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post #181 of 6292 Old 05-30-2009, 02:58 AM
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Tagged for further reviews. I am going to FIOS on the 10th of June and already do not like the box just for the storage alone. So I am interested to see if the Moxi is worth the money or just go with Tivo. We had Directivo for years and really enjoyed them, so going back to Tivo would be nice but we are open to new options.

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post #182 of 6292 Old 05-30-2009, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

I had two ReplayTVs on a wired network and multi-room streaming was glitch-free as long as you didn't use high quality for recording. But that was with slow processor boxes and was SD, not HD. So I too am curious if the Moxi will be able to provide a seamless experience for a max-rate 1080i HD stream between two boxes.

Tivo's system is a poor substitute for streaming, IMO, because you can't transfer copy-protected shows, and you don't need another copy on the other box anyway.

Until proven that Moxi-Mate streams perfectly I have no problem with TiVo's file transfer system as a means of insuring against dropouts or pixelation. Back when all the ballyhoo was about ReplayTV's new capability of streaming on a LAN (actually the most ballyhoo was about ReplayTV's file sharing across the internet) I never really 'got it', considering the sometimes glitchy results. Yeah, you could send programs over a(n ethernet) wire, but what is intrinsically better about that than sending a video signal over a (coax) wire, or nowadays, HDMI or component video wires (other than reducing the number of wires? )

Unfortunately the other aspect of TiVo's transfer system, copy-protection, IS a significant problem, depending on a viewer's cable co. Here, Comcast apparently copy protects all premium channels, making MRV useless.

(Please correct me if I'm wrong but) I assume TiVo's file-transfer system isn't sophisticated enough to interact with Comcast's copy protection flagging to disable transfers only between two TiVo's which don't both employ CableCARDS? I've got one S3 with CC's and the other without. There'd be some logic in restricting such transfers (from Comcast's POV), but is that why TiVo's MRV doesn't work for me on premium channels?
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post #183 of 6292 Old 05-30-2009, 11:49 AM
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The Moxi needs a multi-stream cable card. I talked to local comcast and they have a "dual cable card", is that the same thing?

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post #184 of 6292 Old 05-30-2009, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundance View Post

The Moxi needs a multi-stream cable card. I talked to local comcast and they have a "dual cable card", is that the same thing?

Yes. M-CARDs are the only CableCards still in widespread use. All other cards were discontinued ~15 months ago.

At this point, you won't see the older single-stream CableCards (S-CARDs) anywhere unless one was just returned by a customer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

Unfortunately the other aspect of TiVo's transfer system, copy-protection, IS a significant problem, depending on a viewer's cable co. Here, Comcast apparently copy protects all premium channels, making MRV useless.

(Please correct me if I'm wrong but) I assume TiVo's file-transfer system isn't sophisticated enough to interact with Comcast's copy protection flagging to disable transfers only between two TiVo's which don't both employ CableCARDS? I've got one S3 with CC's and the other without. There'd be some logic in restricting such transfers (from Comcast's POV), but is that why TiVo's MRV doesn't work for me on premium channels?

Cable providers can flag cable channels as "copy freely" or "copy one generation" (no further copies after DVR copy). Most Comcast cable channels are flagged as "copy freely," so there are no restrictions on the ability to transfer recordings from those channels. In contrast, premium movie channels (HBO, Showtime, etc) are almost always flagged as "copy one generation" which prohibits those recordings from being copied to another DVR; it also prohibits downloads to a computer. These aren't TiVo's requirements; these are CableLabs' requirements, which every manufacturer must agree to before they can sell a CableCard product.

Streaming is permitted for such copy protected programs so long as (a) an authorized encryption system is used and (b) no portion of the program is saved. DTCP-IP is one authorized encryption system, and that is what Moxi will use to stream all recordings.

Of course, it is always possible --although unlikely, imo-- that TiVo will add streaming MRV with DTCP-IP at around the same time that Moxi adds that feature. At the moment, all we can do is compare the TiVo's older MRV implementation to Moxi's non-existent (but promised) implementation.
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post #185 of 6292 Old 05-30-2009, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundance View Post

The Moxi needs a multi-stream cable card. I talked to local comcast and they have a "dual cable card", is that the same thing?

