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post #631 of 6294 Old 11-28-2009, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

Don't get me wrong, the plan is to get the 370 now and the Moxi early next year. I'm not overly concerned about Netflix anywhere except in the family room where the main TV and AVR are located. The questions were just for info to understand the capabilities. Netflix, etc., would still be nice in the bedrooms and leaving a notebook on for PlayOn would be no problem. In fact, it wouldn't be all that hard to add a wire for the notebook that would be used the most when our daughter is in her bedroom. Truth be told, I already have the cables to wire all 3 notebooks.

I read those reviews and they seemed to favor the 390, so I think the 370 is still a good choice. The main TV is an older CRT-base Hitachi 65" with Component and DVI, so I don't know that I'd notice any difference in playback quality between models until this TV needs to be replaced.

We watch almost everything recorded, so "live" on the Mate is not an issue. If need be, we can always split the cable and also feed the QAM tuner. I assume "live" on the Mate is going to limit how many programs can be recorded at one time. If all 3 TVs are watching "live", I assume nothing can be recorded until a tuner is freed up.

I've heard Tivo will have a new Tivo HD available next year and cableco's, at least Cox, may start releasing newer Cisco DVRs to go along with their new IPG software. Normally, I'd be looking forward to the changes, but the continuing monthly cost is really bothering me these days.

I think the 390 is simply the 370 with a built in WiFi card. The LGs supply Netflix without ANY additional anything, just hook them to your router.

I think Arris is saying they will update the Mates to allow "live" viewing.

TiVo is another story... their sub numbers seem to be back to 2004 levels. They "seem" to be uber interested in collecting patent infringement $$$$. Their recent price drops COULD be 100% due to the Moxi price drop and not necessarily an indicator a new model is about to be announced.

I'm still tossing around router ideas... I now have zero need for wireless, but who knows when I may need to have it. Any opinion on what the best non-wireless routers are?

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post #632 of 6294 Old 11-28-2009, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

If I get all this, how am I going to find time to watch all that will be available to me?

Boy, THAT is the real issue. Every time I start lusting after terabytes of DVR storage, I think it means having more stuff that I'll never, ever get to actually use!

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post #633 of 6294 Old 11-28-2009, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by NickyD View Post

I just got off of the phone with Verizon. They are sending a tech out on Wednesday to install my MCable Card to the tune of $80!

It seems the Cisco adapters TWC uses limit a Moxi to 2 tuners (I assume TWC uses said adapters in all it's markets... they may not) so it might be interesting to find out if the TAs Verizon uses are capable of 3 tuners... and if said adpaters are the ones Verizon uses in all it's locations.

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post #634 of 6294 Old 11-28-2009, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

It seems the Cisco adapters TWC uses limit a Moxi to 2 tuners (I assume TWC uses said adapters in all it's markets... they may not) so it might be interesting to find out if the TAs Verizon uses are capable of 3 tuners... and if said adpaters are the ones Verizon uses in all it's locations.

Hey Riverside Guy,

I'm probably just uptown from you. I've had the Moxi for ~2 mos now. Fairly stable. Generally, very pleased. Now have the Mate which works flawlessly. More to your point. Simply, have MCard. No Cisco anything hanging off the box for me. (Can't see why my Mcard wouldn't work with three tuner model.)

Not having to pay TWC monthly STB & remote rental fees? ...Priceless.

J

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post #635 of 6294 Old 11-28-2009, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

It seems the Cisco adapters TWC uses limit a Moxi to 2 tuners (I assume TWC uses said adapters in all it's markets... they may not) so it might be interesting to find out if the TAs Verizon uses are capable of 3 tuners... and if said adpaters are the ones Verizon uses in all it's locations.

Verizon FiOS does not use SDV, and has no plans for SDV, so there is no need for a tuning adapter. With Verizon FiOS, you'll be able to use all three tuners on all channels.

Every cable operator with Cisco/SA headend equipment and SDV uses the same Cisco STA1520 with the same two tuner limit. Cox and some other operators with Motorola headends are testing a Motorola MTR700 for SDV; that TA supports four tuners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

There's one issue I see w/Lifetime... it's tied to the specific box. Should that box fail after 3 years, it will cost 350 bucks to be back in business. It would be 150 for the new box AND a 200 fee to "transfer" the lifetime to the new box.

Why would Moxi be any different? The lifetime subscription is tied to their unit, too. If your Moxi dies after three years, you pay $500 for a new one.

