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post #541 of 6344 Old 11-16-2009, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedjaR View Post

AFAIK, tru2way requires hardware capable of communicating back over coaxial (otherwise no cable company VOD at all, and no built-in SDV - that's why tuning adapter is needed). I'd be quite surprised if Moxi has that hardware in the units curently selling.

Like TiVo, the Moxi is a unidirectional CableCard (UDCP) device. CableLabs' specifically forbids the inclusion of functional two-way hardware in UDCP products.

Even if a future Moxi were to ship with tru2way, that wouldn't help with the guide data. true2way does not provide guide data in a format that third-party software can use; guide data is only available with tru2way in products that use the cable company's software and interface. Note SDV mapping does not exhibit this limitation, as that capability is provided by separate helper application that can work with a third-party EPG (in theory, at least).
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post #542 of 6344 Old 11-16-2009, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

OI did a real quick look-see and it SEEMED Arris might be actually branching into something new for them... from an engineering/design company to one that has actual products to sell. I have no information that Moxi was designed/engineered by Arris FOR Diego, or Diego did that themselves.

Well it seems Arris made a good start by lowering the price. I just placed an order and the Moxi + Mate is on back order so they are selling well for them.


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post #543 of 6344 Old 11-16-2009, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedjaR View Post

AFAIK, tru2way requires hardware capable of communicating back over coaxial (otherwise no cable company VOD at all, and no built-in SDV - that's why tuning adapter is needed). I'd be quite surprised if Moxi has that hardware in the units curently selling.

PedjaR,

Yup. Exactly. That's what I thought though I'm willing to have been misinformed. How long has Tru2way been in the market Place? Say, ~ 2 years? Moxi strikes me as a forward thinking company which is why I believed them. Or, as I said, perhaps I was misinformed. Considering they're brand new to the marketplace, generally the Moxi is a really good product. IMHO. Not perfect, mind you but pretty damned good for the first crack at the ball in the hurly-burly of consumer electronics. That said, their new owners might not buy into their seemingly innovative philosophy which probably will spell the death knell for them. In which case I made a poor decision and I will have an expensive piece of electronica cum paperweight. The three tuner model is a great coup, however.

J
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post #544 of 6344 Old 11-16-2009, 03:04 PM
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Does the 3-tuner option work with Verizon FIOS?

Is anyone using an external hard drive larger than 2 TB with the Moxi. Do larger drives than that run very hot or generate a lot of noise?

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post #545 of 6344 Old 11-16-2009, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericlhyman View Post

Does the 3-tuner option work with Verizon FIOS?

Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericlhyman View Post

Is anyone using an external hard drive larger than 2 TB with the Moxi. Do larger drives than that run very hot or generate a lot of noise?

There are no drives larger than 2TB. To get more than 2TB with eSATA, you have to use a RAID array with multiple drives. Multiple drives generate more noise than a single drive.
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post #546 of 6344 Old 11-16-2009, 03:13 PM
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What external hard drives does Moxi consider to be DVR-certified drives?

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post #547 of 6344 Old 11-16-2009, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Operon View Post

Yup. Exactly. That's what I thought though I'm willing to have been misinformed. How long has Tru2way been in the market Place? Say, ~ 2 years?

Well, it's been in the works for at least that long. The problem is, Digeo didn't have a say in the matter - the license terms under which CableCARD host devices are produced, CHILA (CableCARD Host Interface License Agreement) prohibits upstream communication hardware in non-tru2way licensed and certified equipment. So they can't just put it in there - there's no way they'd have passed licensing.

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Originally Posted by Operon View Post

Moxi strikes me as a forward thinking company which is why I believed them.

Well, they can only be so forward-thinking. The CableCARD Moxi box wouldn't exist if they hadn't agreed to the terms CableLabs puts forth.
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post #548 of 6344 Old 11-17-2009, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericlhyman View Post

What external hard drives does Moxi consider to be DVR-certified drives?

Look for the Hard drive to say that it is a dvr extender, such as http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-259-_-Product

In all actuallity you can use any external drive that has an eSata connection, although if it has a powersaving/stand by mode you may run into trouble.

