The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 46 - AVS Forum
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HDTV Recorders > The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic!
hignfy's Avatar hignfy 08:24 PM 01-10-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishinjim View Post

not to threadcrap, but would a antenna with S-video out allow a tivo series 2 dvr to function without cable or satellite?

How can an antenna have an S-Video out? Do you mean in combination with a digital set top box?

A TiVo Series3 as a built-in ATSC tuner.
Series2 can use an approved set top box.
Series1 does not support set top boxes.

andy416us's Avatar andy416us 08:36 PM 01-10-2009
Damn... only if they had ESPN2 to choose from my tennis coverage would be complete. - U.S. Open on USA and the three other majors (and other tennis tournaments) on ESPN2) But it's a start! This box looks like it's only going to get better!

Little update, my machine is still running fine with the WD5000AAKS HD upgrade. Few problems with recordings (similar to what people have described here), but I thinks it's due to crappy digital TVGOS data... I love this box!
bfdtv's Avatar bfdtv 10:29 PM 01-10-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by avs_wannabe View Post

Just curious ...

Any chance the DTVPal DVR has an unpublished ClearQAM tuner?

There is no functional QAM support.

More information is available in the first post.
Ken H's Avatar Ken H 01:10 AM 01-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

More information is available in the first post.

Yes, a lot more.

Anyone with questions about the DTVPal DVR should read the first post of this topic, which is updated on a regular basis.
RegGuheert's Avatar RegGuheert 05:13 AM 01-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

It may be for Echostar Terrestrial as seen in this link
If these were in HD, I'd pay $5 a month for them...or possibly $1 each if I could pick and choose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RegGuheert View Post

Wow! Discovery and History. Two channels that I would like to have access to, but am unwilling to pay for satellite service just to get them. If I can access them through my new DVR, I might be willing to pay for that, even it it were not HD.

I'll certainly be interested to learn more about this! Unfortunately, since I get internet access through HughesNet satellite, I would need to be able to download them during my unlimited time of 2:00AM to 7:00AM and store them on the DVR for playback later in the day. I doubt they will permit that. We'll see.

Looking into this further, it appears that this is a paid OTA service available in UK currently. For reference, here is anAmazon UK listing for the receiver for this service.

If they were to begin broadcasting such a service in my area, I may be interested, particularly if it were in HD. Of course I might want to wait until you guys beta-test the bugs out of the system, first!
nolim2873's Avatar nolim2873 05:44 AM 01-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by smiles56 View Post

...Recording playback looks as good as live. Where have i been, as a pvr seems more necessary than a fine resolution. Never mind, i have been in the ota ntsc snowy reception room. ...

If you're saying that you'd rather have it use less hard drive space than give you such a high quality recording, it doesn't work that way. You have to remember that ATSC is digital while NTSC is analog.

With NTSC DVRs, it has to first convert the analog to digital before storing on the hard drive. It also compresses the digital data first. The amount of compression controls the amount of hard drive space used and the quality. More compress less space but also less quality. NTSC DVRs also usually have a setting for quality.

ATSC digital data is already compressed (with MPEG-2). With ATSC DVRs like the DTVPla DVR, it simply stores the data exactly as received. That's why a recording looks exactly the same as live.

The nice thing is that only the data from the sub-channel being recorded is actually stored, not the whole data stream (I don't know why I thought it would record the whole stream). So recording an SD sub-channel doesn't use much space on the hard drive or recording an HD channel for a channel with a couple of SD sub-channels (the HD channel is allocated less space). Though it says it has 35+ hours available, it has more capacity since none of the channels reserves the whole data stream for the main HD channel. In other words, it's a very conservative value.
nolim2873's Avatar nolim2873 05:53 AM 01-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by RegGuheert View Post

If they were to begin broadcasting such a service in my area, I may be interested, particularly if it were in HD. Of course I might want to wait until you guys beta-test the bugs out of the system, first!

If these channels were broadcast, they could fit all 7 in one channel - as highly compressed SD channels , so I wouldn't get your hopes up for these in HD OTA.

The only other way would be over the Ethernet and it would have to be an on demand type of service.
RegGuheert's Avatar RegGuheert 05:56 AM 01-11-2009
Once yesterday and again today I have experienced a new problem: The sound gets distorted. How can I describe the distortion? It sounds as if it has been sent through a voice processor to make people sound like transformers. The kids find it hilarious! This distortion occurs on all channels and on live as well as recorded television.

To get the problem to go away, I have found I needed to turn off the unit and turn it back on. However, that doesn't always work. Sometimes I have to repeat the procedure until the problem is gone.

