Samsung 81 series lcd vs. 8g kuro - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 797 Old 08-29-2007, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by oldcband View Post

I know from your post your a learned TV follower (this was meant to be a compliment, I've learned from your previous posts). Theres members that have alot more knowledge than me, but why would you buy this TV before some hard feedback? Its starting to appear theres a trend going on with these new revolutionary displays. That is they need more time to see what comes up.

Also black levels is how some judge displays but I'd rather have a correct working display than a TV that has great black levels with issues. Not saying this TV has issues but from a personal POV I was disappointed with this TV.

But TV's are a personal deal.

Oh I'm not going to order the TV before actually seeing it in person. I'll definitely compare the 6010 to other nearby displays when it's on the showroom floor which should be days. I saw the 5010 and it looks nice but had a demo loop so I couldn't compare to nearby TVs. A lot of the reviews has been positive regarding the Kuro (haven't seen 1080p reviews). I've seen the 720p versions in the store and the less light that is in the room the better they look to my eyes. The TV will got to my HT room in the basement and there are no windows so black levels are very important to me.

I noticed you said you saw a "haze" over the 1080p models. When I saw the 720p kuros near LCDs running a concert loop things were very bright on the LCDs the Kuros definitely had a darker look to them. I didn't have the remote so I couldn't make adjustments but I'm assuming that's what you mean by haze. And really that's my biggest hangup about plasma is I wish the picture were a little brighter. If my assessment of what you meant by "haze" is correct then that affect would be much less in a room without windows since contrast levels would need to come down significantly on LCDs thus making that "haze" affect much less in a light-controlled environment.

I've only glanced at the XBR LCD that you really like and while it looks nice it's black levels won't suffice for me. And at the 57" + size the 6010 and the Samsung 81 are really the only competitors for what I want. After seeing pics about the dimming zones being "lit up" on the 81s when bright content is around them poses a concern for me. Add in the fact with the reports coming in that on typical viewing material with the 81 series that areas that should be darker are actually lighter than they should be (like Ive seen on the 65 and 71s). I know that will bother me to some extent. If you take my SXRD for instance I am one that will crank up the black corrector to give darker shading and add picture depth that one who would lower that to get every detail out of the picture. Like the James Bond photos in the 81 thread I like Sony pics better than both the Samsungs. I also like the sharpness of the LCDs better than plasmas but again you each technology has its pros/cons for now anyways.

So basically the 81 is off of my list. Are the issues above enough to wipe it off my list? No. If pricing were close I'd spend a bit of time comparing the two. The 81 series 57"er is either $7k or $8k and there's no way I'm spending that much! Especially when I know I won't be content until I can get a 70 or 80" TV. The 6010 may not be a TV I'll be keeping for years but it will be a substantial improvement over my Panasonic. The way I see it is if I save $2k or more on this TV it will partially pay for another TV next year if I go that route. LED local dimming sounds very promising but until the prices gets a little better I'll just have to wait it out.

Now if my main viewing were in my family room and daytime viewing were my main concern then LCDs would be at the top of my list.
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post #182 of 797 Old 08-29-2007, 08:27 PM
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I don't think so. C-net is just assuming. In numerous UK reviews, the 42 inch is lacking shadow detail vs its 50 inch brother. The 50 inch also has a darker shade of black... all be its probably barely worth mentioning. The sizes seem to be quite different from one another. 1080p will have a darker shade of black.. but once again the difference seems miniscule in most situations.

Also with Samsungs 81, there's different amounts of local dimming clusters depending on screen size. The bigger the more clusters. You'll have to test all of those to find out I'd imagine. The more the merrier I'd hope is what that means.

assuming? but they already opted to only review the 50" due to the reason that they feel the review applys evenly to both sets, thats why they wont be reviewing the 42".

makes me wonder then how a 1080p set like the panasonic 700u stacks up, as many have said it's "darker".....dunno about it having extra shadow detail due to the resolution though.
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post #183 of 797 Old 08-29-2007, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by spincut View Post

assuming? but they already opted to only review the 50" due to the reason that they feel the review applys evenly to both sets, thats why they wont be reviewing the 42".

makes me wonder then how a 1080p set like the panasonic 700u stacks up, as many have said it's "darker".....dunno about it having extra shadow detail due to the resolution though.

