The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 426 - AVS Forum
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post #12751 of 18225 Old 05-18-2011, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nopedals View Post

Bingo -- I just figured out how to do a discrete on. Press sys info, and then select.

Since the unit has auto shutoff, don't need a discrete off.

So ... added those two commands to the macro that switches to watch TV.

HUH? English please. What are you saying? What is a discrete on?
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post #12752 of 18225 Old 05-19-2011, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post
HUH? English please. What are you saying? What is a discrete on?
That would be a key or a key sequence that turns the unit on if it's off but keeps it on if it's already on.
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post #12753 of 18225 Old 05-19-2011, 07:24 AM
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For me the unit turns on just when I hit sys info. But using select closes the sys info screen.

When I added in the PAL on my Harmony remote is showed seperate power on and off commands available, but they didn't work. Though I had to add the Pal in as a Dish ViP 622 DVR.
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post #12754 of 18225 Old 05-19-2011, 09:12 AM
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Sorry to be cryptic; let me explain.

The unit sort of stays on all the time, which is good because it wakes up to record programs. There is an option to put it to sleep after a couple of hours, which is good; saves power, but wakes up to record.

I have it set up with other components, and use one remote (the inexpensive sony that does everything -- learns, macros, etc.). The wife and kid whine if everything does not work perfectly by pushing one button; explaining stuff like switching inputs, turning on individual components, etc., would never work. So I have a button on the remote for each component that turns everything on, switches inputs, etc.

The power button on the dvr is a toggle; there are not discrete on and off buttons. So if your macro has power as one of the steps, it will turn the unit off if it is on, and on if it is off, so it could not really be in the macro. So I had to tell the wife and kid to press a second button if the unit was off (which would give them a blank screen).

So ... I was looking for a button or series of buttons that would turn the unit on if it was off, but not do anything of consequence if it was on.

I have a similar faux discrete on for the DVD player (the play button turns it on when it is off), which also has an auto shutoff.

I was cryptic in the message because I had searched all over for a discrete on for the unit, and wanted to leave a brief note on this thread for others looking for the same thing.
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post #12755 of 18225 Old 05-19-2011, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nopedals View Post

Sorry to be cryptic; let me explain.

The unit sort of stays on all the time, which is good because it wakes up to record programs. There is an option to put it to sleep after a couple of hours, which is good; saves power, but wakes up to record.

I have it set up with other components, and use one remote (the inexpensive sony that does everything -- learns, macros, etc.). The wife and kid whine if everything does not work perfectly by pushing one button; explaining stuff like switching inputs, turning on individual components, etc., would never work. So I have a button on the remote for each component that turns everything on, switches inputs, etc.

The power button on the dvr is a toggle; there are not discrete on and off buttons. So if your macro has power as one of the steps, it will turn the unit off if it is on, and on if it is off, so it could not really be in the macro. So I had to tell the wife and kid to press a second button if the unit was off (which would give them a blank screen).

So ... I was looking for a button or series of buttons that would turn the unit on if it was off, but not do anything of consequence if it was on.

I have a similar faux discrete on for the DVD player (the play button turns it on when it is off), which also has an auto shutoff.

I was cryptic in the message because I had searched all over for a discrete on for the unit, and wanted to leave a brief note on this thread for others looking for the same thing.

I share your pain. I've given up trying to get my GF to use anything but the TV;s tuner. She's real smart in so many ways but just cannot seem to get a handle on my AV setup.

Just curious, but does the Sony remote have codes for the DVDPal or did you use Dish Vip DVR codes?

You might also try the forums at http://www.remotecentral.com
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post #12756 of 18225 Old 05-19-2011, 01:05 PM
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It is this one: http://www.remotecentral.com/reviews...610/index.html

I check in at RMC from time to time, but have not lately. A couple of years ago, at least, the sony was the one to have; cheap and does everything. I am sure I have tried at least a dozen programmable remotes over the years, this one has been the hands down winner.

I *think* I selected Dish DVR from the universal list (uses the same codes as the channelmaster IIRC), but I may have learned some or all of the codes from the channelmaster remote.