I have also tried fixing the issue by turning off my TV, in case the problem was due to the HDMI interface, but that did not fix the problem. Please note that I have never seen such an issue with any of the other HDMI-connected devices I have used with this TV: 2 DVD players, 1 Blu-ray player, 1 HD-DVD player. As a result, I'm convinced the problem is with the DTVPal DVR.

Has anyone else experienced this issue?
RegGuheert's Avatar RegGuheert 06:03 AM 01-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolim2873 View Post

If these channels were broadcast, they could fit all 7 in one channel - as highly compressed SD channels , so I wouldn't get your hopes up for these in HD OTA.

The only other way would be over the Ethernet and it would have to be an on demand type of service.

Good points. I don't know much about how the broadcast spectrum is organized in Britain, so I wonder how many channels they use for broadcasting this service over there. Does anyone know what is done? It would seem to be much harder to offer such a service OTA in the US unless it only covered limited geography. Ethernet seems to be more likely, doesn't it?
fishinjim's Avatar fishinjim 06:12 AM 01-11-2009
yes, my bad, I meant the digital atsc tuner box.
smiles56's Avatar smiles56 07:36 AM 01-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolim2873 View Post

If you're saying that you'd rather have it use less hard drive space than give you such a high quality recording, it doesn't work that way. You have to remember that ATSC is digital while NTSC is analog.

Not at all saying that. In fact i personally would prefer there to be no compression and nothing less than 1080p avliable for viewing. For recording with the pal i select the hd for time shifting. These recordings may remain on unit until it is full and perhaps watched again at some point. The sd recordings for time shifting will simply be deleted once viewed. Compression is only a present necesity but should die IMO. Record in raw and deliver in raw!Not that the bcasters will ever let it happen though.
Last 36 hours with the dvr had only one silent reboot. It went right back into the recording and finished it. Rest of used functions on the paldvr worked perfectly
Super_Chachi's Avatar Super_Chachi 07:40 AM 01-11-2009
I had a lock up last night while watching a recorded show. After the issue happened and I hard rebooted. After that incident, I noticed that the unit now has a substantial delay when performing certain functions such as changing channels, and allowing you to use the DVR menu after watching a recording (after hitting stop on the remote).
When changing channels it takes ~15 seconds before the picture comes up after it tunes the next channel and in the mean time the picture is black and the unit does not accept any commands from the remote.
When stopping a recording, there is that same ~15 second delay before the unit is able to accept any commands from the remote (to be able to scroll up and down between Start, Resume, Edit Name, and Done).

So this morning, I did another hard reboot and it fixed the issue.
nolim2873's Avatar nolim2873 09:01 AM 01-11-2009
I just re-read the first post, good job bfdtv! Everyone should give it a read. Anyway, I have a minor comment on two items:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

(Frequently Asked Questions) 25. Why doesn't the internal drive spin down? Wouldn't that prolong the life of the DVR?

Frequent power cycles and/or drive "spin downs" are perceived by manufacturers as threats to DVR longevity. Constant "spinning up" and "spinning down" causes more wear and tear on a modern drive than simply letting it run 24/7.

For this reason, the overwhelming majority of all modern DVRs keep their internal drives running 24/7. This includes all DirecTV HR2x DVRs, all Dish Network DVRs (since the original Dishplayer), all TiVo DVRs, and all Motorola DVRs. Reliability is a key consideration for these products because most are distributed at a loss, with profits made through programming and/or other fees. The longer these products remain in use, without the need for a replacement, the more money the provider makes.

That's not to say that "spinning down" a drive is always bad; it can potentially extend drive life if used in moderation. Scientific Atlanta DVRs running some versions of the SARA software will spin-down the internal drive for the night when no user activity is observed past 1am. There may be some merit in that. But "spinning down" the drive every time you hit the "off" button is not a feature you are likely to see on any new DVR, because that is not the best way to prolong the life of the product.

My Dish 508 still occasionally spins down the drive because when I go to turn it on, there's a short message "...hard drive is spinning up...". It does not do this all the time, in fact it's somewhat rare now; however, many software releases ago (2 years?), both of my 508s (one since retired) did this every time the receiver was turned on the first time of the day. (Perhaps you could say most Dish Network DVRs.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

(Software Fix / Feature Requests) 6. When the user presses record while watching a live TV program, save the buffer to the recording

Currently, when you press record while watching a live TV program, the DVR only saves the program from the point that record was pressed. The DVR ignores the rest of the program that is currently in the buffer. Users are not able to rewind and then hit record to save more of the buffer to the recording, as they can on the Dish Network DP50x/DP510 satellite DVRs.

