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post #31 of 6260 Old 04-11-2009, 12:15 PM
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Thanks Ken. Really looking forward to your and Daves reviews.

The software/guide I had with my previous Moxies was so much better than what we have now. I really dislike the ads all through the listings. And there are many other things, like no way to accurately jump past commercials, and the fact that the search function finds a show on an SD channell and then you have to physically scan the listings to find if and when it's broadcast in HD. This is a major PITA often you end up with a series recording set to the SD version with no way to change it, you have to delete it and find the listing manually to reset. If the show airs several days hence, it takes forever to scroll through all the listings.

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post #32 of 6260 Old 04-11-2009, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Just received my Moxi. I'm on FIOS and have not yet received the M-card. I should have it some time next week.

Thus far I've set up the unit for just the broadcast HD channels.

I think this is flat out the best looking guide, from both a functional and aesthetic standpoint, I've yet seen. BTW, I've seen some people say the unit doesn't have dual buffers...it does...or at least in the way it's currently configured in my setup.

Also, kudos to Moxi tech support. You actually get knowledgeable, friendly people who pick up the phone quickly.

So, so far so good, but the cc will be the true test.

And I was told by chat that FIOS doesn't support MCARDS.
Check to see if there is a menu that says "format hard disk".
Is anyone from Moxi in this thread?

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post #33 of 6260 Old 04-11-2009, 05:59 PM
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got my moxi hd dvr about a week ago. been using a tivo s3 for years and wanted to try something else. comments so far: love the ui. has some nice usability features. picture in guide, mini guide on bottom of screen, conflict resolution (something i can't believe tivo still does not have) and more. not thrilled with the remote control layout. one problem i am having is that my abc hd channel will not come through. on my 2nd m-card and same problem. waiting on response from moxi support. anyone have any ideas? i've obviously rebooted many times and removed and reinstalled the mcard a few times. still nothing. also happy to answer any questions about the box you might have although i'm not that technical.
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post #34 of 6260 Old 04-11-2009, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by kelliot View Post

And I was told by chat that FIOS doesn't support MCARDS.
Check to see if there is a menu that says "format hard disk".
Is anyone from Moxi in this thread?

Verizon FiOS now has M-CARDs in the the overwhelming majority of service areas.

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Originally Posted by dc661 View Post

one problem i am having is that my abc hd channel will not come through.

You might need to add an attenuator. If the signal is too strong, the Moxi won't be able to tune some channels.
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post #35 of 6260 Old 04-12-2009, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by dc661 View Post

got my moxi hd dvr about a week ago. been using a tivo s3 for years and wanted to try something else. comments so far: love the ui. has some nice usability features. picture in guide, mini guide on bottom of screen, conflict resolution (something i can't believe tivo still does not have) and more. not thrilled with the remote control layout. one problem i am having is that my abc hd channel will not come through. on my 2nd m-card and same problem. waiting on response from moxi support. anyone have any ideas? i've obviously rebooted many times and removed and reinstalled the mcard a few times. still nothing. also happy to answer any questions about the box you might have although i'm not that technical.

I got mine yesterday but am awaiting Comcast (on Tuesday) to hook it up. I do have a question: how is the fast forward/scan functionality? I only have experience with Comcast's DVR but I've heard that with Tivo when you're fast forwarding to skip a commercial and you press PLAY it actually rewinds a bit to take into account human reaction time (I usually end up having to rewind). Would love to hear that Moxi has something like this.
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post #36 of 6260 Old 04-12-2009, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

With TiVo, many customers are still on monthly or yearly subscription plans, so there's a strong incentive for another company to take over their customer list, should they ever go out of business. This is what happened when ReplayTV closed shop; another company took over the monthly, yearly, and lifetime subscribers.

Actually ReplayTV Customer Support wasn't included when DNNA sold ReplayTV:

http://www.dm-holdings.com/eng/items...ease_final.pdf
...D&M Holdings will remain the operator of the existing service contracts for current subscribers for the foreseeable future while DIRECTV will assume most of the other assets of the brand company...
http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/about/replaytv/
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post #37 of 6260 Old 04-12-2009, 06:07 AM
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skip a commercial and you press PLAY it actually rewinds a bit to take into account human reaction time (I usually end up having to rewind). Would love to hear that Moxi has something like this.

Can't say for sure about the new box, but my previous Moxies did this and it is a great feature. You scan till you see the show start, press play, and it jumps back just a little and starts at the beginning.

Dave
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post #38 of 6260 Old 04-12-2009, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Just received my Moxi. I'm on FIOS and have not yet received the M-card. I should have it some time next week.

