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post #6901 of 6918 Unread 08-22-2016, 04:30 PM
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That doesnt sound right. Best to install to ensure it's working.
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post #6902 of 6918 Unread 08-22-2016, 06:08 PM
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It doesn't sound right to me at all, either: the cloning time was 3 hours 20 minutes for a 2 TB drive. It finished the cloning with no error messages (I don't know if G4L gives error messages if there's a problem). The progress seemed very steady: when I was noting speed, it seemed to range from about 160-182 (or so) MB/sec.

I can't imagine I did any different than everyone else has done -- I just followed the instructions I printed out from Mark's (IIRC) "Replacing a Moxi HDD" instructions. I did download G4L from SourceForge rather than from the freecode.com/projects/g4l link in Mark's instructions, so maybe it's a newer "version" of Linux or G4L (v 0.51 released 2016-05-08) that's faster? The only other thing I did was disconnect all my internal hard drives (I have six in my PC), and I followed VisionOn's suggestion to make sure I was using my motherboards two fastest (6Gb/s) ports rather than the any of the four slower (3Gb/s) ports.

I'm pretty darn certain I picked RAW Mode, then Click 'n' Clone, and I must have checked to make sure I had the correct source & target drives at least 10 times. Then "Click 'n' Clone Clone the drive now!" It put up a verification screen, and I again checked to make sure I'd selected appropriately before hitting enter to select "Yes."

But the proof will be in the pudding, which I can't try until Wednesday or maybe Thursday. My dh gives me flack about being the Queen of Cables, yet I haven't been able to locate any of my SATA-to-eSATA cables. No one local had them, so I had to order and they won't arrive until Wednesday.

My hunch is that I managed to do something wrong even though I was careful to follow the instructions. I'll report back when I've hooked it back up to the Moxi.

Thanks so much for all the help!

Saundra
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post #6903 of 6918 Unread 08-22-2016, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sslund View Post
It doesn't sound right to me at all, either: the cloning time was 3 hours 20 minutes for a 2 TB drive. It finished the cloning with no error messages (I don't know if G4L gives error messages if there's a problem). The progress seemed very steady: when I was noting speed, it seemed to range from about 160-182 (or so) MB/sec.

I can't imagine I did any different than everyone else has done -- I just followed the instructions I printed out from Mark's (IIRC) "Replacing a Moxi HDD" instructions. I did download G4L from SourceForge rather than from the freecode.com/projects/g4l link in Mark's instructions, so maybe it's a newer "version" of Linux or G4L (v 0.51 released 2016-05-08) that's faster? The only other thing I did was disconnect all my internal hard drives (I have six in my PC), and I followed VisionOn's suggestion to make sure I was using my motherboards two fastest (6Gb/s) ports rather than the any of the four slower (3Gb/s) ports.

I'm pretty darn certain I picked RAW Mode, then Click 'n' Clone, and I must have checked to make sure I had the correct source & target drives at least 10 times. Then "Click 'n' Clone Clone the drive now!" It put up a verification screen, and I again checked to make sure I'd selected appropriately before hitting enter to select "Yes."

But the proof will be in the pudding, which I can't try until Wednesday or maybe Thursday. My dh gives me flack about being the Queen of Cables, yet I haven't been able to locate any of my SATA-to-eSATA cables. No one local had them, so I had to order and they won't arrive until Wednesday.

My hunch is that I managed to do something wrong even though I was careful to follow the instructions. I'll report back when I've hooked it back up to the Moxi.

Thanks so much for all the help!

Saundra
it sounds like you did everything right and it was successful. your speeds are faster than what I've seen so it makes sense that your clone didn't take as long. good job!
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post #6904 of 6918 Unread 08-23-2016, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by sslund View Post
It doesn't sound right to me at all, either: the cloning time was 3 hours 20 minutes for a 2 TB drive. It finished the cloning with no error messages (I don't know if G4L gives error messages if there's a problem). The progress seemed very steady: when I was noting speed, it seemed to range from about 160-182 (or so) MB/sec.

I can't imagine I did any different than everyone else has done -- I just followed the instructions I printed out from Mark's (IIRC) "Replacing a Moxi HDD" instructions. I did download G4L from SourceForge rather than from the freecode.com/projects/g4l link in Mark's instructions, so maybe it's a newer "version" of Linux or G4L (v 0.51 released 2016-05-08) that's faster? The only other thing I did was disconnect all my internal hard drives (I have six in my PC), and I followed VisionOn's suggestion to make sure I was using my motherboards two fastest (6Gb/s) ports rather than the any of the four slower (3Gb/s) ports.

