The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 43 - AVS Forum
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post #1261 of 18262 Old 01-08-2009, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Raymond View Post


1) Begin attempting to address the reboot/lockup issues.
2) Technicians trained on the DTVPal DVR.
3) Computerized RMA return/exchange program

1 may happen fairly quickly but don't hold your breath on 2 (that's an oxymoron) and 3 (that's a joke).

For the foreseeable future you can probably resell a unit on eBay for about the sale price.
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post #1262 of 18262 Old 01-08-2009, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Raymond View Post

I wonder how buggy Echostar's new ViP 922 will be and if they will charge a monthly fee for OTA users. Seems like they should get one product right before introducing another.

You will not be able to use Dish satellite DVRs without subscribing to their service to prevent them from being used only for OTA (unless I am mistaken). A minimum level subscription to DishNetwork would be needed. Without it and the OTA tuner is disabled. Only their older receivers with OTA tuners could be used without a subscription for OTA (and none of these are the newer ViP receivers).
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post #1263 of 18262 Old 01-08-2009, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nolim2873 View Post

You will not be able to use Dish satellite DVRs without subscribing to their service to prevent them from being used only for OTA (unless I am mistaken). A minimum level subscription to DishNetwork would be needed. Without it and the OTA tuner is disabled.

That is correct.

Dish Network said today that they would announce a True2Way version of the ViP922 DVR hardware next spring. In simplest terms, True2Way extends current CableCard functionality through the use of a bidirectional receiver and JavaVM to run a Java version of the cable company's own STB and DVR software. This allows True2Way boxes to offer the cable company's interface with direct support for their specific implementations of [QAM] SDV, VOD, PPV, and guide data.

It's not clear what software the True2Way version of the hardware would use. All True2Way boxes demonstrated before today use the cable company's own STB/DVR software. Echostar could do what TiVo plans to do, which is to run the cable company's True2Way software in the background, and run their own UI on top. In theory, the user might only see the cable company's interface for VOD.

Would this True2Way box also have a OTA tuner? That's hard to say. The ViP922 satellite DVR does not include built-in OTA tuners, but from what I understand, OTA tuner modules (sold separately) can be inserted into the rear, much like their new ViP722k satellite DVR. If the cable version were to retain that functionality, that would make it more compelling to end users at retail, but also less compelling to cable companies.
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post #1264 of 18262 Old 01-08-2009, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishinjim View Post

I'll be getting one soon as my timewarner cable is $80 or more per month. the dish DTVPal DVR has convinced the wife to dump cable as we now have a dvr option that will pay for itself in 3 months.
I just find it really disappointing that noone else has really jumped on the OTA DVR market.

the forum is awesome and thanks to everybody who has contributed to this topic.

This is the exact reason why I ordered one, by Comcrap bill is $90 and they sent me a nice letter saying that there service is so great that they will need to raise my rates this month. This thing cant get to my door step soon enough!

Jay
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post #1265 of 18262 Old 01-08-2009, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustycruiser View Post

I was just about to ask this. Have the right speed and type of 750gb or 1TB drives all been tried? Is there still some testing needed to be done? Or is it pretty much accepted that 500gb is the largest possible upgrade.

I was wondering if anyone has tried to drop a 1TB drive in this that has been preformatted (like a sector by sector Ghost process).
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post #1266 of 18262 Old 01-08-2009, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlkane View Post

getting the bogus "The selected event is already recording" error (A674) -- if two conditions are true:
- the channel to be scheduled supplies PSIP data only
AND
- the time to be scheduled is beyond the window covered by the PSIP data

I'm in Clearfield, UT and have been loving the DTVPal DVR. I have had only 1 or two random freezes or reboots. I'm getting TVGOS.
I'm trying to schedule Ugly Betty and a 2 hour block on NBC. I'm using the guide to click and schedule Ugly Betty- it works without a problem. I can't schedule any of the 4 NBC shows, though. I get "The selected event is already recording" error (A674)".
I had the first three scheduled previously but couldn't add Ugly Betty. So I deleted all the timers for prime time and then was able to add Ugly Betty. I can't find where I've already set these recordings. Any ideas where to look?
I've looked under:
- DVR > Daily Schedule. Nothing was pending at 7p. Little house ends at 6:58 and the next timer is at 10p for the news. I do have these shows (except for the last of the 4) listed as Deleted. How can I Undelete them? Even if I could, I don't think that's the issue because I get the same error trying to add the last show, even though I have never made a timer for it.
- DVR > Timers. This has the same info as Daily Schedule.