Yes, it's the same thing.

FYI, Moxi doesn't require an 'M' CableCARD to receive unscrambled QAM channels but without a CC won't show the corresponding Basic Cable channel number and program info. However Moxi allows a user to manually map (link) unscrambled QAM channels to their correct channel designation and program descriptions. A CableCARD IS required to receive premium channels and automatically provides the correct channel designation and program info for all received channels.
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post #186 of 6292 Old 05-30-2009, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

...premium movie channels (HBO, Showtime, etc) are almost always flagged as "copy one generation" which prohibits those recordings from being copied to another DVR; it also prohibits downloads to a computer. These aren't TiVo's requirements; these are CableLabs' requirements, which every manufacturer must agree to before they can sell a CableCard product.

Streaming is permitted for such copy protected programs so long as (a) an authorized encryption system is used and (b) no portion of the program is saved. DTCP-IP is one authorized encryption system, and that is what Moxi will use to stream all recordings.

Here's some good info about DTCP-IP:
http://www.dtcp.com/dtcpfaq.htm

Also, an example of CrunchGear's amateur reporting:
http://www.crunchgear.com/2007/08/24...comes-dtcp-ip/
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post #187 of 6292 Old 06-08-2009, 02:33 PM
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So I got a Moxi recently and this past weekend hooked it up. After spending a few hours with Comcast support person (who was very helpful) on the phone to activate the MCard, it worked. Except it stops working after about 10 minutes or so and gives me a message saying I am not subscribed to that channel and have to call the service provider to subscribe to it. If I restart my Moxi, it again works for another 5-10 mins before the same thing happens again. Comcast support is supposed to come home tomorrow to see if they can fix it, but I thought I will also ask here if anyone else has seen this before or have any idea why this is happening.

TIA for any help
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post #188 of 6292 Old 06-09-2009, 12:56 PM
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I do not have a MOXI, as I am waiting to see just what the MINI will do in another room. I think I have seen some say that sometimes it is the cable card, or signal level, that is to blame. Also, sometimes it is too much signal that is the cause. I even had this with a Comcast box. Try a splitter to drop the signal strength to see if it helps. Comcast has attenuators that they can try, but I hope they bring out a new MCard just in cast!
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post #189 of 6292 Old 06-09-2009, 01:23 PM
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I think I am just about ready to take the plunge. Almost all of my questions have been answered either here in this thread or on the moxi website. The one thing I am not clear on is Moxi's ownership transfer policy. If sometime down the road I decide to switch providers, am I free to sell my Moxi? Are there any limitations on it? Will the person who gets it have any trouble activating it? I searched the Moxi website, but couldn't find anything on it at all. Does anyone here have any insight? Thanks.
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post #190 of 6292 Old 06-09-2009, 08:43 PM
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To the folks at Digeo, drop the price to $699 and add an ATSC tuner and I'll buy one...
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post #191 of 6292 Old 06-10-2009, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongRufus View Post

I think I am just about ready to take the plunge. Almost all of my questions have been answered either here in this thread or on the moxi website. The one thing I am not clear on is Moxi's ownership transfer policy. If sometime down the road I decide to switch providers, am I free to sell my Moxi? Are there any limitations on it? Will the person who gets it have any trouble activating it? I searched the Moxi website, but couldn't find anything on it at all. Does anyone here have any insight? Thanks.

You can remove the device from your account and remove all personal settings through the UI (it's under Settings->Moxi Setup->reset).

Whoever you gave it to can then activate it the same way you did at moxi.com.
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post #192 of 6292 Old 06-11-2009, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prodwel1 View Post

I just placed an order, via the Moxi website, for the HD DVR. I was directed to PayPal, where the actual transaction took place. As soon as I submitted through PayPal, I was re-directed to Moxi's home page with no confirmation of order. I did, however, receive a confirmation email from PayPal that my transaction was completed and 'sent' to Moxi. I'm wondering when I'll get my order and shipping information?

