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HDTV Recorders > Moxi HD DVR
acaoacao's Avatar acaoacao 08:43 AM 12-09-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by VisionOn View Post

I haven't seen it but I guess it's intentional to stop secondary users deleting shows that other members of the household haven't watched.

I don't see why they couldn't add the feature to a future update with some kind of deletion lock for the Mates or an access code necessary when on secondary units but it might just be too much hassle to implement. If you can watch TV then you must be able to schedule recordings in the upcoming Mate update, so maybe deletion is part of that?

Why can't you delete them on the main box?


I have a lot of shows that I record. I like to clear space whenever I can so I do not overwrite the other the ones. If I cannot delete them on the Moxi Mate.. I have to turn on the Main TV and search for the ones to delete.

ss9001's Avatar ss9001 11:17 AM 12-10-2009
What's the story on the Moxi division being sold off? Any word on this or how it might impact users?

I've been considering Moxi as an alternative to Comcast's 160GB Moto DVR. With the Motorola 3412/3416 boxes, I dislike the remote which locks up every few days, hate the limited storage capacity and inability to offload or add new drives and I hate paying the 15/mo rental fee

So, I thought moxi would be my #1 choice until I read about it being sold.

Has the company issued any statements or sent letters out as to the stability of maintaining services?

ss9001
davezatz's Avatar davezatz 11:21 AM 12-10-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

What's the story on the Moxi division being sold off? Any word on this or how it might impact users? Has the company issued any statements or sent letters out as to the stability of maintaining services

I think they're in a far better place and there is less to fear about bankruptcy or termination of services. Of course, you never know. Arris has stated that they'll continue to fully support the retail product line and have in fact brought out a product update since being acquired and some firmware updates are on the way.
bfdtv's Avatar bfdtv 12:27 PM 12-10-2009
Here are some tips from an experienced Moxi user:

Quote:


MOXI
The MOXI key acts as a homing button. Depending on where you are in the menu, it will:

If in menu, in this order:
1. go to top menu (such as if in 2nd level Diagnostics, it goes back up to Settings)
2. go to currently watched program in Channels menu
3. go to fullscreen video (Live/Recorded/etc, whatever's currently playing).

If in fullscreen:
It zooms back to the Moxi Menu.

ZOOM
The ZOOM key simply zooms back and forth between the Moxi Menu and fullscreen. Very useful.

PLAY
While on a live TV or recorded program menu item, just hit the PLAY key to immediately begin playing it. One click and you're watching that program.

RECORD
While on a TV program or its menu (live or future), pressing RECORD will bring up the action menu with "record once" in focus. Pressing a second time will begin recording. Two quick clicks and you're recording.

STOP
If recording and currently in full screen, pressing STOP will bring up the confirmation note to stop the recording. Pressing a second time will stop recording. Two quick clicks and the recording is stopped.

CLEAR
While on a Recorded program menu, pressing CLEAR will bring up the confirmation to delete. Pressing a second time will delete the program. Two quick clicks and the recording is deleted.

SKIP
The SKIP key can be configured through the Settings menu to skip ahead 30 seconds, 3 mins, 5 mins or 15 mins. I find 3 mins most useful since that's roughly the commercial break time.

The MOXI LOGO key
This is the key near the top of the remote, to the left of LIVE TV.
Pressing once will go to the Recorded TV menu.
Pressing twice quickly will open up the Grid Guide.

TICKER
Pressing the TICKER remote key will immediately launch Ticker.

BACK
If in a menu that has an orange "Back" button, you can also press the BACK remote key from anywhere inside the menu to do the same thing - take you back in the navigation history (like pressing Back in a web browser).

CHANNEL UP/DOWN
While in any menu, pressing CH UP/CH DN will scroll by page instead of by item.