I guess we'll see what happens tonight. Overall, I'm very satisfied with my purchase. It's cheaper than a MythTV setup and has less potential for problems.
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post #1267 of 18262 Old 01-08-2009, 03:22 PM
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When you are going to have overlapping/simultaneous recordings - schedule the long one first, then the short ones. Known behavior and workaround.

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

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post #1268 of 18262 Old 01-08-2009, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by booyah5 View Post

I was wondering if anyone has tried to drop a 1TB drive in this that has been preformatted (like a sector by sector Ghost process).

did that to a 750GB drive a couple weeks ago. didn't work.
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post #1269 of 18262 Old 01-08-2009, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post

When you are going to have overlapping/simultaneous recordings - schedule the long one first, then the short ones. Known behavior and workaround.

Thanks for your response. I am aware of this issue, that's why I deleted the shorter ones to schedule Ugly Betty. Trouble is that after I added Ugly Betty, I couldn't add the shorter ones back. Now Ugly is recording and the shorter show is playing live. I'm watching it, but can't record it- it says "The selected event is already recording. A674". But obviously it's not because I'm recording Ugly and watching the other show live. I can change the channel, so it's not playing back a recording. Has anybody else experienced this bug?
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post #1270 of 18262 Old 01-08-2009, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mebes View Post

I am also having no problems with my box recieved Dec.24
Carver, MN.
Factory firmware.
No reboots or lockups for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffmplsmn View Post

After 51 power recycles, the box was shipped back to Dish ... 3 or 4 reboots an hour

Maybe that one was a totally bad unit?
Quote:
Originally Posted by akbungle View Post

Just to say again so people don't think everyone's box is bad, I've had mine since Dec. 23 and the only problem I"ve had is that one of my recordings said there was a problem with a certain recording due to lost signal.
I'm in the Mpls, MN area and the TV Guide portion has worked perfect as far as I can tell. Also I did update the firmware right away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nguyej1 View Post

People in MPLS/St. Paul area, please verify this statement. If it is true then the issue is related to TVGOS.

Mpls area, F202, real zip, smartcard in, not plugged into network, guide download 2am, standby after 4 hours: TV Guide symbol is displayed in the guide, fortunately no lockups or reboots either. I have gotten a couple of recordings too that say they have a lost signal with at most a slight pixelation in a couple seconds of the recording, though I have a good unamplified outdoor antenna that typically delivers signal in the 90s.
Any other Minneapolis MN area users?
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post #1271 of 18262 Old 01-08-2009, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay427 View Post

This is the exact reason why I ordered one, by Comcrap bill is $90 and they sent me a nice letter saying that there service is so great that they will need to raise my rates this month. This thing cant get to my door step soon enough!

Jay

Funny. I dropped them a year ago and just got a letter in the mail from them today offering a free YEAR of basic if I would sign up for their VoIP. Good Ridens to them!
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post #1272 of 18262 Old 01-08-2009, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhMyTVC15 View Post

I'm amazed that people want to upgrade their hard drive. I look at My recordings and i have 20+ recordings on it and still 20 hours of HD and 100+ of SD recording time left. I mean really, how much TV can you watch? And i am like Jim, i get occasional reboots but this is a minor annoyance. I still love my DVR and those that don't have it yet and are waiting for the bugs to get worked out, well don't hesitate, the bugs are few and minor. It ain't perfect but at $250 its a steal, bugs and all.