Edit: No longer true! Moxi now charges a flat $75 fee + parts cost for repairs after the warranty expires.

The overwhelming majority (95+%) of TiVo failures occur when the drive goes bad, and the same will probably be true with Moxi. Most new TiVos and Moxis will probably "die" after 3-4 years, as that seems about the average lifetime for a drive in a DVR. With TiVo, restoring operation involves a well-documented, 35-45 minute procedure to replace the drive.

From what I understand, Moxi stores its software on flash, so it may only be necessary to swap out the hard drive. It may not be necessary to restore a saved/downloaded copy of the software to a new hard drive. Until someone tries it, we won't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

Their recent price drops COULD be 100% due to the Moxi price drop and not necessarily an indicator a new model is about to be announced.

TiVo referred to a new product for Best Buy (early 2010) during each of its last two earnings announcements. TiVo mentioned "interface enhancements and developments;" they've also made references to more cost effective hardware.

My bet is that TiVo does away with analog support, as that's a big chunk of their cost. TiVo can't really compete with Moxi on total cost [with lifetime] until they eliminate the NTSC decoders, analog/digital converters, and dual MP@ML encoders used to record two analog channels.
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post #636 of 6294 Old 11-28-2009, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Operon View Post

Hey Riverside Guy,

I'm probably just uptown from you. I've had the Moxi for ~2 mos now. Fairly stable. Generally, very pleased. Now have the Mate which works flawlessly. More to your point. Simply, have MCard. No Cisco anything hanging off the box for me. (Can't see why my Mcard wouldn't work with three tuner model.)

Not having to pay TWC monthly STB & remote rental fees? ...Priceless.

J

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Cool, good to hear it working out of my head end.

It's not the authorization device (the MCard) that can cause an issue with the third tuner, it's when we need a tuning adapter. We have the head end structure for SDV (TWC even had a press release about it), but it hasn't been actually used yet. As soon as TWC-NYC starts using SDV, the third tuner will no longer function. Of course, there are imponderables, will TWC switch hardware for a TA compatible with more than 2 tuners (doubtful), will Arris figure a way around it (maybe), will it be 2-3 years before TWC-NYC has any SDV (maybe, but doubtful). Not to mention which I have no idea IF it impacts the SDV issue or even when an actual box is out AND TWC-NYC supports .

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post #637 of 6294 Old 11-28-2009, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

From what I understand, Moxi stores its software on flash chip, so it is possible that one will only need to swap out the hard drive. It may not be necessary to restore a saved/downloaded copy of the software to a new hard drive. Until someone tries it, we won't know.

TiVo referred to a new product for Best Buy (early 2010) during each of its last two earnings announcements. TiVo mentioned "interface enhancements and developments;" they've also made references to more cost effective hardware.

My bet is that TiVo does away with analog support, as that's a big chunk of their cost. TiVo can't really compete with Moxi on total cost [with lifetime] until they eliminate the NTSC decoders, analog/digital converters, and dual MP@ML encoders used to record two analog channels.

Ah, thanks for the info! IF it's software was on a EEPROM/"flash chip" then that certainly suggests an ability to swap out the internal drive for a larger one. AND that should something go bad, one CAN swap the drive to see if that is the issue... knowing what is necessary for the box to run is already onboard.

Not to mention that even the supposed policies I indicated came from posts ON AVS which I couldn't seem to be actually stated by the companies. Somehow I'd be nervous talking to, say, TiVo about how they are supposed to do x, "because some guy posted that on AVS."

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post #638 of 6294 Old 11-28-2009, 02:37 PM
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I asked about Moxi HD out of warranty repair. Here is their response.

Following the warranty expiration, the current repair cost will have a flat $75 labor fee plus parts


Quote:


Thanks for your interest in Moxi. We received your email with your question and are happy to help.

The Moxi HD DVR is the best HD DVR on the planet because of its Emmy award-winning interface and it's suite of online networking and multimedia home entertainment capabilities. It's also the only HD DVR with no monthly fees. (check out our website - www.moxi.com - for full details).

The Moxi HD DVR comes with a full warranty similar to other products in your home such as your LCD or Plasma TV to cover against any unforeseen issues. MOXI has a standard one year warranty from the original ship date. During the first 90 days, your warranty covers both parts and labor. After 90 days, and for the remainder of the one year warranty period, your warranty covers parts.

