The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 07:05 AM
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I have 52" sharp LCD, OTA picture is the same as far as my 54YO eyes can tell.

Hard drive is still spinning this morning when the unit is off. Not a noisy as the Replay but the roughness of the sound coming from it is of concern.

Skip forward and skip backward did cause some fragmenting last night on NBC, I saw it really!

I have a 2 bay Channel Master 30 miles from antenna in Sacramento. Signal strength meter on Dish box says 95%, antenna strength on Sharp tv says 83%. Who is telling the truth?

Channel change time isn't as quick as OTa on the Sharp TV but what the heck, I retired six months ago.
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post #62 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 07:14 AM
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Quote:


Signal strength meter on Dish box says 95%, antenna strength on Sharp tv says 83%. Who is telling the truth?

Neither. That usually only shows BER, not signal strength.
On some sets (tuners), there are two scales (similar to what some satellite receivers have). One for Strength and the other for Quality.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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post #63 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Neither. That usually only shows BER, not signal strength.
On some sets (tuners), there are two scales (similar to what some satellite receivers have). One for Strength and the other for Quality.

BER = Bit Error Rate?
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post #64 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 07:30 AM
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Yep.

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
The Internet is no place for streaming video.
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post #65 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 08:05 AM
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I'm just curious if any of you early adopters have your DVR Pal hooked up to a surround sound system and what your observations are with different sound modes. i.e. 2.0 vs. 5.1.

Jeff

Thanks to DTV I cut the cable and now I'm saving $1200 a year!
Well make that $1100 since I bought the Tivo.
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post #66 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 08:08 AM
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TVGOS only works if you have another product that has it built-in and you connect the two with a cable???

Bill
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post #67 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willscary View Post

TVGOS only works if you have another product that has it built-in and you connect the two with a cable???

Bill

No it's built in to the DVR.
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post #68 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 08:14 AM
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when will you tube have videos of this. I just saw a review back when it was the tr-50 and they said the Ethernet port is for IP content they will be offering later in the year. Also said echostar will be having their own dvr along with dish and offer IP content just like dish does now.
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post #69 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Who will be first with all the pics?

And who will post pics of the inside?

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post #70 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwnt1 View Post

I have 52" sharp LCD, OTA picture is the same as far as my 54YO eyes can tell.

Hard drive is still spinning this morning when the unit is off. Not a noisy as the Replay but the roughness of the sound coming from it is of concern.

Skip forward and skip backward did cause some fragmenting last night on NBC, I saw it really!

I have a 2 bay Channel Master 30 miles from antenna in Sacramento. Signal strength meter on Dish box says 95%, antenna strength on Sharp tv says 83%. Who is telling the truth?

Channel change time isn't as quick as OTa on the Sharp TV but what the heck, I retired six months ago.

Are you using a splitter? Splitters commonly have one output tap that is less of a dB drop then the other, so that might account for it.
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post #71 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 08:56 AM
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I got mine yesterday, have not had a chance to plug it in yet. There is a SmartCard similar to that in my Dish PVR in the front. Any idea what that's for, since this is not a subscription device?
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post #72 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navychop View Post

And who will post pics of the inside?

second that, pop open the box and takes some pics. I am assuming broadcom chipset, maybe 7401 or 7405.
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post #73 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 08:59 AM
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Just curious if there is any indication in the menus or setup areas for a future option to connect an external HD to the USB tap.
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post #74 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willscary View Post

Let's say that you want to watch a show on virtual channel 12.1. Will the channel change to 12.1 if you simply punch 12 into the remote, or do you need to punch 01201 to get the channel to change?

My Samsungs will change just by punching "5" or "11" or "32". They will change to the first virtual channel with those numbers. This is VERY convenient.

Bill

Yes, all you have to do is enter "12" and wait a few seconds and it tunes to 12-01.
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post #75 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 09:17 AM
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Anyone tried to open the case yet? One obvious case screw, one likely suspect on the back, a couple of tabs- but something else is holding it shut? Glue?

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post #76 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

So does the Sony, but anything over 1/2 a second is really slow. I'm used to my HTPC and my parents AT&T Box, that is the kind of speed I was hoping for. Heck, even the speed of my 2 year old HDTV (which is under 1 second) would be fine. (My Zenith CEBC box is almost instant, so a 2 second channel change (or on par with the Sony) would be disappointing seeing how the technology is nearly 4 years newer)

It is not really fair to compare the tuning 'speed' of an IPTV service like AT&T's 5-6Mbps U-Verse service to cable or off-air. They are completely different technologies.

