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post #61 of 67 Old 02-09-2009, 12:42 PM
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Well, my complaint with The Market is that with this mandated changeover, while that sounds like a Good Idea, unless the Asian Manufacturers jump on board, you end up with a vacuum.



The types of products available for DTV/HDTV is shrinking in my opinion or at least not exploding.

Pioneer is actively selling NTSC DVD HDD units in Canada and seems uninterested to throw in an ATSC tuner.... which they already have!

I mean like they could produce a comparable unit for the US for about an extra 29 cents. Yet, it appears it isn't worth the effort? Could it be the ramifications of the Echostar lawsuit regarding DVR technology perhaps?
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What really stinks about this mandatory changeover is that TV's etc. were built with NTSC tuners up until about 1 year before the change. For the FTC to allow the manufacture of products doomed to obsolescence in a year is proof that the government basically lacked any kind of Plan for DTV adoption.
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There is another ugly fact: people were completely happy with their VHS. And as far as quality, they are quite happy with DVD. And one cannot say there is not a wide selection of DVD recorders out there. (of course, ironically, for archiving, VHS might actually be better for survivability. For sound, the ultimate archive is the vinyl phonograph record. It should work for 1000 years if played with the laser tonearm that was just barely developed in time. Show me some high tech that would claim that kind of life.)
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post #62 of 67 Old 02-11-2009, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6volt View Post

For sound, the ultimate archive is the vinyl phonograph record. It should work for 1000 years if played with the laser tonearm that was just barely developed in time. Show me some high tech that would claim that kind of life

Computer punch cards from the 70s?
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post #63 of 67 Old 02-11-2009, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6volt View Post

Well, my complaint with The Market is that with this mandated changeover, while that sounds like a Good Idea, unless the Asian Manufacturers jump on board, you end up with a vacuum.

The types of products available for DTV/HDTV is shrinking in my opinion or at least not exploding.

Pioneer is actively selling NTSC DVD HDD units in Canada and seems uninterested to throw in an ATSC tuner.... which they already have!

Yes, but the market's small, and it's a catch 22 - almost nothing airing in it (not enough to make reengineering worthwhile), so they don't reengineer it, so people keep buying NTSC equipment, and keep watching NTSC, so there's no desire for content aired via ATSC, thus no content. Vicious cycles 101.

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Originally Posted by 6volt View Post

I mean like they could produce a comparable unit for the US for about an extra 29 cents. Yet, it appears it isn't worth the effort? Could it be the ramifications of the Echostar lawsuit regarding DVR technology perhaps?

29 cents mortgaged out over how long? I doubt you could (you need an ATSC receiver, MPEG-2 decoder, scaler chip, MPEG-2 encoder - assuming you're not talking about making the recorder HD capable, which is a whole other mess), considering the cost of retooling existing production lines and so on. These sorts of "it only costs a little" statements rarely consider *all* costs involved, which are more than just the component parts.

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Originally Posted by 6volt View Post

What really stinks about this mandatory changeover is that TV's etc. were built with NTSC tuners up until about 1 year before the change. For the FTC to allow the manufacture of products doomed to obsolescence in a year is proof that the government basically lacked any kind of Plan for DTV adoption.

Yes, there was a lack of planning there, but also a lack of awareness of what's going on in the world on the part of the people who went out and bought NTSC TVs when ATSC was the clear, unquestionable future. Did the industry screw up? Sure. But the customers aren't blameless either. Inform thyself, dear consumer, or get burned. Caveat emptor.

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There is another ugly fact: people were completely happy with their VHS. And as far as quality, they are quite happy with DVD. And one cannot say there is not a wide selection of DVD recorders out there. (of course, ironically, for archiving, VHS might actually be better for survivability. For sound, the ultimate archive is the vinyl phonograph record. It should work for 1000 years if played with the laser tonearm that was just barely developed in time. Show me some high tech that would claim that kind of life.)

VHS went away because it was expensive to make media for it, and DVDs provided not only cheaper, simpler media (inject, press, done, instead of hundreds of fiddly little bits in each tape), but the benefits of non-linear playback, menus, and of course the fact that you're not implicitly destroying your recording every time you play it back. There are some losses (DVDs are certainly less sturdy than VHS tapes were), but overall the convenience went up. There will always be those that will hang on to the bitter, bitter end, but technology does move on. Should the car not have taken over because the horse and buggy were fine? (You can still use your horse and buggy, but the market for them is not what it once was.)

VHS recordings are fine, assuming (a) you can find a player in the far flung future (reminds me of an episode of Cowboy Bebop, which is set only ~60 years from now), and (b) the electromagnetic substrate the recording is encoded on doesn't flake, fail, or get erased in the meanwhile. Playing them back destroys them though - you can play your DVD as many times as you want and the recording isn't going anywhere, but to *read* that tape, you're putting a magnet right next to it - which slowly but surely wears down the electromagnetic signal encoded on the tape. Again, it's a tradeoff - have shorter potential lifetime, but no loss in repeated playbacks, or longer potential lifetime, as long as you never actually watch it.

As far as vinyl goes: If you kept your vinyl in an environmentally-controlled hermetically sealed enclosure, maybe you'd get somewhere close to your claimed 1000-year lifespan. In the real world, pressing and other manufacturing defects, heat, humidity, and other factors will cause warping, layer separation, and other problems to crop up. Besides, who can afford the super-ultra-high-end optical scanning playback systems you're talking about? I know they do exist, but they cost a *lot* of moolah. That's not a realistic acquisition, unless you're Donald Trump or something.
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post #64 of 67 Old 10-20-2011, 07:01 AM
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Hey guys, new member here. I found this old thread when looking for info on my Zenith HDR 230... it was stolen out of my house a few weeks ago. It looks like I won't be able to find another HDR 230, seeing as they've been out of production since about 2004, so just wondering what recommendations you might have for a similar product? A good HD picture quality in an OTA receiver plus full DVR capability - does such a machine exist anymore? Thanks for your help.
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post #65 of 67 Old 10-20-2011, 11:33 AM
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See the sticky thread at the top of this forum, "HDTV DVR Comparison - Consumer Owned Units".
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post #66 of 67 Old 10-20-2011, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MC Lew View Post

Hey guys, new member here. I found this old thread when looking for info on my Zenith HDR 230... it was stolen out of my house a few weeks ago. It looks like I won't be able to find another HDR 230, seeing as they've been out of production since about 2004, so just wondering what recommendations you might have for a similar product? A good HD picture quality in an OTA receiver plus full DVR capability - does such a machine exist anymore? Thanks for your help.

Keep your eye out on ebay. I picked one up for $60 a couple months ago, and another supposedly non-functioning unit for $20 about 2 months ago and gave it to my brothers family to use.
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post #67 of 67 Old 10-20-2011, 02:34 PM
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Thanks guys. After browsing a few other threads it looks like the TViX 6620 will do everything that old Zenith did, and much more. It was about time to upgrade anyway...

Still pissed about the theft out of my house though. I would have to imagine there aren't too many of those units floating around Charleston SC (where I live), I may peek into the pawn shops and see what I find.

qz3 - if either of those units had lots of opera and cooking shows stored on the HD it was mine!
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