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post #1351 of 6307 Old 02-10-2010, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by John Clark View Post

I was strongly considering going to a Moxi to replace my Comcast HD DVR and came here to see how things were in the current Moxi world. I had no idea they had been bought. This makes me more than a bit concerned that making the investment in one now might be a little too risky.

On a positive note, Arris made a price drop and it's never been more popular by the looks of it. Coupled with the continued development and latest update I think Moxi is probably in a better position than it was last year.


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post #1352 of 6307 Old 02-11-2010, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by scientest View Post

I'm not doing anything with a more than 2 year payback. Technology simply changes too fast to make it worth it.

Enjoy your cable DVRs! You're not going to find anything that meets your requirements, not now and not for the forseeable future. Even if you wanted to build an HTPC with the upcoming Ceton Cablecard tuner it will run you at least $800, which doesn't make your payback criteria.

You need to rethink your expectations or significantly lower them (i.e., stick with what you have) because the available Tivo, Moxi, and HTPC cablecard solutions will not qualify. Price and payback are not the prime objectives for most people getting rid of crappy cableCo DVRs. If you're happy with their junk because of price, stick with it.
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post #1353 of 6307 Old 02-11-2010, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by kevinff View Post

I just posted this in the Phoenix, AZ thread, so forgive me if it is a repeat of violation on posting the same response in different threads:


.... I have Cox cable with 3 HD DVRs and another regular non-HD cable box. What is stopping me from paying the $70 a month rental fees and not getting the Moxi Hd/DVR tuner with a few Moxi mates?

I figure if I keep it for a year, it would pay for itself.

I quickly read up on the Moxi 3 Tuner HD DVR + 2 Moxi Mates Bundle package ($999) and it looks like that should take care of my needs, even if I have to keep one regular box from Cox to give me the cable in the one room.

I have Cat5 run throughout the house. Right now, I don't watch anything OTA, just from the cable boxes.

I'd appreciate any input on whether or not the switch to Moxi would be a wise choice or not. Between cable, internet, and phone we pay almost $300/month to Cox...ugh.

Thanks in advance for any input

One thing you may want to consider is getting a two room setup and then purchasing an additional moxi box. It is about $300 more but it would allow you to have 5 tuners in the three rooms which should meet most peoples needs. Using the mate isn't a perfect solution, but for most it should work.

The big downsides are that:
-You can't set-up or delete a recording from the mate.
-You take up one of the tuners on the main unit to watch live TV
-Changing channels on the Mate is tedious since it has to go through the process of setting up the channel (takes about 5-10 seconds)

Depending on how many tuners you need I would talk to them and see if you could purchase 2 - 3 tuner moxis and a mate or if you want to get rid of the last cable box order 2 - 2 room setups. The initial cost would be the biggest hurdle as 2 2 room setups would cost $1600 you would be looking at about a 2 year recovery time to break even with the costs. (you would still need to rent 2 cable cards) The two moxis and two mates can work together pulling shows off of each other.
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post #1354 of 6307 Old 02-11-2010, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by John Clark View Post

I was strongly considering going to a Moxi to replace my Comcast HD DVR and came here to see how things were in the current Moxi world. I had no idea they had been bought. This makes me more than a bit concerned that making the investment in one now might be a little too risky.

The irritating nature of the Motorola units that Comcast uses, and especially the storage space limitations are driving me nuts, and I thought the Moxi was my one way out.


John

John,

It is true that Moxi has been bought. However, they have continued to release updates and new features after they been bought. If Arris plans to pull the plug on Moxi, you probably see a slow down in development and enhancements. Furthermore, Arris is larger so it may actually bode well for Moxi to have a bigger name and company behind it.

The bottom line is that if the features and updates continue to get release, it really does not matter who the owner is. I would be worried if Arris pulls all funding Moxi development. However, as you can see in the recent post, Moxi is releasing updates and taking suggestions for improvement.

Lets talk about Tivo. There has not been much innovations in some time now. There has been talk about Tivo go away since it first started. Even though they have not done much lately in terms of innovation, they are still around.

