The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 12 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #331 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 06:10 AM
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I have a Harmony 520 remote. When I program it with the previously suggested VIP625 selection it sends a signal to turn it on but it seems the burst is so short is won't turn on. Anyone have a suggestion?
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post #332 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 06:42 AM
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Interesting news regarding the sata drive replacement. I am quite anxious to find out if it is possible to pull the recorded programs off the drive and what format they are in.

Sailn...
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post #333 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

The buffer differences are a non-issue for DVRs.

I'm not fully convinced. We are dropping from a 7200 RPM drive to 5400 RPM. In a fragmented scenario, it seems that more buffering might be necessary. But likely 8 MB is enough, as you say...
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Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

The only mode that really matters for a DVR is read/write, which is 5.4 vs 6.0 watts.

?? I expect most of our boxes will spend MUCH more time in idle than either reading or writing. In that case, it is a slightly larger saving of 2.5W vs. 3.3W. In either case, the savings is around 2/3W using the drive I have specified.

Note that in comparison to the stock drive, the savings is about 2.4 W in read/write and about 4.7 W in idle. Thats a big savings in terms of electricity consumption and heat generation, particularly if you add in the additional savings due to sub-unity power supply efficiency.
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Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

I would not be surprised if these were essentially the same drive with different firmwares.

If they had identical chip hardware, I would suspect the standby and sleep power would be the same, but they are not. As such, I suspect they have the same mechanical hardware, but a different chipset and firmware. The power dissipation affects the temperature rise within the case and, more importantly, the temperature rise of the hard drive itself.
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Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

The "Preemptive Wear Leveling" feature on the WD5000AVVS could be responsible for the extra consumption. Or the WD5000AACS numbers could assume some power savings from the extra cache, which would not be realized in a DVR application. These numbers are all estimates based on a particular usage model, which may or may not be the same for both drives.

Agreed. In fact, the Preemptive Wear Leveling and IntelliPark are two benefits of the WD50000AVVS that look interesting for a DVR. Though I suspect that IntelliPark is on both drives.
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Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

It if it were me, I would not buy either drive now. I would wait until other members verify that 500GB is the largest supported size. I would hate to order a 500GB drive now and then see a member find a working 1TB drive in a few days. However, if I had to order a drive now, I would still opt for the WD50000AVVS, assuming it could be found for roughly the same price.

I'm satisfied that 500GB would be enough storage for my needs. I'll still opt for the WD5000AACS as my experience tells me that operating temperature is the key indicator of life, not just for the drive, but for the whole unit. I expect the MAIN feature that makes the WD5000AVVS a "Consumer Electronics" product is that it can be manufactured more cheaply. Just because *we* can purchase the other drive more cheaply does not mean a manufacturer can do the same when purchasing in large quantities. The simple fact is that I expect either of the drives we are considering will allow the drive and the unit to run considerably cooler (and therefore longer) than the stock drive does, while doubling the capacity.
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Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Before you buy any drive, and I would take another look at the instructions to make sure it is something that you are comfortable doing. I stuck the instructions in the first post under FAQ #8.

Thanks for the instructions! In fact, thanks for the entire first post. It's awesome! No problem tearing down consumer electronics.

The good news here is that we can get up to 500GB (at least) with this DVR and that we can replace our drives if/when they die. Reducing the power consumption within the DVR should increase the life of all the hardware, not just the drive.

I'll be measuring overall power dissipation (with the stock drive) soon and will post the results here when I have them.
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post #334 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 07:11 AM
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Last night (12:15am), while watching live TV, the DVR's red light came on and I lost the picture. I tried the power button, but it didn't do anything. Since I was tired I just turned off the TV and went to bed. This morning, the DVR was still on with the red light and I still couldn't do anything. So I unplugged the unit and plugged it back in. Upon doing so the unit came back on with the red light. However, I was able to power down now. I turned the unit back on and I got a Dish Network Initialization screen followed by a message stating that the unit was updating the guide.