I'm pretty darn certain I picked RAW Mode, then Click 'n' Clone, and I must have checked to make sure I had the correct source & target drives at least 10 times. Then "Click 'n' Clone Clone the drive now!" It put up a verification screen, and I again checked to make sure I'd selected appropriately before hitting enter to select "Yes."

But the proof will be in the pudding, which I can't try until Wednesday or maybe Thursday. My dh gives me flack about being the Queen of Cables, yet I haven't been able to locate any of my SATA-to-eSATA cables. No one local had them, so I had to order and they won't arrive until Wednesday.

My hunch is that I managed to do something wrong even though I was careful to follow the instructions. I'll report back when I've hooked it back up to the Moxi.

Thanks so much for all the help!

Saundra

Did you run G4L on a windows PC or some other OS?

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #6905 of 6918 Unread 08-23-2016, 09:26 AM
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Did you run G4L on a windows PC or some other OS?
It's a Windows PC, but would Linux or G4L know that with no internal hard drives other than the two Moxi drives connected?

As an aside, because I was paranoid about choosing the correct source and target drives, I also disconnected my external drives before booting into Linux &G4L. As it turns out, I didn't need to be so paranoid because G4L made it pretty easy to choose: the two drives were identified by make, model, & serial numbers (it may have more info about each drive, too, but those are the things I noted).
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post #6906 of 6918 Unread 08-23-2016, 11:01 AM
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I believe the Linux kernel has the ability to detect internal or external drives based on what the systems BIOS says, much like how the old MS-DOS did (I miss DOS). Otherwise booting up Linux would be impossible...

Just to clarify... did you install and run G4L in windows 7/8/10 or you made a separate Linux external boot disk somehow?

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #6907 of 6918 Unread 08-23-2016, 11:42 AM
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Sorry -- I misunderstood your question, which isn't unusual for me since I don't understand the technical details!


I burned the G4L iso file to CD, booted from the CD, picked the most recent (Linux?) kernel from the menu, and then ran G4L. Does that clarify? I don't think I could have started Windows even had I wanted to (without a Windows install DVD/CD in one of the optical drives) because the Windows OS "lives" on one of the internal drives, doesn't it. Those were all completely disconnected before I started G4L.
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post #6908 of 6918 Unread 08-23-2016, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by sslund View Post
Sorry -- I misunderstood your question, which isn't unusual for me since I don't understand the technical details!


I burned the G4L iso file to CD, booted from the CD, picked the most recent (Linux?) kernel from the menu, and then ran G4L. Does that clarify? I don't think I could have started Windows even had I wanted to (without a Windows install DVD/CD in one of the optical drives) because the Windows OS "lives" on one of the internal drives, doesn't it. Those were all completely disconnected before I started G4L.
Thanks, Saundra ...that explains it well I presume the G4L download is a bootable iso file already once burned on the CD?

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #6909 of 6918 Unread 08-23-2016, 01:13 PM
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Thanks, Saundra ...that explains it well I presume the G4L download is a bootable iso file already once burned on the CD?

I think it must be: all I did was download the iso and burn it to the CD. Once remembered to put the CD back in the optical drive before shutting the computer down and did all my prep work after shutting the computer off, it booted from the CD with no problems when I powered it up again. I had an aborted attempt several days ago because I didn't understand I had to pick a Linux kernel to use from the menu before getting to anything that looked like the instructions here, but fortunately folks kindly explained. I'm good at following directions, but not so good at figuring out things when reality deviates from the instructions :-)
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post #6910 of 6918 Unread 08-23-2016, 04:33 PM
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Thanks again!

How to phase match subwoofers to the mains speakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19542630
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post #6911 of 6918 Unread 08-23-2016, 08:03 PM
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can someone upload the moxi mate user guide pdf?
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post #6912 of 6918 Unread 08-23-2016, 08:20 PM
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can someone upload the moxi mate user guide pdf?
http://web.archive.org/web/201205221...sers_guide.pdf
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post #6913 of 6918 Unread 08-23-2016, 08:22 PM
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thx!
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post #6914 of 6918 Unread Yesterday, 06:22 PM
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Sorry for the delay in updating -- I wasn't able to find the time to test the clone until today. Even though the cloning process only took 3 hours, 20 minutes for a 2 TB drive, the clone is working relatively OK (details follow). There are some oddities I don't understand, and I initially thought there was a problem with the clone, but it's working.

