The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by wanab View Post

Hi out there. I have the Sony DHG-HDD500. This has worked great for me the last coupel of years. My only regret is NOT having two tuners in it. I hate it when I want to record a show and cannot watch another at the same time. It's either one or the other. I only have OTA Green Bay,WI stations here. The TVGuide works great. Is this new DTVPal really that great for watching a show and recording another at the sametime ? Is the picture quality any better than my Sony? I'm running HDMI from Sony to Mits projector to my 92" Firehawk screen. or should I keep what i have...

I have both, same picture quality way better tuners on the DTVPal (4 years of technology has improved the tuners a lot). Watching one while recording another works, or recording two while watching a third on my TV's tuner also works. I have had to turn it off and back on if a guide update comes in while I am watching a recording, it interrupts playback for about 1 minute when it happens (I have to get back to the recording and hit resume). Hopefully the next firmware update solves it.
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post #992 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 12:28 PM
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So far no more reboots, but I haven't used it that much today yet.

While the reboot saga continues, another question: Given everything that has been discussed here, I have some doubt as to whether anyone's box is actually getting TV Guide OS, even if the logo appears. Here's what is raising doubts for me:

1. I do have the logo now
2. A number of channels do not have guide information beyond 24 hours, including all but one of the local PBS stations, and including the main ABC affiliate. Fox, CBS, NBC, one of the PBS stations (not the main one), and a few of the independents have info out to 1 week; the rest don't.
3. The section in pages 33-40 of the user manual would seem to make no sense if the DTVPal box itself includes the ability to receive and use TVGOS data. They seem to be telling you that you need another device with TVGOS capability, and can supply the data from that unit to your DTVPal DVR if you want.

Surely TV Guide has more info available than my DTVPal Guide is displaying?

Perhaps it is only getting PSIP data, even with the logo showing?
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post #993 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 12:31 PM
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If the unit is not returnable what incentive to they have to correct the lockup issues? I'm in the 2nd batch and if they haven't fixed the problem by then I'll be filing a dispute with my CC company if they won't accept returns.

I can just see how the "repair process" may go:
1: Have problem, ship unit to them.
2: They claim they can't duplicate problem and send it back to you.
3: You now have no use of your unit for 2 weeks, have paid shipping and it still isn't fixed.

In light of all the problems everybody is having I might just cancel my order and build a HTPC. Has anybody else had any luck getting CC charges refunded from canceled orders w/o going through your CC company?
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post #994 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Albrecht View Post

So far no more reboots, but I haven't used it that much today yet.

While the reboot saga continues, another question: Given everything that has been discussed here, I have some doubt as to whether anyone's box is actually getting TV Guide OS, even if the logo appears. Here's what is raising doubts for me:

1. I do have the logo now
2. A number of channels do not have guide information beyond 24 hours, including all but one of the local PBS stations, and including the main ABC affiliate. Fox, CBS, NBC, one of the PBS stations (not the main one), and a few of the independents have info out to 1 week; the rest don't.
3. The section in pages 33-40 of the user manual would seem to make no sense if the DTVPal box itself includes the ability to receive and use TVGOS data. They seem to be telling you that you need another device with TVGOS capability, and can supply the data from that unit to your DTVPal DVR if you want.

Surely TV Guide has more info available than my DTVPal Guide is displaying?

Perhaps it is only getting PSIP data, even with the logo showing?

It can use a mix of data. The NBC channel in my area doesn't have any TVGOS data (only 12 hours of PSIP). I have contacted the station that sends out the digital TVGOS information to see who to contact to get this corrected. (Luckily, NBC has nothing but trash on their network). All of my other channels have 7 days of guides as expected.

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.

