The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 608 - AVS Forum
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HDTV Recorders > The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic!
JHBrandt's Avatar JHBrandt 12:57 PM 07-09-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillN937 View Post
The question is: what would be the market if some clever person could build a little box, maybe with a Raspberry Pi or something that could interface with the internet and create a TVGOS like signal that would revitalize all our DVRs? Beyond my skill set but I believe it is doable, don't know if it would be cost effective.
Personally I'd love it. But this was discussed back when Rovi first dropped OTA TVGOS, and IIRC the consensus was that it wasn't practical for a couple of reasons.

First, Rovi's TVGOS metadata packets were encrypted and proprietary, and I don't think anyone ever successfully reverse-engineered their protocol. So you'd need Rovi to release the documentation for it. It's unlikely they'd ever do that since they probably still use some of the same techniques to protect their current Internet-based offerings. You'd probably have better luck stripping each station's PSIP and replacing it with your own expanded version than you would trying to recreate Rovi's OTA TVGOS!

But even then, you'd need to create an ATSC RF signal to get the data into the Pal. That would require an 8VSB modulator (like TV stations use), and those aren't cheap. (Digital QAM modulators are available for a few hundred $$, but unfortunately the Pal can't demodulate QAM.)

phildaant's Avatar phildaant 01:01 PM 07-09-2014
Quote:
(Digital QAM modulators are available for a few hundred $$, but unfortunately the Pal can't demodulate QAM.)
And QAM is going away from cable companies. Thanks FCC.
P Smith's Avatar P Smith 02:29 PM 07-09-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Personally I'd love it. But this was discussed back when Rovi first dropped OTA TVGOS, and IIRC the consensus was that it wasn't practical for a couple of reasons.

First, Rovi's TVGOS metadata packets were encrypted and proprietary, and I don't think anyone ever successfully reverse-engineered their protocol. So you'd need Rovi to release the documentation for it. It's unlikely they'd ever do that since they probably still use some of the same techniques to protect their current Internet-based offerings. You'd probably have better luck stripping each station's PSIP and replacing it with your own expanded version than you would trying to recreate Rovi's OTA TVGOS!

But even then, you'd need to create an ATSC RF signal to get the data into the Pal. That would require an 8VSB modulator (like TV stations use), and those aren't cheap. (Digital QAM modulators are available for a few hundred $$, but unfortunately the Pal can't demodulate QAM.)
It just come to my mind - man! how many 8VSB transmitters I must feed by captured from Internet EPG ? It must be done for each station on your market, as the TR-50 scanning each registered freq for PSIP and ROVI (if you set it that way)!
There is no such practical solution for owners of TR-50, but adding the feature into its FW.
P Smith's Avatar P Smith 02:36 PM 07-09-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathAdder666 View Post
Hi, new to the forums, I have the freezing issue and luckily a degree in electronics (I'm old school, eh) so I think I'll poke around inside to get it working again. I got mine from the pre-order days and I swapped out the drive within the first year or two. Right now, it has the WD "green" (can't remember the model number) 1TB drive in it. Works perfectly.

I was debating an "upgrade" to the ChannelMaster DVR+ plus device, but at $250 for the device and then another $100 (average) for the external drive, you are looking at a $350 investment.

So my question, would anyone here buy the DTVPal that I have for $250? The original cost of the device + the added bonus of the 1TB drive upgrade? If I fix the freezing issues first, of course.
If you are lucky (then buy a lotto ticket ! ) then after changing dying HDD it could works w/out "freezing", but I'm doubt if it's the cause.
Seen many such DVRs with the symptom, I'm not that optimistic as before.

Post SMART data of your current WD here, it would be interesting to see if it will report some issue beforehand.
The program is good and will make easy to read TXT report : http://gsmartcontrol.sourceforge.net/home/
Aleron Ives's Avatar Aleron Ives 04:02 PM 07-09-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by phildaant View Post
And QAM is going away from cable companies. Thanks FCC.
QAM isn't going away... it's just getting encrypted.
phildaant's Avatar phildaant 04:07 PM 07-09-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post
QAM isn't going away... it's just getting encrypted.
Ah. OK, unencrypted QAM is going away.
Dobs's Avatar Dobs 07:34 PM 07-09-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmb1010 View Post


Recently, it just started to stop responding to the remote. Frozen screen, nothing I could to would get it working.
Pull plug, it'd operate for about 3 to 5 minutes, then freeze.
I started having similar problems starting a couple months ago. Up until then it has been rock solid, but all of a sudden I started getting frequent audio dropouts and freeze ups. Sometimes it would freeze up after a few minutes of use (or in some cases even during the channel scan at startup) and sometimes I could get it to go 45 minutes or so before it froze. I've since purchased a DVR+ to replace it (which I prefer over the Pal, but that is besides the point). I would like to see if I can salvage it before I throw it out. Any ideas? I took it apart to look for any bulging capacitors and everything appears normal. I've even set it up in my basement (where it is significantly cooler) and tried running it with the cover off to give it more airflow and it still froze up on me. Any other ideas?
ed_in_tx's Avatar ed_in_tx 07:53 PM 07-09-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobs View Post
.. all of a sudden I started getting frequent audio dropouts and freeze ups. Sometimes it would freeze up after a few minutes of use ... I took it apart to look for any bulging capacitors and everything appears normal.
Capacitors don't necessarily have to be bulging to be bad. A capacitor tester with ESR test would help track down the bad caps on the boards, if that's the problem.

