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Old 01-08-2002, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I have acheived a fair measure of success in
placing HDTV recordings onto a DVD using Divx
compression. The toolchain I have used is:

1. Hipix to .ts files.

2. bbdmux to split off video and sound
channels. There is a bbdmux2 program that
syncs to "video start", but in practice this
has not made a difference.

3. avisynth to convert the mpeg stream
files to avi files for input to programs,
and to resize 1080i downto 720p because
that plays better on a 1ghz machine.

4. azid to convert the .ac3 sound file split
off in step (2) to a .wav file.

5. Virtualdub to read both video and audio
portions created above and create a final .avi
file.

What I have seen is 1/3 to 1/4 the size of the
original mpeg-2 stream with good quality, which
I would describe as "virtually identical to
the source". The technique has promise.

What I have also seen is that these programs
crash for various reasons, or at random, or
fail to work on certain program material
inexplicably, or fail to work together with other
programs. Also, although I have seen good
sound sync on my test material, there does not
seem to be anything to keep them in sync, so
that the slightest disturbance throws the whole
process off.

I originally planned to do a web page, but right
now this is just an experimental process and not
a practical process, and I don't think anyone
is going to get serious use out of it.

I do hope that the various experiments done
on avs forum with HDTV encoding helps the various
program authors to think in terms of HDTV and
not just DVD. The most common thing I have seen
with these tools is that they refuse to accept
or crash when presented HDTV resolutions and
formats.

As for me, I start a new job on monday, so will
be otherwise occupied. I'd be happy to answer
any questions anyone here might have.
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Old 01-09-2002, 03:19 AM
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"What I have seen is 1/3 to 1/4 the size of the
original mpeg-2 stream with good quality, which
I would describe as "virtually identical to
the source".

Superb, Sam.

So what you have done is
1. Converted the MPEG2 to AVI then

2. Removed data to reduce this file to a lower resolution with PQ identical to the original.

Definitely in the "loaves and fishes category". This is great news. See if you can get the same success dropping it down to 480p. We might not need HDTV at all. And, maybe then we could archive our HIPIX files on DVD-R or something:)

Thanks
Joe
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Old 01-09-2002, 12:05 PM
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Try this...

1. bcdmux (my program) to MPEG-2 file.

2. Vidomi compression of mpeg-2 file.

This worked for me, at least at 720p.

Ben
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Old 01-09-2002, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by bencooley
Try this...

1. bcdmux (my program) to MPEG-2 file.

2. Vidomi compression of mpeg-2 file.

This worked for me, at least at 720p.

Ben
Questions: can vidomi reduce the resolution of a 1080 image ?

Have you been able to get good sound sync ?

Ben, you are doing what I think is the next needed step,
redoing some of the code. I look forward to seeing what you
come up with.
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Old 01-09-2002, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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[QUOTEDefinitely in the "loaves and fishes category". This is great news. See if you can get the same success dropping it down to 480p. We might not need HDTV at all. And, maybe then we could archive our HIPIX files on DVD-R or something:)

Thanks
Joe [/b][/quote]

I didn't say that. Your main interest right now appears to be
attacking people who don't agree with you. Trust me, I learned my lesson about attempting to answer your letters. Please leave me off your list.
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Old 01-09-2002, 01:43 PM
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That's neat. Since 1080i is interlaced do you see any combing on the resultant 720p output?
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Old 01-09-2002, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by ianken
That's neat. Since 1080i is interlaced do you see any combing on the resultant 720p output?
Pretty much all of the software I have has a
deinterlace checkbox, and I have been using it.
Further, I looked at before and after stills,
it really helps.
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Old 01-10-2002, 03:15 AM
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Samiam,
I tried using Vidomi and all it does it shut down as soon as I hit the convert button. Is there a good place for help with this? Is there another program that works better?

Thanks,
Gergg

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Old 01-10-2002, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by gergg
Samiam,
I tried using Vidomi and all it does it shut down as soon as I hit the convert button. Is there a good place for help with this? Is there another program that works better?

