The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 607 - AVS Forum
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post #18181 of 18247 Old 06-24-2014, 02:05 PM
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Good info to know... had I not already invested in EZ Docks. I hope others can learn from it. Your method with that type of external drive would be more desirable to me than handling raw drives.
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post #18182 of 18247 Old 06-25-2014, 10:04 AM
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My DTVPal started to act up... locking up after mins

It's been a while since I've visited here, so sorry if this is a duplicate post.
My DTVPal has been in use for years now. Works great, I record daily with it.


Recently, it just started to stop responding to the remote. Frozen screen, nothing I could to would get it working.
Pull plug, it'd operate for about 3 to 5 minutes, then freeze.


Nothing to lose, thinking maybe the hard drive is failing. Take it apart, according to the instructions here,
and change the HD to bigger model. Put it together, and same thing.


Take it apart again, and start to scrutinize the system boards... I see a couple capacitors kind of bulging.
I knew from Samsung TVs, that overheated caps cause problems. WHat did I have to lose?
I did not have the particular values in my junk box, so paid a few bucks from Amazon and ordered them.
Soldered them in, and what do you know.... All better!


So.. if you are having lockup issues, and are handy with a soldering iron, you might be able to repair a flakey recorder.
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post #18183 of 18247 Old 06-25-2014, 10:21 AM
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Did you use "low ESR" capacitors? That's the type specified for high frequency switching power supplies. Never would have thought about Amazon. I usually order those from Mouser.

Anyway excellent information. I was in the consumer electronics repair biz for almost 30 years, retired from all that in '07, saw plenty of failed capacitors, and have wondered about those used in our 'Pal DVRs, their longevity etc.
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post #18184 of 18247 Old 06-26-2014, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
Did you use "low ESR" capacitors? That's the type specified for high frequency switching power supplies. Never would have thought about Amazon. I usually order those from Mouser.

Anyway excellent information. I was in the consumer electronics repair biz for almost 30 years, retired from all that in '07, saw plenty of failed capacitors, and have wondered about those used in our 'Pal DVRs, their longevity etc.
no I don't even know what "low ESR" means
I'm pretty sure these 2 caps were on the system board, not the power supply unit.

2200uf 10v Capacitor 105c High Temp, Radial Leads
820uf 25v Capacitor 105c High Temp, Radial Leads

They looked exactly like the ones I took out.
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post #18185 of 18247 Old 06-26-2014, 06:55 PM
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Should work fine. Time will tell. It's internal heat buildup that causes the capacitor to swell and maybe vent out the top or sometimes push the rubber seal out the bottom. There are some "low ESR" Nichicon brand capacitors on Amazon too I found, but looks like you have to buy 6, not individually.
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post #18186 of 18247 Old 06-30-2014, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmb1010 View Post
no I don't even know what "low ESR" means
I'm pretty sure these 2 caps were on the system board, not the power supply unit.

2200uf 10v Capacitor 105c High Temp, Radial Leads
820uf 25v Capacitor 105c High Temp, Radial Leads

They looked exactly like the ones I took out.

Great info! I might give that a try if and when I blow those capacitors. One suggestion I would make is to pull that hard drive out of the box and you eliminate a major source of heat inside the cabinet and you also allow for more air to circulate inside. It will run cooler! A number of us have done this and there is guidance in this forum somewhere on how to do it. I did this to 2 of my DTVPAL DVRs and it has helped greatly.
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post #18187 of 18247 Old 06-30-2014, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
Should work fine. Time will tell. It's internal heat buildup that causes the capacitor to swell and maybe vent out the top or sometimes push the rubber seal out the bottom. There are some "low ESR" Nichicon brand capacitors on Amazon too I found, but looks like you have to buy 6, not individually.

What kind of soldering iron does one need to solder these? I never worked with anything but the big irons.
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post #18188 of 18247 Old 06-30-2014, 09:16 AM
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A $20 Weller from Home Depot would do it. But I wouldn't recommend learning first time how to properly de-solder the old parts, replace, and solder in the new ones. It takes some practice.
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post #18189 of 18247 Old 06-30-2014, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post
Great info! I might give that a try if and when I blow those capacitors. One suggestion I would make is to pull that hard drive out of the box and you eliminate a major source of heat inside the cabinet and you also allow for more air to circulate inside. It will run cooler! A number of us have done this and there is guidance in this forum somewhere on how to do it. I did this to 2 of my DTVPAL DVRs and it has helped greatly.
I still haven't opened mine up. I checked through the vents and things looks fairly clean compared to my computers. No major dust covers. Left fan still spins. I can feel air coming out from the right side. So far, so good! Summer is here, so ...
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post #18190 of 18247 Old 06-30-2014, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post
I still haven't opened mine up. I checked through the vents and things looks fairly clean compared to my computers. No major dust covers. Left fan still spins. I can feel air coming out from the right side. So far, so good! Summer is here, so ...
This summer I put a small personal fan set to low a few feet away pointed towards the air intake. Air coming out the right side is much cooler.
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post #18191 of 18247 Old 06-30-2014, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golinux View Post
This summer I put a small personal fan set to low a few feet away pointed towards the air intake. Air coming out the right side is much cooler.
Nice. I was hoping to put my DTV Pal DVR to hibernation for the hot summer, but I have stuff to record and watch!
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post #18192 of 18247 Old 07-01-2014, 05:36 AM
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Same here