I get TVGOS and I have not done the firmware upgrade. Any ideas?
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post #335 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avnstf View Post

I wonder if someone who has relatively complete TVGOS program guide info would specifically check to see if the program descriptions say whether programs such as prime-time dramas are new or repeats. The TVGOS-based DVRs that I am familiar with use the actual TV Guide style program guide, and these have stylized symbols for new or repeat, but the Pal DVR uses the Dish-style program guide instead, and doesn't appear to use the special symbols of TVGOS. So, if the guide has this info, it would presumably be part of the program descriptions for individual programs, which would probably use something like an R to indicate repeats, or - if its indications are designed in the opposite direction - it would probably have N for new.

Of course, right now there are NO new episodes of prime-time dramas, so if it uses the latter indication (i.e., N), we would not now see anything, so we may have to wait until mid-January to know for sure. (I'm just not so sure whether these indicaions are used for other types of programs, e.g., sports)...

Thanks - Tony

I did not see the guide showing as new or repeat either.
I hope it will or plan to do so with a future update.
But if not I can always go into the computer room and look it up on TitanTV.com
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post #336 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cavemaster View Post

Note the "Designed in the UK 2008 (upper middle) and the "Made in China" (just below the can over the CPU)

So I assume this means the same guys that wrote the Pal CECB firmware wrote the firmware for this unit - kinda makes sense. Maybe that's why we haven't seen any further updates for the CECB - guys are busy writing firmware for the DVR - inlcuding the F202 version and probably more to come.

If the trend from the CECB follows there'll be a flurry of updates in the first few months and then level off.

Hmmm.. I wonder if any Echostar folks lurk in these threads, see the tinkering going on (replacement HDDs) and may change the firmware to curb such activity
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post #337 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 07:45 AM
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Hi all,

Here is some power consumption data from the DTVPal DVR. All measurements were made using a Brand Power Meter Model 20-1850. Firmware version is F202TALD-N and all recordings were done with the Smart Card removed.

Plug-in peak: 32 W
Standby (not recording): 20-21 W
Standby power factor: 61%
On (watching HDTV): 23 W
On (paused): 23 W
On (watching and recording HDTV (1080i)): 23 W
On (watching and recording 2 HDTV (1080i) channels): 23 W
Standby (recording 1 HDTV (1080i) channel): 21 W
Standby (recording 2 HDTV (1080i) channels): 22 W

Overall, it looks like we will live in a band of 20 W to 23 W, depending on the mode. Clearly there is a lot of room for improvement, assuming there is sufficient control in place. The biggest improvement that could be made easily would be to spin down the hard drive when not in use.

I will redo these measurements once another hard disk is substituted to see how things fare. Are their other power measurements that others would like to see? (I'm out of ideas...)

Reg
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post #338 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_Chachi View Post

Last night (12:15am), while watching live TV, the DVR's red light came on and I lost the picture. I tried the power button, but it didn't do anything. Since I was tired I just turned off the TV and went to bed. This morning, the DVR was still on with the red light and I still couldn't do anything. So I unplugged the unit and plugged it back in. Upon doing so the unit came back on with the red light. However, I was able to power down now. I turned the unit back on and I got a Dish Network Initialization screen followed by a message stating that the unit was updating the guide.

I get TVGOS and I have not done the firmware upgrade. Any ideas?

I had the same issue the other day at 3:45am. The red light was on and the unit was un-responsive. I tried holding the power on the remote thinking it might reset, but nothing. Ended up having to unplug (Didn't want to) and waiting 30 seconds plugging it back in. Did a check of the hard disk and a quick format to see if any errors. Works fine now. Not sure what happened. The only thing I think is it may have tried to record a local channel that goes off air @ 1:00am. Not sure if that's the cause though.
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post #339 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 08:00 AM
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Reg: Thank you for the power usage figures. This would be my first DVR if I choose to buy it, and I've read some stories of units running at 50+ watts. Granted, those were satellite and cable boxes, which might have been doing more processing due to retrieving the required signal. I'm looking forward to seeing how low you can get the numbers after a hard drive swap.



bfdtv: Excellent job on the first post!! It looks like you stayed up late last night working on it
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post #340 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_Chachi View Post

Last night...the DVR's red light came on and I lost the picture...I tried the power button, but it didn't do anything.