Just my two cents.
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post #1355 of 6307 Old 02-11-2010, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

Enjoy your cable DVRs! You're not going to find anything that meets your requirements, not now and not for the forseeable future. Even if you wanted to build an HTPC with the upcoming Ceton Cablecard tuner it will run you at least $800, which doesn't make your payback criteria.

Think you're wrong on this one, your $800 number is already close to break even for us.... Except for recording from the Mate the Moxi is already at the price & feature point I need. So, yes, I expect I'll get what I need. If the Moxi doesn't do it, something else will; I've been watching this space for too long to believe otherwise (it's part of what I do for a living). However, I don't even need the assumptions that technology pricing will continue it's five decade long trend: my cost to built out a HTPC isn't starting from ground zero; the media storage server is already being built, and there are lots' of machines around the house I could pop a Ceton into when it becomes available and if it is stable and suable enough. We're a tech heavy house hold, just not bleeding edge adopters.

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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

You need to rethink your expectations or significantly lower them (i.e., stick with what you have) because the available Tivo, Moxi, and HTPC cablecard solutions will not qualify.

Tell me, exactly what expectations do I need to rethink? I don't think I've stated any here?
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post #1356 of 6307 Old 02-11-2010, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by scientest View Post

New capabilities are gravy; I don't watch much TV and the rest of the family doesn't know that they are missing anything...

You're the perfect cable DVR customer, and I don't frankly know why you'd be looking at anything else. You don't get into alternatives to save money in 2 years or less (i.e., your expectations).
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post #1357 of 6307 Old 02-11-2010, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

You're the perfect cable DVR customer, and I don't frankly know why you'd be looking at anything else. You don't get into alternatives to save money in 2 years or less (i.e., your expectations).

Got to ask, do you just read one reply and automatically disregard everything that has come before?

Of course you get into alternatives for nothing more than 2 year break even. Two year break even on VOIP, with feature equivalence, happened a couple of years ago. Same thing will happen with DVRs. It's _almost_ here with the Moxi today; one more feature and it would be (which of course is the whole reason for my original post in this thread).
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post #1358 of 6307 Old 02-11-2010, 11:41 AM
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hello. I just discovered this moxi forum here. I'm interested in using it without an M-card, without a cable-card. Free channels only.
[My zenith hdr230 is dying (again). Maybe it's just the hard drive. already swapped it once. Whatever, it's OTA-only. ]
It's unfortunate the moxi doesn't handle OTA as well, but hey, you can't have everything, even with $800 for 3 tuners. :|

Also it seems like moxi can't handle NTSC, but comcast is eliminating NTSC extended-basic anyway.

My question is what are the "gotchas" for those of us with limited-basic service (no pay channels, no scrambled channels.) I might be inspired to upgrade to cablecard or M-card to get "comcast extended-basic" with Moxi - soon all their extended-basic channels will be scrambled/QAM locally, no more NTSC.

cheers...
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post #1359 of 6307 Old 02-11-2010, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by scientest View Post

Of course you get into alternatives for nothing more than 2 year break even. Two year break even on VOIP, with feature equivalence, happened a couple of years ago. Same thing will happen with DVRs. It's _almost_ here with the Moxi today; one more feature and it would be (which of course is the whole reason for my original post in this thread).

For my purposes and with what I was paying Charter I would have essentially had a two year payoff period with the $799 Moxi bundle. Of course I threw that out the window by going with the more expensive two Moxi Mate package and I might add more Mates or Moxis at some point.

What it really came down to for me is that I will be getting significant new benefits compared to Charters DVR. I plan to make use of network media streaming, I will be using an esata DVR expander, and having multiple locations tied into the same set of recordings will be quite handy.
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post #1360 of 6307 Old 02-11-2010, 12:02 PM
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Also it seems like moxi can't handle NTSC, but comcast is eliminating NTSC extended-basic anyway.

You can get an analog cable tuner for Moxi. It allows you to watch and record one analog cable channel. I ordered one for my Moxi setup because charter still has 65 analog only channels where I live.
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post #1361 of 6307 Old 02-11-2010, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by tveli View Post

My question is what are the "gotchas" for those of us with limited-basic service (no pay channels, no scrambled channels.) I might be inspired to upgrade to cablecard or M-card to get "comcast extended-basic" with Moxi - soon all their extended-basic channels will be scrambled/QAM locally, no more NTSC.