Inside Media Link
When navigating inside a Media Link server, the LEFT arrow key will take you up one level, while the RIGHT arrow key will take you inside one level. Pressing OK or INFO will give you an option to add that folder to the User Favorites menu. Once you get to a playable item, pressing PLAY will begin playing it (like Live/Recorded TV).


fallingwater's Avatar fallingwater 01:57 PM 12-10-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by acaoacao View Post

So Comcast got rid of analogs above basic channels in my area... does having an extra analog tuner do anything for me?

Not much, especially for $129. I got the analog dongle free with the original Moxi and until recently used it, mapped to VOD Ch. 1, to enable standard-def recording from Comcast's DTA.

Now I'm using the DTA as a tuner for a DVD recorder. Unless a user maps analog channels to Moxi's EPG data Moxi can only buffer but not record from the dongle. But why bother when digital versions are available? Moxi can only map a given channel's data once!

---
Because Moxi apparently doesn't utilize PSIP designated virtual channel info it can't access Comcast's digital Extended Basic in my area without a CableCARD, making its unscrambled QAM channel mapping a much less useful feature.

Here in Bellingham Comcast made the Extended Basic digital cutover about 3 weeks ago. We don't have SDV. Now that things have apparently stabilized; here's how TiVo, Moxi, and the Sony hi-def DVR now operate when used without CableCARDS:

TiVo provides EPG data for Limited Basic analog Chs. 2 through 28 plus 75 and 78. All actual digital channels above Ch. 28 are scrambled and unavailable except for a handful, also viewable from a DTA, as a promoted freebie extra.

All formerly analog Extended Basic Chs. are now included in a totally new line-up of virtual Chs., viwable on HDTiVo with no EPG info. Hi-def simulcasts of OTA Chs. are available, using PSIP generated virtual OTA equivalent Ch. #'s with no EPG info.

Bottom line is that Comcast's Extended and Limited Basic Chs. remain watchable on HDTiVo, but only Limited Basic Chs. have EPG info.
---

Moxi automatically maps all Comcast Limited Basic Chs., including OTA hi-def simulcasts, to their Comcast channel numbers without viewer involvement. Hi-def Chs. use Comcast's numbering system instead of PSIP OTA equivalents. (IOW, Ch. 5 hi-def is Ch. 105, not 5.1)

Moxi is totally oblivious to the new virtual Extended Basic channel numbers! IOW, Comcast's Extended Basic Chs. (except for the handful of unscrambled DTA promo channels) are not viewable from Moxi.
---

Sony's hi-def DVR accesses the same Comcast line-up as TiVo. If a viewer invests the time and effort (almost) the entire Comcast Extended Basic Ch. line-up can be mapped to Sony's advanced (Ver. 8) TVGOS EPG.

A few minor mapping glitches, apparently related to subchannel groups, cause several channels not to be mappable at the same time as others but with apparently only 1 exception data is available for all channels. Sony's DVR is a single tuner recorder but aside from that significant limitation offers, at this time, in this area, the best and cheapest Comcast viewing experience with no CableCARD hassles or Additional Outlet Fees!
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...11#post7650911
bfdtv's Avatar bfdtv 02:18 PM 12-10-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

Because Moxi apparently doesn't utilize PSIP designated virtual channel info it can't access Comcast's digital Extended Basic in my area without a CableCARD, making its unscrambled QAM channel mapping a much less useful feature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

Moxi is totally oblivious to the new virtual Extended Basic channel numbers! IOW, Comcast's Extended Basic Chs. (except for the handful of unscrambled DTA promo channels) are not viewable from Moxi.

Can you explain further? I thought Moxi allowed manual channel mapping through their web site? Can't you map QAM 82-9 to, say, CSPAN?
fallingwater's Avatar fallingwater 03:07 PM 12-10-2009
Moxi does provide manual mapping of unscrambled QAM channels. But it can only map channels it can receive.