My Little Theater
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post #995 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffmplsmn View Post

Receiver R188005XXXX-XX
Firmware F202TALD-N
Boot strap 1011TALD
Processor ID 29347107

Program guide update enabled 1:00AM
Real zip code entered.
Set to my real time zone.
I have TVGOS
Ethernet only connected to do the software update
Video memory (VRAM) test is OK.
HD PASS or NOT RUN with 0 error count.
No USB device
Power cycle count is 39
Exceptions count is 0

I have now disabled the updates, removed my zip code, reset the power cycle count, and will thoroughly test the box with these new settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffmplsmn View Post

I give up. I had 8 power cycles overnight. A movie I was recording is in 4 parts. I'm going to call the number on page 48 of the manual and try to exchange the unit.

jeffmplsmn,

Thanks for posting your units ID STRING(s), doing makes your posts:

A: Carry much more "weight" with the manufacturer. (Hard for mfg to say there is NO problem.. that the problems are isolated occurrences affecting only a "small" number of customers.)
B: Helps establish a PATTERN- again to prove end-users are being negatively affected.
C: Is of use to tech support, those responsible for coming up with a "fix". The "fix" for example may turn out to be "HARDWARE-RELATED"
(EG: Bad run of out of spec components from one of their suppliers- Won't be the first time...)
D: Helps those customers dealing with the mfg / or say those customers trying to get a refund thru their credit card company...

In a nutshell to those still refusing to post id strings:

Which thread carries more weight with a manufacturer.
EG= makes them look bad, thereby forcing them to "fix" reported problems in a timely manner:

Thread A: In which you have hundreds, or thousands of CUSTOMERS posting their problematic units serial number range, production date, purchase date, factory batch lots number, etc..

OR

Thread B: In which you have the same number of posts- but no-one is posting any info that can be validated, or is usable to establish what serial number ranges that are being affected?

.
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post #996 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Servicetech571 View Post

If the unit is not returnable what incentive to they have to correct the lockup issues? I'm in the 2nd batch and if they haven't fixed the problem by then I'll be filing a dispute with my CC company if they won't accept returns.

I can just see how the "repair process" may go:
1: Have problem, ship unit to them.
2: They claim they can't duplicate problem and send it back to you.
3: You now have no use of your unit for 2 weeks, have paid shipping and it still isn't fixed.

In light of all the problems everybody is having I might just cancel my order and build a HTPC. Has anybody else had any luck getting CC charges refunded from canceled orders w/o going through your CC company?


Sorry, but you cannot cancel your order. At least for preorders.
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post #997 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 01:34 PM
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My unit seems to be multi tasking challenge. I can totally rely on it to record one show to view later. I have recorded 8 hours of football straight without a hiccup. If I ask it to record two shows at once, then its 50/50 that I will get a reboot. If I watch a recorded show while recording another then a reboot will certainly happen.

I will give them until early Feb to find a firmware fix. Otherwise, I will be asking for a replacement unit then.

The people without the reboot problem must be so happy with the purchase.

Anyone swap to a bigger hard drive have this problem?
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post #998 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Albrecht View Post

While the reboot saga continues, another question: Given everything that has been discussed here, I have some doubt as to whether anyone's box is actually getting TV Guide OS, even if the logo appears. Here's what is raising doubts for me:

1. I do have the logo now
2. A number of channels do not have guide information beyond 24 hours, including all but one of the local PBS stations, and including the main ABC affiliate. Fox, CBS, NBC, one of the PBS stations (not the main one), and a few of the independents have info out to 1 week; the rest don't.
3. The section in pages 33-40 of the user manual would seem to make no sense if the DTVPal box itself includes the ability to receive and use TVGOS data. They seem to be telling you that you need another device with TVGOS capability, and can supply the data from that unit to your DTVPal DVR if you want.

Surely TV Guide has more info available than my DTVPal Guide is displaying?

Perhaps it is only getting PSIP data, even with the logo showing?

It can use a mix of data. The NBC channel in my area doesn't have any TVGOS data (only 12 hours of PSIP). I have contacted the station that sends out the digital TVGOS information to see who to contact to get this corrected. (Luckily, NBC has nothing but trash on their network). All of my other channels have 7 days of guides as expected.

Why would the TV Guide info be incomplete? Shouldn't the data be coming from TV Guide, as opposed to the station that happens to be transmitting the data?

Since TV Guide has all the info available for its print editions, I would have expected that they would supply complete info if they were going to bother at all.

I don't have any experience with TVGOS with any other devices. Perhaps someone can comment regarding the completeness of TVGOS data when viewed on devices that are known to be reading the data?
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post #999 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Albrecht View Post

Why would the TV Guide info be incomplete? Shouldn't the data be coming from TV Guide, as opposed to the station that happens to be transmitting the data?

Did you follow the instructions in the first post for TVGuide?