I used it for a week without a CC and it was fine. The only problem you might continually face is if your cableco starts shifting channel frequencies around then you'll have to remap the guide to them again.

That's something you'll have to do when you set it up regardless. The Moxi might automatically assign the correct information based on your location but some other channels will need mapping individually to the guide data.


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post #1362 of 6307 Old 02-11-2010, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by scientest View Post

Got to ask, do you just read one reply and automatically disregard everything that has come before?

Of course you get into alternatives for nothing more than 2 year break even. Two year break even on VOIP, with feature equivalence, happened a couple of years ago. Same thing will happen with DVRs. It's _almost_ here with the Moxi today; one more feature and it would be (which of course is the whole reason for my original post in this thread).

Saving nearly $40/month here with the $799 bundle here, right around a 2 year payoff to get specific.

Also, after the two years, I own the product instead of having to return it or keep throwing my money in the garbage for leases and dvr fees.

It's a good investment to me, not to mention the superior features that come along with it. Also, 30 in-home money back guarantee made me take the plunge. After about 2 weeks, I can tell you I'll be keeping it!

nG
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post #1363 of 6307 Old 02-11-2010, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

... Even if you wanted to build an HTPC with the upcoming Ceton Cablecard tuner it will run you at least $800, which doesn't make your payback criteria.

The 4-tuner Ceton card is $399. Did you include the cost of a dedicated HTPC? Many here, including myself, already own HTPC's so the buy in cost is quite reasonable for four cable tuners.
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post #1364 of 6307 Old 02-11-2010, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Garrett Adams View Post

The 4-tuner Ceton card is $399. Did include the cost of a dedicated HTPC? Many here, including myself, already own HTPC's so the buy in cost is quite reasonable for four cable tuners.

You may also need a modern video card if you want quality HD output. Many older video cards can't match the HD output quality of a TiVo or Moxi. Even on the newest video cards, one must generally tweak the output settings to obtain comparable picture quality. There are many threads on the subject, such as this one.

Unlike Moxi extenders, other Windows PCs can't view recorded content from channels with the "copy one generation" bit. That's basically everything on most Brighthouse and TWC systems. That limits viewing on those recordings to a single room, unless you have an authorized Windows Media Center extender like the Xbox360. Ceton says it is possible to network their tuners, so a user could watch liveTV on different PCs, but this doesn't help to access recorded programs.

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post #1365 of 6307 Old 02-11-2010, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Garrett Adams View Post

The 4-tuner Ceton card is $399. Did include the cost of a dedicated HTPC? Many here, including myself, already own HTPC's so the buy in cost is quite reasonable for four cable tuners.

I considered going the Ceton tuner route but I decided on Moxi because of the lack of options for windows media center extenders. The only real option right now is the Xbox 360 which uses a lot of power and generates a lot of fan noise. I did manage to pick up a clearance Linksys 2100 but the user interface performance on those boxes is far from smooth.

What really decided it for me in the end was that I learned that like the Moxi, the Ceton tuner wouldn't be able to do analog cable. Unfortunately there are still 65 analog channels on my cable system. You can add an analog tuner to the Moxi just like you can a MCE computer.

Moxi has a complete hardware solution and it looks like they are continuing to evolve the software side of things.
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post #1366 of 6307 Old 02-12-2010, 07:24 AM
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Regarding the "analog" issue with Moxi, how many markets have analogs that do NOT have a digital equivalent? I'm pretty sure all the analogs left on my system all do have digital equivalents... so for me it all about how many HD we can NOT have because of those very high bandwidth analogs (one can "fit" up to 3 HD channels for every single analog).

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post #1367 of 6307 Old 02-12-2010, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

Regarding the "analog" issue with Moxi, how many markets have analogs that do NOT have a digital equivalent? I'm pretty sure all the analogs left on my system all do have digital equivalents... so for me it all about how many HD we can NOT have because of those very high bandwidth analogs (one can "fit" up to 3 HD channels for every single analog).