Yes, they 'believe' the 42 should be similar to the 50. Doesn't mean it will. I am not saying they're not the same. I am saying based on the UK Reviews, the 508XD and the 428XD are different. Subtly different but different none-the-less.

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post #184 of 797 Old 08-29-2007, 09:11 PM
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I think they arent just guessing though, i beleive they made the judgement that they were similar enough, otherwise they would have reviewed both.......even still though, kind of wish Pioneer would make a PDP-42"10"
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post #185 of 797 Old 08-29-2007, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by spincut View Post

I think they arent just guessing though, i beleive they made the judgement that they were similar enough, otherwise they would have reviewed both.......even still though, kind of wish Pioneer would make a PDP-42"10"

Not true. They didn't review last years 4270 which was different from the 5070. Once again the 42 had a slightly higher black and what not. 6070 had the darkest black last year out of all the Pioneer models accoring to senor D-nice.

C-net does it all the time. I am sure both the 4280 and 5080 are great sets anyway. I wouldn't wait for C-net to review something so I would buy it.
My honest opinion about 1080p is its overatted. Way way way overatted. Even at the 46 inches I am staring at right now. I wouldn't concern myself with 1080p at 40-42 inches unless you're PCing it and surfing the internet.

I know you like the feeling of having all of the picture. But the truth is, how far you sit and how good your eyes are determine whether or not that 'lost data' is important. 1080p is necessary when your screen is humongous. Put your eggs in the basket where black levels and colors rule the day. You'll thank yourself for it.

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post #186 of 797 Old 08-30-2007, 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Oh I'm not going to order the TV before actually seeing it in person. I'll definitely compare the 6010 to other nearby displays when it's on the showroom floor which should be days. I saw the 5010 and it looks nice but had a demo loop so I couldn't compare to nearby TVs. A lot of the reviews has been positive regarding the Kuro (haven't seen 1080p reviews). I've seen the 720p versions in the store and the less light that is in the room the better they look to my eyes. The TV will got to my HT room in the basement and there are no windows so black levels are very important to me.

I noticed you said you saw a "haze" over the 1080p models. When I saw the 720p kuros near LCDs running a concert loop things were very bright on the LCDs the Kuros definitely had a darker look to them. I didn't have the remote so I couldn't make adjustments but I'm assuming that's what you mean by haze. And really that's my biggest hangup about plasma is I wish the picture were a little brighter. If my assessment of what you meant by "haze" is correct then that affect would be much less in a room without windows since contrast levels would need to come down significantly on LCDs thus making that "haze" affect much less in a light-controlled environment.

I've only glanced at the XBR LCD that you really like and while it looks nice it's black levels won't suffice for me. And at the 57" + size the 6010 and the Samsung 81 are really the only competitors for what I want. After seeing pics about the dimming zones being "lit up" on the 81s when bright content is around them poses a concern for me. Add in the fact with the reports coming in that on typical viewing material with the 81 series that areas that should be darker are actually lighter than they should be (like Ive seen on the 65 and 71s). I know that will bother me to some extent. If you take my SXRD for instance I am one that will crank up the black corrector to give darker shading and add picture depth that one who would lower that to get every detail out of the picture. Like the James Bond photos in the 81 thread I like Sony pics better than both the Samsungs. I also like the sharpness of the LCDs better than plasmas but again you each technology has its pros/cons for now anyways.

So basically the 81 is off of my list. Are the issues above enough to wipe it off my list? No. If pricing were close I'd spend a bit of time comparing the two. The 81 series 57"er is either $7k or $8k and there's no way I'm spending that much! Especially when I know I won't be content until I can get a 70 or 80" TV. The 6010 may not be a TV I'll be keeping for years but it will be a substantial improvement over my Panasonic. The way I see it is if I save $2k or more on this TV it will partially pay for another TV next year if I go that route. LED local dimming sounds very promising but until the prices gets a little better I'll just have to wait it out.

Now if my main viewing were in my family room and daytime viewing were my main concern then LCDs would be at the top of my list.

Thanks for your reasonable post. The "haze" I commented on probably is the darkness I don't like about the 6010 and 5010. It is dark and kind of looks a little smokey to me why I called it haze. And for what they want for these it should be perfect in my eyes.