What I do is that I have an internal eSata HDD and an external case. I had my HDD fail a month back and the cust service guy was a pain since it wasn't a DVR-certified drive, and said they couldn't support it. I finally got him to let me know the procedure of connecting the HDD (I wanted to find out if it was a dead hdd or if it was something else)

So if you are ok with not having the customer service people give you support for not having a recognized drive I would probably go with that route.

The plus side to having an internal hdd and an external enclosure instead of an external hdd is that you don't have to worry about sleep / stand by mode.
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post #549 of 6344 Old 11-17-2009, 06:48 AM
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I know I probably just missed this in the thread but I have a question. When you add an external drive do you lose the internal drive like the HR20's or does this add to the total capacity?

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post #550 of 6344 Old 11-17-2009, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

true2way does not provide guide data in a format that third-party software can use; guide data is only available with tru2way in products that use the cable company's software and interface. Note SDV mapping does not exhibit this limitation, as that capability is provided by separate helper application that can work with a third-party EPG (in theory, at least).

That confirms what I thought... the issue being the third party, be it Moxi or TiVo "could" cease supplying IPG data BUT the box remains viable, even though it will look like the rented box from the cable co. Kind of like a fail-safe... just in case variety!

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post #551 of 6344 Old 11-17-2009, 06:58 AM
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So it seems both TiVo & Moxi need new hardware to be . Not to mention any issues with the way the cable co. implements it on their end.

Bottom line is it most likely be a long wait for to be an actual factor, unfortunately.

Sure sounds like the whole cable card thing... customers wanted them, wanted them to fulfill their promise. Cable cos. did NOT want them to really happen, so the TV guys started dropped their end of the deal 2 years ago. Then irony of irony, the cable cos. started being required to use them in their STBs... BUT other than that, nothing else supported the cards!

Makes it a possibility much the same MAY happen with .

Too bad...

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post #552 of 6344 Old 11-17-2009, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyD View Post

I know I probably just missed this in the thread but I have a question. When you add an external drive do you lose the internal drive like the HR20's or does this add to the total capacity?

No it combines the space from your external and internal. So if your internal drive has a 500Gb capacity and your external is 1Tb, your total space is 1.5 Tb.
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post #553 of 6344 Old 11-17-2009, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derrick2020 View Post

No it combines the space from your external and internal. So if your internal drive has a 500Gb capacity and your external is 1Tb, your total space is 1.5 Tb.

Thanks, that is what I thought. I am really thinking about pulling the trigger on ordering a Moxi with a Mate.

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post #554 of 6344 Old 11-17-2009, 08:03 PM
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I am with Charter Communications in Pasadena, CA. Recently upgraded to a Moxi, but no clue which model. It must have a small HD because it only retains about 8 hrs. HD.

So, I got this 2T from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00..._ya_os_product

and set it up an hour ago.

The moxie software detected the new device, gave option (with warning) to format, which I did. It took only a few min.

Now when I check the space usage, my it shows only 2% used. Epic!

So far so good. I am not hacker-savvy, so I hope my next question has not already been asked and answered a million times. I tried to find it before posting.


How do I "get at" the content?

Am I going to be able to detach the 2T, connect to a PC and see the files? Edit the files?

I am after two things, neither of which I believe to be criminal.
1) I want to take snippets from this, parts of this, delete unwanted parts of that, and come up with the content segments I want for my own personal use.

2) backup. I definitely find things on cable I want to keep. If my content just hangs out on this external, I am going to load it up with enormous amounts of valued footage. Even if I can't "get at" the content, how can I at least back up this 2T with another one?

This is a 'library' situation.

Any direction, links or advice would be welcome

Thank you.
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post #555 of 6344 Old 11-17-2009, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by operaguy View Post

How do I "get at" the content?

Am I going to be able to detach the 2T, connect to a PC and see the files? Edit the files?

You can't. It's encrypted.

The TivoHD is still the only cable DVR that allows you to copy / download recorded files to a computer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by operaguy View Post

2) backup. I definitely find things on cable I want to keep. If my content just hangs out on this external, I am going to load it up with enormous amounts of valued footage. Even if I can't "get at" the content, how can I at least back up this 2T with another one?

You can record the program again and save it to a different external drive. I'm not sure if it's possible to duplicate a drive; I do know that the recordings on each drive are encrypted and tied to a specific Moxi; they won't work with another Moxi.
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post #556 of 6344 Old 11-18-2009, 06:29 AM
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8 hours sounds odd... that would imply an under 80G drive. Thought all Moxi's had 500G drives?