Thus far I've set up the unit for just the broadcast HD channels.

I think this is flat out the best looking guide, from both a functional and aesthetic standpoint, I've yet seen. BTW, I've seen some people say the unit doesn't have dual buffers...it does...or at least in the way it's currently configured in my setup.

Also, kudos to Moxi tech support. You actually get knowledgeable, friendly people who pick up the phone quickly.

So, so far so good, but the cc will be the true test.

Moxi has an interesting GUI for sure. It's pretty and different from anything else yet released, defintely a player; the only GUI which integrates its EPG into the Menu! My GUI favorite remains ReplayTV's, both for across-the-room legibility and speedy intuitive navigation. Tripping through Moxi's Menu was bewildering at first until I got familiar with it. I initially confused Settings' Channel List with the EPG list.

Moxi tech support is exceptional, probably because it's in-house and the reps care about their product.

For me QAM channel mapping was a 'true test' as I'm using Moxi without CC's. Moxi's approach to channel mapping is different from TVGOS's, less flexible but much easier to accomplish. Moxi's channel mapping ends up looking like a CC channel map but of course only showing unscrambled channels.

I'm pulling a sly one by using the analog tuning dongle which Moxi provides to access standard-def premium channels from a Comcast STB which Moxi can then record. Used without a CC Moxi incurs no 'Additional Outlet Fee' from Comcast. Moxi does have dual buffers but with the analog tuning dongle can actually record 3 programs simultaneously.

I mapped analog channel 3 to Comcast's VOD channel 1 to provide 4 hour recording time blocs 24-7. Comcast's STB can be programmed to automatically change channels for recording to a VCR, which works perfectly with this scheme. A variant of the scheme would enable Moxi to record standard-def OTA channels from a manually tuned Coupon Converter Box.
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post #39 of 6260 Old 04-12-2009, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Currie View Post

I do have a question: how is the fast forward/scan functionality? ...I've heard that with Tivo when you're fast forwarding to skip a commercial and you press PLAY it actually rewinds a bit to take into account human reaction time (I usually end up having to rewind). Would love to hear that Moxi has something like this.

Moxi's FF/REW is remarkably similiar to TiVo's, with perhaps a bit less compensation. Skip is 30 sec. but can be changed to 3, 5, or 15 mins. Replay is 7 secs. The User Guide omits mentioning that back and next enable 15 min. jumps in the buffer or a recording.
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post #40 of 6260 Old 04-12-2009, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Currie View Post

I got mine yesterday but am awaiting Comcast (on Tuesday) to hook it up. I do have a question: how is the fast forward/scan functionality? I only have experience with Comcast's DVR but I've heard that with Tivo when you're fast forwarding to skip a commercial and you press PLAY it actually rewinds a bit to take into account human reaction time (I usually end up having to rewind). Would love to hear that Moxi has something like this.

I agree with fallingwater. Very similar to Tivo if you've used that. However, not sure the jump back goes far enough. I'm finding i still need to manually back up a few seconds if i want to catch the very beginning.
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post #41 of 6260 Old 04-12-2009, 09:08 AM
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An interesting note for those that are anal about their video quality. One of the things that bothered me a bit about the Verizon box (and any others I used from sat & other cable providers), was the upconversion quality from 720p to 1080i.

Since my Pioneer Kuro did a better job with 720p channels, I always attached an OTA antenna to it and watched my 720p OTA channels via the Pioneer tuner.

With the new Moxi, I'm seeing sharpness and overall PQ with 720p that equals that of the onboard Pioneer tuner. This makes my overall viewing easier since I don't feel any need to switch away from the Moxi box when watching 720p.

On the nitpicking side, I think Moxi should have provided a 1 minute skip rather than going from 30 seconds to 3 minutes. Another thing I've noticed and reported to tech support, is when switching from one HD channel to another via the channel up & down button, you occasionally get a slightly shrunken picture until the bottom channel banner disappears. Tech support tells me that's always been the case with their boxes, but nonetheless it's being passed on to engineering.
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post #42 of 6260 Old 04-12-2009, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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So it does do 30 sec skip? That's good to know. How's the responsiveness of the UI? Menu's have a good flow to them and slide into place right? There's virtually no aesthetics in the Comcast I-Guide DVR, and it looks like Moxi would be a great improvement.

So it does native resolution passthrough? I hate how the Motorola DVR only allows you to select ONE output resolution, forcing all other resolutions to go through extra lossy conversion steps.

Does it do caller ID on TV? The Comcast DVR just came out with that feature. I know it sounds trivial, but we really like it.

