves more chance for errors that will affect PQ.

That being said, I think that the normal way a plasma works will cover allot of the errors that can come from scaling (small errors that are glaring on a LCD). But LCD sets are getting better at this as well.

Here's a novel idea, buy the set that looks the best in your home with your viewing conditions.
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Reply OLED Technology and Flat Panels General

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