Have you tested it with another HDD?
P Smith's Avatar P Smith 09:55 PM 07-09-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobs View Post
I started having similar problems starting a couple months ago. Up until then it has been rock solid, but all of a sudden I started getting frequent audio dropouts and freeze ups. Sometimes it would freeze up after a few minutes of use (or in some cases even during the channel scan at startup) and sometimes I could get it to go 45 minutes or so before it froze. I've since purchased a DVR+ to replace it (which I prefer over the Pal, but that is besides the point). I would like to see if I can salvage it before I throw it out. Any ideas? I took it apart to look for any bulging capacitors and everything appears normal. I've even set it up in my basement (where it is significantly cooler) and tried running it with the cover off to give it more airflow and it still froze up on me. Any other ideas?
I did share my ideas and my experience here a few times, but seems to me no one bothered to searching and reading, so I'm give up.
Dobs's Avatar Dobs 06:42 AM 07-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
Capacitors don't necessarily have to be bulging to be bad. A capacitor tester with ESR test would help track down the bad caps on the boards, if that's the problem.

Have you tested it with another HDD?
It still has the original factory harddrive in it. I have tried reformatting it and also did a factory reset on the device itself. I think my next step is to remove the harddrive from the enclosure to see if that helps. At this point I'm just trying to figure out if there is any permanent damage done to the device or not (I am thinking so since it never used to do this and now it is consistently doing it). I don't have any desire to put a lot of time or money in trying to fix it if that is the case. But something simple like removing the harddrive or maybe blowing an external fan into it I could handle. What do you think the odds of that working are?
Chuck44's Avatar Chuck44 10:01 AM 07-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobs View Post
I started having similar problems starting a couple months ago. Up until then it has been rock solid, but all of a sudden I started getting frequent audio dropouts and freeze ups. Sometimes it would freeze up after a few minutes of use (or in some cases even during the channel scan at startup) and sometimes I could get it to go 45 minutes or so before it froze. I've since purchased a DVR+ to replace it (which I prefer over the Pal, but that is besides the point). I would like to see if I can salvage it before I throw it out. Any ideas? I took it apart to look for any bulging capacitors and everything appears normal. I've even set it up in my basement (where it is significantly cooler) and tried running it with the cover off to give it more airflow and it still froze up on me. Any other ideas?
You should not run it with the cover off for long periods of time.
With the cover off the air from the cooling fan cannot cool the components.
ed_in_tx's Avatar ed_in_tx 04:39 PM 07-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
I did share my ideas and my experience here a few times, but seems to me no one bothered to searching and reading, so I'm give up.
Maybe you could then suggest some search parameters to help people find your information buried in some 18,000+ posts...
ccrider2's Avatar ccrider2 07:11 PM 07-10-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
Maybe you could then suggest some search parameters to help people find your information buried in some 18,000+ posts...

Try using GOOGLE site search. AVSForum is stuck with the search built into the sw, but using Google is much more powerful.
ed_in_tx's Avatar ed_in_tx 07:09 AM 07-11-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrider2 View Post
Try using GOOGLE site search. AVSForum is stuck with the search built into the sw, but using Google is much more powerful.
I usually use Google Advanced or site search. I was asking about specific search details to narrow it down. Might be handy for people not familiar with problems these may have, until it happens.
WillN937's Avatar WillN937 04:00 PM 07-11-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
... That would require an 8VSB modulator (like TV stations use), and those aren't cheap. ...)
Did a little web search and you are correct. We are talking thousands.
JHBrandt's Avatar JHBrandt 04:02 PM 07-14-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobs View Post
It still has the original factory hard drive in it. I've tried reformatting it and also did a factory reset on the device itself. I think my next step is to remove the hard drive from the enclosure to see if that helps. At this point I'm just trying to figure out if there is any permanent damage done to the device or not (I am thinking so since it never used to do this and now it is consistently doing it). I don't have any desire to put a lot of time or money in trying to fix it if that is the case. But something simple like removing the hard drive or maybe blowing an external fan into it I could handle. What do you think the odds of that working are?
Well, you've tried the obvious (factory defaults reset). Since you've opened it up, I assume you've also tried cleaning the dust out of it (in case something's overheating).

The main thing left to try is a different HDD. Anything beyond that is probably more trouble than it's worth. But at least you can salvage the HDD even if you decide to junk the Pal.
Jack Morris's Avatar Jack Morris 06:33 PM 07-14-2014
I have four Dish DTV Pal DVRs and all of them have either gone out or are in the process of doing so.

The problem is apparently with the HDMI output board on the units?

It begins to flash and flash and then stops working all together.
When you unplug and do a hard reboot, it works again for awhile and then flashes for awhile and then just stops displaying an image on the HDTV.

