FP w/ CableCard and Possibly TV/DVD Combo - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 12-28-2006, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I am stunned by the lack of models in Plasma and LCD models w/ Cablecard. I have looked at the websites for CC, Wally, HH Gregg, BB and at most they have one model w/ Cablecard (for 42" panels).

I would have thought this would be a big feature for FP since the elimination of the box goes very well w/ the form factor of the flat panel.

I have basically found (mainly looking at Plasma but have noticed a few LCDs) one model from Panasonic, one from Hitachi, one from Samsung, one from Toshiba (LCD), and that is basically it (at least in the lower priced 42" models). Actually pretty slim pickings.

I am looking for a unit for my bedroom for casual TV watching so I am not looking for the perfect TV just a decent HD TV. So for this application I would think eliminating the STB for cable would be a great thing to have. This seems like a common use for a FP, but obviously I an not the normal customer. I actually thought that the Government mandated that Cablecard slots were put in, but maybe I remember incorrectly.

Truthfully, I would not mind a unit that has a DVD built in as well, but I have only seen a Westy 40" LCD (no cablecard) and a Toshiba 37" but nothing in the 42" range. Any ideas?

Actually eliminating the STB is probably the most important feature I am looking for and picture quality is secondary. Putting up this TV w/ no boxes of any kind would make it 'fit' in my bedroom perfectly.

Is my perfect FP out there somewhere or anyone heard of something lie this in the pipeline?
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post #2 of 25 Old 12-28-2006, 08:04 PM
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I completely agree with your observation. I am in the same boat as you are, as I have been looking for a ~40" FP display for my bedroom where space is a premium. I wish there was more of a selection of 1080p/Cablecard combos that I can mount onto the wall in a clean and streamlined package.
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post #3 of 25 Old 12-31-2006, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Has anyone heard if the trend in the new models which I assume come out this Spring is increasing or decreasing use of cablecards?
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post #4 of 25 Old 12-31-2006, 10:27 AM
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the trend is totally decreasing. most of sonys new lcd line doesnt have cable card...and you cannot even FIND a cheap brand lcd or plasma that has cable card...i think it sucks. i love the cable card in my sony 26xbr1 tv in my bedroom, and when i move my pio5070 into my bedroom and get a 65 inch 1080p plasma for the living room, i will be installing a cable card in the pio.

paul if youre looking for a bedroom tv with CC, look at the latest sharp 26 inch or 32 inch lcd's (the black or dark gray ones, not the cheap silver one they sell at sams and costco) i believe they have cable card still.
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post #5 of 25 Old 01-02-2007, 07:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the advice but I was hoping to get something bigger than a 32" (maybe a 37" or a 42").

It's too bad that cablecard is becoming extinct I think anyone who has a FP would want it (assuming obviously they are not sat customers). From both the form factor and also from a minor cost saving. I have called Comcast and the cablecard is free so that saves $60/year.

Maybe as the price continues to get so cheap on those things and people buy them for the bedroom the trend will reverse. I think as the main viewing device people may not need cablecard b/c all the Audio, DVD, etc are needed so what is one more box, but in the BR eliminating the box will be a bigger deal. Maybe?????????????
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post #6 of 25 Old 01-03-2007, 05:43 AM
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I have been doing research on the same topics as well...

Here are some model numbers I have found with cable card...not sure if any of them are still valid or available...

Sharp

LC-26GD6U
LC-45GX6U
LC-32D4U
LC-26D4U

LG

DU-42PY10X

Toshiba

32HL95
37HL95
32HLX95
42HL196
42LX196
47LX196

Samsung

LN-R408D

Phillips

32PF7320A

Feel free to add to it if anyone has found updates...
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post #7 of 25 Old 01-03-2007, 05:46 AM
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and as youve shown, only the sharp has 26 inch models with cable card now since sony stopped. just ridiculous.
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post #8 of 25 Old 01-03-2007, 12:14 PM
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overstock.com has a 32" and a 27" lcds with cablecard...