I'm highly interested in this box. The $800 price tag is steep, considering a PS3 comes with a blue ray drive and plays high end games. You mean to tell me a $400 PS3 with a blueray drive is half the price of a moxi? That means the tuners / cable card integration and software is all worth more than $400? You can't tell me this Moxi has the same horsepower as a PS3?

I wish they'd come out with an external add on for the PS3, so we could have an all in one game/dlna media center/dvr/blue ray player. There's that DVB-T PlayTV box in Europe that just came out, but no Cable Card US DVR. They could make a killing on that if they tried.
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post #43 of 6260 Old 04-12-2009, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by cypherstream View Post

So it does do 30 sec skip? That's good to know. How's the responsiveness of the UI? Menu's have a good flow to them and slide into place right? There's virtually no aesthetics in the Comcast I-Guide DVR, and it looks like Moxi would be a great improvement.

So it does native resolution passthrough? I hate how the Motorola DVR only allows you to select ONE output resolution, forcing all other resolutions to go through extra conversion steps.

I'm highly interested in this box. The $800 price tag is steep, considering a PS3 comes with a blue ray drive and plays high end games. You mean to tell me a $400 PS3 with a blueray drive is half the price of a moxi? That means the tuners / cable card integration and software is all worth more than $400? You can't tell me this Moxi has the same horsepower as a PS3?

The most expensive part of the Moxi and TiVo is the software, not the hardware. With the PS3, the bulk of the cost is in the hardware, with the software costs amortized across many millions of units. The substantial cost of competitive DVR software is the primary reason we don't see more choices in the market.

Example: In FY2009, TiVo sold $57.7 million in hardware for $41.4 million, plus it spent another $62 million on [primarily software] R&D and another $44.6 million to provide the guide data and related services. Their cost of the hardware accounted for less than 30% of the overall cost of the product.

Moxi sells even fewer units, so the cost of their software must account for an even higher percentage of the $799 price. Since Moxi includes a lifetime subscription, they've also got to add $120-$200 for the cost of the guide data (Tribune is ~$20/yr wholesale, but that's just for the data, not the infrastructure to deliver it).

The Moxi hardware itself probably costs no more than $200. Compared to the TivoHD, it is a far simpler design with no analog tuners, no A/D converters, no SD encoders, and no separate CableCard IC. For digital cable, simpler is better, because it means less components and drivers to consume limited SoC resources. Of course, Moxi also benefits from having a newer, faster Broadcom SoC. Based on previously released specs, Moxi appears to use a version of the BCM7400.
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post #44 of 6260 Old 04-12-2009, 05:20 PM
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I setup my Moxi today; I don't have the cable card yet though.

For some reason, it would do 1080p (even though my projector handles it fine for blurays etc). I had to keep it at 1080i.

I am pretty confused by the UI, but I guess I'll need to give it some time.
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post #45 of 6260 Old 04-12-2009, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Ian_Currie View Post

For some reason, it would do 1080p (even though my projector handles it fine for blurays etc). I had to keep it at 1080i.

As with the TiVo, Dish, and DirecTV DVRs, the Broadcom SoC in the Moxi only supports 1080p24, not 1080p60. At the moment, that support isn't really useful for anything, since there are no television channels delivered as native 1080p24 signals.
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post #46 of 6260 Old 04-12-2009, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Isn't the bcm7400 series in the motorola dcx? I know mso's are working on new versions of guides for newer platforms. I need to figure out if I can justify waiting for the rentable cable co solution or if I should jump on this. Now if it does do resolution passthrough and they will allow you to stream content from the PC than great! I wonder if it can stream h.264 or x.264 / xvi d / divx etc, I wouldn't have to plug my laptop in to the tv anymore. Although I like boxee's UI and wealth of online content and social features, I would hope that the moxi guys try to emulate that Internet content and social aspect in some way.

Sent from my iPhone.
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post #47 of 6260 Old 04-12-2009, 06:21 PM
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I wouldn't bother responding to cypherstream about the Moxi because he's a 'real' DVR wannabe - asks a lot of questions but is too cheap to spring for a non-cable-provided box.
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post #48 of 6260 Old 04-12-2009, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Actually I would spring for a moxi if the features are right. I haven't sprung for a TiVo for their aged, stretched and blurry SD interface. I could justify loosing VOD for a nice HD UI that has a modern flow, but I will not sacrifice VOD for that 8 year old TiVo UI. The TiVo UI never interested me, but the moxi screenshots look great.
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post #49 of 6260 Old 04-12-2009, 06:51 PM
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Please, who gives a damn about the UI. Do you want a box that does what you want it to do, or not? I don't like the Tivo UI either, but it's a damn sight better than the Moto crap that Comcast foists upon the masses here (and it's not blurry SD btw, it's in 720p but doesn't take advantage of HD sets). OnDemand is junk for the most part, and Tivo has signed an agreement to provide an OnDemand-like facility later this year anyway. And you won't ever get VOD with the Moxi.