I would agree. I have had mine since 12/23 and have had 2 lockups and 1 re-boots. There is no TVGOS currently in my area so that is not the problem. My Panasonic DVD Recorder I bought less than a year ago has has more lockups then this unit has since I bought it. MS Windows locks up more than this unit. Let's face it. Anytime you add hardware controlled by software, there are problems. Nothing is 100% perfect. I wish it was. Either way, I am not unhappy with this purchase. I may order another one because what will probably happen is that Dish will either charge a service fee on new units like Tivo, or discontinue the unit altogether and then you'll regret not buying one. I don't have Tivo, but I am sure there are issues with those units as well and you pay more than twice what the Pal cost.
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post #1273 of 18262 Old 01-08-2009, 09:36 PM
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After completing my conversation with tech support @ Dish earlier this week, I expected a follow-up e-mail to let me know how to return my original unit so that they could then send me a new unit. Well, after 3 days, no e-mail. Just when I was about to call Dish & restart the process, a second unit showed up today. So I now have my original unit that is experiencing re-boot issues still (no recent lock-ups) & this second unit. I assume they'll contact me to let me know where to send the original unit.

The interesting thing about this second unit is how it was shipped; It came with no manual, no cords, and was not in the electrostatic bag. I think it is either a unit that Dish technicians evaluated and sent or it is a refurbished unit.

So I'll let everyone know if the second unit experiences any of the original issues.
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post #1274 of 18262 Old 01-08-2009, 10:47 PM
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Revised poll is now a 'sticky' topic at top of forum.

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

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post #1275 of 18262 Old 01-08-2009, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Raymond View Post

I wonder how buggy Echostar's new ViP 922 will be and if they will charge a monthly fee for OTA users. Seems like they should get one product right before introducing another.

The 722's still buggy? And that's their "bread and butter".

Well, then, since this doesn't make them anything in continuing subscription fees, I certainly wouldn't expect them to care any more about it than those.
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post #1276 of 18262 Old 01-08-2009, 10:59 PM
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carpoolfinder.appspot.com/?place=DTVPalDVR

The line above is NOT a url because I am not allowed to provide URL's yet as a new poster.

I have created a pushpin map that all can access. The purpose of the map is to see where people are having trouble with reboots. So stick a pin in the map and instead of your name, say one of the following phrases, for example.

No reboots.
2 reboots/week

The system will only let you put in one pin at a time. But if you return, you can put in another. But only put in another to show where your TVGOS provider is with their call letters, like WXIA.

You can delete your pin by RIGHT clicking on it. But this system is brand new and I have experienced inconsistent behavior regarding RIGHT clicking. It has worked best if I strike the right click sharply, but briefly. One time I just left clicked on a pin and it offered to delete. So I don't know what is happening.

Anyhow, this is just an experiment. No one else has tried using this system.

Brian in Atlanta

PS.

If you want a sandbox to play in, try carpoolfinder.appspot.com/ and type in Tester .
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post #1277 of 18262 Old 01-09-2009, 03:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerowords View Post

http://carpoolfinder.appspot.com/?place=DTVPalDVR

I have created a pushpin map that all can access. The purpose of the map is to see where people are having trouble with reboots. So stick a pin in the map and instead of your name, say one of the following phrases, for example.

No reboots.
2 reboots/week

The system will only let you put in one pin at a time. But if you return, you can put in another. But only put in another to show where your TVGOS provider is with their call letters, like WXIA.

Brian in Atlanta

Great idea. I would suggest simply to put in the station ID for the station with TVGOS or "NONE" for no TVGOS and then something like "none", "no reboots", "5 reboots/week", or "4 reboots" etc., for example, I added "WJZ no reboots".
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post #1278 of 18262 Old 01-09-2009, 04:59 AM
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Well, chapelrun has generously donated a 500 GB drive to my cause! Did everyone else get theirs, yet? Thanks, chapelrun!

He has also loaned me his original 250 GB drive for testing. Now I have a 500 GB drive internal to the unit and two 250 GB drives external (until I give one back to chapelrun).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mebes View Post

chapelrun... or anyone else upgrading drive.