Should your Moxi need repair, you simply call our Customer Service desk and they will provide the address of our US based service center to send the unit for repair. It couldn't be easier. Following the warranty expiration, the current repair cost will have a flat $75 labor fee plus parts. The life-time service is transferrable should you gift or sell your Moxi HD DVR as well as any remaining warranty.

We are available to answer any additional questions you might have and don't forget that the Moxi HD DVR has a 30 day money back guarantee.

Again, thanks for your interest and we look forward to you joining the Moxi family.

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post #639 of 6294 Old 11-28-2009, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by acaoacao View Post

I asked about Moxi HD out of warranty repair. Here is their response.

Following the warranty expiration, the current repair cost will have a flat $75 labor fee plus parts

That is very good to know. Sounds like the repair policy may have changed since launch. Or I was misinformed. Either way, I stand corrected.

That is definitely an advantage for Moxi. TiVo charges a flat $150 fee to replace after the warranty expires, but also charges an additional $199 lifetime transfer fee after three years.

Edit: I updated the DVR comparison chart to reflect that.
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post #640 of 6294 Old 11-28-2009, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

That is very good to know. Sounds like the repair policy may have changed since launch.

That is definitely an advantage for Moxi. TiVo charges a flat $150 fee to replace after the warranty expires, but also charges an additional $150 lifetime transfer fee after three years.

Hmmm, could swear it was $200 for the transfer after three years with a lifetime sub. The excuse was "because it's tied to the machine, not the customer."

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post #641 of 6294 Old 11-28-2009, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

Hmmm, could swear it was $200 for the transfer after three years with a lifetime sub. The excuse was "because it's tied to the machine, not the customer."

That was a typo. Fixed.

As a correction to my comparison table, someone just posted this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by boblablaw View Post

Actually, [with the new 3-tuner Moxi] you can use the analog dongle and 3 digital tuners all at the same time [to record 4 shows]. You can simultaneously record 3 digital + 1 analog (w/the dongle) while watching a recording and streaming live or recorded TV to 1 or 2 Mates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boblablaw View Post

Also, the new 3 tuner Moxi has twice the memory (512MB), so it navigates faster and can handle the extra tuner and two Mates more easily.

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post #642 of 6294 Old 11-28-2009, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

Ah, thanks for the info! IF it's software was on a EEPROM/"flash chip" then that certainly suggests an ability to swap out the internal drive for a larger one. AND that should something go bad, one CAN swap the drive to see if that is the issue... knowing what is necessary for the box to run is already onboard.

FWIW, earlier this week, I began noticing that my Moxi HD was a lot louder than I ever remember it being before. So I stopped by their Live Chat and asked what the procedure was for replacing a bad HD. The rep said they could be replaced but I would lose all of my recordings. I then asked if it was something I could do myself or would I have to ship it to Moxi. He replied that it would need to be sent to them.
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post #643 of 6294 Old 11-28-2009, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

It's not the authorization device (the MCard) that can cause an issue with the third tuner, it's when we need a tuning adapter. We have the head end structure for SDV (TWC even had a press release about it), but it hasn't been actually used yet. As soon as TWC-NYC starts using SDV, the third tuner will no longer function. Of course, there are imponderables, will TWC switch hardware for a TA compatible with more than 2 tuners (doubtful), will Arris figure a way around it (maybe), will it be 2-3 years before TWC-NYC has any SDV (maybe, but doubtful). Not to mention which I have no idea IF it impacts the SDV issue or even when an actual box is out AND TWC-NYC supports .

Too bad the TA doesn't just limit 2 of the tuners to the SDV channels and still allow the 3rd one to work with all the other channels. Don't be in too big of a hurry to get a TA though until you know which channels are SDV. The last time I checked here, SDV was pretty limited and didn't affect any HD channels. So, unless something changes, I'll be a happay camper with 3 tuners.

Cheers, Dave
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post #644 of 6294 Old 11-29-2009, 06:40 AM
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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post17618100

The links to boblablaw in the above post don't work. Has his info been verified?:
Actually, [with the new 3-tuner Moxi] you can use the analog dongle and 3 digital tuners all at the same time [to record 4 shows]. You can simultaneously record 3 digital + 1 analog (w/the dongle) while watching a recording and streaming live or recorded TV to 1 or 2 Mates.

If not, I've got a Moxi, Mate, and dongle. I've never used the Mate but picked it up when on sale for $199 (the dongle was free).