Agreed. I grouched last May when local Comcast here eliminated all their analogs. Had to get extra boxes for old analog TV, etc. But over the last 6 months they've added about 25 (yes, 25) more HD channels and more are coming. I'm definately not grouching about that - something they could not have done without clearing out the analogs.
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post #1368 of 6307 Old 02-12-2010, 08:23 AM
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Agreed. I grouched last May when local Comcast here eliminated all their analogs. Had to get extra boxes for old analog TV, etc. But over the last 6 months they've added about 25 (yes, 25) more HD channels and more are coming. I'm definately not grouching about that - something they could not have done without clearing out the analogs.


One of the major reason I went to Moxi was because Comcast eliminated the analog channels. This required a box on each tv I had. By using Moxi and Moxi Mates, I eliminated the extra fees for the TV.
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post #1369 of 6307 Old 02-12-2010, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Riverside_Guy View Post

Regarding the "analog" issue with Moxi, how many markets have analogs that do NOT have a digital equivalent? I'm pretty sure all the analogs left on my system all do have digital equivalents... so for me it all about how many HD we can NOT have because of those very high bandwidth analogs (one can "fit" up to 3 HD channels for every single analog).

I hope that someday I won't have the problem with analog that I do now. My personal viewing is almost 100% HD but my girlfriend likes to watch some of the programming still on analog.

Even with the analog cruft clogging up the system Charter has 40 HD channels in my area.
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post #1370 of 6307 Old 02-12-2010, 11:30 AM
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I bought mine because the interface is cool
It is fun to use
it kicks my HD TIVO in the ass
not break even or save money
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post #1371 of 6307 Old 02-12-2010, 12:12 PM
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I bought mine because the interface is cool
It is fun to use
it kicks my HD TIVO in the ass
not break even or save money

I agree, except in my case, it kicks any other options I had including Tivo and the Comcast SA 8300HD that is worse than even the admittedly bad Motorola DVR that we couldn't even get in my area.

I don't understand why "break even" is even a factor for home entertainment gear. I guess it is because the cable and dish companies have led us into viewing the DVR as a recurring cost service rather than just another AV component or accessory.

I bet nobody did a break even analysis on their HDTV, surround sound speakers, Blu-Ray player, or AV receiver.
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I bet nobody did a break even analysis on their HDTV, surround sound speakers, Blu-Ray player, or AV receiver.

But you can't get an HDTV from your cable company for $15.00 per month!
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post #1373 of 6307 Old 02-12-2010, 12:33 PM
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But you can't get an HDTV from your cable company for $15.00 per month!

And I can't get a Moxi hd from my cable company for $15 either
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post #1374 of 6307 Old 02-12-2010, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bshoe54 View Post

I don't understand why "break even" is even a factor for home entertainment gear. I guess it is because the cable and dish companies have led us into viewing the DVR as a recurring cost service rather than just another AV component or accessory.

I bet nobody did a break even analysis on their HDTV, surround sound speakers, Blu-Ray player, or AV receiver.

I think that's a bet you'd loose; millions of consumers have being doing exactly that vis-a-vis Blue Ray for the last couple of years even if they where not consciously aware of it: Blue Ray just did not offer enough incremental new function -- compared to DVDs -- for the price until recently, and the year over year sales figures show exactly how that analysis has worked out.

That aside, you've really got two separate issues here:

1) cost of new functionality;

2) cost of replacement functionality;

In the 1st case, I do look at cost of acquisition vs. feature set vs. technology maturity. As I indicated, I'm not an early adopter (at least not often). Didn't get my 1st flat screen until 3 years ago. Only got my 1st Blue Ray last year.

I've more-or-less touched on the 2nd case, but in a nutshell; it's got to make sense to me economically before I'll replace something that is already a working solution. In the case of the Moxi, we don't (yet) completely get a replacement for our current functionality (being able to program the DVR from multiple rooms) so the economics have to really be in place to make the jump, and they just aren't there yet.

I get that people love their Moxi's, I'm sure we'd love it if we had it. However, there are a million toys out there to spend your money on and I've just got to be careful which ones I spend my limited cash supply on.

