JVC HM-DH30000U Demo Tape - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 12-16-2001, 11:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I just got a JVC HM-DH30000U this weekend, and I was absolutely amazed by the picture quality of the machine when playing back the included demo tape. I own a SONY HDCAM HDTV Camcorder and Studio Deck, and I have been shooting HDTV material for several years. I have no idea how JVC has managed to get their equipment to perform as well as it does, but quite frankly the pictures matched or exceeded anything I have seen from the professional SONY equipment. There has been speculation that the reason the demo tape won't play back on the PV-HD1000 is that it is recorded at a higher bit rate. I know that the HDCAM, which is considered the "gold standard" for HDTV production work, has in reality throttled back the A/D processor to 1440 lines of resolution. Perhaps JVC managed to master their demo tape using a "tweaked" camera combined with a higher bit rate. Subjectively speaking, I've never seen better pictures. If this is what is possible from prerecorded movies, then I can't wait!

Arnold Chase:)
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post #2 of 22 Old 12-17-2001, 12:33 AM
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None of the other DVHS VCRs including the Japanese 30000 can display that demo tape.
The 30000U incorporates a JVC proprietary copy protection system called
"DTheater" which remains unavailable to the other 5c signatories.

Developed by JVC to supposedly mollify the studios, JVC is actually using it to corner marketshare.

A trojan horse betamax if you will.

Mitsubishi in particular is hopping mad about it.

If "DTheater" DVHS prerecorded software is marketed then only JVC decks will allow playback.

As it stands the 30000U is a fatally flawed piece of engineering and is destined to fail in the marketplace unless JVC addresses its shortcomings quickly.

A matching STB would sure help... :rolleyes:

"Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor not an engineer."
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post #3 of 22 Old 12-17-2001, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tmitchmd
None of the other DVHS VCRs including the Japanese 30000 can display that demo tape.
The 30000U incorporates a JVC proprietary copy protection system called
"DTheater" which remains unavailable to the other 5c signatories.

Developed by JVC to supposedly mollify the studios, JVC is actually using it to corner marketshare.

A trojan horse betamax if you will.

Mitsubishi in particular is hopping mad about it.

If "DTheater" DVHS prerecorded software is marketed then only JVC decks will allow playback.
Oh, God ... I had wondered about on-media encryption schemes. The public 5C and HDCP documents don't specify anything at all. They obviously need something, and they need something much, much, much better than CSS, or all the line protocol security in the world doesn't do them any good. But this proprietary effort from JVC ... shades of Divx Gold!

Then again, maybe they don't think that they need to encrypt the media. It's not as though you can read it with the naked eye. Maybe they figure that, if all legal devices use an active, secure line protocol to communicate, since the high-definition media is all new stuff (or at least radically new encoding) a thief would have to actually develop a transport to read the media (a ruinously expensive undertaking), or hack an existing one to circumvent the protection scheme. If a design was vulnerable to being jury-rigged to get around the protection scheme, it wouldn't matter whether you put encryption on the media or not.


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post #4 of 22 Old 12-17-2001, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by achase
...I was absolutely amazed by the picture quality...
It is an impressive demo tape.
Especially the shots of the pre 9/11 New York skyline.

"Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor not an engineer."
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post #5 of 22 Old 01-30-2002, 01:57 PM
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Will DTheater tapes allow full hi-def output on all video outs?

Henning
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post #6 of 22 Old 01-30-2002, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by achase
I just got a JVC HM-DH30000U this weekend, and I was absolutely amazed by the picture quality of the machine when playing back the included demo tape. I own a SONY HDCAM HDTV Camcorder and Studio Deck, and I have been shooting HDTV material for several years. I have no idea how JVC has managed to get their equipment to perform as well as it does, but quite frankly the pictures matched or exceeded anything I have seen from the professional SONY equipment. There has been speculation that the reason the demo tape won't play back on the PV-HD1000 is that it is recorded at a higher bit rate. I know that the HDCAM, which is considered the "gold standard" for HDTV production work, has in reality throttled back the A/D processor to 1440 lines of resolution. Perhaps JVC managed to master their demo tape using a "tweaked" camera combined with a higher bit rate. Subjectively speaking, I've never seen better pictures. If this is what is possible from prerecorded movies, then I can't wait!

Arnold Chase:)
No, JVC has said that your new machine WON'T playback the
prerecorded material they plan.

I want HDTV 'cause I'm nearsighted !
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post #7 of 22 Old 01-30-2002, 06:28 PM
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This is not what I have heard.

dave
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post #8 of 22 Old 01-30-2002, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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As I posted elsewhere, my HM-DH30000 deck has the words "D-theater" prominently displayed on the box!