What do I have to do to verify or disprove whether Moxi has 4 tuner capability?
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post #645 of 6294 Old 11-29-2009, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongRufus View Post

FWIW, earlier this week, I began noticing that my Moxi HD was a lot louder than I ever remember it being before. So I stopped by their Live Chat and asked what the procedure was for replacing a bad HD. The rep said they could be replaced but I would lose all of my recordings. I then asked if it was something I could do myself or would I have to ship it to Moxi. He replied that it would need to be sent to them.

Welllll, TiVo would say the same thing. For sure, they do not d/l the full software suite, which is why an internal swap involves the step with a computer to get the OS from the current drive and write it to the replacement. My GUESS is a Moxi CAN follow a similar system IF someone had the inclination to write it. Then again, they seem FAR more flexible about adding external storage... including multi-disc arrays.

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post #646 of 6294 Old 11-29-2009, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

Too bad the TA doesn't just limit 2 of the tuners to the SDV channels and still allow the 3rd one to work with all the other channels. Don't be in too big of a hurry to get a TA though until you know which channels are SDV. The last time I checked here, SDV was pretty limited and didn't affect any HD channels. So, unless something changes, I'll be a happay camper with 3 tuners.

Similar here... we got the head end infrastructure for SDV, but don't really have all that much need right now. We STILL have another ~30 analogs that COULD mean another 100 HD channels... but we're at 116 and there just aren't all that many more to be had anyway.

I find it a tad odd they don't offer the 3 tuner box by itself, say for another 100... say 600 bucks. I mean there MUST be some like me with only one big HD display...

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post #647 of 6294 Old 11-29-2009, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post17618100

The links to boblablaw in the above post don't work. Has his info been verified?:
Actually, [with the new 3-tuner Moxi] you can use the analog dongle and 3 digital tuners all at the same time [to record 4 shows]. You can simultaneously record 3 digital + 1 analog (w/the dongle) while watching a recording and streaming live or recorded TV to 1 or 2 Mates.

If not, I've got a Moxi, Mate, and dongle. I've never used the Mate but picked it up when on sale for $199 (the dongle was free).

What do I have to do to verify or disprove whether Moxi has 4 tuner capability?

I searched for boblablaw. His stats show he has only 9 posts and the last one was in Jan 08, so I'm not sure where the links came from.

At any rate, FAQ #14 at www.moxi.com is a bit ambiguous. It says:
Quote:
The Moxi HD DVR is optimized to work with Digital Cable service. For the support of analog cable channels, you would need an accessory called an analog dongle available here. It plugs into the USB port on the Moxi HD DVR. Using this, you will have full DVR support, as well as the other features that the Moxi HD DVR provides, but would only be able to record a single analog show at a time. The HD channels will be discovered by the Moxi automatically, and you would have the capability to record two shows at a time.

This seem to say you can record 1 analog program with the dongle while recording 2 HD programs with the Moxi tuners. I assume the FAQ was written before the 3-tuner Moxi was released, so it would follow that the dongle simply adds a separate analog tuner (hence the high cost at $130) to the mix giving you access to 4 channels total with the 3-tuner Moxi. The easiest way to find out is to plug your dongle in and see what you get. Is there a reason you don't want to do this?

Cheers, Dave
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post #648 of 6294 Old 11-29-2009, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

I assume the FAQ was written before the 3-tuner Moxi was released, so it would follow that the dongle simply adds a separate analog tuner (hence the high cost at $130) to the mix giving you access to 4 channels total with the 3-tuner Moxi.

The dongle is just the Hauppage 1950, nothing specific to the Moxi.

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/produc...a_hvr1950.html

Anyone tried any other USB tuners?

If you have a tuning adapter of course then you can't use it anyway since the adapter uses the single USB port on the Moxi. The Mate has two USB ports but I can't see a reason why it would. It would have made more sense to have given the primary unit two USB ports.

Anyone know why the Mate has two USB ports? What can they be used for?


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post #649 of 6294 Old 11-29-2009, 08:32 AM
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So Comcast got rid of analogs above basic channels in my area... does having an extra analog tuner do anything for me?
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post #650 of 6294 Old 11-29-2009, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

Anyone know why the Mate has two USB ports? What can they be used for?

One USB port is needed for a SDV TA, on systems that use SDV.

Edit: Misread question. Thought you were asking about the Moxi, not the Mate.
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post #651 of 6294 Old 11-29-2009, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

One USB port is needed for a SDV TA, on systems that use SDV.

But the Mate doesn't need the adapter. It only receives Moxi/PC networked programming and doesn't have a tuner.

If the primary Moxi has to use the adapter then why would you need one on the Mate?