I have one newer Channel Master unit which is still working but is starting to display the same problems more often now....

Has anyone else had this problem or something similar to this?
I have replaced the HD on a few of these boxes thinking that it was the HD going out but found out the HD was fine after replacing it and seeing the same problem with the box while the HD runs fine outside it.

Thanks for any and all help you can offer!!!
Jack
P Smith's Avatar P Smith 06:56 PM 07-14-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Morris View Post
I have four Dish DTV Pal DVRs and all of them have either gone out or are in the process of doing so.

The problem is apparently with the HDMI output board on the units?

It begins to flash and flash and then stops working all together.
When you unplug and do a hard reboot, it works again for awhile and then flashes for awhile and then just stops displaying an image on the HDTV.

I have one newer Channel Master unit which is still working but is starting to display the same problems more often now....

Has anyone else had this problem or something similar to this?
I have replaced the HD on a few of these boxes thinking that it was the HD going out but found out the HD was fine after replacing it and seeing the same problem with the box while the HD runs fine outside it.

Thanks for any and all help you can offer!!!
Jack
that's something new ... I've deal with 50 at least and never seen such problem. I'm pretty sure it's your TV or HDMI switch or AVR.

Oh, yeah ! "HD" is acronym of HiDef, while HDD is using for drives
Jack Morris's Avatar Jack Morris 07:02 PM 07-14-2014
Err, it is actually 3 different HDTVs using HDMI inputs. Tried what I could think of including changing cables, HDTVs, connected pcs etc and I came to the conclusion that the HDMI board is at fault.... maybe?

And no problem mr smith.... I have been an expert user of this stuff from the way back days of Mike and ROn at HTF.
I Know how to test stuff and was a beta tester of gear for many years prior to this post... doh. sorry.
P Smith's Avatar P Smith 07:07 PM 07-14-2014
Jack, then look at your devices, perhaps you got floating ground on some device and damaged HDMI output of many TR-50s

BTW, you didn't explain how all the broken DVRs connected to your TV or TVs

And, no - there is no HDMI board/chip inside of TR-50, just output from CPU and some protection components (mostly clamping diodes)
Jack Morris's Avatar Jack Morris 07:13 PM 07-14-2014
Okay thanks...

These unit are ONLY in my home in which I no longer live but in which my (soon to be) ex wife does. She is an idiot with regard to anything tech so she might have done something to screw up the dvrs?

As it is.... what could she do to make the DVR start to flash and then go black with regard to her image on the HDTV?

You will save me alot of money if I can return my home to what she got when I move out.......

Thanks,
Jack
P Smith's Avatar P Smith 07:17 PM 07-14-2014
I would expect an invitation for one evening with a bottle of cognac then ...

Such troubleshooting must be done on place not by phone or Internet chat, sorry.
Need use DMM for start to check proper ground of all components include power strip and stock dual power outlets...
Jack Morris's Avatar Jack Morris 07:20 PM 07-14-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
Jack, then look at your devices, perhaps you got floating ground on some device and damaged HDMI output of many TR-50s

BTW, you didn't explain how all the broken DVRs connected to your TV or TVs

And, no - there is no HDMI board/chip inside of TR-50, just output from CPU and some protection components (mostly clamping diodes)
So.... they are all good but need good diagnostic help?
Jack Morris's Avatar Jack Morris 07:23 PM 07-14-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Morris View Post
So.... they are all good but need good diagnostic help?
Lmk ....
P Smith's Avatar P Smith 07:36 PM 07-14-2014
by quick logic conclusion: no - no need to test;
if CPU and clamping diodes are OK for first minute each connection/reset, then I would look around for other source of the problem ...
LenL's Avatar LenL 06:55 AM 07-16-2014
Since all of these units are YOUR problem to fix and don't work, why not take one of YOUR non working units from the house your soon to be exwife lives in and take to where you live and hook it to your TV or a friends TV and see how it behaves.


This issue you are presenting to us seems all too strange to be a problem caused by the DTVPAL DVRs all failing at the same time with an issue that has not come up before on this forum. I suspect something with the environment....maybe a voodoo spell your wife has cast on the units to get your blood pressure up?
ed_in_tx's Avatar ed_in_tx 06:38 PM 07-16-2014
Just as a test, did you check the composite video output to see if it flashes and goes black too?
bernieoc's Avatar bernieoc 09:27 AM 07-17-2014
A question that has probably been answered - but hard to find.
I have three units each with external hard drive in a their dock.
Can I take a drive from one unit and put it in another unit - and have it think it belongs and access recordings in the normal manner?
P Smith's Avatar P Smith 10:59 AM 07-17-2014
Yes,np
anant's Avatar anant 01:08 PM 07-17-2014
I currently have 4 working DVRs each with a different remote address. I have one DVR assigned to the pal button and one DVR assigned to the aux button on remote #1 . Does anyone know if I can assign the other DVRs to the TV and VCR buttons on the same remote as the first two units? Using the same procedure: hold the desired button down till all buttons light, punch in desired remote address, press #, press record?
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