A Moxi channel scan only provides Comcast's Limited Basic and hi-def OTA simulcast channels, plus the half dozen or so unscrambled promo channels that Comcast offers from a DTA. Comcast's actual Extended Basic channels are scrambled (CSPAN is available unscrambled as part of Limited Basic) but now there is a new line-up of unscrambled virtual Extended Basic QAM channels which Moxi can't receive.

TiVo does receive these virtual channels but can't map them. Sony's hi-def DVR can map them to guide data.
bfdtv's Avatar bfdtv 03:14 PM 12-10-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

Moxi does provide manual mapping of unscrambled QAM channels. But it can only map channels it can receive.

A Moxi channel scan only provides Comcast's Limited Basic and hi-def OTA simulcast channels, plus the half dozen or so unscrambled promo channels that Comcast offers from a DTA. Comcast's actual Extended Basic channels are scrambled (CSPAN is available unscrambled as part of Limited Basic) but now there is a new line-up of unscrambled virtual Extended Basic QAM channels which Moxi can't receive.

Thanks, now I understand what you are saying. You can map any unencrypted (clearqam) channel Moxi can receive, but for whatever reason, it isn't able to receive/tune some unencrypted (clearqam) channels that the TiVo and Sony can.

Is Moxi unable to tune ClearQAM channels above a certain number? Does it stop scanning at say, 115? Or does Moxi simply limit the number of ClearQAM channels that can be displayed, independent of frequency?
fallingwater's Avatar fallingwater 03:18 PM 12-10-2009
Moxi apparently, like most cable co. STB's, doesn't recognize virtual (PSIP generated) channel numbers. The number of channels (quantity) isn't a factor.

BTW, the new Comcast virtual channel line-up has lower channel numbers than Comcast's actual QAM channels. The numbers have nothing to do with analog, but fall within the old analog Extended Basic numbers between Chs. 30 and 70. Of course with subchannels the total number of programs is much higher than the number of channels.
bfdtv's Avatar bfdtv 03:31 PM 12-10-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

Moxi apparently, like most cable co. STB's, doesn't recognize virtual (PSIP generated) channel numbers. The number of channels (quantity) isn't a factor.

I don't understand why that would matter.

There's no such thing as a virtual channel number without a corresponding QAM frequency assignment. It shouldn't matter whether the Moxi can see 114-4 on the virtual (PSIP remapped) channel 16-1. It should still be able to tune that channel on 114-4 even it can't see or tune 16-1.

I would like to understand why Moxi can't do that.
fallingwater's Avatar fallingwater 03:50 PM 12-10-2009
I don't know why! What I do know is that Comcast's actual Extended Basic channels are scrambled while their virtual equivalents aren't.
DoubleDAZ's Avatar DoubleDAZ 04:52 PM 12-10-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

I don't know why! What I do know is that Comcast's actual Extended Basic channels are scrambled while their virtual equivalents aren't.

I don't know about Comcast, but Cox simulcasts it's analog lineup, what's left of it. These analog channels are available via clear QAM, but the simulcast channels are not. The simulcast channels are encrypted and need an STB/CC to be viewed at least AFAIK.
malvado's Avatar malvado 09:01 PM 12-10-2009
bfdtv or other moxi owners:

In the comparison chart, the Moxi doesn't seem to have the option checked for "All SD and HD outputs active simultaneously".

Does this mean that when hdmi is in use, the composite outputs are dead?

To hold us over until the live streaming update for the mates, I was hoping to be able to use an rf modulator and a second run of coax to my tv w/ the mate. i have an ir/rf transmitter to be able to control the host to at least set recordings for virtual live tv on the mate.

anyone care to elaborate?
bfdtv's Avatar bfdtv 10:46 PM 12-10-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by malvado View Post

In the comparison chart, the Moxi doesn't seem to have the option checked for "All SD and HD outputs active simultaneously".

Does this mean that when hdmi is in use, the composite outputs are dead?