I'm NOT worried...
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post #9 of 22 Old 01-30-2002, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by achase
[b]I just got a JVC HM-DH30000U this weekend
Arnold:
Have you noticed any audio dropouts or picture freezes with your unit so far? Others here who have purchased the US JVC 30000 model have complained loud and often about this...

HDTV Early Adopter
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post #10 of 22 Old 01-30-2002, 07:41 PM
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Havent seen one sign of it yet using the dtc100 firewire connected to it.

dave
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post #11 of 22 Old 01-30-2002, 08:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by RickD_99


Arnold:
Have you noticed any audio dropouts or picture freezes with your unit so far? Others here who have purchased the US JVC 30000 model have complained loud and often about this...
I unfortunately haven't had the time to extensively test it yet. I normally use the Panny combo for recording/playback. I'll try to make a point of testing both self-recorded and Panny tapes in the next few days.
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post #12 of 22 Old 01-31-2002, 10:06 AM
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Well one simple question is, what happens when you try and play the demo tape via the analog component outputs? Does it or does it not come out in full resolution? Certainly someone has tried it just to see.

Dan

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My mind is made up.
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post #13 of 22 Old 01-31-2002, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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See the reason for this subject in the first place - the demo tape can ONLY be played back on the JVC. And just to be overly clear, yes it was through the analog outputs to a monitor.
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post #14 of 22 Old 01-31-2002, 10:16 AM
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Thank you. I asked because I didnt see where you mentioned how you were viewing the tape. I realize the tape can only be played on this one particular deck. Point being, not *everything* that comes out of the component outputs is automatically down-rezzed, right?

So does that mean theres any chance in hell that the prerecorded movies will also come out in full rez.

Dan

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post #15 of 22 Old 01-31-2002, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DP1
So does that mean theres any chance in hell that the prerecorded movies will also come out in full rez.
Exactly what I want to know too. I would grab one of these suckers tomorrow if I thought this were the case, dropouts or not.

achase, were you playing back the demo tape via the component output or firewire?
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post #16 of 22 Old 01-31-2002, 10:55 AM
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He already said via component in his response to me a bit ago. But again, the demo tape is one thing, the prerecorded media is another in my book.

But hey, why would they even let the demo tape come out in full rez on the component outputs if it'll be the only thing that ever will? That would almost be like false advertising if I bought one today...watched the demo over and over...and then 6 months from now when I can buy the movies, it's a no-go in full rez.

Dan

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post #17 of 22 Old 01-31-2002, 01:28 PM
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The prerecorded movies will play back at full resolution via the analog component outputs of the JVC.

Is that clear enough?

"Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor not an engineer."
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post #18 of 22 Old 02-01-2002, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by h2ofun
Havent seen one sign of it yet using the dtc100 firewire connected to it.

dave
So your not using its own decoder but instead are routing the signal by firewire to the DTC 100 and using the DTC 100's decoder.

This is NOT the purpose of that machine. Why should everyone have to buy a 169 modified DTC 100 when they buy a JVC.

Of course you wont get the picture freezes from the DTC since those are are being caused by the JVC decoder.

This simply makes the JVC the transport, and since you are now using the DTC100's decoder I don't see how you will be able to play back the demo tape or the prerecorded content.

Bernhard
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post #19 of 22 Old 02-01-2002, 08:33 AM
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That's a very interesting point Bernhard raises.

If indeed Dave is able to use the 30000U just as a transport and playback the demo tape through the modified DTC 100, that might already defeat any planned downrez in the future.

Dave, did you indeed play the demo tape through the DTC 100?

And also interesting, did you try to use a Japanese 30000 to play this demo tape through the DTC 100 too? The Japanese 30000 does not play the demo tape alone, and if it did with the DTC 100, it would be great news.

Robert
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post #20 of 22 Old 02-01-2002, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Havent seen one sign of it yet using the dtc100 firewire connected to it.
If I were to give my interpretation of what Dave has stated, it seems that he means he has no problems with audio or picture from material he's recorded from his DTC-100 connected to the JVC via firewire.

Hopefully both Dave and Arnold can chime back in once they've had time to play with their new toys for a while.

I'm looking forward to obtaining one of these units, hopefully around the software release timeframe. I expect that they will be in the $1000 or less range by then. They can be had for around $1500 now from a few online vendors.

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post #21 of 22 Old 02-01-2002, 09:36 AM
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Lets see. If I put the demo D-THeator tape in the Japan JVC, it dies which tells me the smarts for D-THeator is clearly in the deck.

I need to try the other question since I have been asked this twice now and want to be 100% sure I remember what I saw.

dave
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post #22 of 22 Old 02-01-2002, 11:16 AM
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Glad I said I need to check. We had some many tapes going I didnt remember.

The D-Theator tape ONLY plays out of the US JVC D-theator deck.
Period. The DTC100 can not pass the stream either.

dave
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