Hollywood, DirecTV, and the Cable Industry want "Record Never" DVI outputs. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 9 Old 12-26-2001, 03:11 AM - Thread Starter
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The February 2002 Stereophile Guide to Home Theater contains a couple of different articles about this subject. (p.14 Defining Visions): It seems that cable operators are now acting like they never agreed to use the IEEE1394 connection, and that the cable industry is trying to get TV manufacturers to sign "onerous" liscense agreements before they would be permitted to build digital-cable ready sets. The cable liscenses require that HD cable signals fed to a set with a component or RGB input be downconverted to a resolution just above NTSC. DirecTV announced that all new HD receivers made to work with the satellite service must include the DVI interface. There was no mention of DTCP. One feature (not mentioned in the release) will be missing altogether, said the CEA's Petricone: the ability to record.

(p.34 CEDIA 2001 wrap-up): HDTV guru Michael Heiss said that Hollywood has vowed to "not let Napster happen to them", meaning they aren't very comfortable with hi-def signals traveling over such unencrypted analog cables as the connections we all have between our set top boxes and TV's. At the show, several manufacturers were showing sets with DVI inputs (read UNRECORDABLE!)

Is anyone up for another DIVX type battle, let's vote with our wallets again, it's the only language they will understand.

"DON'T BUY DVI!"

"Life, liberty, and the ability to timeshift".

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post #2 of 9 Old 12-26-2001, 07:34 AM
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Oh here we go again... Of course there will be attempts to push pay per "whatever". It's natural behavior. Will it work? Of course not! It never has, and never will.

Every successful media format has a certain degree of openness to it. DVDs are more popular now than ever - even after DeCSS - or maybe partially because of it. The pirating that takes place, as wrong as it might be, actually contributes the dominance of the format.

Besides, the "Napster" type swapping of ripped DVDs as MPEG4 files isn't exactly known for high quality picture quality - at least not compared to true High Def. It's just not worth my time.

I wish they'd just save us all the trouble and time and go for a reasonable solution - like 5C and Firewire...

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post #3 of 9 Old 12-26-2001, 02:58 PM
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Another thing that is really silly here is the notion that downrezzed HDTV signals will curb piracy. They won't. The piracy market is not known for it's high quality in fact some features are recorded off of camcorders smuggled into the theatre!

Now they will get a pristine composite or Svideo signal and even a clean component signal already compressed for them! Less bandwidth will make the HDTV output even easier (and faster for software filters) to line rate convert into very high quality black market DVD's.

And any analog based copy protection is easily hacked, i.e. Macrovision.

So piracy will continue with even better goods and the current adopters with the money and/or lust for HDTV will be comprimised!

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post #4 of 9 Old 12-27-2001, 08:50 AM
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This has always been my opinion as well. The reality is that the customer base that always pirates and never buys is the same customer base that does care if the movie is HDTV, DVD, or 3rd generation VHS. He/She doesnt care if its OAR or Pan&Scan. He/She doesnt care if its DD5.1 or Mono.

So, how is the downrezzed output going to curb piracy by even one download?

Andy K.
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post #5 of 9 Old 12-27-2001, 09:12 AM
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On the contrary, the more downrezzed this stuff is the faster and easier it will be to download. The best protection against napstering movies is to keept the movies as high rez as possible.


Bernhard
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post #6 of 9 Old 12-27-2001, 11:19 AM
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Napster has done very little to hurt the recording industry. But, it has the potential to reshape the business in fundamental and unpredictable ways. That's something that the RIAA is dead set on not allowing. Protect the status quo at all costs!! It's unclear if they are going to be successful since technology was well entrenched before the RIAA even saw private on-line music trading or direct artist on-line promotion and sales as a problem.

The MPAA want's to nip this problem in the bud. Don't allow technology to get ahead of their ability to control it. The real battle is almost entirely behind the scenes where large media conglomerates are trying to control the flow of information on the Internet. The Internet was designed to be content agnostic, but as media companies start to control larger and larger pieces of the internet there is a natural desire to sacrifice the openness of the Internet for the ability to control the data for commercial purposes. As many have pointed out, at some point the Internet as we know it will disappear and be replaced by "CommericalNet".

Of course, these companies don't have all their eggs in one basket. Controlling the consumer electronics industry is another aspect of their strategy. Getting Congress to believe that protecting IP with an "Iron Curtain" is the only way to ensure American dominance of the Internet age. So far things seem to be going their way and nothing I've seen seems to indicate that they will have any trouble doing exactly what they have set out to do. Welcome to future. Isn't it grand!?!

Also, the spell checker for the forum is no longer working as a free commercially supported service. Another victim of the current economic climate. :(
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post #7 of 9 Old 12-27-2001, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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My biggest concern is STB's that only have a DVI output, S-video output and a composite output, leaving us with no way to timeshift/record the full HD signal, we would only be able to view it in realtime HD. I have a feeling they are going to try push these DVI only outputs on the unsuspecting public and say that if we want to view their Cable/Satellite programming, we will have to have a DVI input capable display. The only way we will be able to stop them will be a "DIVX" type campaign.

I don't think they are at all concerned about piracy via the downrezzed component outputs. What they are concerned about is someone distributing a pristine digital HD copy of a movie for free download over the internet.

"Don't buy DVI"

RDave
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post #8 of 9 Old 12-28-2001, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RDave
My biggest concern is STB's that only have a DVI output, S-video output and a composite output, leaving us with no way to timeshift/record the full HD signal, we would only be able to view it in realtime HD. I have a feeling they are going to try push these DVI only outputs on the unsuspecting public and say that if we want to view their Cable/Satellite programming, we will have to have a DVI input capable display. The only way we will be able to stop them will be a "DIVX" type campaign.

I don't think they are at all concerned about piracy via the downrezzed component outputs. What they are concerned about is someone distributing a pristine digital HD copy of a movie for free download over the internet.

"Don't buy DVI"

RDave
I goes beyond time shifting. Analog still continues to be the interface of choice for HDTV interconnects. 1394 seems to be a good compromise. But if DVI picks up steam and manufactuures take sides as to which they will support, the market will stifle. DVI has a legnth problem. That fine for the person who stacks crap on top of their TV but for FPTV projectors or seperated component systems with a clean viewing field, this is a problem when you are limited to ten feet.

Higher end FPTV projectors and even high end RPTV's have a somewhat limited market. The very high end consumer units are made by small companies. How long will it take and how much will it cost them toi get DVI or 1394 licensing?

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post #9 of 9 Old 12-29-2001, 07:43 AM
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I don't think the MPAA is willing to agree to any compromise that would also be acceptable to consumers and the electronics, cable, and satellite companies.

So they are just stalling, but making an occasional announcement of progress for political reasons.

- Tom

Why don't we power our electric cars from greener, cheaper Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactors?

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