With one Moxi DVR (and no extender), there is no way to simultaneously output HD to one TV and SD to a different TV/VCR/DVDR. That's the capability referred to in the table.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malvado View Post

anyone care to elaborate?

The composite and s-video connections on the Moxi do not simultaneously output video when you are in fixed 720p or fixed 1080i output mode. The SD connections do simultaneously output video if you (a) set the Moxi to 480i fixed output mode, which downconverts all channels to 480i, or (b) set the Moxi to native output and tune to a 480i channel.

If you have a MoxiMate extender, you can certainly set that to output SD. You can set the Moxi to output all channels in HD while the MoxiMate extender outputs all channels in SD. LiveTV capability is coming to the extender in January.
slowbiscuit 05:53 AM 12-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

I don't know why! What I do know is that Comcast's actual Extended Basic channels are scrambled while their virtual equivalents aren't.

Give me an actual channel example, because I have no idea what you're talking about. If they're all digital now after the migration, then they should either be unencrypted (clear) QAM on the actual channel, or not, regardless of virtual or actual numbers.

For example, here Discovery HD is on cable channel 844. I have no idea what the QAM channel is, but let's say it's 125-1. That channel is encrypted no matter what number you want to represent it as, because 125-1 is encrypted.

ABC HD is on cable channel 803, and the actual channel is something like 98-3 which gets a PSIP assignment from Comcast (in clear QAM) to 2-1. So when my TV tunes 2-1, it's unencrypted. Doesn't matter whether they assigned 2-1 as the virtual or left it with no virtual on actual channel 98-3, it's still unencrypted.

Our expanded basic SD channels are in the clear on QAM now, and all have QAM channel assignments in the 81 to 96 range (e.g. ESPN is something like 87-5). Even if they provide a PSIP mapping to channel 46 after the migration (the existing analog channel number), it's still in the clear on 87-5. My Myth box tunes actual QAM channels and doesn't care about PSIP, so it would tune 87-5.
teeitup's Avatar teeitup 09:45 AM 12-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

Moxi does provide manual mapping of unscrambled QAM channels. But it can only map channels it can receive.

A Moxi channel scan only provides Comcast's Limited Basic and hi-def OTA simulcast channels, plus the half dozen or so unscrambled promo channels that Comcast offers from a DTA. Comcast's actual Extended Basic channels are scrambled (CSPAN is available unscrambled as part of Limited Basic) but now there is a new line-up of unscrambled virtual Extended Basic QAM channels which Moxi can't receive.

Seems very odd your Moxi is having difficulty tuning other unscrambled QAM channels your Sony HD DVR receives (virtual or not). I have both the Moxi and Sony and both receive the same 130+ clearqam channels, although I much prefer the Moxi's ability to map to the cable assigned channel numbers so I don't have to mess with the subchannel numbers.

Have you tried resetting and starting over with a new channel scan? Probably worth a call to Moxi tech support.
fallingwater's Avatar fallingwater 09:58 AM 12-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by malvado View Post

bfdtv or other moxi owners:

In the comparison chart, the Moxi doesn't seem to have the option checked for "All SD and HD outputs active simultaneously".

Does this mean that when hdmi is in use, the composite outputs are dead?

To hold us over until the live streaming update for the mates, I was hoping to be able to use an rf modulator and a second run of coax to my tv w/ the mate. i have an ir/rf transmitter to be able to control the host to at least set recordings for virtual live tv on the mate.

anyone care to elaborate?

Moxi's provides no signals from S-Video or composite outputs when receiving/recording a hi-def source unless its output is selected as 480i.

Moxi's output resolution must be manually selected (except that 'native' passes through the source resolution). The selected resolution must be confirmed as viewable. If it isn't, the output reverts to the previous setting after 30 secs.
DoubleDAZ's Avatar DoubleDAZ 09:59 AM 12-11-2009
If I get a 3-tuner Moxi with 2 Mates, can I watch 2 different recordings on the Mates while watching something else on the Moxi?