I'm currently running things with the internal drive outside the Moxi case so I can more easily swap between the clone and the new 4FP hard drive while I get the stuff from the old drive watched. Through the weekend, I'm using a borrowed eSATA docking station (I used a SATA-to-eSATA cable inside). After the weekend, the drives will go in external enclosures & I'll have to swap the cable between them . . . as well as the power cords since my electrical outlet is full. <sigh>

The first thing I did after removing current internal drive, switching to the SATA-to-eSATA cable, and then connecting the docking station was to test that known good drive in the docking station. When I plugged the Moxi back in, started, got a bit in the boot process, restarted itself, and loaded completely, and was completely functional. The only thing I noticed was a significant delay between the time I chose something recorded to play and when playback started. Once playback started, function was completely normal, and the delay was gone for that recording and the other things I tested. I don't know how this stuff works, but it seemed like once the pump was primed (so to speak), function was completely normal.

Then, I unplugged the Moxi, waited 30 seconds or so, powered down the docking station, swapped that drive with the clone, powered the docking station back up, and plugged the Moxi in. The same thing happened again: the Moxi started loading, rebooted itself, and then loaded fully.

As far as I could tell, all the recorded content was there, and as expected, I had the "no signal detected" message and no channels since I'd paired the CC with the new drive. However, when I tried to play a recorded show, nothing happened even after waiting a long time. It seemed to me that the "no signal detected" error was keeping the Moxi from doing much of anything. I tried to get past that by changing channels to engage the analog dongle, but it's honestly been so long since I've used it, I don't know if it still works (or if we still even have analog channels). In any case, I was unsuccessful at that.

I was, however, able to successfully delete some things that had been re-recorded & watched on the new drive. But I still couldn't get anything recorded to play.

I rebooted the Moxi again with the same results. At that point, I was frustrated, confused, and hungry, so I decided to let things alone while I made lunch and thought about what to try next.

While I was in the kitchen making my lunch, I heard what sounded like something on TV. When I made it back into the living room with food, live TV was indeed playing! Somehow, the CC had re-paired itself to the cloned drive, and I have access to all my channels, including the premium channels. Does anyone know how that happened? I've not yet switched back to the new drive, so I hope the CC hasn't unpaired itself from the good drive. <sigh>

I had assumed that when I paired the CC with the new drive that would inactivate the pairing with the old drive and therefore with the clone, but that doesn't seem to be the case. At least, it doesn't seem to be the case in my situation.

Once that happened, all of the recorded stuff was playing fine, and I was able to make some progress at getting some Olympics watched.

Then came a wrinkle: the clone has the recording schedule, and something was scheduled to start recording, I think. When that happened, I first got a "you don't subscribe to this channel" error that then morphed into a "no signal detected" error. When that happened, the Moxi became unresponsive for quite a bit of time -- maybe 10 minutes -- and watching recorded content wasn't working, either.

However, after those many minutes, everything became responsive again, and the scheduled recording recorded fine in spite of those two "you don't subscribe to this channel" and "no signal detected" errors.

So, that's the state of things now.

I'm anxious to get through the stuff recorded on the clone, but it's going to take me longer than I hoped because as VisionOn pointed out, swapping drives isn't particularly convenient. Too, with the way I have things setup now, there is occasional slight sluggishness with playback, at least on the clone (i.e., the first Skip press works quickly, but there's periodically a slight delay with the second press).

Saundra
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post #6915 of 6918 Unread Yesterday, 06:56 PM
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you must consider that you're using the cloned hdd inside a dock with a sata to esata cable. since you have new recordings that started, maybe your clone should be the new primary hdd. you'll still need to pair it back in the end or else you'll see a lot more "you do not subscribe to this channel" messages.
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post #6916 of 6918 Unread Today, 12:02 AM
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I had assumed that when I paired the CC with the new drive that would inactivate the pairing with the old drive and therefore with the clone, but that doesn't seem to be the case. At least, it doesn't seem to be the case in my situation.
Yes, you would expect the CC to work with a cloned drive because it already has the necessary authentications, but if you did a fresh install on another drive and then called TWC to have them pair it then it's odd that the system would still be workable with the old drive. Usually the only way you can see channels when the CC has been paired with something else is if those channels are unencrypted anyway.

