The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 474 - AVS Forum
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post #14191 of 18360 Old 03-26-2012, 05:11 PM
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I got a 1TB WD10EVDS drive and extension cables for SATA and power. The drive just sits on the shelf next to the 7000. I put it on a couple of small blocks to allow more airflow around it. If you break off the tabs in the back, it makes a perfect slot to run the SATA and power cables out to the drive. Heat is no longer an issue with the HDD being external to the 7000. I expect that heat is what makes many of these units eventually fail in some way. It has been working fine for about six months now.
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post #14192 of 18360 Old 03-26-2012, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Yesterday my PALDVR every so often would display a message saying it could not connect to the internet to update. Only thing is it is not connected to the internet and update is turned off.

However my TV is wired to the internet. I later discovered when I tried to use my PC that my internet connect was down. So how in the world does the PALDVR know the TV is connected to the internet? And why when the TV is connected would the PALDVR produce an error message if the connection is down? That would imply communication with the TV and my network through the TV?

Everyone but me know about this?

Mine does this every once in a while also...but the DVR has no way of knowing whether the TV is connected to the internet or not. It's just one of those little bugs in the 7000. It doesn't disturb the recording.
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post #14193 of 18360 Old 03-26-2012, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cct1 View Post

Mine does this every once in a while also...but the DVR has no way of knowing whether the TV is connected to the internet or not. It's just one of those little bugs in the 7000. It doesn't disturb the recording.

I just got another pop-up just a few minutes ago while watching my Alcatraz finale episode. Obviously, no connection and its updater option is disabled. :O
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post #14194 of 18360 Old 03-27-2012, 08:55 PM
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Well folks, the first of my two units failed today. The symptoms were:

1. Repeated downloading Guide info. and random channel display on TV, alternating.

2. Total non-response to Remote Control commands, including power on/off and 'Soft Reset'.

3. Since unable to access 'Menu' and Set-up Menu's, attempted 2 hr, 'OFF' Hard Reset, STILL resulted in 1. & 2. above.

4. Removal of the Hard Drive restored ALL DVR functions EXCEPT recording, 'DVR' function on menu is grayed out, and removal of the lid exposed the cause of the Hard Drive failure - fan failure. Fan connector voltage was 13V (fan specs. 12V @ 0.1A), yet fan does not move. Checked my second unit and the fan is still operating.

So, non-response to remote commands and alternating Guide downloads and TV programs can be a symptom of Hard Drive failure. Check your fan operation, folks.

The preferred Western Digital Hard Drives, WD10EVVS and WD10EVDS, are no longer available, so I have an email to WD requesting a suitable replacement recommendation for these units. Looking forward to 4X recording time.


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post #14195 of 18360 Old 03-27-2012, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald1800 View Post

... removal of the lid exposed the cause of the Hard Drive failure - fan failure. Fan connector voltage was 13V (fan specs. 12V @ 0.1A), yet fan does not move. Checked my second unit and the fan is still operating.
...
Donald1800

Did you try cross examination: move each fun to other DVR ?
Perhaps fun controlling components are failed.
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post #14196 of 18360 Old 03-27-2012, 11:25 PM
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Fan input is 12V two wire connector, not multi-wire/multi-phase controller output, and no way for an external phase controller to read the fan phase position, so I assume that the phase controller is contained within the fan. There isn't even a third temperature controlling wire. With 12V, the fan should run 24/7/365.

A second factor is that I do not want to mess with a box while it is still functioning properly. It was a bear getting the first one open without breaking something. So, no thanx - I'll wait until I have to do it.

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post #14197 of 18360 Old 03-27-2012, 11:52 PM
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FYI: the fan is controlling by PWM on two wires.

Other way to check it - give him 12 VDC from ANY source.

You didn't get the point: what is failed ? Fan or control of it ?
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post #14198 of 18360 Old 03-28-2012, 07:30 PM
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Yes, you are correct - the fan is fine, and the fan control is is kaput. I will have to hard wire the fan from a convenient ground and 12V through a 100 ohm resister to reduce the fan speed and noise. I know that it is better to use PWM for fan speed control, but unfortunately that option is now kaput.

A followup on my search for a replacement 1T Hard Drive - I finally found a source for the WD10EVVS that still had some in stock. Every other site I tried were out of stock and many stated that this model was discontinued. Western Digital replied that this model was specifically designed for this application and would not recommend a currently available replacement. So, if you plan to make this improvement or want a back-up hard drive, this is the only place that I found that still has them in stock. Get them while they last:

http://serversupply.com/HARD%20DRIVE...L/WD10EVVS.htm

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post #14199 of 18360 Old 03-28-2012, 11:25 PM
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I would use a scope [or DMM] and check if a transistor near the fan's connector failed.
Seems to me it is.
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post #14200 of 18360 Old 03-29-2012, 12:42 AM
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Yes, that was my assumption as well. However, I do not have commercial parts designation for this device, a source for SMT devices nor SMT soldering equipment.

