1080p Displays that I saw at CES 2007 (All types of Displays) - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 228 Old 01-31-2007, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Elemental1 View Post

You need 375MHz...nice try though.
Close but no cigar.



Wow, you've just established that you're even less intelligent than I previously thought you were, which is quite the achievement since I've established my sock drawer is smarter than you. You are just making stuff up.

1920x1080x120 + 15-20% extra for the vertical and horizontal blanking interval = 273 - 285Mhz.

Nice try though, but for the sake of everyone else, please stop posting until you get a clue.

Oh, feel free to tell me that I'm wrong, but not include any numbers or evidence to back up your claim.
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post #212 of 228 Old 01-31-2007, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post



Wow, you've just established that you're even less intelligent than I previously thought you were, which is quite the achievement since I've established my sock drawer is smarter than you. You are just making stuff up.

1920x1080x120 + 15-20% extra for the vertical and horizontal blanking interval = 273 - 285Mhz.

Nice try though, but for the sake of everyone else, please stop posting until you get a clue.

Oh, feel free to tell me that I'm wrong, but not include any numbers or evidence to back up your claim.

Of course you are wrong but I'm sure somebody will correct one of us at some point.
Going by your knowledge of the truth, I'd say odds are they will be correcting you.

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post #213 of 228 Old 02-01-2007, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Elemental1 View Post

Of course you are wrong but I'm sure somebody will correct one of us at some point.
Going by your knowledge of the truth, I'd say odds are they will be correcting you.

Wow, you're too predictable, and this just isn't fun anymore. Not only did I get the right answer, I successfully predicted your "response" (if you can call it that). Thankfully "people" like you pop up on this forum all the time so maybe some new "know it alls" will be more entertaining to screw with.

Oh, by the way, I'm eagerly awaiting my correction by "somebody". And, here's some reading for you if the words aren't too big for you to understand.
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post #214 of 228 Old 02-01-2007, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

Wow, you're too predictable, and this just isn't fun anymore. Not only did I get the right answer, I successfully predicted your "response" (if you can call it that). Thankfully "people" like you pop up on this forum all the time so maybe some new "know it alls" will be more entertaining to screw with.

Oh, by the way, I'm eagerly awaiting my correction by "somebody". And, here's some reading for you if the words aren't too big for you to understand.

LOL....you predicted only what I let you predict.
Here is your correction:

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/pipes.html

Hehe....

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post #215 of 228 Old 02-01-2007, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elemental1 View Post

LOL....you predicted only what I let you predict.
Here is your correction:

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/pipes.html

Hehe....

Great link and very informative. What do you see on the short horizon for advances in plasma & lcd video tech?
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post #216 of 228 Old 02-01-2007, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Elemental1 View Post

LOL....you predicted only what I let you predict.
Here is your correction:

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/pipes.html

Hehe....

And yet you continue to get even dumber...

I'm talking about digital bandwidth for a DVI link, that is the frequency of the data pairs on the DVI cable, and you link me to an article about the bandwidth needed for an analog component connection for 1080p.

Are you trying to look like a totally incompetent buffoon, or does that just come naturally?
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post #217 of 228 Old 02-01-2007, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by cajieboy View Post

Great link and very informative.

It may be a nice link and informative, but it has nothing to do with DVI frequencies or the argument (if you can call it that).
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post #218 of 228 Old 02-01-2007, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

And yet you continue to get even dumber...

I'm talking about digital bandwidth for a DVI link, that is the frequency of the data pairs on the DVI cable, and you link me to an article about the bandwidth needed for an analog component connection for 1080p.

Are you trying to look like a totally incompetent buffoon, or does that just come naturally?

LOL....if you think DVI and HDMI are analog then I'd say you were the buffoon here.
Do you actually have a clue of what you are talking about with all those specs of yours?
If the cable/connection has no impact then let me know when you get that S-Video passing HD working.
Also....did you see that post about 120Hz LCD's not helping much....which was our original issue.

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post #219 of 228 Old 02-01-2007, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cajieboy View Post

Great link and very informative. What do you see on the short horizon for advances in plasma & lcd video tech?

Well...LCD will be playing catch-up for a while and just wait for that new 1080p Pioneer Super Plasma to make that gap even bigger.

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post #220 of 228 Old 02-01-2007, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elemental1 View Post

LOL....if you think DVI and HDMI are analog then I'd say you were the buffoon here.
Do you actually have a clue of what you are talking about with all those specs of yours?
If the cable/connection has no impact then let me know when you get that S-Video passing HD working.
Also....did you see that post about 120Hz LCD's not helping much....which was our original issue.

Ok, I'm am done even acknowledging you. You are officially the dumbest person I've ever tried to converse with online.

You're the one who posted a link to the website about analog component bandwidth as evidence of the bandwidth needed for a dual link DVI connection for 1080p@120Hz, not me. I call you on it, and now your calling me a buffoon because somehow you've concluded that I think DVI and HDMI are analog? You're the one who cited analog component video bandwidth as proof dual link DVI needed 375Mhz of bandwidth!

Welcome to my ignore list!
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post #221 of 228 Old 02-01-2007, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elemental1 View Post

Well...LCD will be playing catch-up for a while and just wait for that new 1080p Pioneer Super Plasma to make that gap even bigger.

Yeah, I've been keenly interested in that all-new re-designed Pioneer 60" 1080p "SED Killer" Plasma since I first read about it several months ago. There's still very little info, and Pioneer is keeping everything close to the vest. I imagine this will be their new 60" Elite and command a high price at first.
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post #222 of 228 Old 02-01-2007, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

Ok, I'm am done even acknowledging you. You are officially the dumbest person I've ever tried to converse with online.