Philips 32PF7320A

Toshiba 27HL95
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post #9 of 25 Old 01-03-2007, 02:57 PM
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just looked at the toshiba 27hl85...no cable card. the 27hl95 is no longer on their website.
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post #10 of 25 Old 01-03-2007, 04:42 PM
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JVC current sets w/cable card slots

LT-40FN97
LT-46FN97
LT-40FH97
LT-46FH97
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post #11 of 25 Old 01-03-2007, 08:16 PM
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The main problem is that in a great many cases, maybe even the majority, cable card works poorly. The cable companies hate it and barely support it. Their techs know next to nothing about it and can't get it to work much of the time. Free services are not a great revenue generator for cable providers. Manufacturers are just following the market.

Oh and one of the most important reasons that CC has a low adoption rate is that two-way services aren't available with CC. So that means no guide, no pay per view and no VOD. Some TVs offer the TV Guide guide service, but that is still dependant on the cable company letting the data be broadcast, usually through a PBS station. Many cable companies are blocking the guide data.
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post #12 of 25 Old 01-04-2007, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fletch999 View Post

The main problem is that in a great many cases, maybe even the majority, cable card works poorly. The cable companies hate it and barely support it. Their techs know next to nothing about it and can't get it to work much of the time. Free services are not a great revenue generator for cable providers. Manufacturers are just following the market.

your first point is wrong. they work fine when the cable people know what theyre doing, and try enough cards until they find a good one.

your second point is correct, their techs are morons with CCs and their head end people arent much better. that is the REAL problem with CCs...proper training on them for their personnel.
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post #13 of 25 Old 01-04-2007, 06:45 AM
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He said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by fletch999 View Post

The main problem is that in a great many cases, maybe even the majority, cable card works poorly.

And then you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtrell View Post

your first point is wrong. they work fine when the cable people know what theyre doing, and try enough cards until they find a good one.

I don't know much about CC's but that seems like the same thing to me!
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post #14 of 25 Old 01-04-2007, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sievers View Post

He said:

And then you said:

I don't know much about CC's but that seems like the same thing to me!

no it doesnt...it means that some cards are flaky, but once you find one that WORKS and you WILL if you keep trying, then they work perfectly. once they fonud one that worked for me, it has worked fine for the 6 months ive had it.
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post #15 of 25 Old 01-04-2007, 09:14 AM
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which just supports what fletch999 said. It doesn't make him wrong, it proves his point.
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post #16 of 25 Old 01-04-2007, 09:19 AM
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I am still learning on some of this stuff but it appears that QAM tuners could in up replacing the cable cards. If folks can tune HD coming on over the cable line with the QAM, why use the cable card? I guess not every cable company sends out the signals... am I missing something?
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post #17 of 25 Old 01-04-2007, 10:06 AM
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sievers...it doesnt prove shhit...as long as they can bring out 3 cable cards and one works, then he gets he channels...if they try enough of them they can get every tv working with cable card...all that matters is that everyone that has cable card can get one to work...if they can, then it WORKS. doesnt matter if there are some bad cards out there, theres ALWAYS bad electronics out there of EVERY kind...

apollo, QAM tuners will not replace cable cards, because QAM is just the generic digital cable tuner. you will only get channels which the cable company passes for free...which in the case of most cable providers is just local digital channels only, not ESPN HD, HBO HD, INHD, or whatever. you need the cable card or a box to get those.
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post #18 of 25 Old 01-04-2007, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree w/ the post earlier that cablecard has limitations like no On Demand, no guide, etc. But I think these are important to people on their main TV but for a bedroom TV, Kitchen TV, Bathroom TV (not that I would ever want one), those things are really not as important.

As the prices on flat panels come done as they have done, people will want to buy them for these other uses so I would think the need for cablecard would go up.

I have a 56" DLP as my main TV and I would not even consider wanting/needing a cablecard b/c for my main TV I need (not want) a DVR so I would not need the cablecard feature. I have a 100" front PJ and I really would not care if it had cablecard (if that was possible) since I have a whole cabinet full of gear in a hidden closet and one more box is not even a bother.