Thanks,
Gergg
Ben Cooley has been using that, you might
refer questions to him. I have tried a lot
of stuff, many solutions work for picture only.
The only one that worked all the way for me
is virtualdub as described above. Luck.
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Old 01-10-2002, 10:03 PM
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Sorry, meant to ask Ben. I have the first part of his formula working...

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Old 01-11-2002, 02:11 PM
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I have the GPL'ed source code to Vidomi, and I fixed that bug. One of it's routines does a quick scan, but it assumes the vertical resolution is less than 1024 (BAD).

I tried converting a small snippet of a 1080i file and it seemed to work.

As far as audio sync, I'm not sure. I can't get the files to play back in real time (my system is too slow, so I don't know. I uncheck the "Audio-Processing" tab. I'm thinking this causes it to directly copy the AC3 stream to the .divx file, but I haven't checked for sure.

What I probably should do is make sure the bcdmux starts the first video and audio frame on the exact same presentation timestamp. That will probably permanently fix the audio problem.

I'll post my hacked version of vidomi with the 1080i bug fix tonight if I can. I've also spent some time adding in native .TS file support into vidomi. It should be done 'hopefully' by this weekend. Vidomi is quite a bit easier to work with than FlaskMPEG, BTW, and I generally think it's a better piece of software. If there's a registration fee for the whole deal (player/encoder), I think I'd pay it once it actually works for us.
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Old 01-11-2002, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Questions: can vidomi reduce the resolution of a 1080 image?
My hacked version can now, and I have a working toolchain on it, so I can fix any problems.

Quote:
Have you been able to get good sound sync ?
I haven't even remotely got any sync at all. Any file that big on my computer just plays in jumps, so I wouldn't know. I'm not completely sure that BCDMUX correctly gets the right timestamps for the first frame, so there could be a problem. If somebody could test the playback of the MPEG files on a reasonably decent computer, I'd know for sure.

In any case, I think we can hack Vidomi to adjust the audio sync regardless of what the original sync was (even if it was unsynced from the network). An audio sync time offset setting in milliseconds would do the trick. A small sample convert, then a fine tuning of the offset would fix any sync problems no matter how bad they were or why they existed.

Quote:
Ben, you are doing what I think is the next needed step,
redoing some of the code. I look forward to seeing what you
come up with.
No sweat.
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Old 01-12-2002, 03:07 AM
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Quote:
My hacked version can now, and I have a working toolchain on it, so I can fix any problems.
Can you post the your version of vidomi with the 1024 v-res problem fixed?
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Old 01-12-2002, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
I haven't even remotely got any sync at all. Any file that big on my computer just plays in
jumps, so I wouldn't know. I'm not completely sure that BCDMUX correctly gets the right
timestamps for the first frame, so there could be a problem. If somebody could test the
playback of the MPEG files on a reasonably decent computer, I'd know for sure.
And so we have all arrived at the same place.
I used to think my 1ghz Athalon was fast, but
not anymore.

Ben, can I ask what processor you are running ?
With my 1ghz, what I see is HDTV movies that
start, halt and go a few times, then seem to get
it right and start moving correctly. However,
as documented elsewhere, the video/sound sync
never seems to recover from that event. For all
I know a 2ghz processor might fix all this, but
I wonder what is up with the final .avi that
it fundamentally cannot recover a/v sync. Ie.,
are we stripping off or perhaps not creating
the essential sync "tags" it needs ?

Note that I have a large mpeg-1/2/4 book now, so
you can look forward to lots of stupid insights
like this :)

Oh, yea, I too am looking forward to your hacked
vidomi. And my offer to web host you still goes.
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Old 01-12-2002, 12:13 PM
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>>> I haven't even remotely got any sync at all.
>>> Any file that big on my computer just
>>> plays in jumps, so I wouldn't know. I'm not
>>> completely sure that BCDMUX correctly gets
>>> the right timestamps for the first frame,
>>> so there could be a problem. If somebody
>>> could test the playback of the MPEG files
>>> on a reasonably decent computer, I'd know
>>> for sure.