And when live cability comes to the Mates, will I be able to watch 2 different live shows on the Mates while watching something else on the Moxi?
acaoacao's Avatar acaoacao 10:10 AM 12-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

If I get a 3-tuner Moxi with 2 Mates, can I watch 2 different recordings on the Mates while watching something else on the Moxi?

And when live cability comes to the Mates, will I be able to watch 2 different live shows on the Mates while watching something else on the Moxi?



Yes I think that is correct. You should be able to do it.

However, I am wondering if you can watch 3 recorded shows on a Moxi and the two Moxi Mates and record three live shows... That is a lot for one box to do....
DoubleDAZ's Avatar DoubleDAZ 11:58 AM 12-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by acaoacao View Post

However, I am wondering if you can watch 3 recorded shows on a Moxi and the two Moxi Mates and record three live shows... That is a lot for one box to do....

I've since found out that the box will do just that, but it's a lot of strain on the HDD. I wouldn't expect to have it working that hard, but I would expect there would be times when I'd record 3 while watching 2 (1 in the family room and another in 1 of the bedrooms). The Mate in our bedroom would generally only be used when the Moxi in the family room wasn't.
fallingwater's Avatar fallingwater 12:25 PM 12-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

Give me an actual channel example, because I have no idea what you're talking about. If they're all digital now after the migration, then they should either be unencrypted (clear) QAM on the actual channel, or not, regardless of virtual or actual numbers.

For example, here Discovery HD is on cable channel 844. I have no idea what the QAM channel is, but let's say it's 125-1. That channel is encrypted no matter what number you want to represent it as, because 125-1 is encrypted....

Thanks for your skeptical post! I immediately switched the monitor from the PC to the S3 TiVo in this room, and checked the EPG channel list including all the new virtual channels in the 30 to 70 range.

As of now you're right! I have no explanation for what was true yesterday when all the virtual equivalents of the scrambled Extended Basic actual QAM channels were in the clear on S3 TiVo and the Sony DVR. I deleted all channels and rescanned the S3.

(To complicate matters my monitor decided this morning to pull a new trick and produced no audio from its HDMI inputs, a more immediate concern than clear QAM availability. After a short panic a hard reboot solved the HDMI audio problem!)

Again I don't know why things work or don't work. Later, when I've got time to check the Sony DVR's remap and verify that yesterday was a fluke, I'll confirm and edit or delete several posts.

It now appears that TiVo doesn't have an advantage over Moxi in being able to receive more unscrambled channels without a CableCARD. Indeed Moxi retains an advantage by providing EPG data for the unscrambled hi-def simulcasts of Limited Basic OTA channels although channel mapping is no longer as significant an advantage now that most QAM channels are scrambled.
bfdtv's Avatar bfdtv 12:36 PM 12-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

If I get a 3-tuner Moxi with 2 Mates, can I watch 2 different recordings on the Mates while watching something else on the Moxi?

Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

And when live cability comes to the Mates, will I be able to watch 2 different live shows on the Mates while watching something else on the Moxi?

Yes.
fallingwater's Avatar fallingwater 12:37 PM 12-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by teeitup View Post

Seems very odd your Moxi is having difficulty tuning other unscrambled QAM channels your Sony HD DVR receives (virtual or not). I have both the Moxi and Sony and both receive the same 130+ clearqam channels, although I much prefer the Moxi's ability to map to the cable assigned channel numbers so I don't have to mess with the subchannel numbers.

Have you tried resetting and starting over with a new channel scan? Probably worth a call to Moxi tech support.

I did rescan Moxi yesterday. It receives all the unscrambled QAM channels that a DTA receives plus the hi-def subchannels of OTA Extended Basic channels. It automatically assigns Comcast's numbering system for such OTA simulcasts.