A calculation of the needed resistor for ~70% voltage and RPM is around 36 ohms - NOT 100 ohms as previously stated.

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post #14201 of 18360 Old 04-03-2012, 01:15 PM
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Successful 1T HD installation. However, I caution those doing this upgrade/repair to remember that you may have to manually 'Reformat the new HD' if there is "No Information" in the guide, and trying to set program timers in the Guide without first deleting ALL of the existing timers may result in the system freezing, requiring a soft/hard reset because of a timer data glitch/error. Both of these conditions happened during my 1T HD installation. But, all is well now.

As part of the repair, I hardwired the fan to a convenient +12V and GND through a 51 ohm resister which results in a slight but very low volume whine in a quiet room, but un-noticable while the TV is on, but a whole lot more air movement and COOL AIR exiting the top hole vents. A modification I highly recommend when upgrading to 1T HD for long life.

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post #14202 of 18360 Old 04-05-2012, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald1800 View Post

A followup on my search for a replacement 1T Hard Drive - I finally found a source for the WD10EVVS that still had some in stock. Every other site I tried were out of stock and many stated that this model was discontinued. Western Digital replied that this model was specifically designed for this application and would not recommend a currently available replacement. So, if you plan to make this improvement or want a back-up hard drive, this is the only place that I found that still has them in stock. Get them while they last:


Donald1800

Search Amazon for AV-GP. Any of Western Digitals AV drives should work fine as long as they're at least SATA II, also SATA III is backward compatible with SATA II so they should work also.
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post #14203 of 18360 Old 04-05-2012, 07:35 PM
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After a couple of years of use, I suddenly have a problem accessing recordings (live viewing still works):

Pressing DVR brings up the DVR Main Menu as usual, and both the Daily Schedule and Cancel options work normally. However, choosing My Recordings causes the unit to turn off and after a few seconds start the "loading...please wait" cycle.

I have tried unplugging the power and re-setting to factory defaults, but with no results. After connecting the ethernet cable, it said my software was up to date.

Any suggestions?

Any ideas where I can do more research?

Thanks in advance!
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post #14204 of 18360 Old 04-05-2012, 08:01 PM
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If the recordings are not too important you might try formatting the HDD,
just in case something there has gotten corrupted.
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post #14205 of 18360 Old 04-05-2012, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcrach View Post

Search Amazon for AV-GP. Any of Western Digitals AV drives should work fine as long as they're at least SATA II, also SATA III is backward compatible with SATA II so they should work also.

There is no such requirement for 3 Gbps/ SATA-II,
I used many of SATA-I [WDC] - works fine as it fully compatible with main chip..

If you'll read a specs of STi7109 you will find this:
Quote:


3.20.3 Serial ATA(SATA) ...
All speeds up to 1.5 Gbit/s are supported.

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post #14206 of 18360 Old 04-05-2012, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burtbg View Post

After a couple of years of use, I suddenly have a problem accessing recordings (live viewing still works):

Pressing DVR brings up the DVR Main Menu as usual, and both the Daily Schedule and Cancel options work normally. However, choosing My Recordings causes the unit to turn off and after a few seconds start the "loading...please wait" cycle.

I have tried unplugging the power and re-setting to factory defaults, but with no results. After connecting the ethernet cable, it said my software was up to date.

Any suggestions?

Any ideas where I can do more research?

Thanks in advance!

Sure. As usual: remove the disk, use your PC and free programs MHDD(bootable from CD) or Victoria for Windows. Get SMART data before and after Scan with Remap=On. Post them here.
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post #14207 of 18360 Old 04-06-2012, 12:24 AM
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Or, just replace the HD. The fact that all box functions except DVR functions operate correctly, to me, indicates that the problem is within the HD. You can confirm this by unplugging the HD and rechecking the box operation, a simple test.

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post #14208 of 18360 Old 04-06-2012, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald1800 View Post

Or, just replace the HD. The fact that all box functions except DVR functions operate correctly, to me, indicates that the problem is within the HD. You can confirm this by unplugging the HD and rechecking the box operation, a simple test.

Donald1800

You're underestimate these programs.

If the drive develop a couple bad sectors, by using the method you can safely continue to use the same drive for a few years. Usually number of spare sectors is in 4096 range.
If the drive has other [non-reparable] condition then you will know that after one/two hour test.

I prefer to know reason(s) and be aware of options. Well, it's looks like a motto.
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post #14209 of 18360 Old 04-06-2012, 09:38 AM
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Thanks for the responses.

Does the fact that I can watch something live, and also pause it and jump forward and back provide any more hints to the problem? Re-booting when choosing the My Recordings list seems to be the *only* failure. (It is my, maybe mistaken, understanding that even 'live' watching is really reading from the hard drive.)

Unfortunately, I won't be able to do hard drive removal and test any time soon.
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post #14210 of 18360 Old 04-06-2012, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burtbg View Post

Thanks for the responses.