Change this behavior to save the total buffer to the recording. Alternatively, duplicate the behavior of the DP50x/DP510 DVRs, which is to save the buffer from the current play/pause point onward; with this implementation, the user could rewind to the start of the program and hit record to save the full program.

The Dish 625 and I assume the 522 (since it has the same s/w as the 625, just a different hard drive size) also exhibit the same behavior as the DP50x/DP510 DVRs. (So you could say DP5xx/DP625 DVRs.)
nolim2873's Avatar nolim2873 09:17 AM 01-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by smiles56 View Post

Not at all saying that. In fact i personally would prefer there to be no compression and nothing less than 1080p available for viewing. ... Compression is only a present necessity but should die IMO. Record in raw and deliver in raw!Not that the bcasters will ever let it happen though.
...

Compression must exist, otherwise HD over an existing broadcast channel bandwidth would not be possible. Without compression you would be left with only one SD quality digital channel. Compression makes HD possible. The broadcasters would never be allowed to have channels to use 6 times the bandwidth currently allowed (if even possible).

This applies to DVDs and BDs also, which are also compressed. The capacity would be much less without it. I don't think people would go for a 2 hour movie taking several disc changes. (If you remember Laser Discs - a high quality for its time analog format, a movie was usually on 2 or 3 sides requiring side changes and disc changes during a movie.)
bfdtv's Avatar bfdtv 09:40 AM 01-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolim2873 View Post


My Dish 508 still occasionally spins down the drive because when I go to turn it on, there's a short message "...hard drive is spinning up...". It does not do this all the time, in fact it's somewhat rare now; however, many software releases ago (2 years?), both of my 508s (one since retired) did this every time the receiver was turned on the first time of the day.

Thanks, I was not aware of that. I edited the first post to reflect that.
Chuck44's Avatar Chuck44 10:43 AM 01-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by RegGuheert View Post

Once yesterday and again today I have experienced a new problem: The sound gets distorted. How can I describe the distortion? It sounds as if it has been sent through a voice processor to make people sound like transformers. The kids find it hilarious! This distortion occurs on all channels and on live as well as recorded television.

To get the problem to go away, I have found I needed to turn off the unit and turn it back on. However, that doesn't always work. Sometimes I have to repeat the procedure until the problem is gone.

I have also tried fixing the issue by turning off my TV, in case the problem was due to the HDMI interface, but that did not fix the problem. Please note that I have never seen such an issue with any of the other HDMI-connected devices I have used with this TV: 2 DVD players, 1 Blu-ray player, 1 HD-DVD player. As a result, I'm convinced the problem is with the DTVPal DVR.

Has anyone else experienced this issue?

Try changing the cable(s).
Scooper's Avatar Scooper 12:42 PM 01-11-2009
It's an infrequent thing that comes up rarely. I've had it happen a couple times. Sometimes, changing the channel fixes it, other times you have to power off.
FRANK43's Avatar FRANK43 02:35 PM 01-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by RegGuheert View Post

Once yesterday and again today I have experienced a new problem: The sound gets distorted. How can I describe the distortion? It sounds as if it has been sent through a voice processor to make people sound like transformers. The kids find it hilarious! This distortion occurs on all channels and on live as well as recorded television.

To get the problem to go away, I have found I needed to turn off the unit and turn it back on. However, that doesn't always work. Sometimes I have to repeat the procedure until the problem is gone.

I have also tried fixing the issue by turning off my TV, in case the problem was due to the HDMI interface, but that did not fix the problem. Please note that I have never seen such an issue with any of the other HDMI-connected devices I have used with this TV: 2 DVD players, 1 Blu-ray player, 1 HD-DVD player. As a result, I'm convinced the problem is with the DTVPal DVR.

Has anyone else experienced this issue?

I think it is a local and network problem since I can get the same thing just watching my HD TV through the antenna (not the dvr) and over satellite. It also seems to accompany some pixilation.
RegGuheert's Avatar RegGuheert 06:12 PM 01-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck44 View Post

Try changing the cable(s).

Thanks! That's certainly a possibility! However, changing cables in my setup is not something I do lightly. I make the plunge back there about once a quarter and that just happened last week when I made the DTVPal DVR installation "Official". FWIW, the cable I'm using is a new 2 meter unit which was purchased from the lowest bidder. So far the issue has only happened twice. If it gets worse, an HDMI cable swap will be one of the first things I try.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRANK43 View Post

I think it is a local and network problem since I can get the same thing just watching my HD TV through the antenna (not the dvr) and over satellite. It also seems to accompany some pixilation.