I have not opened mine up yet, but I was wondering what happens if you take out a drive with recordings on it and replace it with a 500 Gig then recorded some on the new drive.

What happens if you put the old drive back in?
Are the old recordings avaliable? (when you put the old drive back in)
Or does it just format it?

I'm just thinking that if I open mine up and extend HDD cables out the back of the PAL.
I could just swap multiple drives around when they are full.

Kind of like swapping out a VCR tape when you want to keep it.
Or like using an external USB drive (feature that is not supported yet)

Thanks S

Here are some results and thoughts on Mebes' excellent suggestion, based on my testing:

1) You CAN watch anything you recorded previously, even if it was on a different drive.
2) You CAN also watch anything recorded on a drive from a *different* DTVPal DVR. I tested this by using the old drive from my brother's machine.
3) There is a sticker that spans from the internal drive to the supporting frame that reads "WARNING!!! Tampering With Seal Voids Warranty". Well, I've just voided mine. If I had thought about it for more than an instant, I probably would have simply set the 500 GB drive on top and run it there until the warranty is up (next month). Here is a picture of the label:

4) This arrangement allows me to record programs I want to keep for a long time on the external 250 GB drive and use the internal 500 GB drive for "rolling" recordings that occur daily or weekly.
5) For now, I'm simply leaving the cover off and have a rubber mat on top of my internal drive mount where I place the external drive. That way the existing cables reach the second drive.
6) One drawback of having the cover off is that you cannot see the green and red LEDs on the front panel, since their light is brought up to the top cover via plastic light pipes. The workaround here is to set the cover on top gently so that some of the light can be seen.
7) I am unable to use the 1 foot SATA cables that I have lying around to extend the cables outside the box since the one in the unit has a right-angle connector. Without the right angle, the cable blocks the hard drive from being replaced. If you are buying a SATA cable to use for this purpose, please ensure one end has such a right-angle connector. Here is a picture of the SATA cable included in the DTVPal DVR:

8) I MUST remember to UNPLUG the unit before swapping drives.
9) I don't like the idea of shutting off power with the drive active. It's too bad there is not some way to spin down the drive before removing power.
10) I need to be careful to check the schedule to ensure no recordings are upcoming on the internal drive before using the backup drive for either recording or playback. Otherwise I will end up recording on the wrong drive.
11) Obviously this arrangement is not ideal, but perhaps if USB support is added later I will still be able to use the same drive AND all of my recordings. (Not likely, IMO, since the recordings are not encrypted on the internal drive, but that will probably be a requirement for an external one. We will see.)
12) In a previous post I had reported that the TVGOS data did NOT go away when I replaced the drives. However, from my testing today, it appears that it DOES go away when I replace the drive. When I swap in a drive and restart, the unit spends some time reading what is on the drive, the time depending on how many recordings are found there. But the guide data seems to have reverted to PSIP from what was previously TVGOS. No logo and only a few hours of data on some channels. The good news is that all of my scheduled recordings are still there. The result is that I am unable to do much programming just after swapping the drives, but what I had before is still there. As such, I think this approach is workable, even though the guide data disappears.

Anyway, this works and MAY suit my needs. We'll see whether it's worth the trouble or not. If not, I'll probably just go with the 500 GB internal and be done with it.

Here is what my setup looks when using the external drive:


Here is how my setup looks normally (Note the case is NOT closed, but external drive is not inside. It is sitting beside the DTVPal DVR.):


Thoughts?

Reg
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #1279 of 18262 Old 01-09-2009, 05:31 AM
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Reg, Great - Glad it worked out!!!

We need a few pix as I'm not completely clear on how you are currently running.

I assume that for now only one drive can be active at a time - - for example only the 500GB or one of the 250GB can be connected at any single time.