I usually put my 2 on vacation and then hook up 2 Iviews but so far I am still watching past recordings on my one DTVPAL and still using it to record stuff that is of interest that comes up on our local PBS and International Mystery programming on MHz network. SO I may never get to hook up my IViews.
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post #18193 of 18247 Old 07-04-2014, 12:51 PM
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Smile Thanks for the pricing suggestion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdchance View Post
If its in good condition with stock remote, you should be able to get $275-300 pretty easy.

I sold my unit which I bought factory direct for $249, used for 3 years, for $299. I probably should have set an even higher buy it now then I did and it probably would have gotten $350 with a little patience on my part.
Hi Guys! I took a chance just now listing it for sale on Amazon! I'm a little nervous because it didn't allow me to edit the main item description like ebay does so hopefully people will know what it does. There was no mention about the guide data being free which probably would help it sell.
Anyway, I took your advice and priced it at $299 with the stock remote, manuals and even threw in a free HDMI cable. It should make someone real happy!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B002CO2HO4


Someone is also selling one along with mine on amazon for $550 with NO hard drive, wow...As I had said originally I'd be real happy to get the $250-300 as suggested on this thread.
Thanks again everyone for the advise! I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Have a happy 4th of July everyone!


Anthony
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post #18194 of 18247 Old 07-04-2014, 05:47 PM
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Why are people buying used (maybe 5 or 6 years) DTVPal DVR's for more than the original price and more than a new CM DVR+ with a two week guide and some are close to a Tivo price. What am I missing?
I have four units - 2 running from day one - the other 2 with little sporadic use. I am considering the dvr+ for when one of my old units fail - I do not want a 5 year old DTVPal for a higher price.
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post #18195 of 18247 Old 07-04-2014, 06:28 PM
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People can ask whatever price they want. What they SELL for is maybe another thing. Looking at recent DTVPal DVR "Sold listings" on e-bay since May, seven altogether, sold from $100-185. I would always suggest starting high you can always relist it if it doesn't sell. Maybe you'll get lucky like someone in April who sold one for $305.
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post #18196 of 18247 Old 07-05-2014, 12:37 PM
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Thumbs up You make a good point but no extra stuff needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by bernieoc View Post
Why are people buying used (maybe 5 or 6 years) DTVPal DVR's for more than the original price and more than a new CM DVR+ with a two week guide and some are close to a Tivo price. What am I missing?
I have four units - 2 running from day one - the other 2 with little sporadic use. I am considering the dvr+ for when one of my old units fail - I do not want a 5 year old DTVPal for a higher price.
Hi Bernieoc!
Thanks for the reply! You do make a good point about newer units being an option and I just want to give my thoughts on this subject.
With an older DTVPal like the one I am currently trying to sell on Amazon the hard drive is included in the price for one thing, so a dvr+ will require you to spend more money on an external hard drive to connect to it, so that would make a used unit more competitive for one thing, secondly the older unit has more video outputs over the newer dvr+ so it can be used with any type tv, RF output and composite and component video outputs (this allows an easy way to send a copy to a dvd recorder for permanent backup) compared to the DVR+ having only an HDMI output.
And lastly, you never know with new electronics whether they'll hold out for long term durability, were a working used unit has already gone threw actual usage and is proven to be well made an working reliably, chances are it will continue to do so for many years to come. Newer electronics aren't always build for better durability sometimes they are redesigned to save money and drop the price.


Having said that, I do agree I shouldn't have priced it more than I originally paid, I agree with you on that!
I had asked what they were going for on here before deciding on a fair price but I see now perhaps I asked for too much?


So I will drop my price on Amazon to a more reasonable $229! That is $70 less and considering it already includes the hard drive needed for storage that the dvr+ doesn't and has already proven it is well constructed and has video outputs the dvr+ doesn't perhaps this will now make it more competitive to anyone currently shopping for a 2 tuner DVR (with free guide data) option.