The 81 series with JohnnyB's reviews with floating blacks should be a concern. Its a deal breaker as far as I'm concered. But before I completly dismiss it I'll see what the review at CNET says about "poor black level retention". If it says its average or good Johnny has some explaining to do.

Also FWIW I saw the Pio 6070 at Sam's and it was discounted more than half of what BB wants for the 6010. If not for my plasma phobia I would probably buy it. My plasma phobia is glare and black level retention but I know Pio doesn't suffer from the latter.

Yes I love the new XBR's and as far as the blacks are your concern there not mine. I'd rather have a good working television than good blacks that suffer with problems. Good luck what road you take.

These are just my opinions.
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post #187 of 797 Old 08-30-2007, 06:06 AM
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Thanks for your reasonable post. The "haze" I commented on probably is the darkness I don't like about the 6010 and 5010. It is dark and kind of looks a little smokey to me why I called it haze. And for what they want for these it should be perfect in my eyes.

The 81 series with JohnnyB's reviews with floating blacks should be a concern. Its a deal breaker as far as I'm concered. But before I completly dismiss it I'll see what the review at CNET says about "poor black level retention". If it says its average or good Johnny has some explaining to do.

Also FWIW I saw the Pio 6070 at Sam's and it was discounted more than half of what BB wants for the 6010. If not for my plasma phobia I would probably buy it. My plasma phobia is glare and black level retention but I know Pio doesn't suffer from the latter.

Yes I love the new XBR's and as far as the blacks are your concern there not mine. I'd rather have a good working television than good blacks that suffer with problems. Good luck what road you take.

If they turn off SmartLED. It will be good. If they turn on SmartLED it will be Poor. But once again... I am making progress w/ the later. Good thing too. Because if anyone is paying 4000 plus and not using SmartLED this thing is a ripoff.

Cripes some people think its a ripoff with SmartLED on too.

Besides C-net doesn't rate black level retention "average". Blacks are either stable or they're not. Good or Poor. Your only two options.

Then again... this 81 is the weirdest TV I've seen in my lifetime. No joke.

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post #188 of 797 Old 08-30-2007, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

If they turn off SmartLED. It will be good. If they turn on SmartLED it will be Poor. But once again... I am making progress w/ the later. Good thing too. Because if anyone is paying 4000 plus and not using SmartLED this thing is a ripoff.

Cripes some people think its a ripoff with SmartLED on too.

Besides C-net doesn't rate black level retention "average". Blacks are either stable or they're not. Good or Poor. Your only two options.

Then again... this 81 is the weirdest TV I've seen in my lifetime. No joke.

I trust your judgement Johnny.

These are just my opinions.
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post #189 of 797 Old 08-30-2007, 12:32 PM
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Not true. They didn't review last years 4270 which was different from the 5070. Once again the 42 had a slightly higher black and what not. 6070 had the darkest black last year out of all the Pioneer models accoring to senor D-nice.

C-net does it all the time. I am sure both the 4280 and 5080 are great sets anyway. I wouldn't wait for C-net to review something so I would buy it.
My honest opinion about 1080p is its overatted. Way way way overatted. Even at the 46 inches I am staring at right now. I wouldn't concern myself with 1080p at 40-42 inches unless you're PCing it and surfing the internet.

I know you like the feeling of having all of the picture. But the truth is, how far you sit and how good your eyes are determine whether or not that 'lost data' is important. 1080p is necessary when your screen is humongous. Put your eggs in the basket where black levels and colors rule the day. You'll thank yourself for it.

conversly no amount of tangential garuntees about how it doesnt matter will make me want to invest indefinetly in a 1024x768 screen, as i dont buy a new tv every 1-2 years to make it worth it.
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post #190 of 797 Old 08-30-2007, 12:43 PM
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conversly no amount of tangential garuntees about how it doesnt matter will make me want to invest indefinetly in a 1024x768 screen, as i dont buy a new tv every 1-2 years to make it worth it.

Understood. But you really really really don't want to miss out on the contrast either my friend. I personally feel if the TV doesn't have as good a black level as the Kuros or the Samsung 81, its not worth my time. It has a much more practical effect on picture quality.

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post #191 of 797 Old 08-30-2007, 03:24 PM
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Thanks for your reasonable post. The "haze" I commented on probably is the darkness I don't like about the 6010 and 5010. It is dark and kind of looks a little smokey to me why I called it haze. And for what they want for these it should be perfect in my eyes.