I had the same experience two nights ago. I unplugged/replugged the power cord and the problem has not recurred since/yet.?
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post #341 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 08:16 AM
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Quote:


I had the same issue the other day at 3:45am. The red light was on and the unit was un-responsive. I tried holding the power on the remote thinking it might reset, but nothing. Ended up having to unplug (Didn't want to) and waiting 30 seconds plugging it back in. Did a check of the hard disk and a quick format to see if any errors. Works fine now. Not sure what happened. The only thing I think is it may have tried to record a local channel that goes off air @ 1:00am. Not sure if that's the cause though.

I'm not sure of the cause, but for me I was watching a 24hr Leave it to Beaver marathon so the channel wasn't going off air.
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post #342 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RegGuheert View Post

Are their other power measurements that others would like to see? (I'm out of ideas...)

I'd like to know if one cut the power to the HDD if the unit would still update the TVGOS or if like some Pioneer DVDRs the TVGOS is somehow stored on the HDD. If not I could see installing a inline power switch to cut power to the HDD for the 20 hours a day I wouldn't be using it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Smith View Post

bfdtv: Excellent job on the first post!! It looks like you stayed up late last night working on it

I second that, dfdtv does excellent work and I'm glad we have him contributing to this thread. If he ever gets one I'm sure we'll get some excellent screen shots. I've followed his posts on other threads.
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post #343 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super_Chachi View Post

Last night (12:15am), while watching live TV, the DVR's red light came on and I lost the picture. I tried the power button, but it didn't do anything. Since I was tired I just turned off the TV and went to bed. This morning, the DVR was still on with the red light and I still couldn't do anything. So I unplugged the unit and plugged it back in. Upon doing so the unit came back on with the red light. However, I was able to power down now. I turned the unit back on and I got a Dish Network Initialization screen followed by a message stating that the unit was updating the guide.

I get TVGOS and I have not done the firmware upgrade. Any ideas?

I had the same issue with mine. It locked up overnight with both the red and green lights on. I had to unplug the unit and plug it back up as well to get it back to normal operation....
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post #344 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 08:36 AM
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Something similar happened to mine the first day while I was
going through a menu.
I thought maybe I just hit buttons too fast on the remote.
The good news is, it hasn't done it again since.
Perhaps the fw upgrade addresses this quirk (I won't be updating
the fw until its on the web for use with USB).

Edit: The more I use this machine the more I love it.
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post #345 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

I'd like to know if one cut the power to the HDD if the unit would still update the TVGOS or if like some Pioneer DVDRs the TVGOS is somehow stored on the HDD.

The TVGOS data does NOT go away when you unplug the unit, even for over 1/2 hour. Nor do scheduled recordings. I don't know if it will retain it indefinitely, however.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

If not I could see installing a inline power switch to cut power to the HDD for the 20 hours a day I wouldn't be using it.

I'm interested in such a solution, also, if it's not too Rube Goldberg. I wonder if there might be other issues that crop up in trying do do this...
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post #346 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 08:45 AM
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bfdtv, I greatly appreciated your detailed explanations in FAQs. I'm coming out of the dark ages of VCR, and it's so much clearer now. Thank you!
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post #347 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RegGuheert View Post

Thanks! With a 500 GB limit, here is the drive I would like to try: WD5000AACS. While it spins at only 5400 RPM, it is, by far, the lowest-power 3.5" solution available. I suspect the performance will be sufficient to meet the needs of this DVR.

Does anyone have one of these lying around that they can test? If not, I'll probably go ahead and pick one up.

Reg


Let us know if you test this one. While I certainly interested in reducing the power footprint of this unit, I would be concerned that moving to a slower spindal speed (7200 to 5400 rpms) could impact recording and viewing of the HD data.
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post #348 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

I stuck the instructions in the first post under FAQ #8.

Thanks! We should also include a list of the validated drives (model #'s, sizes, etc.) as the forum members tackle this area.
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post #349 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 08:59 AM
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Will someone try to set a manual timer, Mon-Fri, 2hour block in the middle of the day.

See if you get the same error I posted #318


I also had an timer fail to record and the info on it was failed to start I don't have the exact words of the error because I restored factory defaults to try to rectify the first problem.