I have the channel master hooked up to a stereo receiver, and don't go through the TV for volume. So the macro switches the audio input on the receiver, then the video input on the TV, and then turns on the channel master. I actually put a command or two between the sys info and select so that the two commands have a moment or two between them.
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post #12757 of 18225 Old 05-20-2011, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Empiricist View Post

I was hoping others in DC would report a clock skew so that I could confirm that all 3 of my PALs are now magical. Instead, it appears that your PAL is simply cursed. You haven't done anything crazy like record episodes of Supernatural? If you remember, when Charmed went off the air it took almost the entire NTSC spectrum with it.

The first question: What convinced you that a cold reboot was necessary instead of a simple zip code reset, or channel scan, or soft reboot?

Could you give us a timeline of what you tried and when?

It's possible that someone is still fidgeting with the broadcast clock and you picked a bad week to stop cold reboots at 7pm.

It really is all in when one reboots (unplugs -not the set factory defaults option). I rebooted in the AM and time started going off that day. By the next day is was 5 mins slow. Rebooting between the magical 6-7 PM hours, time is correct and has stayed correct (it's now been about a week!). That might explain why one DVR keeps correct time while others might have skewed. It really matters when you plug the darn thing in! (I guess it is possible someone is still playing with the server at ch9-1 and I hit upon a bad time. But it is OK now and I am not touching it! )
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post #12758 of 18225 Old 05-20-2011, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Empiricist View Post

Because of your clock skew several days ago, I'm still wondering if the DC clock is completely fixed or just mostly fixed. What time of day did you delete 9.1 and then add it back? And, was your previous problematic reboot in the morning or some other time of day?

It appears to me that the widespread clock skews may have only occurred in PALs that were acquiring the timestamps between about 1am and 7pm. The time-stamps between 7pm and 1am might have been accurate all along. Because J-D-H originally had his PAL set to update at 1am (and his clock skewed), we can assume there was a problem with the timestamps going forward from 1am. Since my 2 skewed PALs were fixed by 7:10pm zip code resets, I'm guessing they acquired their timestamps for some period afterward.

Mabuttra has said the Sony dvrs check the clock 5 times a day. Maybe the PAL checks 5 times within a window of several hours. When the Austin group selected a time to reset based on accurate time-stamp readouts, they initially acquired an accurate clock. But, it skewed within several hours. Since my PALs never skewed again, it seems reasonable to assume the Pal needs a window of accurate time-stamps to maintain the correct time. The window of accurate time-stamps was sufficient in DC but not in Austin.

With your cold reboot, you may have revealed a time of day when the clock data is still not accurate.

Agreed...as I just mentioned, time of day matters for reboots. I originally had my DVR set to reboot each AM (to fix the time!). This probably just kept in inaccurate. I have been doing OK since my last reboot in the evening and it has been several days. I have all my DC listings (and Balt.) and an accurate clock..I'm crossing my fingers!
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post #12759 of 18225 Old 05-20-2011, 03:54 PM
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I guess old habits are hard to break. I was near a SEARS today. I remember when they had 6 DTVPALS. I remember during the FIRESALES days they still had 6. Then one time I went in and they Salesman told me they sent them back? They are still not at the store I went to. I knew that they would be gone. Had to try lol

Sent back to whom? I always thought they could not send it back to Dish? I wondered if they would send the units to the SEARS OUTLET stores?

Anyone have a clue where ALL the left over SEARS unit went too?
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post #12760 of 18225 Old 05-21-2011, 12:58 PM
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A coworker of mine bought a channel master version and is having issues with the remote. I don't know the whole story, but on off issues, lack of response on other keys, etc. New batteries, etc, etc.

I have 2 Dish units I've never had problems with. I rarely use my remotes since I have 2 Harmonies for my setups (living room/bedroom). He's eventually going to get a Harmony for many other reasons, but I offered to loan him one of my Dish DTVPal remotes Monday to see if that gets his CM unit working properly.