"Save to a different external drive" can be done on a Moxi?? That would imply an ability to have multiple volumes, something I really doubt, at least with SATA where one needs a separate controller for each volume. Or do you mean one can "fill up" one external, get another one, then when you want to see something on that first drive, hook it back and it's directory gets re-loaded? IF that is the case, that sure wold be a major feature to run in their marketing.

Doles anyone know about swapping out the internal drive for something larger?

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post #557 of 6344 Old 11-18-2009, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

8 hours sounds odd... that would imply an under 80G drive. Thought all Moxi's had 500G drives?

"Save to a different external drive" can be done on a Moxi?? That would imply an ability to have multiple volumes, something I really doubt, at least with SATA where one needs a separate controller for each volume. Or do you mean one can "fill up" one external, get another one, then when you want to see something on that first drive, hook it back and it's directory gets re-loaded? IF that is the case, that sure wold be a major feature to run in their marketing.

Doles anyone know about swapping out the internal drive for something larger?

You are right, it should be closer to 80 hours than 8.

If I understand correctly, on Moxi you can go back and forth between different external drives, while retaining recordings (basically, the "divorce" procedure does not lose any recordings, and "re-mary" procedure recognizes existing recordings). That is definitely nice, so you can archive some classics to keep permanently on one external drive and start using another as the first one fills up.
However, there is no way (AFAIK) to tell the DVR whether to record a specific show to an internal or external drive, short of keeping the internal drive full at all times so that everything is forced to go to the external drive. This is very clunky, but if you are using 2GB external drives, it may not be completely ridiculous.
While this is not as convenient as Tivo's copying to the computer, if you are not allowed to copy to the computer due to copyright issues, it sounds pretty good.
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post #558 of 6344 Old 11-18-2009, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

8 hours sounds odd... that would imply an under 80G drive. Thought all Moxi's had 500G drives?

The Moxi available for purchase has a 500GB drive. The Moxis sold to cable companies have smaller drives; the original high-definition Moxi for cable providers had a 80GB drive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

"Save to a different external drive" can be done on a Moxi?? That would imply an ability to have multiple volumes, something I really doubt, at least with SATA where one needs a separate controller for each volume. Or do you mean one can "fill up" one external, get another one, then when you want to see something on that first drive, hook it back and it's directory gets re-loaded?

It's the latter.

Moxi doesn't allow you to selectively move recordings to external drives like the Dish ViP722, so you can't use a specific drive for specific programs. But Moxi does allow you to fill up multiple drives, and you can connect/reconnect different drives to access those recordings. It's not like TiVo where the recordings are split between the internal and external, effectively limiting you to a single drive.

All recording are on the external drive are encrypted and tied to a ROM chip on the Moxi DVR, so they can't be used with a different Moxi.

Edit: PedjaR has it right.
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post #559 of 6344 Old 11-19-2009, 08:49 AM
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Ah, score one for Moxi on that. Not to mention it seems one CAN hook arrays up... there are 6T arrays in SATA RAID 5's out there; they COULD be compatible, so need for multiple drives is reduced.

Clearly Moxi has TiVo beat on storage.

TiVo isn't laying down either... their $650 1T XL just became a $500 1T XL, 420 at amazon. Tis COULD be a simple reaction to Moxi's move, or it cxould also mean a new box next year.

VERY interesting DVR times, don't ya think??

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post #560 of 6344 Old 11-19-2009, 08:52 AM
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I am not sure if Tivo is really putting up too much of a fight here.
$500 for the Tivo XL but you need to add subscription.
$500 for the Moxi HD. <---- total cost.
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post #561 of 6344 Old 11-19-2009, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

TiVo isn't laying down either... their $650 1T XL just became a $500 1T XL, 420 at amazon. Tis COULD be a simple reaction to Moxi's move, or it could also mean a new box next year.

It's both!
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post #562 of 6344 Old 11-19-2009, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acaoacao View Post

I am not sure if Tivo is really putting up too much of a fight here.
$500 for the Tivo XL but you need to add subscription.
$500 for the Moxi HD. <---- total cost.

Amazon.com is asking $499 for the Moxi and $428 for the TivoHD XL.