Also, deleted timers don't need to be listed in the 'Daily Schedule' because they were deleted.
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post #350 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 09:00 AM
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Does anyone know what those "substitute zipcodes" for TVGOS setup do with this unit? I get no TVGOS data when I set my zipcode for my "real" location (22801) or the manual's "substitute location" (00173) out here in the boondocks. However, I do get a strong signal from Richmond's distant WTVR-DT, which is supposed to be broadcasting that data.

Do I need to enter a Richmond zipcode or the Richmond substitute (00061) to get TVGOS data?

And, does the menu show anything right away if TVGOS is going to be possible? Or do you just wait and see if the TV Guide logo eventually shows up?
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post #351 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 09:17 AM
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bfdtv:
Thank you very much for your time.
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post #352 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepyeddie View Post

I also have a KDS-60A3000. This is the definitive description I was looking for. I will order now without reading more.

Get ready to be blown out of the water of course you will have to make video adjustments to that HDMI Input on the Sony set since each can be different from the other input.

Before I got the DVR box I figured I would only use it for the Guide and recorded programs only, and just the internal tuner most of the time but when I saw how much better the PQ was compared to the internal tuner I am going to use the box all the time.

I am using the Tartan 24 AWG HDMI cable http://www.tartancable.com/ it was a good price and believe me it is a good quality cable dont let the price fool you.

Also using the Tartan Optical cable http://www.tartancable.com/toslink/index.htm from the Box to the receiver (unless your receiver has HDMI switching no need for this).
Again surprisingly good quality cable at great price.
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post #353 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

Something similar happened to mine the first day while I was
going through a menu.
I thought maybe I just hit buttons too fast on the remote.
The good news is, it hasn't done it again since.
Perhaps the fw upgrade addresses this quirk (I won't be updating
the fw until its on the web for use with USB).

Edit: The more I use this machine the more I love it.

I've had several instances of my unit freezing up and having to power-cycle it to get it responsive again. And, yes, I have run the firmware update to F202.
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post #354 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubaloth View Post

Sorry this is probably a dumb question (I probably know the answer from reading between the lines)

I thought this was an Digital Converter box so the signal coming out of it was in Analog?

But it sounds like that the signal can be either Analog or Digital (or even HDMI)?

So this mean it works with current HDTV's?
I also heard you need a G-Link or G-Wire, do I really need that, what is it used for? To connect a VCR?

Thanks

Anybody using this in UTAH?

I'm in Orem and reception is nearly perfect with attic attenna (+95% signal strength showing on screen).
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post #355 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isnms View Post

Will someone try to set a manual timer, Mon-Fri, 2hour block in the middle of the day.

See if you get the same error I posted #318


I also had an timer fail to record and the info on it was failed to start I don't have the exact words of the error because I restored factory defaults to try to rectify the first problem.


Also, deleted timers don't need to be listed in the 'Daily Schedule' because they were deleted.

Did you get the error while entering the program info, or when it tried to record?
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post #356 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 09:43 AM
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While manually entering the timer
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post #357 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 09:58 AM
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Thanks to all working on the HD upgrade, good work.

I hope my box shows up today.

Thanks again

Jay
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post #358 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isnms View Post

While manually entering the timer

I just set up a 1 hour manual program for Mon-Fri at 8:00 AM with no problems.
I'll try changing it to 2 hours and report that by editing this post.

Edit:
Changed the timer to 2 hours with no errors. Hopefully your problem was a one time thing.
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post #359 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildwillie6 View Post

Does anyone know what those "substitute zipcodes" for TVGOS setup do with this unit? I get no TVGOS data when I set my zipcode for my "real" location (22801) or the manual's "substitute location" (00173) out here in the boondocks. However, I do get a strong signal from Richmond's distant WTVR-DT, which is supposed to be broadcasting that data.

Do I need to enter a Richmond zipcode or the Richmond substitute (00061) to get TVGOS data?

And, does the menu show anything right away if TVGOS is going to be possible? Or do you just wait and see if the TV Guide logo eventually shows up?

I'm in southern Pennsylvania, but watch and record Baltimore Tv stations.
When I set mine up I used a Baltimore zipcode,not my own.
The TV Guide logo didn't showup till the next morning and all seven days of programing were filled in.
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post #360 of 19443 Old 12-26-2008, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by seattletwodogs View Post

bfdtv:
Thank you very much for your time.

+1
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