But in my bedroom I don't want a box, and I don't think my situation is that unusual.

Hell I'm not in marketing or consumer research but that's what I think.

At this point I think the Panasonic plasma is my best option but I don't think I can buy the 600U model anywhere in a B&M store. I am not averse to buy online but it would be nice to be able to goto a store locally and pick it up even if the cost was slightly higher.
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post #19 of 25 Old 01-04-2007, 05:38 PM
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paulkahlon you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. cabel cards are PERFECT for secondary and bedroom TVS and the idiot mfr's are NOT PUTTING THEM IN the ones that would be used for that. i too did NOT want a cable box in my bedroom or kitchen. thats why when i get my 65 inch 1080p plasma, my 5070 will go in the bedroom with CC and my 26 inch sony will go into my kitchen with CC that it already has in my bedroom.
and you can buy a 600u in a best buy that has a magnolia store in it.
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post #20 of 25 Old 01-06-2007, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I looked up the Best Buy/Magnolia website and I don't have one within 200 miles. Thanks for the tip though b/c I had never heard of Magnolia and I would not have known to look.
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post #21 of 25 Old 01-06-2007, 04:13 PM
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The Hitachi plasmas for this year all have cablecard slots.

Including the 42"
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post #22 of 25 Old 01-06-2007, 04:30 PM
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thanks bearstork, but the whole point of this thread is that you cant find hardly ANY 26 inch and 32 inch LCD sets with cable card to use in the bedroom and kitchen. its well known that there are plenty of 42 inch on up sets with CC slots.
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post #23 of 25 Old 01-07-2007, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, I double checked on Hitachi and that is actually the one/only model that is available at CC at 42" w/ cablecard. So in terms of B&M this model is one of the few options. I have not researched it much b/c I read so many good things about the Panasonic 600U that I was trying to find it locally to no avail. Any positive or negative comments to the S69 model Hitachi?
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post #24 of 25 Old 01-08-2007, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtrell View Post

your first point is wrong. they work fine when the cable people know what theyre doing, and try enough cards until they find a good one.

your second point is correct, their techs are morons with CCs and their head end people arent much better. that is the REAL problem with CCs...proper training on them for their personnel.

His 1st point is correct, because they rarely work. Cable companies don't want it to work because they make less money on it.
They simply blame the TV manufacturer.

Manufacturers dont want to install it anymore because it rarely does work and they get bad press from the cable companies. Which results in returns and more money lost.

in 2008 cable labs new standard should be in the latests TVs. It will include 2way communication. It should be interesting to see if cable companies decide to leave the analog world and learn the new technology this time around...
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post #25 of 25 Old 01-08-2007, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipnotiq View Post

His 1st point is correct, because they rarely work. Cable companies don't want it to work because they make less money on it.
They simply blame the TV manufacturer.

Manufacturers dont want to install it anymore because it rarely does work and they get bad press from the cable companies. Which results in returns and more money lost.

in 2008 cable labs new standard should be in the latests TVs. It will include 2way communication. It should be interesting to see if cable companies decide to leave the analog world and learn the new technology this time around...

CableCARD 1.0 has always had the ability to be 2-way. "However the manufacturers of digital TVs requested that a host standard be developed that only had one-way capability." . . . "When a CableCARD 1.0 module is used with a two-way receiver that card supports all the necessary two-way functionality for VOD, SDV, and other interactive services." . . . "Beginning June 6, 2005, all CableLabs certifications of OpenCable products have been tied to CableCARD-2.0 (or CCIF-2.0) specifications. As of that date, new Cards and new Hosts have been certified to support the CCIF-2.0 and CCCP-2.0 specifications." http://www.opencable.com/primer/cablecard_primer.html

Here is a list of CableLabs certified/verified devices. http://www.cablelabs.com/udcp/downloads/OC_PNP.pdf
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