Give it up, cypher. You'll ask a lot of questions about the Moxi, but you know you won't pull the trigger.
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post #50 of 6260 Old 04-12-2009, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Currie View Post

I setup my Moxi today; I don't have the cable card yet though.

For some reason, it would do 1080p (even though my projector handles it fine for blurays etc). I had to keep it at 1080i.

I am pretty confused by the UI, but I guess I'll need to give it some time.

I hated the Moxi interface when I first got one many years ago. Needless to say it grew on me. What I liked the most was how if you held channel key down it would zip through the channels.

Ken Elliott
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post #51 of 6260 Old 04-12-2009, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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If I'm paying for a box to own, I want to own a first class, first rate DVR, that includes the whole package along with UI.

I can build a PC for $800 that runs circles around the Moto or Tivo hardware. The only caveat is the Cable Card tuners are OEM only.

If by god Dave Zatz or Ben D. say that this box is the Cadillac of DVR's then yes I will buy one, take a picture of it and post.

This Moxi interests me much more than a Tivo ever did, so yes, I am interested.
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post #52 of 6260 Old 04-13-2009, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

The most expensive part of the Moxi and TiVo is the software, not the hardware. With the PS3, the bulk of the cost is in the hardware, with the software costs amortized across many millions of units. The substantial cost of competitive DVR software is the primary reason we don't see more choices in the market.

Example: In FY2009, TiVo sold $57.7 million in hardware for $41.4 million, plus it spent another $62 million on [primarily software] R&D and another $44.6 million to provide the guide data and related services. Their cost of the hardware accounted for less than 30% of the overall cost of the product.

Moxi sells even fewer units, so the cost of their software must account for an even higher percentage of the $799 price. Since Moxi includes a lifetime subscription, they've also got to add $120-$200 for the cost of the guide data (Tribune is ~$20/yr wholesale, but that's just for the data, not the infrastructure to deliver it).

The Moxi hardware itself probably costs no more than $200. Compared to the TivoHD, it is a far simpler design with no analog tuners, no A/D converters, no SD encoders, and no separate CableCard IC. For digital cable, simpler is better, because it means less components and drivers to consume limited SoC resources. Of course, Moxi also benefits from having a newer, faster Broadcom SoC. Based on previously released specs, Moxi appears to use a version of the BCM7400.

Doesn't Moxi share software from their cable co. boxes in this new standalone?

The analog dongle provides Moxi's SD encoder and A/D converter, no? The Moxi glitches I've experienced have been from Moxi's interfacing with the dongle. Moxi is apparently using a customized version of the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1950, limited to analog reception only. The full featured version retails at a list price of $150 so Moxi's must be much cheaper.
http://registration.hauppauge.com/we...roduct=hvr1950

What do you mean by stating that Moxi has no separate CableCard IC; that it's integrated into the BCM7400 while TiVo's is on a separate chip?
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post #53 of 6260 Old 04-13-2009, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

The Moxi glitches I've experienced have been from Moxi's interfacing with the dongle.

I've posted about Moxi on the TCF S3/HDTiVo Moxi thread, including an exchange of emails with Moxi Support, in part regarding the dongle:

If settings of a recording from the analog dongle are changed while the recording is ongoing Moxi consistently freezes and reboots. At first I thought this glitch was going to be a deal-breaker, but as the workaround is not to modify the settings until the recording is over the only thing apparently lost is the ability to extend a recording on the fly. 'Keep until' can be extended after a recording is finished. The problem doesn't exist when recording from the digital tuners.

Hopefully you'll be able to duplicate the problem (it's consistent and repeatable) and make a software revision. It may be a deal-breaker for some and in any case is a significant flaw.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...05#post7204205
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post #54 of 6260 Old 04-13-2009, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

Doesn't Moxi share software from their cable co. boxes in this new standalone?

Much of the code is shared between the Moxi 3012 and standalone Moxi, both of which are Moxi's first Broadcom-based DVRs. Past Moxis were based on PC-like hardware.

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The analog dongle provides Moxi's SD encoder and A/D converter, no? The Moxi glitches I've experienced have been from Moxi's interfacing with the dongle. Moxi is apparently using a customized version of the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1950, limited to analog reception only. The full featured version retails at a list price of $150 so Moxi's must be much cheaper.