The 81 series with JohnnyB's reviews with floating blacks should be a concern. Its a deal breaker as far as I'm concered. But before I completly dismiss it I'll see what the review at CNET says about "poor black level retention". If it says its average or good Johnny has some explaining to do.

Also FWIW I saw the Pio 6070 at Sam's and it was discounted more than half of what BB wants for the 6010. If not for my plasma phobia I would probably buy it. My plasma phobia is glare and black level retention but I know Pio doesn't suffer from the latter.

Yes I love the new XBR's and as far as the blacks are your concern there not mine. I'd rather have a good working television than good blacks that suffer with problems. Good luck what road you take.

As far as the price goes I won't pay the MSRP at BB. There's close to $2k off from forum sponsors. No TV is perfect so we have to choose what plus'/minus' are most important to us. One thing you may want to consider too if you're going the LCD route is clouding that I've heard of. I didn't really realize that was an issue until reading up on the 71/81s. It sounds kinda like the discolored blacks on an SXRD. You won't see it in the stores but with dim lighting at home it's very noticable to my eyes. Good luck on your choice too! Hope you find a winner! Oh and another reason I'm waiting for a few weeks is just so I can hear if any new sets are going to fall out of the Sky this year with news from CEDIA next week.
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post #192 of 797 Old 08-30-2007, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

Understood. But you really really really don't want to miss out on the contrast either my friend. I personally feel if the TV doesn't have as good a black level as the Kuros or the Samsung 81, its not worth my time. It has a much more practical effect on picture quality.

As i said though, i wish Pioneer would invest in a "4210" type display, as 1024x768 still isnt enough to draw me in, although i wouldnt even be inquiring about it if i hadnt appreciated the quality of the Pioneer brand and what you're saying (also they apparently are the only plasma brand now that does not seem to have any kind of IR or burn in, which is something i'd rather not even have to notice or go out of my way to prevent).

Although conversly i wouldnt have any problem with either the newest Sony or Samsung LCD's if it wasnt for that horrible glare in the dark issue i experienced with my last one (something i still havent verified whether plasmas have or not, all i know is my old Sony Tube didnt).
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post #193 of 797 Old 08-30-2007, 04:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

Understood. But you really really really don't want to miss out on the contrast either my friend. I personally feel if the TV doesn't have as good a black level as the Kuros or the Samsung 81, its not worth my time. It has a much more practical effect on picture quality.

If you did a search of my past post on around the subject of resolution you would see that I told them what you are telling them a long time ago. I got attacked the same way I do when I discuss the superiority of SED technology.
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post #194 of 797 Old 08-30-2007, 04:22 PM
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If you did a search of my past post on around the subject of resolution you would see that I told them what you are telling them a long time ago. I got attacked the same way I do when I discuss the superiority of SED technology.

I know you did Auditor. And this is where I totally agree with you. Even crazies like us can agree on something.

And yes, spincut, we all want he ultimate display. 1080p, real blacks and the works. Hey, if you can live with the blacks on the Sony go for it. Samsung 81 has some sick blacks if you can live with some quirks, and a hell of a time calibrating. You'll need a pro on the 81 most defintely.

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post #195 of 797 Old 08-30-2007, 05:13 PM
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I think you should wait. Its bound to be something better coming down the road. Also, you should wait for a price drop on the 6010. I believe the days of expensive plasmas have come to end. Panasonic lesser performing PDP's are going out sell the Kuros, why? because they cost less. Pioneer will start dropping the price on these babies faster than those guys snitched on Michael Vick. Either they drop their prices or go under as a display manufacturer.

I just don't have the patience to wait. If I knew the Pioneer would drop considerably I'd wait. But I doubt that will happen. I spent a long hard 5 months slaving over finishing my basement (a first time and unskilled at that) for a nice home theater room/work out area. I've got the Panny in the basement and while I like it the PQ just isn't quite the same once you dim the lights. I'm more proud of my audio setup than I am the TV. The Pioneer should satisfy most of my craving for inadequate black levels. I really won't be content until I can get a TV a little brighter and sharper than plasma with perfect blacks and comes in a 70-80" size. That could be a loong wait. You obvioulsy have a LOT of patience if you are going to wait for SED. I too was excited when I heard about it but IF that technology comes out it could be years. LED LCD sounds like the future but LCDs are quite expensive once you go over 50".