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post #652 of 6294 Old 11-29-2009, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post17618100

The links to boblablaw in the above post don't work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

I searched for boblablaw. His stats show he has only 9 posts and the last one was in Jan 08, so I'm not sure where the links came from.

The quote from boblablaw is from the Tivo forum:

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/sho...47#post7632847


Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post


If not, I've got a Moxi, Mate, and dongle. I've never used the Mate but picked it up when on sale for $199 (the dongle was free).

What do I have to do to verify or disprove whether Moxi has 4 tuner capability?

Do you have the dual tuner Moxi or the newer three-tuner model?
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post #653 of 6294 Old 11-29-2009, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

As a correction to my comparison table...

Now I can put 2 and 2 together! MUCH thanks for maintaining that chart... I finds it VERY well done because it shows a LOT of stuff that the typical comparison chart never does.

ANYONE contemplating ANYTHING other than cable co DVR must spend some time with this chart!

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post #654 of 6294 Old 11-29-2009, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

...The easiest way to find out is to plug your dongle in and see what you get. Is there a reason you don't want to do this?

I'm using the dongle now as a 3rd tuner. Since all the dongle channels are (TBA) with no EPG data, its output can be watched live and buffered almost normally (the progress bar doesn't indicate where in the buffer it is) but not recorded.

What do I have to do with the Mate?
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post #655 of 6294 Old 11-29-2009, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by teeitup View Post

The quote from boblablaw is from the Tivo forum:

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/sho...47#post7632847

Thanks!

Quote:
Do you have the dual tuner Moxi or the newer three-tuner model?

I have the dual tuner original Moxi, Mate, and dongle.
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post #656 of 6294 Old 11-29-2009, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

I'm using the dongle now as a 3rd tuner. Since all the dongle channels are (TBA) with no EPG data, its output can be watched live and buffered almost normally (the progress bar doesn't indicate where in the buffer it is) but not recorded.

What do I have to do with the Mate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

Thanks!

I have the dual tuner original Moxi, Mate, and dongle.

Ok, so you are getting 3 channels between the 2-tuner Moxi and the dongle. All the Mate does is give you the ability to watch your recordings on another TV in a bedroom or something as long as you have it connected to your network. Early next year, they will be adding "live" capability to the Mate, so you will then be able to watch live TV in addition to the recordings.

Cheers, Dave
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post #657 of 6294 Old 11-29-2009, 09:25 AM
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http://moxi.com/us/home.html

Have I been misunderstanding the entire concept?

What's the difference between the original 2 tuner Moxi and the 3 tuner Moxi with the Mate? Is the Moxi box itself totally different?

How many programs can the 3 tuner Moxi record without connecting the Mate?
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post #658 of 6294 Old 11-29-2009, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

How many programs can the 3 tuner Moxi record without connecting the Mate?

3 - unless you use a Cisco tuning adapter, which limits the box to two. The three-tuner Moxi has three built-in tuners without the Hauppauge 1950.

The Mate only streams content from the main Moxi box. It has no tuner or drive so the Mate has no effect on how much you can record.


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post #659 of 6294 Old 11-29-2009, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

http://moxi.com/us/home.html

Have I been misunderstanding the entire concept?

What's the difference between the original 2 tuner Moxi and the 3 tuner Moxi with the Mate? Is the Moxi box itself totally different?

How many programs can the 3 tuner Moxi record without connecting the Mate?

The only difference between the 2-tuner and the 3-tuner is 1 tuner (well, maybe some added memory, etc., in the 3-tuner). Otherwise, they work the same way; record 2 (or 3) programs while watching a recording, stream Netflix, etc. Right now they do not appear to sell the 3-tuner model without the Mate.

Like I said, all the Mate does is let you view things on a TV in another room. For example, I could be watching something in the family room and my daughter could be watching something else in her bedroom. The Mate has to be hard-wired to the internet, so you need one of the network extenders (Powerline, MoCA, dedicated cabling, etc.) for it to be of any use.

If you thought it turned your 2-tuner Moxi into a 3-tuner Moxi, then you definitely misunderstood.

As you already know, the dongle adds an analog tuner to the mix.

Cheers, Dave
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post #660 of 6294 Old 11-29-2009, 06:23 PM
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I definitely misunderstood. I did think the extra tuner depended on the Mate. I currently have a Mate connected via a Netgear Wireless-N access device but have never used it. For $799 the 3 tuner Moxi with Mate is a deal!
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