I'm sure Moxi does not pay anywhere near $150 for the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1950. That said, Moxi probably still pays significantly more for the "dongle" than the necessary parts would have cost them if integrated internally. But forgoing integrated analog support undoubtedly saved them a substantial amount of money in design complexity.

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What do you mean by stating that Moxi has no separate CableCard IC; that it's integrated into the BCM7400 while TiVo's is on a separate chip?

That's my understanding, yes.
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post #55 of 6260 Old 04-13-2009, 05:21 PM
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At this point there's an excellent chance my Moxi is going back. It appears that FIOS is incredibly incompetent when it comes to cable cards. I had similar frustrations with them when I had an HD-Tivo.

First, many in FIOS have no idea of the difference between S-cards and M-cards. Second, they promised me an M-Card was in the mail...that was a lie. Two people within FIOS confirmed my M-Card had been ordered and was scheduled to arrive this week. I was VERY insistent that it had to be an M-Card and I was ensured that it indeed it was. Further, I was told upon receiving it, I would need to call tech support to get it paired. That was fine and totally expected.

When calling to get a tracking # today, I was told a) a tech appointment had to be made to install a cc since they don't mail them and b) FIOS does not yet have M-cards. I spoke to several people in FIOS tech support, customer service and sales. I asked why I was told by two people in two departments, that I was being sent an M-Card. Nobody had any idea why I was given this 'misinformation'.

I was on with Moxi tech support and again, they are great. But even they were unable to resolve this issue at this point. FIOS tech support insists they have never had M-cards but would probably have them in the future.

At this point I warn everyone with FIOS to be very careful when ordering ANY device that requires M-cards. Dealing with CC's and FIOS can be one of the more frustrating experiences.
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post #56 of 6260 Old 04-13-2009, 06:28 PM
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When calling to get a tracking # today, I was told a) a tech appointment had to be made to install a cc since they don't mail them and b) FIOS does not yet have M-cards. I spoke to several people in FIOS tech support, customer service and sales. I asked why I was told by two people in two departments, that I was being sent an M-Card. Nobody had any idea why I was given this 'misinformation'.

Unfortunately, Verizon FiOS will not ship CableCards under any circumstances.

To the representative on the phone, it looks like they can place an order to ship a CableCard, just as they do the STBs and DVRs. Indeed, they can submit an order. But the order will not be fulfilled. Any CableCard order without an accompanying installation is automatically canceled by the system. The reps on the phone have no control over this. They are told this during their training course, but not everything they are told is retained.

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At this point I warn everyone with FIOS to be very careful when ordering ANY device that requires M-cards. Dealing with CC's and FIOS can be one of the more frustrating experiences.

Verizon does have M-CARDs now, just don't expect them to ship you one. Because they won't. Ever.

Note Verizon's system does not differentiate between M-CARDs and CableCards. Their system simply says "CableCards" and there is no method in place to request anything more specific. That said, the older single-stream cards were discontinued about 13 months ago and are no longer available at all in most FiOS service areas. Installers will usually call 45-60 minutes before they arrive, so you can confirm on the phone that they have a M-CARD before they reach your home.
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post #57 of 6260 Old 04-13-2009, 07:13 PM
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Thanks much bfdtv. It would have been nice if I had gotten this straightforward info from Verizon themselves.

I now have an appointment scheduled for next Monday and it looks like I'll have to keep my fingers crossed as to which card is being brought out. Hopefully the N.Y. area is out of CCs.
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post #58 of 6260 Old 04-14-2009, 12:16 PM
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I've posted about Moxi on the TCF S3/HDTiVo Moxi thread, including an exchange of emails with Moxi Support...
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...05#post7204205

I just got off the phone to Moxi support, during which I checked to see that they received the email quoted in the TCF post, to which I haven't yet got a reply. (They did and promised I will!) I asked how their system for linking an external HDD works; whether it is more like TiVo's 'HDD marriage until divorce' or Echostar's 'HDD serial partnership'.

At this point I was informally told that any number of external HDDs, while registered to only one Moxi recorder, can be swapped in-and-out one-at-a-time to enable unlimited storage on that Moxi. As stated above, I was promised a definitive follow-up email.
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post #59 of 6260 Old 04-17-2009, 09:47 PM
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I'm curious as to how Moxi gets listings. Is it similar to the Tivo download?

Bob

New Sig under construction.
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post #60 of 6260 Old 04-17-2009, 10:14 PM
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I'm curious as to how Moxi gets listings. Is it similar to the Tivo download?

Bob

Yes it's similar to Tivo. You can use Ethernet, PoE, or Wireless via a game adapter.
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