That's not an apples-to-apples hardware comparison, because the TivoHD XL has twice the capacity (1TB vs 500GB), plus built-in OTA and analog tuners. You can add external storage to either DVR, but you could also upgrade the standard TivoHD ($220 @ Amazon). That said, I agree that Moxi is the most cost-effective solution for digital cable, thanks to a lifetime subscription that is effectively half the cost of TiVo's.

TiVo and Moxi are different products and each has advantages over the other. TiVo's software is generally best for those that record/timeshift the vast majority of what they watch on a single TV, whereas Moxi's software is best for those that watch more liveTV and/or want to view their recordings on more than one TV. That's not to say Moxi isn't good for recording and timeshifting -- it is; TiVo just provides some record functionality not available on Moxi.
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post #563 of 6344 Old 11-20-2009, 11:12 AM
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Well I just placed an order for a Moxi 3 tuner with the Mate. Hopefully it is worth the money. The unit seems pretty sweet. Hopefully it will arrive pretty quickly. I will have to call Verizon to find out about getting a Cable Card and how long that will take. I let you know how everything goes. Now to also figure out how big of an external drive to get to mate up with my Moxi.

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post #564 of 6344 Old 11-20-2009, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyD View Post

Well I just placed an order for a Moxi 3 tuner with the Mate. Hopefully it is worth the money. The unit seems pretty sweet. Hopefully it will arrive pretty quickly. I will have to call Verizon to find out about getting a Cable Card and how long that will take. I let you know how everything goes. Now to also figure out how big of an external drive to get to mate up with my Moxi.

I ended up going with an internal Hard Drive with an external case. It ended up costing me $160 for both ($120 for the 1.5 TB Hard drive and $40 for the case)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817173042
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148337

If you end up getting a external drive make sure it is an eSATA drive that runs at 7200RPM and which doesn't have a power save mode

The power save mode is always the toughest to figure out, which is why I bought an internal HDD and an external enclosure. Internal HDD don't have a sleep mode.
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post #565 of 6344 Old 11-20-2009, 12:52 PM
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I also just pulled the trigger on a 3-tuner with a mate. I just hope the process of getting it to work with Comcast isn't too troublesome (but I guess I should wait until my box actually ships before requesting an appointment for a CableCard.) Now this weekend will be spent fishing Cat5e cable to the spots where this box now requires it.
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post #566 of 6344 Old 11-20-2009, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcvh View Post

I also just pulled the trigger on a 3-tuner with a mate. I just hope the process of getting it to work with Comcast isn't too troublesome (but I guess I should wait until my box actually ships before requesting an appointment for a CableCard.) Now this weekend will be spent fishing Cat5e cable to the spots where this box now requires it.

I did the same thing this week. You can access clear QAM channels without the need for a CC so you can still use the box if you want it all set up before you have a card installed. I won't be requesting an install for a week or two yet.

Moxi installation takes a long time. I think in total it took about 45 minutes to download software updates to both boxes and run a scan. For some reason the Mate doesn't acknowledge it's on my network even though it connects to the main box and the internet fine.


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post #567 of 6344 Old 11-21-2009, 06:21 AM
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Hmmm, that MAY imply that they ARE set up to d/l all of their software... so just MAYBE one can upgrade the internal drive?

Right now, it seems 1.5T drives have good price/gig... so best value. My inclination WOULD be to do that as opposed to an external drive (which would cost more).

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post #568 of 6344 Old 11-21-2009, 08:10 AM
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For the moment I'm content with the 500GB capacity over the 160 of the TWC 8300. In a year when the warranty has expired or a new and better box is released I might take a chance on replacing the drive.

It could be that the drive is locked to the Moxi in the same way that Microsoft lock their drives to the 360 or the software is stored partially or completely on the drive and the updates just override existing components.

Anyone have clarification on that?


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post #569 of 6344 Old 11-22-2009, 06:54 AM
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Reminds me... did you find out anything about what happens after the first year if something goes wrong?

The stuff TiVo does that I read here sounds great, but for some reason I can't find ANY of it ever stated in any way BY TiVo. Would hope Moxi would actually spell out their policy... post warranty.

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post #570 of 6344 Old 11-22-2009, 01:56 PM
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For anyone interested in Arris, this gives some infomation on plans.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External...xUeXBlPTI=&t=1

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