I've never had a similar problem before getting the DVR. With my TV, I do get pixelation and sound glitches sometimes, but the sound always returns to normal soon afterwards. With this problem, the sound REMAINS distorted indefinitely after it starts. It does seem possible that the problem could be brought on by a glitch, but only the DVR seems to stay in a state where the sound is distorted.

So I'm all alone on this one?
mw390's Avatar mw390 06:16 PM 01-11-2009
I still am not getting WPIX-DT listings. Besides wanna_be, is anyone else in the metro NY area getting it or not? I set the zip to 10001 (34 st Manhattan)
ecoman's Avatar ecoman 09:11 PM 01-11-2009
Well, another proposed fix for the lockups bites the dust. I had already tried the update-disable fix, and the zero-zip-code fix, which both failed. See my earlier post. So I tried the reset-factory-defaults fix. Since then, I've had 11 power cycles, watched less than 10 hours, and had another lockup. During this time, I have also disabled updates, and TVGOS was not reloading, so I was not using that feature either. I am also still on the original firmware. My unit arrived Dec. 24. Any other ideas for me to try?
jerrisn's Avatar jerrisn 10:00 PM 01-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecoman View Post

Well, another proposed fix for the lockups bites the dust. I had already tried the update-disable fix, and the zero-zip-code fix, which both failed. See my earlier post. So I tried the reset-factory-defaults fix. Since then, I've had 11 power cycles, watched less than 10 hours, and had another lockup. During this time, I have also disabled updates, and TVGOS was not reloading, so I was not using that feature either. I am also still on the original firmware. My unit arrived Dec. 24. Any other ideas for me to try?

Why not try updating the firmware. I just updated mine a few days ago. Prior to that, I had a few problems as mentioned previously. Noticed a few since, but I have never encountered 11 power cycles for no reason. I had the guide update yesterday during a show, which I don't believe is a flaw, rather a poor oversight on Dish Networks part. I just can't believe that so many units are showing up DOA like it seems.
jas_Qfix's Avatar jas_Qfix 10:16 PM 01-11-2009
Hi All,

I have been watching from the side line to see where this is taking me.
Can somebody kind enough to list all the known problems with the DTVpal-DVR?
Also please list any known fixes for these problems or tolerable/non-tolerable waits.

I almost order mine. But now, I have to be pretty stupid to jump in. Since this thing
is having sooo many known problems.

Thanks.
Scooper's Avatar Scooper 10:34 PM 01-11-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas_Qfix View Post

Hi All,

I have been watching from the side line to see where this is taking me.
Can somebody kind enough to list all the known problems with the DTVpal-DVR?
Also please list any known fixes for these problems or tolerable/non-tolerable waits.

I almost order mine. But now, I have to be pretty stupid to jump in. Since this thing
is having sooo many known problems.

Thanks.

Go read Post 1 of this thread.
biker19's Avatar biker19 03:02 AM 01-12-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas_Qfix View Post

I almost order mine. But now, I have to be pretty stupid to jump in. Since this thing
is having sooo many known problems.
.

If you were to go to any web forum for anything and only look at the negatives (without looking at the big picture and knowing the background) you'd never buy anything.
Chuck44's Avatar Chuck44 06:25 AM 01-12-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by biker19 View Post

If you were to go to any web forum for anything and only look at the negatives (without looking at the big picture and knowing the background) you'd never buy anything.

That's a good point. I'm sure there are lots of folks (myself included) that are happy with the unit and have had few problems.
Those few with serious problems do most of the posting.
Mebes's Avatar Mebes 06:51 AM 01-12-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck44 View Post

that's a good point. I'm sure there are lots of folks (myself included) that are happy with the unit and have had few problems.
Those few with serious problems do most of the posting.

+1
C Clark's Avatar C Clark 06:58 AM 01-12-2009
After having received my second unit last week, I can report that there have been no re-boots or lock-ups.
mw390's Avatar mw390 07:58 AM 01-12-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by mw390 View Post

I still am not getting WPIX-DT listings. Besides wanna_be, is anyone else in the metro NY area getting it or not? I set the zip to 10001 (34 st Manhattan)


I did notice that I had SOME WPIX-DT listings but not that far out. Am I safe to assume that it's PSIP data? If WCBS-HD is broadcasting the TVGOS data wouldn't they be doing it for everybody?
Drlink's Avatar Drlink 08:34 AM 01-12-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by C Clark View Post

After having received my second unit last week, I can report that there have been no re-boots or lock-ups.

That is encouraging. I hope other folks who get replacement models will also report back with updates on the functioning of their new unit.
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