The way I see it I'm a freak on this forum. I watch movies, I game, watch ONE TV show regularly during it's season, and occasional OTA sports and HD. I don't pay a dime for a TV service so I count it as having saved $50-$100 per month(that most peole spend on cable/sat service) that I can put towards a TV set each year plus what I sell the "old" TV for. I still shell out some $ each year but I get a lot of enjoyment out of it and others do to so to me it's worth it. It may be excessive, but I cut back in other areas to at least "justify" the purchase in my mind.
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post #196 of 797 Old 08-30-2007, 10:12 PM
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I know you did Auditor. And this is where I totally agree with you. Even crazies like us can agree on something.

And yes, spincut, we all want he ultimate display. 1080p, real blacks and the works. Hey, if you can live with the blacks on the Sony go for it. Samsung 81 has some sick blacks if you can live with some quirks, and a hell of a time calibrating. You'll need a pro on the 81 most defintely.

See though the Sony would have the same issue as the Samsung, if not worse since it's said to be even brighter, so i dont think i'd be any happier (Although the picture is indeed very good).

I'd see Pioneer upping the rather low resolution on its 42" before LCD's solve that glare issue (if they ever even do), only problem s either requires waiting and since i returned my last LCD over a month ago, i wanted a replacement for it soon, so it's a bummer i cant wait.

Or i wish the Panasonic 1080p set just performed a little better in terms of picture and IR (i had previously thought they still were the top with blacks and very close to pioneer, but not close enough right now it seems).
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post #197 of 797 Old 08-31-2007, 06:23 AM
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post #198 of 797 Old 08-31-2007, 09:22 AM
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Hey Sampo, remember this

After owning a 7g Pioneer, seeing an 8g... and now owning a 4681 I can safely say I am laughing my ass off at this. Oi.

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post #199 of 797 Old 08-31-2007, 02:32 PM
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After owning a 7g Pioneer, seeing an 8g... and now owning a 4681 I can safely say I am laughing my ass off at this. Oi.

Johnny before you guys have your fun, the Pio 5010 and 6010 are nothing to write home about. Maybe the is 5080 better but crushes blacks. The reality is nothing's perfect. Oh maybe the XBR4.

These are just my opinions.
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post #200 of 797 Old 08-31-2007, 02:42 PM
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After owning a 7g Pioneer, seeing an 8g... and now owning a 4681 I can safely say I am laughing my ass off at this. Oi.

So after spending time with the 81 are you just having fun or thinking about keeping it?
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post #201 of 797 Old 08-31-2007, 02:43 PM
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Johnny before you guys have your fun, the Pio 5010 and 6010 are nothing to write home about. Maybe the is 5080 better but crushes blacks. The reality is nothing's perfect. Oh maybe the XBR4.

If the XBR4 resembles anything like the XBR2 then I'll pass. At least as a true home theater television set. For a nice set in the living room for the family Xbr might be pretty sweet.

Message to manufacturers. Please, can someone other than Pioneer and Samsung make a TV that'll look good in the dark for the 'pickiest of the picky' and not screw up and get it into the market? Not all of us are fooled for bright whites that'll screw your eyes over.

Please... just please. Samsung at least tried w/ the 81 and I know sooner or later they'll get that local dimming down. Preferably before OLED hits. Sharp and Sony just keep talking about it to no end and haven't done anything. 2008 may be the year. TVs that can perform both in the dark and daytime. What an idea.

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post #202 of 797 Old 08-31-2007, 02:54 PM
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If the XBR4 resembles anything like the XBR2 then I'll pass. At least as a true home theater television set. For a nice set in the living room for the family Xbr might be pretty sweet.

So you haven't seen the XBR4? Everything has improved. Best TV out there at the moment.

These are just my opinions.
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post #203 of 797 Old 08-31-2007, 02:54 PM
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So after spending time with the 81 are you just having fun or thinking about keeping it?

Having fun? Yes. I'm enjoying for the first time 'true' black on a set. I don't think the Kuros can't get as dark as some scenes on the 81 series... but I know the blacks will be more stable and show more details on the Pio.