TVGuide offers 8-days of program information for the big four (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX) in every market where it is available. If you see a TVGuide logo, and aren't getting that, then either you did not properly setup your DTVPal DVR, or your CBS affiliate has some sort of configuration error on their end.

Edit: Apparently, this is not always the case. At this time, it looks like program information delivered via digital TVGOS is not always comparable to what was delivered with analog TVGOS. At least two users in two different TVGOS markets are missing program information for 1-2 of the "big 4" networks with the DTVPal DVR.
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post #1000 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Albrecht View Post

Why would the TV Guide info be incomplete? Shouldn't the data be coming from TV Guide, as opposed to the station that happens to be transmitting the data?

Since TV Guide has all the info available for its print editions, I would have expected that they would supply complete info if they were going to bother at all.

I don't have any experience with TVGOS with any other devices. Perhaps someone can comment regarding the completeness of TVGOS data when viewed on devices that are known to be reading the data?

My 2 TVGOS devices have always had complete data for a week on the broadcast stations, except when something goes blooey, in which case I have NO data for a specific DAY (for ANY channel)

OTA only. For signal strength at your location: FCC DTV reception map
TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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post #1001 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Did you follow the instructions in the first post for TVGuide?

TVGuide offers 8-days of program information for the big four (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX) in every market where it is available. If you see a TVGuide logo, and aren't getting that, then either you did not properly setup your DTVPal DVR, or your CBS affiliate has some sort of configuration error on their end.

I think it would mean that Gemstar has some kind of messup, since they supply the TVGOS data stream directly to their own equipment installed at the broadcast station.

OTA only. For signal strength at your location: FCC DTV reception map
TVGOS data: Sony 250 from 5.1?, LG3410a from my DTVPal setup here, not any more.

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post #1002 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Did you follow the instructions in the first post for TVGuide?

TVGuide offers 8-days of program information for the big four (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX) in every market where it is available. If you see a TVGuide logo, and aren't getting that, then either you did not properly setup your DTVPal DVR, or your CBS affiliate has some sort of configuration error on their end.

My analog TVGOS device receives all of the listings, the DTVPal DVR digital only TVGOS device receives all but NBC listings. (and out of area ABC Listings which appear on my analog device). I have contact my CBS station and am waiting to hear back. I might email the engineer I had contacted several months back directly if I don't hear anything soon.

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.

My Little Theater
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post #1003 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 03:23 PM
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Hey i have a newbie question for you. I just bought a new Panasonic HDTV today. I hooked up the DVTPAL DVR to it with an HDMI cable. In the HDTV menu I selected 720p which my TV is and 16:9 aspect ratio and hit ok. It takes the DVR 10 or more seconds to change a channel. My hook up is an antenna in to the DVR, an HDMI to my HDMI 1 input and an analog stereo output from my DVR to my amp (i like prologic II). I can't deal with 10 second channel changes. Any idea?
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post #1004 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhMyTVC15 View Post

Hey i have a newbie question for you. I just bought a new Panasonic HDTV today. I hooked up the DVTPAL DVR to it with an HDMI cable. In the HDTV menu I selected 720p which my TV is and 16:9 aspect ratio and hit ok. It takes the DVR 10 or more seconds to change a channel. My hook up is an antenna in to the DVR, an HDMI to my HDMI 1 input and an analog stereo output from my DVR to my amp (i like prologic II). I can't deal with 10 second channel changes. Any idea?

What is the signal strength on those channels? I've only noticed slow changes when the strength was less then 60% (while it tries to lock a signal)

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.

My Little Theater
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post #1005 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 03:44 PM
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Also, are you changing channels with the channel up & channel down buttons, or with the number keys?
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post #1006 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

What is the signal strength on those channels? I've only noticed slow changes when the strength was less then 60% (while it tries to lock a signal)

Well when i had it hooked up to my analog Tv using composite outs it took less than 2 seconds. Now through HDMI it takes a good 10 seconds. Signal is fine 80+. Is this a handshaking issue? Maybe i'll try component and see what i get. Can i use normal composite cables for component? I've never used componant before.
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post #1007 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by OhMyTVC15 View Post

Can i use normal composite cables for component? I've never used componant before.