But if it's working with both then don't worry about it. You've had some weird and unusual results so far so just consider it good luck. But don't start recordings when the clone is loaded otherwise you'll never be able to clear it of content. Remove all the scheduled recordings and only use the new drive for recordings. It will mean more frequent drive swapsies but it's the only way to get off the two drive roller coaster.

Delayed response times should be expected. Unlike when the drive is plugged directly into the Moxi mainboard now you have added an external dock inbetween the drives and the Moxi so there are extra hardware processes involved. How fast and efficient the SATA controller is in the dock will affect the communication between everything. The Moxi has to communicate with the dock and then the dock has to communicate with the drives and vice versa. Cheap SATA docks may use cheap and slow controllers. They are not really designed to be sending data back and forth 24/7. It's a crapshoot. No real way to tell how fast one is over the other unless you can find some indepth hardware reviews.
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post #6917 of 6918 Unread Today, 10:34 AM
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Thanks, VisionOn! I'm extraordinarily pleased that I'm getting weird & unusual results in a good way for a change. And amen about the caveat for getting rid of all the scheduled recordings still active on the clone! I really didn't expect the CC to work with the cloned drive since I had TWC pair it with the new one so hadn't thought of that, but I definitely want to get off the two drive roller coaster ASAP. I think/hope I'll be able to make it through much of the Olympics stuff on the clone quasi-quickly (I watch a lot of the events, but because of the way things are covered, I recorded huge blocks where there might be only 30 minutes out of three hours I'm interested in), and then there's maybe 10-15 hours of other recordings. Which doesn't really sound like a lot, but realistically, it's going to take me longer than I planned to get through the clone.

One question I have I'm hoping someone can help with. The borrowed docking station doesn't have a fan -- is that likely to cause an issue for drive heat? I periodically checked the temp listed (Diagnostics, Hardware Status) and it seems to be consistently around 98.4 degrees, which is two degrees cooler than Moxi 2, but I don't know if that's accurate for Moxi 1 since the "internal" drive is now external? FWIW, the external drive enclosures I'll be using when I return the borrowed docking station do have fans, but I'm also toying with the idea of getting a docking station myself to use with Moxi 1 short-term, so I'm wondering if paying for a docking station with a fan (assuming they make them with fans) is something I should consider?

I really can't complain about the periodic sluggishness, although perhaps that will change when I return the borrowed docking station (I think it's an Anker -- I didn't pay much attention before getting it set up) and use the external enclosures. You had forewarned me so I was prepared, and once I determined that the clone was good and that swapping the drives would actually work with the borrowed docking station, it was all good. For the most part, it seems virtually as snappy as normal. Mostly, sequential hits of the "skip" button on the remote works as intended, but occasionally there's a 7 second lag after the second press. Small price to pay for not losing those several days of Olympics coverage.

As an added bonus, I'm able to get the Closed Captioning settings off the clone for the new drive :-) I thought I'd made notes of everything I needed to do for the new drive, but I'd forgotten all about the ClosedCaptioning tweaks it took me forever to get just right so I don't deafen the neighborhood <g> when I'm on the treadmill and also not completely lose text that might be a part of the video. But, I'd forgotten that, as well as all the (hundreds, it seems) channels I don't want in the Grid Guide. It was a very simple matter to grab that stuff off the clone :-)
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post #6918 of 6918 Unread Today, 10:36 AM
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Good idea, dz2K but I can't make the clone the primary hard drive -- besides the Olympics, there's only about 15 hours or so of other things we need to get watched on the clone, and the new drive has more stuff recorded on it than that. And, while swapping the drives isn't particularly convenient, it's an annoyance I'm willing to put up with for the next week or two or three until I can get the clone cleared.

I got some stuff watched yesterday afternoon & evening with no further issues, and switching back to the new hard drive worked fine with no CC problems. I am pleasantly surprised to learn that that a CC can be paired to two different Moxi hard drives!

I'm also pleasantly surprised about the short cloning time! Now that I know how simple the process is (thanks to folks here) and that it goes relatively quickly with my setup, I won't drag my feet in the future when I start seeing flaky behavior.

When I get the clone drive cleared, I'm going to use it to clone the Moxi's external hard drive. Something wasn't working correctly to begin with (that's why I cloned when I did instead of waiting until the Olympics were over), and since I've ruled out the internal drive and the external drive enclosure, I think the external hard drive is likely the culprit. That particular drive has been heavily used for going on 5(!) years, so I've gotten my money's worth out of it :-)
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