Quote:
Originally Posted by prodwel1 View Post

I got my own question answered with a call to an extremely friendly Moxi rep. Apparently, the PayPal order process is handled completely separately from the Amazon process on the back-end. All of the PayPal orders are actually aggregated through a single woman at the Moxi office, who responds to each order by sending a 'welcome' email and then she sends your info to their distribution center.

So in case anyone uses the PayPal payment feature and is wondering why they didn't receive a confirmation, just be patient and rest assured that your order will be personally handled.

And I must also mention how friendly and conversational the customer service reps are - that's rare these days!

I just placed my order. That is a very odd policy they have in place. Exiting the Paypal website really does leave you scratching your head. I did get a welcome email from Moxi, but it was short on details about my transaction. Basically just a thank you, your Moxi will ship in a day or two and some CableCard info.

The one thing I do need to figure out is how to add the optional analog tuner. I didn't see it anywhere during the signup process and there is no way to register an online account until my Moxi arrives. I guess I will send Customer Service an email or give them a call.
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post #193 of 6292 Old 06-12-2009, 05:39 AM
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Before buying Moxi I emailed them asking about the analog dongle. I wanted the dongle available during Moxi's 30 day money back guarantee period. They agreed to ship it at the same time as the Moxi box and I received them both at the same time. Moxi waived additional shipping charges for the dongle although I didn't ask them to.

Defenitely email Moxi with your order number and request the dongle. Moxi has the best Customer Service that I've run across in recent years; personable, knowledgable and helpful!
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post #194 of 6292 Old 06-12-2009, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

Moxi has the best Customer Service that I've run across in recent years; personable, knowledgable and helpful!

I wanted to look into a Moxi HD, but had a few questions first. IF they had the best Customer Service, they would publish a phone number where you could ask pre-sales questions. Some things are just not easy to ask in ongoing emails back and forth.
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post #195 of 6292 Old 06-12-2009, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpsan View Post

I wanted to look into a Moxi HD, but had a few questions first. IF they had the best Customer Service, they would publish a phone number where you could ask pre-sales questions. Some things are just not easy to ask in ongoing emails back and forth.

Did you see CHAT WITH US OR CALL US AT 877-933-4430
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post #196 of 6292 Old 06-12-2009, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by pdellera View Post

Did you see CHAT WITH US OR CALL US AT 877-933-4430

I guess I did not. :-)

Was that just added? I will look at the site again. I just looked and it is there. I never saw it the first time I went to the site!

Thank you,

MP


*********UPDATE***********

The site now does not have the number and live chat showing again. Do they take it down after hours?
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post #197 of 6292 Old 06-13-2009, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

Moxi has the best Customer Service that I've run across in recent years; personable, knowledgable and helpful!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpsan View Post

I wanted to look into a Moxi HD, but had a few questions first. IF they had the best Customer Service, they would publish a phone number where you could ask pre-sales questions. Some things are just not easy to ask in ongoing emails back and forth.

Touche!

Moxi plays their cards close to the vest with regards to phone contacts from the general public, I presume to minimize costs. Once a buyer opens an account there's phone contact available at Moxi Customer Support at a different 800 number than posted earlier in this thread:

Agent support available:
Monday - Friday: 6:00AM - 9:00PM PST
Saturday - Sunday: 6:00AM - 4:00PM PST


I'd suggest emailing Moxi, asking for a phone contact. But if that's too much hassle there's always TiVo which makes a great tried-and-true DVR and only offers phone support.

Moxi isn't TiVo and TiVo isn't Moxi. Their philosophies regarding DVRs are significantly different. Some particular TiVo features are much better than Moxi's, but I like the overall Moxi experience better. That's not to say that Moxi is better than TiVo; it isn't; but it's refreshingly different.
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post #198 of 6292 Old 06-13-2009, 09:59 AM
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It's different for sure, and with the current $500 Father's Day offer for a Tivo HD w/lifetime, it's at least $200 more expensive.
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post #199 of 6292 Old 06-13-2009, 12:20 PM
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Thank you. I may try that number Monday. An email is not a problem and I may request a number to call for pre-sales. IF they know what the MINI will be, I would like to know more about it. I will not buy the full Moxi without knowing just what it will do and the price range. It would have to stream HD and if you could get live TV as well it would be great.