Yes, I've seen it done many times in a pinch Yellow=Green, White=Blue. Not optimum but it will work.
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post #1008 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 03:56 PM
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Receiver R188005XXXX-XX
Firmware F202TALD-N
Boot strap 1011TALD
Processor ID 29237057


I have just done a taxing exercise:

I set two recordings at the same time, play off game and something else. While those were recording I replayed a previous recording, stopping starting pausing skipping. Paused that and switched to the current recording of the game, stopping starting pausing skipping. Paused that and switched back to my previous recording, rinsed and repeated. I am now back to viewing the game, don't tell me what happens, the second recording ended.

Result: No lockup, No reboot.

Also, I don't have TVGOS. PSIP only.
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post #1009 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Servicetech571 View Post

Yes, I've seen it done many times in a pinch Yellow=Green, White=Blue. Not optimum but it will work.

Thx...well something is messed up with it because now it does it on all video outs, componant, composite and HDMI....i'm going to do a system reset and see where that gets me.
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post #1010 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 04:08 PM
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Ok...well that was weird.....it froze up on me so i unplugged the unit and waited a couple of minutes and turned the thing back on. HDMI only this time. All is fine and back to normal. Maybe it doesn't like u plugging things in while it;s turned on. Finicky thing. Anyway it's working as normal now. Thx.
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post #1011 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 04:14 PM
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The manual says to be sure it's off before plugging in things.
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post #1012 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 04:25 PM
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Manuals always say that.

I never do.
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post #1013 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanab View Post

Hi out there. I have the Sony DHG-HDD500. This has worked great for me the last couple of years. My only regret is NOT having two tuners in it. I hate it when I want to record a show and cannot watch another at the same time. It's either one or the other. I only have OTA Green Bay,WI stations here. The TVGuide works great. Is this new DTVPal really that great for watching a show and recording another at the sametime ? Is the picture quality any better than my Sony? I'm running HDMI from Sony to Mits projector to my 92" Firehawk screen. or should I keep what i have...

As a previous Dual Sony DVR 250 owner I say YES!
I bought one PAL DVR to check it out then quickly after sold both of my Sonys and ordered another PAL DVR.
Don't get me wrong the Sony was wayyyy more polished in the looks of the interface and visual implementation of TVGOS but TWO tuners, better tuners, much quicker response, and I sold each of my Sony 250 DVRs for over $375.00.
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post #1014 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhMyTVC15 View Post

Ok...well that was weird.....it froze up on me so i unplugged the unit and waited a couple of minutes and turned the thing back on. HDMI only this time. All is fine and back to normal. Maybe it doesn't like u plugging things in while it;s turned on. Finicky thing. Anyway it's working as normal now. Thx.

I discovered this as well - don't have both HDMI and component at the same time on the same TV. It might work OK if you're going to two different displays - I don't have any way to test that.

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Being A Beacon of Knowledge in the darkness of FUD
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post #1015 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avnstf View Post

My 2 TVGOS devices have always had complete data for a week on the broadcast stations, except when something goes blooey, in which case I have NO data for a specific DAY (for ANY channel)


My Sony HDD250 and Sharp 37 inch HDTV always have 8 days of TVGOS data for OTA and cable channels.
The Sony has 2 RF inputs and the Sharp has 3. The Sharp has separate tuners for NTSC, ATSC and cable making for painless switching between them (from the remote). Both have cable card slots but no cards installed.

The TVGOS seamlessly integrates analog, digital and cable data in the listings and shows the channels as e.g ch 8, ch 8 cable, ch 8.1 ant and ch 8.1 cable where applicable.
This is how TVGOS is supposed to work.

Both units receive analog TVGOS data, currently from CBS ch 8 in San Diego.

While I would like to use a DTVPal DVR any purchase will be on hold until the reboot and TVGOS problems are eliminated.

BTW the G52LF Vizio HDTV shows PSIP data for some but not all local DTV stations. Those that transmit PSIP show from 2 to 7 days depending on the station. I would hope but do not really expect that all stations will supply a week's worth of PSIP program data after the Feb changeover. The many glitches reported on hdtv.forsandiego.com do not inspire confidence in the capability or devotion of some local broadcast engineers.
One exception, Gary Stillwell of XETV is great and always on top of any problems. He also regularly reports on hdtv.forsandiego.com.