Does anyone here have both types of units, and/or does anyone know if the Dish remotes will work fine with the CM branded unit?

Thanks
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post #12761 of 18225 Old 05-21-2011, 01:43 PM
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YOur co-workers real problem is probably backlighting from his TV (or something related to that). Have him shield the IR target on the DTV pal away from his TV if at all possible.

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

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post #12762 of 18225 Old 05-21-2011, 02:01 PM
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What brand of TV?

Known issues from Post 1 (worked for me....)

Light sensor on some TVs may cause poor / intermittent remote response

A number of newer LCD and plasma TVs feature "light sensor" or "day-night sensor" to adjust the TV's picture depending on ambient light conditions. When enabled, this "light sensor" or "day-night sensor" causes havoc with many STBs and DVRs using IR remotes. Disable this option in your TV settings and remote response should return to normal.
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post #12763 of 18225 Old 05-21-2011, 05:44 PM
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Thanks guys, I had never had a remote issue, and should have gone back and reread the FAQ in the first post (although now I'm intrigued to know if Dish and CM remotes are interchangeable just so we know, lol).

Anyway, I forwarded that light sensor tidbit on to him, and he replied that he did break down and get a new TV when they moved into their new house, so that sensor is likely the issue.
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post #12764 of 18225 Old 05-21-2011, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormentor View Post
Thanks guys, I had never had a remote issue, and should have gone back and reread the FAQ in the first post (although now I'm intrigued to know if Dish and CM remotes are interchangeable just so we know, lol).

Anyway, I forwarded that light sensor tidbit on to him, and he replied that he did break down and get a new TV when they moved into their new house, so that sensor is likely the issue.
Yea it is an old issue on these boards
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post #12765 of 18225 Old 05-22-2011, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormentor View Post

and should have gone back and reread the FAQ in the first post

Anyway, I forwarded that light sensor tidbit on to him

It's hard to remember all the info in post 1 -- I've been "caught" too...

On my Sony, the gray, no signal screen, will also make the remote intermittent. I have to either tune to a working channel / source or get up and place the remote within two inches of the sensor...
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post #12766 of 18225 Old 05-23-2011, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gary-in-dc View Post
Agreed...as I just mentioned, time of day matters for reboots. I originally had my DVR set to reboot each AM (to fix the time!). This probably just kept in inaccurate. I have been doing OK since my last reboot in the evening and it has been several days. I have all my DC listings (and Balt.) and an accurate clock..I'm crossing my fingers!
My fingers have been crossed too, but it seems this wasn't completely effective!

After 13 days of virtually perfect clock accuracy as well as complete TVG advance show data, we began watching a recorded show last night (May 22nd 2011) at around 9:30 PM and found that the clock was almost 5 minutes slow! This show and several others had been recorded a few hours earlier, and we missed the beginning of all of them. I can't say exactly when the clock went awry, but the last time we know the clock was perfect was late last Friday, May 20th 2011. So whatever happened, it was in that 2 day time window.

Shortly after discovering the clock problem, I did a soft-reset via the remote control and the clock became perfect again. As of this morning, the advance TVG show info data has filled in (mostly anyway - still checking).

There have been no noticeable power glitches. However I've had the firmware updates disabled for several weeks now, so I re-enabled this feature last night after the soft-reset. The updates are set to happen each day at 6:30 PM. Now I will wait and watch.

After thinking that CBS a/o TVGOS had fixed their difficulties roughly 2 weeks ago, and thinking our CM-7000PAL was solid again, I'm now back to viewing this whole system as anything but reliable. If any others in the Wash DC area have noticed any clock oddities, I'd appreciate hearing about it. If no one else has seen a problem, I have no idea what caused what I saw.
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post #12767 of 18225 Old 05-23-2011, 10:34 PM
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Is it safe to disconnect my DTV Pal DVR to let it hibernate for the summer? I want to save power, make less heat, and make my DVR live a few months longer when not in used. Is unplugging its power plug safe or is there a specific way to shut it down safely/correctly? I did have a random and rare 15 minutes power outage that didn't cause any harm about 1.5 weeks ago.
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post #12768 of 18225 Old 05-24-2011, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Is it safe to disconnect my DTV Pal DVR to let it hibernate for the summer? I want to save power, make less heat, and make my DVR live a few months longer when not in used. Is unplugging its power plug safe or is there a specific way to shut it down safely/correctly? I did have a random and rare 15 minutes power outage that didn't cause any harm about 1.5 weeks ago.