It would be nice if Dish would enable the USB connection for additional storage thus making the drive swapping unnecessary.
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post #1280 of 18262 Old 01-09-2009, 05:44 AM
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bfdtv

If possible could you add the known upgraded working hard drive model numbers to the first post. Would be nice to have them all in one place now that it look like we have a couple of comfirmed working upgrades.

btw the fist post looks great, I have not checked it for about a week, that one post will cover just about every thing for the new guy/gal.

thanks

Jay
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post #1281 of 18262 Old 01-09-2009, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chapelrun View Post

Reg, Great - Glad it worked out!!!

We need a few pix as I'm not completely clear on how you are currently running.

I assume that for now only one drive can be active at a time - - for example only the 500GB or one of the 250GB can be connected at any single time.

It would be nice if Dish would enable the USB connection for additional storage thus making the drive swapping unnecessary.

chapelrun, I read a quote from you in the Poll thread that your Pal DVR has not experienced any reboots since you replaced the HDD with a new 500 GB model. This immediately caught my eye for the following reason. When I bought my Panasonic E-85 DVD recorder some years back it worked perfectly for a couple months then started exhibiting very erratic TVGOS behavior with respect to recording mishaps. To make the story short, work-arounds were possible, but the problems got worse with age until one day the HDD just up and died. After replacing the HDD with a new model purchased at retail, all the previous problems vanished in and instant and never returned. The unit continues to be in daily use since then and to this day has been 100% reliable for nearly 2 yrs.

Please keep this in mind and keep us informed as to whether or not you start to suffer a recurrence of reboots with the new drive.

- kelson h

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post #1282 of 18262 Old 01-09-2009, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerowords View Post

carpoolfinder.appspot.com/?place=DTVPalDVR

The line above is NOT a url because I am not allowed to provide URL's yet as a new poster.

I have created a pushpin map that all can access. The purpose of the map is to see where people are having trouble with reboots. So stick a pin in the map and instead of your name, say one of the following phrases, for example.

No reboots.
2 reboots/week

The system will only let you put in one pin at a time. But if you return, you can put in another. But only put in another to show where your TVGOS provider is with their call letters, like WXIA.

You can delete your pin by RIGHT clicking on it. But this system is brand new and I have experienced inconsistent behavior regarding RIGHT clicking. It has worked best if I strike the right click sharply, but briefly. One time I just left clicked on a pin and it offered to delete. So I don't know what is happening.

Anyhow, this is just an experiment. No one else has tried using this system.

Brian in Atlanta

PS.

If you want a sandbox to play in, try carpoolfinder.appspot.com/ and type in Tester .

Linkafied
http://carpoolfinder.appspot.com/?place=DTVPalDVR

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.

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post #1283 of 18262 Old 01-09-2009, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

chapelrun, I read a quote from you in the Poll thread that your Pal DVR has not experienced any reboots since you replaced the HDD with a new 500 GB model. This immediately caught my eye for the following reason. When I bought my Panasonic E-85 DVD recorder some years back it worked perfectly for a couple months then started exhibiting very erratic TVGOS behavior with respect to recording mishaps. To make the story short, work-arounds were possible, but the problems got worse with age until one day the HDD just up and died. After replacing the HDD with a new model purchased at retail, all the previous problems vanished in and instant and never returned. The unit continues to be in daily use since then and to this day has been 100% reliable for nearly 2 yrs.

Please keep this in mind and keep us informed as to whether or not you start to suffer a recurrence of reboots with the new drive.

When I first got the unit I did have alot of reboots and problems. Once I did the process where I reset to "Factory Defaults" and turned off updates and cleared the reboot count the system was very stable with only two issues - -this was with the original 250GB (and this was for a period of about 2 weeks)

The new 500GB drive has only been in for two days with ZERO issues but I would like some more time with the new 500GB drive before passing judgement.

Lastly - - - I may be getting TVGOS from both DC (WUSA) and Baltimore (WJZ) and I do have a fully populated TVGOS except for a few stations that offer no information at all. Not knowing anything about TVGOS it seems to me when the system is initially populating TVGOS it does have issues but once it is fully populated it is much happier. Hope this helps!
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post #1284 of 18262 Old 01-09-2009, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chapelrun View Post

Reg, Great - Glad it worked out!!!