I am just ticked that nothing else is as impressive. I was truly considering buying the 81 series as my TV. And for awhile it looked like it was gonna be at least considered. Right now, unless something dramaticly changes about the color situation... it is going back. Sammy has an awesome potential with these tvs. Alot more clusters, and as people said more dimming capabilities will help this set tremendously. If Samsung can do that, and then decide to go back to the 65 series for its color accuracy, then I'll deam that the Kuros will not be the display to beat for home theater afficionados. If not, then OLED will be the only set that could.

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post #204 of 797 Old 08-31-2007, 02:56 PM
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So you haven't seen the XBR4? Everything has improved. Best TV out there at the moment.

I saw it at Circuit City and it looked like crap. It was the feed totally but unlike most people. I don't piss my pants at a show floor PQ. I get one under control and in the dim lights then make my assesment.

Mid color temperatures and dynamic modes never impress me.

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post #205 of 797 Old 08-31-2007, 02:59 PM
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Johnny,
If not the XBR4 then Kuro? I'd better get my eyes checked 5010 and 6010 looked pretty bad.

These are just my opinions.
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post #206 of 797 Old 08-31-2007, 03:02 PM
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Johnny,
If not the XBR4 then Kuro? I'd better get my eyes checked 5010 and 6010 looked pretty bad.

If you want me to play compare at the store with you. Then to be honest? The XBR4 looked worse than the Sharp LCD next to it. It also looked worse than its cheaper cousin the 3000... something something. It also looked worse than the previous XBR2.

Does the XBR4 look worse if I got these home and calibrated them? Gee... I DUNNO.

Like I said. I don't really care about in-store comparisons. If that impresses you? Or anyone else, that's fine. Get one in your home. Calibrate it. Watch in the dark and get back to me. If you only watch in the daytime, then any information we give eachother is pretty much worthless. So whether or not the 5010 or the 6010 impressed you in the store really doesn't matter to me.

I know if I got both those sets home... I already know the outcome if Sony didn't dramatically improve contrast.

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post #207 of 797 Old 08-31-2007, 03:07 PM
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Johnny
Well I don't have either in my home, but all I can go by is the store settings. Thats my conclusion. In fact the contrast on the XBR4 was tops. Now I can't comment on black levels, but all of them were in a dark area side by side including the Sammy's but no 81's in my area.

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post #208 of 797 Old 08-31-2007, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by oldcband View Post

Johnny
Well I don't have either in my home, but all I can go by is the store settings. Thats my conclusion. In fact the contrast on the XBR4 was tops. Now I can't comment on black levels, but all of them were in a dark area side by side including the Sammy's but no 81's in my area.

And that's your deal oldcband, and that's good if it works for you. I operate differently. I don't purchase displays that way. And that's what we'll have to agree on. If anything I love how the XBR4s look exterior wise... I don't need to take it home to decide that.

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post #209 of 797 Old 08-31-2007, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by oldcband View Post

Johnny
Well I don't have either in my home, but all I can go by is the store settings. Thats my conclusion. In fact the contrast on the XBR4 was tops. Now I can't comment on black levels, but all of them were in a dark area side by side including the Sammy's but no 81's in my area.

Now I even question this post. I've seen the XBR4 and Sammy 71 series side by side in CC and BB. Yes the XBR4 looks good in bright ambient light. However, when you dim the lights, the 71 takes the cake. The 71 is superior to the XBR4 when it comes to black levels. Niether can touch a Kuro or 81 series Sammy.

BTW, can we please refain from stating one panel looked bad in the store when you do not have the remote to adjust the settings? How can you make a subjective and/or objective opinion when you can't play with the settings?


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post #210 of 797 Old 08-31-2007, 04:02 PM
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Now I even question this post. I've seen the XBR4 and Sammy 71 series side by side in CC and BB. Yes the XBR4 looks good in bright ambient light. However, when you dim the lights, the 71 takes the cake. The 71 is superior to the XBR4 when it comes to black levels. Niether can touch a Kuro or 81 series Sammy.

BTW, can we please refain from stating one panel looked bad in the store when you do not have the remote to adjust the settings? How can you make a subjective and/or objective opinion when you can't play with the settings?

I disagree with the 71 having better blacks than XBR4.

But sure enough my next visit I will get the remote and try to see if I can get that haze out of the Kuro. Any suggestions what settings I should try? Let me know I'll try tomorrow.

These are just my opinions.
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