Does the fact that I can watch something live, and also pause it and jump forward and back provide any more hints to the problem? Re-booting when choosing the My Recordings list seems to be the *only* failure. (It is my, maybe mistaken, understanding that even 'live' watching is really reading from the hard drive.)

Unfortunately, I won't be able to do hard drive removal and test any time soon.

The fact that you can pause and move in a live (buffered) recording says the disk may not be all bad, perhaps just parts of the directory. I agree that the first easy/quick step is to reformat the the disk. You will lose any recordings but it costs nothing, takes only a few minutes and requires no tools or special knowledge. Since it does not take very long (I only did it once) it may not be a low level format, I am not sure.
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post #14211 of 18360 Old 04-06-2012, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillN937 View Post

The fact that you can pause and move in a live (buffered) recording says the disk may not be all bad, perhaps just parts of the directory. I agree that the first easy/quick step is to reformat the the disk. You will lose any recordings but it costs nothing, takes only a few minutes and requires no tools or special knowledge. Since it does not take very long (I only did it once) it may not be a low level format, I am not sure.

Does DTV Pal DVR's format check for bad sectors to mark them?
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post #14212 of 18360 Old 04-06-2012, 10:40 AM
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How do you reformat the HD?
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post #14213 of 18360 Old 04-06-2012, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burtbg View Post

How do you reformat the HD?

I think there is an option in DTV Pal DVR's system menu somewhere. You could also format it on a computer, but I think DTV Pal DVR would reformat it since it is not its own file system.
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post #14214 of 18360 Old 04-06-2012, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burtbg View Post

How do you reformat the HD?

Menu, Setup, System Setup, Diognostics, HDD, Format.
Of course you will lose any recordings you have saved.
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post #14215 of 18360 Old 04-06-2012, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post

Does DTV Pal DVR's format check for bad sectors to mark them?

Nope.

Only other programs like MHDD or Victoria will do.
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post #14216 of 18360 Old 04-06-2012, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillN937 View Post

The fact that you can pause and move in a live (buffered) recording says the disk may not be all bad, perhaps just parts of the directory. I agree that the first easy/quick step is to reformat the the disk. You will lose any recordings but it costs nothing, takes only a few minutes and requires no tools or special knowledge. Since it does not take very long (I only did it once) it may not be a low level format, I am not sure.

a) you'll lost all your recordings - MHDD/Victoria will remap sectors with [readable] content (high chance get it correctly]
b) no special tool required - just download these programs (perhaps make new CD from MHDD ISO)
c) no special knowledge need - just run, press a couple buttons/commands - done
d) no fix will be done by DVR's format, but you'll dump everything what is there
e) one hour spent by the software could save you 100 hrs of recorded events.

The process is simple and doable by anyone who can work on PC.
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post #14217 of 18360 Old 04-06-2012, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

a) you'll lost all your recordings - MHDD/Victoria will remap sectors with [readable] content (high chance get it correctly]
b) no special tool required - just download these programs (perhaps make new CD from MHDD ISO)
c) no special knowledge need - just run, press a couple buttons/commands - done
d) no fix will be done by DVR's format, but you'll dump everything what is there
e) one hour spent by the software could save you 100 hrs of recorded events.

The process is simple and doable by anyone who can work on PC.

I don't say that is not better but I consider burning a CD something some people may not know how to do not to mention that removing the hard drive and installing it in a PC is more than a trivial operation. All easy for someone who is used to working on or building PCs but I choose to assume he wanted something easy to try first before he starts cracking the case open. Depends on how many recordings he has and how bad he wants them.
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post #14218 of 18360 Old 04-06-2012, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post

There is no such requirement for 3 Gbps/ SATA-II,
I used many of SATA-I [WDC] - works fine as it fully compatible with main chip..

If you'll read a specs of STi7109 you will find this:

Just basing that comment on the drive he linked to and what he said WD told him. I stopped opening up my CE equipment out of curiosity a long time ago.
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post #14219 of 18360 Old 04-06-2012, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcrach View Post

Just basing that comment on the drive he linked to and what he said WD told him. I stopped opening up my CE equipment out of curiosity a long time ago.

I wouldn't post so strict requirement "AV drives should work fine as long as they're at least SATA II" if the equipment is unknown to you.
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post #14220 of 18360 Old 04-06-2012, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillN937 View Post

I don't say that is not better but I consider burning a CD something some people may not know how to do not to mention that removing the hard drive and installing it in a PC is more than a trivial operation. All easy for someone who is used to working on or building PCs but I choose to assume he wanted something easy to try first before he starts cracking the case open. Depends on how many recordings he has and how bad he wants them.

Everyone could run a program on PC - so if CD burning (I can't believe in such argument) is not trivial for a person who are worried about his recordings, then run Victoria.
I can't imagine your car would be taking in auto shop without check OBD codes.

As to ability to do something - that's only the poster can say about himself. No need to think he is a 'blonde'.
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