You're the one who posted a link to the website about analog component bandwidth as evidence of the bandwidth needed for a dual link DVI connection for 1080p@120Hz, not me. I call you on it, and now your calling me a buffoon because somehow you've concluded that I think DVI and HDMI are analog? You're the one who cited analog component video bandwidth as proof dual link DVI needed 375Mhz of bandwidth!

Welcome to my ignore list!

If so smart you are, why do you leave?
You can pretend all you like that I sent you to some unrelated website but it really is pathetic, really.
Please try to at least appear to not run away with your tail between your legs.

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post #223 of 228 Old 02-01-2007, 11:42 PM
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Man, just let it go. Geez, you guys have butted heads enough to last me for awhile. Just give it a rest, OK.
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post #224 of 228 Old 02-02-2007, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cajieboy View Post

Man, just let it go. Geez, you guys have butted heads enough to last me for awhile. Just give it a rest, OK.

They should get married.
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post #225 of 228 Old 02-02-2007, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

Ok, I'm am done even acknowledging you. You are officially the dumbest person I've ever tried to converse with online.

You're the one who posted a link to the website about analog component bandwidth as evidence of the bandwidth needed for a dual link DVI connection for 1080p@120Hz, not me. I call you on it, and now your calling me a buffoon because somehow you've concluded that I think DVI and HDMI are analog? You're the one who cited analog component video bandwidth as proof dual link DVI needed 375Mhz of bandwidth!

Welcome to my ignore list!

Hello Mr Stereodude. How are you? There is a tremendous amount of knowledge out there that changes a lot all of the time in our little consumer electronics world. SO its hard for one person to be right every time. Its cool to point misinformation out in my book but no sense beating someone over the head repetitively. We all make laughable knowledge errors around here, but we all know something too.

Happens to all of us...lets not knock each other silly and move on...
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post #226 of 228 Old 02-03-2007, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

I never said that the LCD monitor's electronics didn't accept 75Hz. I said that the LCD panel itself scans at 60Hz regardless of what the input signal is.

As a result it absolutely invalidates what you said about 75Hz not helping the problem any, so surely 120Hz won't help either. What I keep pointing out and you seem to intentionally keep ignoring is that even though you send the LCD monitor 75Hz, the LCD panel in the monitor only gets 60Hz, so your comment is totally off base.

I'm not quite sure this is correct. I could be mistaken but I think TFT active-matrix array refresh rates are governed by the pixel clock. The monitors set V-sync (usually 60 and 75Hz) can be disabled and the screen can address pixels up to a maximum equal to the pixel-clock speed. It would be easy to convert existing LCD screens to high refresh rates (>170Hz) by using simple software. But this would not benefit the viewing quality one little bit.

Futhermore, if you max out the v-sync (ie 75Hz) the panel does not update at 60Hz like you say?? it updates at 75Hz. Of course if your signal is only 60Hz you will get tearing as the buffers are not in sync.

Also, I think the point Elemental was trying to make was that with a higher refresh rate the response time must also increase to prevent ghosting. With 120Hz the frame residence time is now 8ms requiring much faster response.

Elemental and everyone else,

120Hz LCDs that are being advertised are not V-sync 120Hz displays. They all are upconverting 60Hz input signals to 120Hz with motion compensation or black frame insertion. Without this processing the 120Hz would be nearly useless except for reducing judder.


For a clearer explanation see this thread

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post #227 of 228 Old 02-03-2007, 06:32 AM
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I'm not quite sure this is correct. I could be mistaken but I think TFT active-matrix array refresh rates are governed by the pixel clock. The monitors set V-sync (usually 60 and 75Hz) can be disabled and the screen can address pixels up to a maximum equal to the pixel-clock speed. It would be easy to convert existing LCD screens to high refresh rates (>170Hz) by using simple software. But this would not benefit the viewing quality one little bit.

Futhermore, if you max out the v-sync (ie 75Hz) the panel does not update at 60Hz like you say?? it updates at 75Hz. Of course if your signal is only 60Hz you will get tearing as the buffers are not in sync.

You're correct if the LCD TV in question doesn't have a scalar or any video processing in it. If you convert DVI directly to LVDS, changing the DVI timing will change the LVDS output to the panel. I've done this at work many times before, and you will hit a point where the panel will no longer display an image because the timings are not within the tolerance of the panel. The panel wants 60Hz refresh and certain other timings, but has some tolerance on either side (usually fairly small) that it will still accept.

In the case of any recent LCD TV or PC monitor there is a video processor in it with at least one frame buffer (likely more). The video processing chip from Genesis, or Pixelworks, or whoever will accept just about any timings from a TMDS receiver (DVI), but it has a programed output for the LCD panel that doesn't change. We also use these at work. We program them output from the Pixelworks part to an exactly frequency (as detailed in the LCD datasheet) and that is exactly what the panel gets 100% of the time regardless of what the input signal to the Pixelworks chip is. You can send the TV or monitor 85Hz, but the panel still gets 60Hz. You don't see tearing because there is a frame buffer attached to the video processor.
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post #228 of 228 Old 04-23-2007, 06:50 AM
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Is there a zero missing in Haiers "Dynamic Contrast Ratio" from this CES pic posted here? They list the "Contrast Ratio" as 1600:1 on Costco. Very low prices for a 42" 1080p.


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