There are inherent delays involved when demodulating a 8PSK, QAM, or VSB signal that do not apply to an IPTV service like U-Verse. Once that signal is demodulated, the bitstream must be saved to disk. Then that bitstream must be read from the disk and decoded by the Broadcom CPU. That's how you get the ability to pause, instant replay, etc.

With current technology, a 1.5-2.5 second delay is standard when it comes to standalone DVRs for cable, off-air, and satellite. Of course, if you record everything you watch, tuning speed becomes irrelevant.
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post #77 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by navychop View Post

Anyone tried to open the case yet? One obvious case screw, one likely suspect on the back, a couple of tabs- but something else is holding it shut? Glue?

That will void the warranty, won't it?

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post #78 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 09:41 AM
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I should've figured this thread was going to be a big, hyperactive flurry of disjointed posts, and harder to follow than the old one. At least more than half the questions in the other one get replies.
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post #79 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

I should've figured this thread was going to be a big, hyperactive flurry of disjointed posts, and harder to follow than the old one. At least more than half the questions in the other one get replies.

Yeah, we're not exactly getting many first impressions, let alone reviews, are we?
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post #80 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 09:43 AM
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After leaving the unit off overnight, the guide now shows the "TV Guide" logo and has a about a week of program data. The "no information available" for several channels has gone away, and more complete descriptions, etc. are available. It has pretty much the same information as the Comcast DVR now, including some incorrect information for the local PBS channel, so it is probaby the same source.

I'm still locking channels that I could not before (using an OnAir GT USB receiver, that supposedly used an LG 4th-gen tuner). It isn't easy right now to switch back and forth to compare reception (I have to physically swap the cable), but maybe I'll do a comparison eventually. My display doesn't have a built-in tuner.

I'm about 57 miles from the transmitters, using a Winegard CP-7080 (now called HD-7080) VHF/UHF combo antenna on the roof, no pre-amp, no splitters.

One slight "gripe" is that the HDMI doesn't handshake cleanly with my display unless I turn the Pal on before the monitor (or cycle the input on the monitor after the Pal is on). I'd like to just leave the Pal on (depending on power consumption), but I think there was some doubt that the guide would update properly if I do that. If there are discrete On/Off remote codes I can use a macro in my remote instead, but the supplied remote has only the single power button.

Oh, you can just press "4" and "enter" and it will take you to 4-1.

The timers aren't as sophisticated as Comcast's, as expected. I don't think there is anything like a "series" recording where it will find episodes even if the schedule changes.

Some have asked about picture quality. I'm not sure, when using HDMI, why there would be variability here unless the box decodes something incorrectly (gets an algorithm wrong). But it did seem to be slightly low in contrast and saturation, and slightly higher in black level, than the Comcast box. These differences were easy to fix in the display.

I like the box, and really like the DTV reception I'm getting!

Mark
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post #81 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 09:50 AM
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Some initial observations (oh and mine came with batteries for the remote, one RF cable and one audo/composite cable):

The PQ looks good on my 60" Sony KDS-60A2020 HDTV, the same as using Sony's built in Tuner. I am using a 16ft HDMI cable. Also, the audio in the HDMI cable does not seam to pass through from the DTVPal to the Sony's digital output that I have connected to my receiver, so I had to find an optical cable to connect to the DTVPal. This is probably an issue with the Sony (I was hoping to not have to use a separate cable, but no biggie).

The tuner sensitivity is different than the Sony. The DTVPal was able to see two channels that the Sony could not see, though the signal of one was not enough to actually put up a picture. The Sony can see 2 channels that the DTVPal could not see (the Sony only sees channels strong enough to get a picture). I should note that I have not yet got my antenna mounted (Antennas Direct Clearstream C4 for those interested) and it's in the living room at the window (facing north) temporarily.

After and hour of so playing, there was no TVGOS guide data yet. Many channels had data until about 11:00 pm, and two channels (Fox & CW) had about 24 hours of data. I have an interesting situation, I am close to two DMAs (Harrisburg, PA and Baltimore MD), though I am technically in the Harrisburg DMA (Dish gives me these locals). I pick up all of the Baltimore channels and only a few Harrisburg (mostly with the Sony, only one with the DTVPal). According to RabbitEars.com TVGOS page, the Harrisburg CBS does not carry TVGOS, but I can't get it at the moment anyway. The Baltimore CBS does. I put in my actual Zip code, but I'm not sure that will be the right one to make it work - may need to enter a Baltimore zip.