Make sure it isn't active (no red or green light) and just pull the plug. The manual does warn not to move the unit until the disk spins down.

In my case, I'll be time shifting oldies from the wee hours on ThisTV and MeTV, stuff like 12 O'clock High, Combat, Highway Patrol, and Sea Hunt. I find those shows preferable, even in B&W SD, to most of the prime time network fare scheduled for the summer.
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post #12769 of 18225 Old 05-24-2011, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A J View Post

Make sure it isn't active (no red or green light) and just pull the plug. The manual does warn not to move the unit until the disk spins down.

In my case, I'll be time shifting oldies from the wee hours on ThisTV and MeTV, stuff like 12 O'clock High, Combat, Highway Patrol, and Sea Hunt. I find those shows preferable, even in B&W SD, to most of the prime time network fare scheduled for the summer.

Thanks. I have nothing in my Timer to schedule as well. I cleared it out since I can't disable them manually. As for old TV shows, nothing good to watch. Boo. That's OK. I need a break.
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post #12770 of 18225 Old 05-24-2011, 08:36 AM
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The other day I purchased a Hauppauge HD PVR so I can clear up space on my DVR but keep the programs I'd like to watch over and over. They are mostly movies, mini-series, and documentaries.

The good thing is that I now get to keep all of this great HD content and have free space. The 2012 Olympics are still a ways off but I'm sure to need most all of my space when it does come.

The bad thing is that for the money I spent on the DVR + PVR, I could have purchased a TiVO with lifetime subscription. Granted, the archive/transfer process would not have been as easy i.e. think DRM. But the Tivo does music and NetFlix and the guide runs circles around what I've got now.

Next step: upgrade storage for my home network, then Gbps network, then RAID, then...
No wonder my wife just shakes her head and smiles as I set up the laptop to copy a program
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post #12771 of 18225 Old 05-24-2011, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Is it safe to disconnect my DTV Pal DVR to let it hibernate for the summer? I want to save power, make less heat, and make my DVR live a few months longer when not in used. Is unplugging its power plug safe or is there a specific way to shut it down safely/correctly? I did have a random and rare 15 minutes power outage that didn't cause any harm about 1.5 weeks ago.

I have a spare PAL that I keep unplugged all the time except a couple of time I needed it to record a 3rd program at the same time. I just plugged it back in and it acquired the latest TVGOS guide and it worked perfectly. Just be sure as mentioned to have it OFF (standby no lights on)

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post #12772 of 18225 Old 05-24-2011, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by FRANK43 View Post

I have a spare PAL that I keep unplugged all the time except a couple of time I needed it to record a 3rd program at the same time. I just plugged it back in and it acquired the latest TVGOS guide and it worked perfectly. Just be sure as mentioned to have it OFF (standby no lights on)

Got it. I do use power on/off button on my remote control often.
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post #12773 of 18225 Old 05-24-2011, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-D-H View Post

My fingers have been crossed too, but it seems this wasn't completely effective!

After 13 days of virtually perfect clock accuracy as well as complete TVG advance show data, we began watching a recorded show last night (May 22nd 2011) at around 9:30 PM and found that the clock was almost 5 minutes slow! This show and several others had been recorded a few hours earlier, and we missed the beginning of all of them. I can't say exactly when the clock went awry, but the last time we know the clock was perfect was late last Friday, May 20th 2011. So whatever happened, it was in that 2 day time window.

Shortly after discovering the clock problem, I did a soft-reset via the remote control and the clock became perfect again. As of this morning, the advance TVG show info data has filled in (mostly anyway - still checking).