Me, too!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chapelrun View Post

We need a few pix as I'm not completely clear on how you are currently running.

Done. I added the pictures into my post.
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Originally Posted by chapelrun View Post

I assume that for now only one drive can be active at a time - - for example only the 500GB or one of the 250GB can be connected at any single time.

That is correct.
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Originally Posted by chapelrun View Post

It would be nice if Dish would enable the USB connection for additional storage thus making the drive swapping unnecessary.

Agreed. However, I'm OK with my current setup. The fact is you cannot stack anything on top of this unit, anyway, so having the lid slightly open most of the time is no problem for me. As it stands, I have 500 GB of "normal" storage and 250 GB of "long-term" storage. One benefit of this approach is that the "long-term" storage is not spinning, so perhaps it will last a very long time, assuming occasional use.

Thanks again for the drive!
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post #1285 of 18262 Old 01-09-2009, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by chapelrun View Post

The new 500GB drive has only been in for two days with ZERO issues but I would like some more time with the new 500GB drive before passing judgement.

Agreed. Let's see what happens in the coming weeks.

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post #1286 of 18262 Old 01-09-2009, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by C Clark View Post

After completing my conversation with tech support @ Dish earlier this week, I expected a follow-up e-mail to let me know how to return my original unit so that they could then send me a new unit. Well, after 3 days, no e-mail. Just when I was about to call Dish & restart the process, a second unit showed up today. So I now have my original unit that is experiencing re-boot issues still (no recent lock-ups) & this second unit. I assume they'll contact me to let me know where to send the original unit.

The interesting thing about this second unit is how it was shipped; It came with no manual, no cords, and was not in the electrostatic bag. I think it is either a unit that Dish technicians evaluated and sent or it is a refurbished unit.

So I'll let everyone know if the second unit experiences any of the original issues.

Check the SN to see if it's earlier or later than your problematic one.
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post #1287 of 18262 Old 01-09-2009, 07:24 AM
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Has anyone from the Philly area gotten one of these Pal DVR's -- getting signal from the Roxborough transmission towers; digital TVGOS from KYW, CBS ch 3.

- kelson h

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post #1288 of 18262 Old 01-09-2009, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by RegGuheert View Post

Me, too! Done. I added the pictures into my post.That is correct.Agreed. However, I'm OK with my current setup. The fact is you cannot stack anything on top of this unit, anyway, so having the lid slightly open most of the time is no problem for me. As it stands, I have 500 GB of "normal" storage and 250 GB of "long-term" storage. One benefit of this approach is that the "long-term" storage is not spinning, so perhaps it will last a very long time, assuming occasional use.

Thanks again for the drive!

Assuming that the open unit doesn't detract from targeted fan-based airflow and cooling the only issue is an increased potential for dust accumulation. But, cleaning is easy when the unit is open
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post #1289 of 18262 Old 01-09-2009, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by RegGuheert View Post

12) In a previous post I had reported that the TVGOS data did NOT go away when I replaced the drives. However, from my testing today, it appears that it DOES go away when I replace the drive. When I swap in a drive and restart, the unit spends some time reading what is on the drive, the time depending on how many recordings are found there. But the guide data seems to have reverted to PSIP from what was previously TVGOS. No logo and only a few hours of data on some channels. The good news is that all of my scheduled recordings are still there. The result is that I am unable to do much programming just after swapping the drives, but what I had before is still there. As such, I think this approach is workable, even though the guide data disappears.

I just did a further test on this by unplugging the unit for a few minutes and NOT changing the hard disk. The result was the same: TV Guide logo again disappeared and I again only have some PSIP data limited to some stations and only about 12 hours of programming data.

As cavemaster has pointed out to me, this indicates that the program guide is NOT stored in non-volatile storage such as the hard disk or FLASH, but rather must be stored in RAM. That makes sense to me.
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post #1290 of 18262 Old 01-09-2009, 08:32 AM
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I'm not ordering this thing until all these problems are cleared up. still hoping some other company comes out with a better working model.
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