Regarding the $500 TiVo deal, do they buffer 1+ hours? Also, I believe that if you can stream HD to another room, it is with another TiVo. Is that correct?
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post #200 of 6292 Old 06-13-2009, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

It's different for sure, and with the current $500 Father's Day offer for a Tivo HD w/lifetime, it's at least $200 more expensive.

But don't forget to set aside some of that $200 savings to upgrade the Tivo HD's tiny 160GB drive.
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post #201 of 6292 Old 06-13-2009, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongRufus View Post

But don't forget to set aside some of that $200 savings to upgrade the Tivo HD's tiny 160GB drive.

...and will it stream HD to an inexpensive box? Also, does anyone know how much of a buffer it has? My Comcast is only 20 minutes of HD!
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post #202 of 6292 Old 06-13-2009, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpsan View Post

Regarding the $500 TiVo deal, do they buffer 1+ hours?

The TivoHD's buffer is 30 minutes of HD per tuner (1 hour total).

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpsan View Post

Also, I believe that if you can stream HD to another room, it is with another TiVo. Is that correct?

TiVo allows you to transfer recordings to other TiVos and watch the recordings as they transfer. Moxi does not currently allow its recordings to be viewed on another box, but they expect to add streaming capability by summer's end with the lower-cost "Moxi Mate" device.

A comparison of TiVo and Moxi was posted back on page three of this thread. This comparison reflects the latest software on both products.
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post #203 of 6292 Old 06-13-2009, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpsan View Post

...will it stream HD to an inexpensive box? Also, does anyone know how much of a buffer it has? My Comcast is only 20 minutes of HD!

All TiVo's employ a 30 minute recording buffer (per tuner) which can be turned into a recording if the program being buffered is still ongoing and selected for recording within 30± mins. after it starts.

HDTivo can transfer video files to another HDTiVo or a PC. Depending on a user's location some cable co. copy flags (like Comcast's here) effectively disable TiVo's ability to transfer video files. Moxi's promising a not yet available streaming technology which will ignore copy flag limitations and currently doesn't offer anything like TiVo's somewhat limited transfering capabilities.

Moxi uses a variable length stepped buffer which ranges from approximately from 1.5 to 4 or more hours long (per tuner) linked to a program's actual length, unlike any other DVR. Moxi's buffer length isn't dependent on a program's bitrate; hi-def and standard-def are treated similiarly. Moxi can turn its buffer into a recording only if a buffered program is still ongoing.

I've had the beginning of Moxi's buffer step forward while a long program was being recorded which truncated the recording. After contacting Moxi's Customer Service I was told the problem was corrected. I haven't seen the problem since but don't know for sure if it's been fixed as normally I don't start recording a program from far back in an ongoing buffer.
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post #204 of 6292 Old 06-13-2009, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongRufus View Post

But don't forget to set aside some of that $200 savings to upgrade the Tivo HD's tiny 160GB drive.

Since the price difference between Moxi and TiVo's Father's Day Special is $300 I bet slowbiscuit already factored that in. TiVo's Father's Day Special is a good deal!
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post #205 of 6292 Old 06-13-2009, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpsan View Post

...and will it stream HD to an inexpensive box? Also, does anyone know how much of a buffer it has? My Comcast is only 20 minutes of HD!

I'm in the same boat, replacing my Comcast DVR. Moxi's biggest selling point for me was the 1.5 hr HD buffer per tuner. As far as the streaming goes, they have a Moxi Mate coming out sometime this summer, but pricing and concrete details are scarce right now. I personally don't have any expectations for it. If it turns out well, I'll pick one up. If not, I'll skip it.

I ordered my Moxi on Thursday. I considered the Tivo XL with lifetime, but passed. My top 3 reasons for choosing Moxi were:
1. The HD buffers.
2. The $39 for 20 months installment plan w/ 30 day trial.
3. Universal e-sata external drive support with no marriage to the internal DVR drive.
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post #206 of 6292 Old 06-13-2009, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

Since the price difference between Moxi and TiVo's Father's Day Special is $300 I bet slowbiscuit already factored that in. TiVo's Father's Day Special is a good deal!