There have been no noticeable power glitches. However I've had the firmware updates disabled for several weeks now, so I re-enabled this feature last night after the soft-reset. The updates are set to happen each day at 6:30 PM. Now I will wait and watch.

After thinking that CBS a/o TVGOS had fixed their difficulties roughly 2 weeks ago, and thinking our CM-7000PAL was solid again, I'm now back to viewing this whole system as anything but reliable. If any others in the Wash DC area have noticed any clock oddities, I'd appreciate hearing about it. If no one else has seen a problem, I have no idea what caused what I saw.

Now what? I just checked my Pals. There's no evidence of time skews. But I didn't record anything between Friday and Monday. The good news is, if they did skew, my PALs recovered with no help from me. My Friday and Monday shows all are perfect. So, maybe the only people, who would've noticed the skew, are those that recorded this weekend. I wonder if your PAL would have corrected by Monday morning without any action by you.

It appears a clock reset can be forced by:
1. A zip code toggle,
2. Deleting, then adding the TV Guide broadcast station.
3. A reboot (hard or soft),
4. A full channel scan,
5. A factory default reset,
6. Enabling the update.

It also appears that each of these actions will change the time of day at which the PAL searches for time stamps. And it appears that a series of time-stamp checks over a period of several hours determines the final clock adjustment for that day. In other words, if you do any action (#1 through #6), say at 7:30pm, the clock might immediately reset, but everyday thereafter, the clock won't adjust until the PAL finishes collecting it's time-stamps (maybe at 11:30pm).

Anyway, that is the premise I will test the next time, time goes awry.
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post #12774 of 18225 Old 05-24-2011, 05:35 PM
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For about two weeks, my time in DC was accurate. Just yesterday, I noticed that it was slow by about 5 minutes. I did a soft reboot around 10 pm that night and the new time was accurate. Today, the time was slow again by about 3 minutes.
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post #12775 of 18225 Old 05-24-2011, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew S View Post

The bad thing is that for the money I spent on the DVR + PVR, I could have purchased a TiVO with lifetime subscription. Granted, the archive/transfer process would not have been as easy i.e. think DRM. But the Tivo does music and NetFlix and the guide runs circles around what I've got now.

There is no DRM or copy restrictions on OTA programming. It's hard to get simpler than selecting a group of programs you want to transfer to PC, clicking a button to start the process then going to sleep for the night while the TiVo transfer program takes care of the rest.

- kelson h

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post #12776 of 18225 Old 05-25-2011, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Empiricist View Post

Now what? I just checked my Pals. There's no evidence of time skews. But I didn't record anything between Friday and Monday. The good news is, if they did skew, my PALs recovered with no help from me. My Friday and Monday shows all are perfect. So, maybe the only people, who would've noticed the skew, are those that recorded this weekend. I wonder if your PAL would have corrected by Monday morning without any action by you.

It appears a clock reset can be forced by:
1. A zip code toggle,
2. Deleting, then adding the TV Guide broadcast station.
3. A reboot (hard or soft),
4. A full channel scan,
5. A factory default reset,
6. Enabling the update.

It also appears that each of these actions will change the time of day at which the PAL searches for time stamps. And it appears that a series of time-stamp checks over a period of several hours determines the final clock adjustment for that day. In other words, if you do any action (#1 through #6), say at 7:30pm, the clock might immediately reset, but everyday thereafter, the clock won't adjust until the PAL finishes collecting it's time-stamps (maybe at 11:30pm).

Anyway, that is the premise I will test the next time, time goes awry.

What next? I wish I knew. After almost 2 weeks of flawless operation, I just hope that this recent event will prove to be an anomaly and not something which reoccurs every few weeks. We've been tracking the clock since Saturday and it's been perfect every time, so at least that's a good sign.

On the final clock time adjustment, my question now is whether to keep the firmware updates enabled or not. After 2 weeks of being disabled, we enabled it again last Saturday. For now it will stay that way, but I have no idea if this is an optimum plan.
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post #12777 of 18225 Old 05-25-2011, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ETGorm View Post

For about two weeks, my time in DC was accurate. Just yesterday, I noticed that it was slow by about 5 minutes. I did a soft reboot around 10 pm that night and the new time was accurate. Today, the time was slow again by about 3 minutes.