Thank You very much for your feedback bernieoc, It was helpful to me in deciding to drop my asking price!
Sincerely Anthony
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post #18197 of 18247 Old 07-06-2014, 03:52 AM
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"...Why are people buying used (maybe 5 or 6 years) DTVPal DVR's for more than the original price and more than a new CM DVR+ with a two week guide and some are close to a Tivo price. What am I missing?..."


bernieoc:
It is my opinion that a DVR+ running a solid brick powered AV HDD and the latest firmware update is still inferior to a PalDVR running an external brick powered AV HDD AND PSIP guide. The PalDVR has far superior tuners, more functions, is more user friendly, and has a deeper and wider (more practical) guide, even with it's limitations and needed work arounds, therefore superior to the Rovi guide with questionable life span. Unless and until the DVR+ has these tuner and functional upgrades, the DVR+ will still be in lower demand or less preferred by knowledgeable users than the PalDVR. In this case, newer is not better - only more available and less expensive.
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Last edited by Donald1800; 07-06-2014 at 04:01 AM.
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post #18198 of 18247 Old 07-06-2014, 05:58 AM
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Donald1800,


Agree with your comments. If it was still being sold it would outsell the DTV+. For all the reasons you give plus some others. The DTV+ does offer a few advantages no doubt but overall the DTVPAL while an older product line is a better value.
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post #18199 of 18247 Old 07-06-2014, 01:56 PM
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PalDvr

I am still using my PalDvr, had pre-ordered it from the beginning. I do love that box, but when Rovie (or who ever supplied the guide data) dropped it's support, the box stopped being very functional for me. The time is always off and the PSIP guide data is almost useless. Now, I only use it as a tuner. I have been struggling to find an economical device to replace it with a full guide and FREE guide data. I have finally found a solution for what I am looking for. My set up is not for the plug and play crowd, it is for the dedicated hobbyist. I am adding a link to my setup just for information, I am not a seller or pushing any of these devices. It is just a way that I found to replace my PalDvr that I love, or loved so much.
I apologize if this is considered spam.
here a couple of links.



maybe one more

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post #18200 of 18247 Old 07-07-2014, 08:42 AM
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I could not get XBMC to work right under FreeBSD so I am using WMC with Windows 7 and am happy with that but not cheap. This is not the HTPC thread so enough of that.

The only thing wrong with the DTVPal-DVR is the fact that ROVI stopped sending TVGOS OTA so mine is not for sale even though I unplugged it.

The question is: what would be the market if some clever person could build a little box, maybe with a Raspberry Pi or something that could interface with the internet and create a TVGOS like signal that would revitalize all our DVRs? Beyond my skill set but I believe it is doable, don't know if it would be cost effective.
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post #18201 of 18247 Old 07-07-2014, 10:54 AM
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No TVGOS?

I can't understand how you could find your DTVPAL DVRS no longer useable because TVGOS went away. It was a nice feature but by no means all that big of a deal when it went away. It does not impede my setting up recordings whether recurring or one time.


My 2 are running full time and stuffed with recordings during the fall winter and spring.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post
I can't understand how you could find your DTVPAL DVRS no longer useable because TVGOS went away. It was a nice feature but by no means all that big of a deal when it went away. It does not impede my setting up recordings whether recurring or one time.


My 2 are running full time and stuffed with recordings during the fall winter and spring.
Ditto. Just use DVR with its limited guide and manually record like an old school VCR. It's not that bad!
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post #18203 of 18247 Old 07-07-2014, 11:28 AM
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And how often do you have to reset the clock so the recordings start and stop on time. Also, without a decent guide, how do you select the shows you wish to watch or record? You can't do a search since the data is so limited. With my setup, the guide is even better than any other system I have tried, including comcast and uverse.
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post #18204 of 18247 Old 07-07-2014, 01:13 PM
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I don't really miss TVGOS and its own problems. The clocks on my two Pal DVRs automatically stay within 15 seconds + or - of actual time. And I normally set a timer for an individual program to record later in the day, or have recurring timer set to M-F on nightly programs. Have two PalDVRs in daily use and a 3rd in reserve for backup.
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post #18205 of 18247 Old 07-07-2014, 01:44 PM
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I agree with LenL. I know that the PSIP guide is updated every three hours at 10, 1, 4, 7 Standard Time and 1 hour later DST. So, every time I turn on the PalDVR I go through a guide grid loading by checking which channels list "No Information" 8-9 hrs. away, then 'visit' each of these channels for 15 sec. from display before going to the next channel. If the guide still does not display desired channel program descriptive information at the top/left, 'visit' that channel again for 15 sec. and the info should appear. Now you have a full guide to work with. Remember that the second tuner is used to automatically refill the guide, so if you are viewing DVR recordings during this guide refilling period which uses this second tuner, then the guide does not get refilled/updated, and the above manual refilling will be necessary.