But the Extended Basic channels that a DTA receives are now scrambled.
Derrick2020's Avatar Derrick2020 12:39 PM 12-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

If I get a 3-tuner Moxi with 2 Mates, can I watch 2 different recordings on the Mates while watching something else on the Moxi?

And when live cability comes to the Mates, will I be able to watch 2 different live shows on the Mates while watching something else on the Moxi?

Watching a recording doesn't take up a tuner. You could be recording 2 or 3 different shows (Cable card/cable co permitting) and watching a different recorded show on the moxi and each mate.

When the live tv function is enabled on the mate(s) you can watch a live show on each box.
bfdtv's Avatar bfdtv 12:39 PM 12-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

I did rescan Moxi yesterday. It receives all the unscrambled QAM channels; everything that a DTA receives plus the hi-def subchannels of OTA Extended Basic channels. It automatically assigns Comcast's numbering system for such OTA simulcasts.

Unfortunately most Extended Basic channels are scrambled here now.

Just to be clear, when the Moxi sees 4-1 on ClearQAM, it remaps that channel to say, 204...without a CableCard?
fallingwater's Avatar fallingwater 12:45 PM 12-11-2009
Yes. Without a CableCARD Moxi designates Ch. 4.1 as Ch. 104.
Riverside_Guy's Avatar Riverside_Guy 09:51 AM 12-12-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

If I get a 3-tuner Moxi with 2 Mates, can I watch 2 different recordings on the Mates while watching something else on the Moxi?

And when live cability comes to the Mates, will I be able to watch 2 different live shows on the Mates while watching something else on the Moxi?

On an engineering level, these things seem to be able to deal with 3 streams at a time (2 recording one playing back). So the first question... can you record 3 at a time and play back one (on the 3 tuner model)? If Yes, that means it can handle 4 streams.

Your question implies dealing with 3 streams... theoretically the answer SHOULD be yes.
DoubleDAZ's Avatar DoubleDAZ 10:20 AM 12-12-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

I've since found out that the box will do just that, but it's a lot of strain on the HDD. I wouldn't expect to have it working that hard, but I would expect there would be times when I'd record 3 while watching 2 (1 in the family room and another in 1 of the bedrooms). The Mate in our bedroom would generally only be used when the Moxi in the family room wasn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

On an engineering level, these things seem to be able to deal with 3 streams at a time (2 recording one playing back). So the first question... can you record 3 at a time and play back one (on the 3 tuner model)? If Yes, that means it can handle 4 streams.

Your question implies dealing with 3 streams... theoretically the answer SHOULD be yes.

R_G, I think you missed the earlier answer. With a 3-tuner Moxi and 2 Mates, you can indeed record 3 programs while watching 3 previous recordings. As I mentioned in the first quote, it may be a strain on the HDD. In all probability, it will probably reduce it's life if worked that hard consistently, but it can be done. This can even be done wireless using N bridges to an N network. I had been considering MoCA and Powerline, but bridges accomplish the same thing and I wouldn't have to worry about phasing or cabling.
wajo's Avatar wajo 11:00 AM 12-12-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

On an engineering level, these things seem to be able to deal with 3 streams at a time (2 recording one playing back). So the first question... can you record 3 at a time and play back one (on the 3 tuner model)? If Yes, that means it can handle 4 streams.

Your question implies dealing with 3 streams... theoretically the answer SHOULD be yes.

For a point of reference, the Seagate HDD in the SDTV HDD recorder Philips 3575/3576, is designed to handle 10 simultaneous SD or HD streams, with appropriate cache. I'm sure the Moxi HDD can do the same or better?
DoubleDAZ's Avatar DoubleDAZ 11:54 AM 12-12-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

For a point of reference, the Seagate HDD in the SDTV HDD recorder Philips 3575/3576, is designed to handle 10 simultaneous SD or HD streams, with appropriate cache. I'm sure the Moxi HDD can do the same or better?

I guess that begs the question, do external expansion HDDs hold up to similar performance?
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