Thanks for reporting this. I feel better knowing that someone else in this area has seen a clock problem (safety in numbers ?).

I just checked and our clock is still keeping accurate time within a second or two. However I'm only randomly checking it. For all I know, if I had a way to record the clock every 5 minutes throughout the day I might find that it drifts around more than it so far appears.

Maybe you should try another soft-reset, but this time do it during the apparently magic window of between 6 and 7 PM. And just in case you have something similar going on to what we had here, check your advance TV Guide show data. If you see today's TVG info but not much more (you should see around 1 week's worth), you may have to employ the factory defaults option as we did a few weeks ago.
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post #12778 of 18225 Old 05-25-2011, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ETGorm View Post

For about two weeks, my time in DC was accurate. Just yesterday, I noticed that it was slow by about 5 minutes. I did a soft reboot around 10 pm that night and the new time was accurate. Today, the time was slow again by about 3 minutes.

THE AUSTIN SHUFFLE
You have duplicated the Austin experiment. In Austin, they used TSReader software to examine the broadcast time-stamps. Most times-tamps were skewed, but a few were dead-on. When they rebooted the Pal to coincide with a perfect time-stamp, the PAL clock corrected. A few hours later, the clock skewed again.

Here's a possible scenario:

You rebooted at 10pm. This forced the PAL to seek the TV Guide clock broadcast which was accurate, so the PAL clock corrected. The Pal checked the broadcast time again at 11pm, 12am, 1am, and 2am. At about 1am the TV Guide program listings started broadcasting which delayed the time-stamps. (In Austin, they assume the stamps were buffered because of a shortage of bandwidth). After the 5 time samples were collected, your PAL made its final clock adjustment (which resulted in a skew of -3 minutes).

GUYS! Let's stop with the 6pm-7pm magic time reset. That worked for a while in Austin and it seems to be ok in DC--for now. No one on this thread reported success restoring their clock at that hour during the original DC time skew crisis. In fact, J-D-H and I reported the opposite: a 6:30pm reset only lessened the skew. My successful clock resets occurred after 7pm and continue to maintain the correct time.

Based on my experiences: Reset your PAL at 7:10pm (maybe 7pm-8pm) by doing one of the following:

1. A zip code toggle,
2. Deleting, then adding the TV Guide broadcast station.
3. A reboot (hard or soft),
4. A full channel scan,

Leave the update disabled. The Pal seems to repeat the time scan during the same period each day (according to the time of your reset) so, if nothing else goes wrong, you'll be ok. (And avoid anything that triggers a clock reset at the wrong time of day).
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post #12779 of 18225 Old 05-25-2011, 03:21 PM
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Thanks guys, I had never had a remote issue, and should have gone back and reread the FAQ in the first post (although now I'm intrigued to know if Dish and CM remotes are interchangeable just so we know, lol).


I have both brands, and the only difference is in the color of the remote plastic as far as I can see. I tried various buttons with the Dish remote and all of them worked to operate the CM unit, so there's your answer. The back of them both say 5.3 IR, whatever that means, and Made in Mexico.
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post #12780 of 18225 Old 05-25-2011, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by J-D-H View Post

There have been no noticeable power glitches. However I've had the firmware updates disabled for several weeks now, so I re-enabled this feature last night after the soft-reset. The updates are set to happen each day at 6:30 PM. Now I will wait and watch.

I'm confused about why there is still talk about this update setting being useful. If a DVR isn't always connected to the internet, there is no way to get anything updated anyway. The TVGOS doesn't need an internet connection and is NOT firmware. There is not going to be a firmware update, so no one needs the updates enabled. Here is the definition of firmware. It has to be something that operates the DVR, and TVGOS is just info, it doesn't control any functions itself.

"Firmware is programming that's written to the read-only memory (ROM) of a computing device. Firmware, which is added at the time of manufacturing, is used to run user programs on the device. "
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