So, bottom line at the moment: wait until we see what the new Tivo announcement will mean in terms of function and prices. Ie; will it impact Moxi price points? Will it offer up new functions that Moxi needs to catch up to? Will it (heaven forbid), be an even better product than the Moxi? Hopefully, in a couple of months I'll have justification for dumping the Comcast based DVRs, and at the moment, I'd love for a Moxi to be the replacement...
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post #1375 of 6307 Old 02-12-2010, 01:05 PM
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For those people that already have their Moxi unit up and running, do you have any advice on preparing for the transition from the cable company DVR(s) to the Moxi? I am considering getting the 3-tuner Moxi + 2 Mates. Is there anything special that I need to ask the cable company (Cablevision in my case) when calling for the M-card install? Is the SDV adapter easy to install? I am trying to simplify the transition as much as possible to raise the overall WAF. I can deal with my family taking some extra time to adapt to the new interface, but I don't want to be in a situation where we miss a few days of recorded shows because "Dad's new $1000 toy" doesn't work.

Thanks...
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post #1376 of 6307 Old 02-12-2010, 01:12 PM
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For those people that already have their Moxi unit up and running, do you have any advice on preparing for the transition from the cable company DVR(s) to the Moxi? I am considering getting the 3-tuner Moxi + 2 Mates. Is there anything special that I need to ask the cable company (Cablevision in my case) when calling for the M-card install? Is the SDV adapter easy to install? I am trying to simplify the transition as much as possible to raise the overall WAF. I can deal with my family taking some extra time to adapt to the new interface, but I don't want to be in a situation where we miss a few days of recorded shows because "Dad's new $1000 toy" doesn't work.

Thanks...

Really nothing to prepare. Have the Moxi setup, connected to your network and to the internet, and activated through the Moxi website. The install of the CableCard will be accomplished by the cable technician (at least it was for me). This took a little time for them to get it properly activated. Then BINGO! Your in business!. Activate the mates and your streaming live and recorded TV!

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post #1377 of 6307 Old 02-12-2010, 01:26 PM
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Yes I agree with Flyer, and just familliarize yourself with the Moxi settings menu, the tech is going to want to use the remote and it's good to know how to work it.

And the WAF is high at least for me it was. Once she got used to the different style listings she loved it. It's different than the grid but you can go to a particular channel, then click once to the right and scroll through all the upcoming shows on that network, hour by hour and pick what you'd like to record.

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post #1378 of 6307 Old 02-12-2010, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by scientest View Post

I think that's a bet you'd loose; millions of consumers have being doing exactly that vis-a-vis Blue Ray for the last couple of years even if they where not consciously aware of it: Blue Ray just did not offer enough incremental new function -- compared to DVDs -- for the price until recently, and the year over year sales figures show exactly how that analysis has worked out.

This is exactly my point. The decision to move to Blu-Ray over standard DVD is typiclly based more on perceived "cost/benefit" vs a fully objective "break even" analysis. The decision to adopt a new or different technology is typically made on the perceived benefit factors as you pointed out.

The only reason that "break even" comes into play in this situation is that there is a less feature rich technology option available at a monthly rental cost rather than only direct purchase options.

It is really just a matter of symantics. Everyone should make their own analysis before they buy in to any technology. It just appears to me that even in your own situation, the fact that the potential of new or better functionality doesn't yet outweigh the cost is a stronger motivator than whether or not you will recoup your outlay after two years.
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post #1379 of 6307 Old 02-12-2010, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by jonnyb View Post

I am considering getting the 3-tuner Moxi + 2 Mates. Is there anything special that I need to ask the cable company (Cablevision in my case) when calling for the M-card install? Is the SDV adapter easy to install?

The use of the SDV tuning adaptor on Cablevision will turn your 3 tuner Moxi into a 2 tuner Moxi.
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post #1380 of 6307 Old 02-12-2010, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bshoe54 View Post

It just appears to me that even in your own situation, the fact that the potential of new or better functionality doesn't yet outweigh the cost is a stronger motivator than whether or not you will recoup your outlay after two years.

Not really, I'd even be willing to loose some functionality if the break even point was within 2 years. However, the one piece of functionality I can't loose is the ability to schedule from multiple rooms...
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