Certified HDTV junkie and AVS addict
U.S. Army FA WWII
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post #1016 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 07:00 PM
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Quote:


Originally Posted by bfdtv

TVGuide offers 8-days of program information for the big four (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX) in every market where it is available. If you see a TVGuide logo, and aren't getting that, then either you did not properly setup your DTVPal DVR, or your CBS affiliate has some sort of configuration error on their end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avnstf View Post

I think it would mean that Gemstar has some kind of messup, since they supply the TVGOS data stream directly to their own equipment installed at the broadcast station.

With the TVGuide logo displayed, I continue to see less than 12 hours of data for three of the five stations here in Rochester and a week's worth of data for only two of five. I spoke with an engineer at our CBS affiliate -- one of the stations for which I have only PSIP data, as well as the TVGOS broadcaster -- and:
- he could not have seemed much LESS interested;
- he told me that Macrovision provides the TVGOS box and feeds it the data over the Internet;
- he said that Macrovision calls HIM when there's a problem with their box;
- he disclaimed any responsibility for the operation of the box or the integrity of the data.

I called the 800-number on the support page of the Macrovision website, but the outgoing message on their phone tree system made it clear that their customers are the device manufacturers (like Dish) NOT end consumers, and they really wanted me to call Dish. Which I did. But that seemed pretty useless. I think I'll call Macrovision again this week and try to talk with an engineer ...even if they'd rather I didn't!
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post #1017 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 07:02 PM
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[quote=xmen888;15456701]My unit seems to be multi tasking challenge. I can totally rely on it to record one show to view later. I have recorded 8 hours of football straight without a hiccup. If I ask it to record two shows at once, then its 50/50 that I will get a reboot. If I watch a recorded show while recording another then a reboot will certainly happen.

I will give them until early Feb to find a firmware fix. Otherwise, I will be asking for a replacement unit then.

The people without the reboot problem must be so happy with the purchase.

QUOTE]

I had not had one reboot in 1 1/2 week until tonight, and it was doing about what you describe:
Recording:
Ch 1 - 5:30 - 7:30
Ch 2 - 7 - 9
Ch 1 - 7:30 - 9:30

I tried to go to "My Recordings" and watch the show I was recording on Ch 2 and it wouldn't allow me to view the recording at 8pm. It only gave me the choice of watching Ch 1's earlier recording, or cancel Ch 2's recordings. At 9:02 when it should have finished Ch 2's recordings, it wasn't even there. I then tried to go back and see what was recorded on Ch 1, and it rebooted at 9:05.

Is it possible this is like our old Windows boxes, and just need a reboot ever so often?
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post #1018 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jlkane View Post

I called the 800-number on the support page of the Macrovision website, but the outgoing message on their phone tree system made it clear that there customers are the device manufacturers (like Dish) NOT end consumers, and they really wanted me to call Dish. Which I did. But that seemed pretty useless. I think I'll call Macrovision again this week and try to talk with an engineer ...even if they'd rather I didn't!

It sounds like you have done everything you can. Sounds like TVGuide just isn't providing a week of guide data for all stations in your area, for whatever reason. Hopefully, these are just early growing pains that will be resolved as we approach the February shutoff date.

You might look in the Sony DHG-HDD250/500 thread to see if anyone in your area is getting a full 8 days (today + next 7) on all four networks. That would more clearly establish who is at fault.
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post #1019 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

It sounds like you have done everything you can. Sounds like TVGuide just isn't providing a week of guide data for all stations in your area, for whatever reason. Hopefully, these are just early growing pains that will be resolved as we approach the February shutoff date.

You might look in the Sony DHG-HDD250/500 thread to see if anyone in your area is getting a full 8 days (today + next 7) on all four networks. That would more clearly establish who is at fault.

I've had 2 250s for several years and ALWAYS got Guide data
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post #1020 of 18330 Old 01-04-2009, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

It sounds like you have done everything you can. Sounds like TVGuide just isn't providing a week of guide data for all stations in your area, for whatever reason. Hopefully, these are just early growing pains that will be resolved as we approach the February shutoff date.

You might look in the Sony DHG-HDD250/500 thread to see if anyone in your area is getting a full 8 days (today + next 7) on all four networks. That would more clearly establish who is at fault.

Thanks for the suggestion bfdtv. I searched that thread for "Rochester" but didn't turn up anything useful.

So it goes...
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