Known working HiPix stream -> BCDMUX -> MPEG2 file.

Only thing I have that would open/play the
extracted 1080i MPEG2 was Cineplayer 4.

It played it with big pauses and jumps.
Sort of like it can handle the BP frames, but
every new I frame causes it to pause for
1/8second or something like that. Also, I had
to tell Cineplayer4 to "decode audio to
2chan dolby digital" otherwise the application
would crash. (no AC3/SPDIF passthrough).

System: PIII 933MHz/133bus RDRAM.
Radeon 32DDR 1920x1080@75hz.

It would appear that alot more CPU HP is needed
to pull this off.
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Old 01-12-2002, 02:21 PM
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Ben -

In my experiments with Avisynth/Virtualdub etc. I found if I converted to 720p I could play on my 866 mhz P3 I was using then.

Have you tried this? If so, does it have sound sync?

- Tom

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Tom Barry - Find my video filters at www.trbarry.com
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Old 01-12-2002, 08:10 PM
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I've used CinePlayer 4 and the AC3 seemed to work ok for me. I get about 3 fps in that program. In the elecard player, I get about the same. PowerDVD plays the AC3 audio but no video.
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Old 01-12-2002, 08:12 PM
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trbarry,

Could you try my program and see if it works. I can't even give you an idea of whether it works because my computer is far too slow.

You may want to download the HDTVtoMPEG2.exe program I've just finished. It has a nice windows interface.
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Old 01-12-2002, 08:19 PM
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Ben -

I just now downloaded all three files from you post in the HDTV forum. I'll give it a try right away. I'll post results soon.

I'd also be interested in you Vidomi source updates if possible. BTW, it looks like Vidomi is based upon DVD2AVI, which I have been tinkering with. DmimtryR over in the Doom9 DVD2AVI has provided me with some test SSE2 IDCT code which we are working on. It might also be useful in Vidomi.

- Tom (trbarry@trbarry.com)

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Old 01-12-2002, 09:55 PM
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I bcdmux'd a 14 minute segment of a 1080i movie. It plays on the ATI player Zoom player choppy, about 11 fps. But that is probably because it is using the Elecard filters. It also seems to work as input to DVD2AVI, at least in preview mode.

This is a newly built 1.7 ghz P4 but I don't have all the needed filters registered. I'll go hunt up what the names are and see if I can make a better filter graph with something that will use the Radeon LE hardware assists. I don't remember what the needed ATI filters are called but I remember there are numerous threads in the HTPC forum that mention them.

- Tom

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Old 01-13-2002, 01:03 AM
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There's just one bug in the pre scan file where there's an array overflow for a 1024 byte array in Vidomi. Once I fixed that, it encoded 1080i files fine.

As far as getting it to just read .TS files, I've got most of the code in, but I blew my free time today fixing up HDTVtoMPEG2. Anyhow.. hopefully I can get to it tomorrow.
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Old 01-13-2002, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by trbarry
Ben -

In my experiments with Avisynth/Virtualdub etc. I found if I converted to 720p I could play on my 866 mhz P3 I was using then.

Have you tried this? If so, does it have sound sync?

- Tom
I have noted that the raw 720p stuff as played
(in mpeg-2) does not run at full speed in my
1ghz athalon. Stripping off the sound and
converting to divx makes it run pretty well in
windows media player. With sound in, it runs
"right on the edge". I think that makes sense,
because the smaller file size makes up for the
extra time taken to render an mpeg-4 (over an
mpeg-2).

I am also (unfortunately) convinced that a faster
CPU is needed to play this game. There is a new
round of CPUs coming, that will increase the
top speed to 2.4ghz (intel) and 1.9ghz (amd).
This will also depress the prices on the 2.0ghz
and 1.7ghz stuff. So I am looking for that to
show up.
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Old 01-15-2002, 11:27 AM
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I'm really glad you guys are doing this and reporting the results. I've considered trying some of this, but I became afraid... I became very afraid. Anyway, good work!!!

Mike
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