It is a good deal, but the 160 GB is so small, you are almost forced to upgrade the drive. Even if they made it 250 or 300 GB, you could get by with it. I have to admit though, if they offered the $200 discount on the Tivo XL w/ lifetime, I would have had a much more difficult decision.
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post #207 of 6292 Old 06-13-2009, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongRufus View Post

I'm in the same boat, replacing my Comcast DVR. Moxi's biggest selling point for me was the 1.5 hr HD buffer per tuner. As far as the streaming goes, they have a Moxi Mate coming out sometime this summer, but pricing and concrete details are scarce right now. I personally don't have any expectations for it. If it turns out well, I'll pick one up. If not, I'll skip it.

I ordered my Moxi on Thursday. I considered the Tivo XL with lifetime, but passed. My top 3 reasons for choosing Moxi were:
1. The HD buffers.
2. The $39 for 20 months installment plan w/ 30 day trial.
3. Universal e-sata external drive support with no marriage to the internal DVR drive.

I like reason 1 and 3 as well. I do think that 75 hours of HD would be great for a while here!

However, to all of those who mentioned the $500 Fathers day Deal...TiVo just now told me that it is NOT for NEW Customers!

The reason we like the big buffer is that my wife and I often get to bed later than we planned and miss the news and/or the start of The Tonight Show. The Comcast 20 minute buffer is not enough and TiVo's 30 minute one is not much better!

If the Moxi Mate is about $100 that would be a BIG plus over having to buy 2 TiVo's and if it would stream Live TV it would be GREAT! A big savings on our Comcast bill!
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post #208 of 6292 Old 06-13-2009, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mpsan View Post

The reason we like the big buffer is that my wife and I often get to bed later than we planned and miss the news and/or the start of The Tonight Show. The Comcast 20 minute buffer is not enough and TiVo's 30 minute one is not much better!

No matter what DVR you buy, you can set it to record those programs. I have my TiVo set to record the daily news and The Tonight Show with "keep one episode," so the news for the current day automatically replaces the news from the previous day. That way, I always have the latest episodes of those daily programs with no clutter or wasted space. You can do that on the Moxi DVR and Comcast DVR, too.

On a high-capacity DVR, the buffer is only useful when you don't know what you want to watch, imo. If there's a program you like to watch, or even watch occasionally, then you record it. With the Motorola DVR, perhaps you had to worry about limited storage, but storage is a non-issue on upgraded TivoHD, TivoHD XL, and Moxi DVRs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpsan View Post

If the Moxi Mate is about $100 that would be a BIG plus over having to buy 2 TiVo's and if it would stream Live TV it would be GREAT! A big savings on our Comcast bill!

You should not expect the Moxi Mate to support liveTV. Moxi has only demoed / discussed streaming playback of recordings.
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post #209 of 6292 Old 06-13-2009, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

No matter what DVR you buy, you can set it to record those programs. I have my TiVo set to record the daily news and The Tonight Show with "keep one episode," so the news for the current day automatically replaces the news from the previous day. That way, I always have the latest episodes of those daily programs with no clutter or wasted space. You can do that on the Moxi DVR and Comcast DVR, too.

On a high-capacity DVR, the buffer is only useful when you don't know what you want to watch, imo. If there's a program you like to watch, or even watch occasionally, then you record it. With the Motorola DVR, perhaps you had to worry about limited storage, but storage is a non-issue on upgraded TivoHD, TivoHD XL, and Moxi DVRs.

You should not expect the Moxi Mate to support liveTV. Moxi has only demoed / discussed streaming playback of recordings.

OK, well we like the buffer as we don't care that much. Still, that may be something to think about...keeping only 1 episode.

I thought the mention of the Moxi Mate said it would stream all of the capabilities of the Moxi HD. Still, $100 would be a good ROI even if I kept one HD Box from Comcast with no dvr. In that way, I could get On Demand, too.
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post #210 of 6292 Old 06-13-2009, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by fallingwater View Post

...
I'd suggest emailing Moxi, asking for a phone contact...

Or you can just look them up in the phone book, call them, and ask for technical support, pre-sales, etc. That worked fine for me .
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