I know that this is a work-around for using the PSIP program data for guide loading - and it is a bit of a pain - but it does make the PSIP guide usable and the PalDVR an enjoyable programming device.


I hope that this info. will allow other PalDVR users to enjoy more fully their video recorder.
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post #18206 of 18247 Old 07-08-2014, 06:41 AM
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Great tips/points Donald1800! Also Phildaant thanks for your insight.


It could be that for those of us in large city markets (I'm close to NY City) our DTVPALs are getting lots of stations and decent guide data to work with. It is still a pleasure to use and MUCH better than a VCR to set up recordings.....not sure I agree with your (PhilDannT) comparsion there, but like any electronics there are people who have issues with this DVR and s##t happens.


I am one of the fortunate ones. By the way had a fire at my house on 4/4 and my 2 DTVPALS were in the 1/3 of the house that was destroyed with fire, smoke and water and that part of the house had to be rebuilt from the ground up. Never thought my 2 units could have survived. When I was finally able to check them out (8-9 weeks after the fire) I had some major cleaning of the insides to do and the fans were covered in soot. However to my surprise they both fired up and have run trouble free so far. The hard drives were in external metal enclosures that I think protected them better as they were fairly unscathed from the event. My 2 units may have shortened life spans as a result but so far they are fine.
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post #18207 of 18247 Old 07-08-2014, 12:31 PM
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillN937 View Post
...
The question is: what would be the market if some clever person could build a little box, maybe with a Raspberry Pi or something that could interface with the internet and create a TVGOS like signal that would revitalize all our DVRs? Beyond my skill set but I believe it is doable, don't know if it would be cost effective.
It's doable, but not that way as using external gadget.

The DVR's OS is robust enough to accommodate another piece of code to fetch ROVI EPG from Internet (as K77 doing).

It's matter of e* company.

Perhaps Kickstart could be employ, but you'll need to convince the company or its OTA FW department to move in the direction and give the price and commit to the goal.

Call your senator for sign a petition to FCC/e* for adapt old FW of TR-50 to new realm (ROVI's movement out of OTA to Internet when providing EPG data)
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post #18208 of 18247 Old 07-08-2014, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkss12 View Post
And how often do you have to reset the clock so the recordings start and stop on time. [remainder truncated].
If your unit is on the F208 firmware, use the remote to do 2 soft reboots back-to-back and you should discover your DTVPal-DVR stays synchronized with local time. The time algorithms may still result in a few or even several seconds offset to so-called "atomic" local time, but the drifting you're observing should stop.

Even though this is one gigantic thread, it's a good idea to familiarize yourself with Post #1 and also search for later posts on clock drift and the DVR's built-in diagnostics screens for more details like identifying stations whose PSIP times are so far off that it skews the DVR's time, and if needed, how to use the remote to do a soft reboot.
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post #18209 of 18247 Old 07-09-2014, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
...

It's matter of e* company.

....
Technically your approach is superior but not touching the DVR avoids any legal issues or people whining that "your patch broke my DVR" which is why I suggest going Rube Goldberg. As a side benefit there are owners of Sony TVs and perhaps others that are TVGOS enabled that are potential customers but I expect most get their guide from the cable company.

The concept of OTA HDTV seems to be foreign to people still. Lately I have seen ads for a "new" invention, a "magic" HDTV antenna that allows you to get free high definition television. I bet they are selling a bunch to people who don't have a clue.
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post #18210 of 18247 Old 07-09-2014, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernieoc View Post
Why are people buying used (maybe 5 or 6 years) DTVPal DVR's for more than the original price and more than a new CM DVR+ with a two week guide and some are close to a Tivo price. What am I missing?
I have four units - 2 running from day one - the other 2 with little sporadic use. I am considering the dvr+ for when one of my old units fail - I do not want a 5 year old DTVPal for a higher price.
Hi, new to the forums, I have the freezing issue and luckily a degree in electronics (I'm old school, eh) so I think I'll poke around inside to get it working again. I got mine from the pre-order days and I swapped out the drive within the first year or two. Right now, it has the WD "green" (can't remember the model number) 1TB drive in it. Works perfectly.

I was debating an "upgrade" to the ChannelMaster DVR+ plus device, but at $250 for the device and then another $100 (average) for the external drive, you are looking at a $350 investment.

So my question, would anyone here buy the DTVPal that I have for $250? The original cost of the device + the added bonus of the 1TB drive upgrade? If I fix the freezing issues first, of course.
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