The DTVPal allows manual timers to be entered, so this is good enough for me - I was a heavy VCR user before I got my Dish DVRs, so manual programming is acceptable for me.

I had one problem with the remote, which was interfering with my Dish 625 DVR in the same room, both were set to Remote address 1. I changed the 625 to another address, but the 625 still was picking up commands from the DTVPal remote. There was no procedure in the DTVPal manual for changing the remote address, but the procedure is the same as for the other Dish receivers. Once I changed the DTVPal's remote address, there was no more conflicts.

On oddity I noticed is that the guide will not come up if you are not watching live TV (or a recording) like if you paused live TV or rewound live TV. It just ignores the button, no message.
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post #82 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pabeader View Post

or maybe refrain from PQ comments at all...

DTVPal HD image quality comments are fair game for discussion in this topic.

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post #83 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdgomoney View Post

I am a little dissatisfied with the pq of 720p broadcasts through my plasma tv's built-in tuner, and was hoping the pal dvr would improve the pq.

Highly unlikely, unless your set has a technical issue. Have you checked the display forum, for other's experiences with your set?

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post #84 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

So does the Sony, but anything over 1/2 a second is really slow. I'm used to my HTPC and my parents AT&T Box, that is the kind of speed I was hoping for. Heck, even the speed of my 2 year old HDTV (which is under 1 second) would be fine. (My Zenith CEBC box is almost instant, so a 2 second channel change (or on par with the Sony) would be disappointing seeing how the technology is nearly 4 years newer)

AT&T U-verse is IPTV, and one of its advantages is very quick channel changing.

As for ATSC channel changing time, it's still a work in progress. Newer sets/tuners are usually quicker, so it would be disappointing to have the DTVPal be relatively slow.

Due to the newness of the unit and user experience, let's wait to see how this issue falls out. It could well be TVGOS or PSIP related issue, or any number of others.

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post #85 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MakoShark View Post

I'm just curious if any of you early adopters have your DVR Pal hooked up to a surround sound system and what your observations are with different sound modes. i.e. 2.0 vs. 5.1.

Unless there is a major design flaw, which is very unlikely for Dolby Digital audio, the DTVPal should be exactly like other Digital TV tuners; it will pass what ever the local station sends.

The DTVPal has a digital audio output option for PCM, in addition to DD. This can be helpful when a station doesn't have advanced DD encoding hardware. In PCM mode you can use matrix surround decoding, like ProLogic II, Circle Surround, etc., as opposed to being confined to DD in two channel mode.

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post #86 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

I should've figured this thread was going to be a big, hyperactive flurry of disjointed posts, and harder to follow than the old one. At least more than half the questions in the other one get replies.

It's a little early to expect much more. Give it some time, so a few experienced HD users get their hands on one.

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post #87 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by FRANK43 View Post

Thanks Ken for starting a new thread. Probably should have called it "owners" so people would listen to you and confine answers to how the unit is actually working.

I agree. Can we change the thread title please?
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post #88 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolim2873 View Post

The DTVPal allows manual timers to be entered, so this is good enough for me - I was a heavy VCR user before I got my Dish DVRs, so manual programming is acceptable for me.

I had one problem with the remote, which was interfering with my Dish 625 DVR in the same room, both were set to Remote address 1. I changed the 625 to another address, but the 625 still was picking up commands from the DTVPal remote. There was no procedure in the DTVPal manual for changing the remote address, but the procedure is the same as for the other Dish receivers. Once I changed the DTVPal's remote address, there was no more conflicts.

Do you know how many timers you can set?

What is the process for changing the DVR address in case we need to?
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post #89 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

Unless there is a major design flaw, which is very unlikely for Dolby Digital audio, the DTVPal should be exactly like other Digital TV tuners; it will pass what ever the local station sends.

No flaw observed--I have my audio receiver connected via the Pal's optical output, and my receiver decodes 5.1, 2.0 or whatever the station is sending.

Mark
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post #90 of 18255 Old 12-23-2008, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isnms View Post

• Do you know how many timers you can set?

Oodles - more than 10, probably close to 50 (or more). However - it is not name based. Even off the EPG, it's channel, starttime, duration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isnms View Post

• What is the process for changing the DVR address in case we need to?

Put the DTVPAL DVR on the screen where the address is displayed. Press the PAL button on the remote until all lights are flashing, enter a 2 digit number from 01-15, "#", Record.

I would suggest leaving the PAL DVR on address 1, however, and change your other conflicting devices.

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

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