The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 618 - AVS Forum
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post #18511 of 18540 Old 11-11-2014, 06:24 AM
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Welcome!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Well, I've been working with a new DVR+ for a few weeks. In a lot of ways it's nice, but I've just never been able to get comfortable with it.

So I've been watching eBay, and finally found a decent deal on a DTVPal. After last time, you'd think I'd learn.

The thing arrived today. First sign of trouble: it came from a pawn shop and was packed in crumpled-up newspaper, in a Bud Light box! Obviously someone had pawned it and the pawn shop was dumping it.

Unlike my last attempt, this one's a true DTVPal, not the CM version. F208 firmware. And it came with one of those useless smart cards taped to the case. Second sign of trouble: the smart card wouldn't go back into the slot. This must've had some pretty rough handling.

Oh, well, I thought; might as well set it up. So I hooked it up and did a factory defaults reset. Third sign of trouble, the "loading...please wait" throbber kept stopping and starting.

I'd seen that symptom before. It's trouble with the HDD. Sure enough, once I finished the setup, the audio and video kept freezing, presumably as the Pal was trying to buffer it.

OK, I thought; I was going to open it up and swap out the HDD anyway. So I unplugged it, gave it a few minutes for its old HDD to spin down (don't know why since it's obviously bad), then got out the old cotter pins, opened it up, and put in the HDD from my old Pal.

And what do you know - it worked! Well, at least so far....

Anyway, I'm back in the land of two-Pal households. At least as long as neither one craps out on my again. But I'm keeping the DVR+ for the day that happens.

Back to the DTVPAL 2 PAL owner household! However you were the guy who taught me to pull the drive out and go external! So what are you doing pulling the drive and putting another one back in!


Also as a DVR+ owner like you and using the DTVPAL and DVR+ side by side you and I get to see the good points and warts of both units. Appearance wise I really like the smaller size of the DVR+. I don't like the smaller size of the remote nor the use of button batteries which are very expensive compared to AAA or AA. Function wise there is a lot to like and some to dislike about both.


I think you are also an IVIEW3500 owner like me too!


Enjoy!
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post #18512 of 18540 Old 11-11-2014, 09:32 AM
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I only mounted the drive internally to confirm it fixed the problems I was having. Once I was confident it was working OK, I re-mounted it externally as with my other Pal. Still works fine - and I can access all my old recordings again!

For me the main advantage of the Pal over the DVR+ is how the Pal handles back-to-back recordings, especially since neither has a "GoTo" function like the iView (so you can't just do a two-show recording and "GoTo" the second show). But do I like the DVR+'s name-based recordings, especially given the haphazard way PBS schedules repeats of their shows.

(Actually, I own a Homeworx, but I loaded iView firmware so I could use iView's remote. So it's basically an iView without the display.)
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post #18513 of 18540 Old 11-11-2014, 07:56 PM
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I no longer own a DTVPal. Could some kind soul who owns a DTVPal try this out for me, please? Create a recording. Let it record for a couple of minutes. Now start playback of the recording. Next, press the 30 second skip forward button until you have less than 30 seconds left. At this point if you skip forward once more can you tell me exactly what happens? Do you get into "live tv" (or whatever it's called) mode or are you still in playback mode but at the end of the buffer? The distinction to me is important: since if I exit from the recording and come back later I want to pick up where I left off - presumably if I'm in "live tv" mode I've lost my "resume maker".

Thanks!

Russell
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post #18514 of 18540 Old 11-11-2014, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell_ View Post
...I exit from the recording and come back later I want to pick up where I left off - presumably if I'm in "live tv" mode I've lost my "resume maker".


Russell
I just tried that. Recorded about 15 min, while still recording began playback, Skip Forward to Live TV, changed to a different channel let the recording mode go a few more minutes and went to My Recordings and Resume is grayed out. Can only start from the beginning. I can see how that would be handy.
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post #18515 of 18540 Old 11-11-2014, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
I just tried that. Recorded about 15 min, while still recording began playback, Skip Forward to Live TV, changed to a different channel let the recording mode go a few more minutes and went to My Recordings and Resume is grayed out. Can only start from the beginning. I can see how that would be handy.
If you fast forward to the present time then you are correct about what happens when you move away from the show, however if you want to be able to go back to that spot all you have to do is hit the pause button for a couple of seconds and then change channels or whatever you were going to do. That way you will be able to resume at the spot you stopped watching.
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post #18516 of 18540 Old 11-12-2014, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmn1 View Post
If you fast forward to the present time .... all you have to do is hit the pause button for a couple of seconds and then change channels or whatever you were going to do. That way you will be able to resume at the spot you stopped watching.
Learned another new trick! I hope that helps Russell if he gets another Pal DVR and anyone else.
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post #18517 of 18540 Old 11-12-2014, 07:45 AM
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Sometimes a little knowledge is a wonderful thing!

My DTVPal DVR has been missing the last minute of shows for the past month or more (I won't use the end padding option because it makes the Pal very unreliable when trying to record using both tuners). The reason was that its clock was 1 minute fast. I used the diagnostics to isolate the problem to WGTW in Philly (TSID=2001 correlated via rabbitears.tv), with their clock being 3 minutes fast. Called them this morning and asked for the engineering department; apparently I already HAD the engineer because I told him about the 3 minute discrepancy and within minutes the clock was correct. Forced the Pal to reboot and clock is now spot on!

Apparently the +3 minutes was not far enough off for the PAL to consider it an outlier, so when it got averaged in, it threw the PAL clock off by one minute.

Many thanks to this forum for explaining how to find and fix problems like this.
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post #18518 of 18540 Old 11-12-2014, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmn1 View Post
If you fast forward to the present time then you are correct about what happens when you move away from the show, however if you want to be able to go back to that spot all you have to do is hit the pause button for a couple of seconds and then change channels or whatever you were going to do. That way you will be able to resume at the spot you stopped watching.
I just recently discovered this trick myself . . .
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post #18519 of 18540 Old 11-12-2014, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frank70 View Post
My DTVPal DVR has been missing the last minute of shows for the past month or more ...
Apparently the +3 minutes was not far enough off for the PAL to consider it an outlier, so when it got averaged in, it threw the PAL clock off by one minute...
We must have a station like that here in DFW. Both my Pal DVRs have consistently been 40 sec fast for a month at least. Maybe since the DST glitch for a day back in October.
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post #18520 of 18540 Old 11-12-2014, 03:50 PM
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I know K31GL is off, but it's off by over an hour so it's probably down-weighted and not factored into the average.
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post #18521 of 18540 Old 11-13-2014, 10:09 AM
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A new one for me: One Pal is showing 5:03PM when it's 11:03AM! The other one is OK. I have an auto-tune timer set up to tune at 11AM and it worked. Went into setup installation Time Zone and it somehow got set to Eastern, which wouldn't account for +6 hours ahead, set to Central and it corrected to the right time. Weird. Still running almost a minute fast though.



Last edited by ed_in_tx; 11-13-2014 at 11:36 AM.
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post #18522 of 18540 Old 11-13-2014, 11:21 AM
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Sounds like somehow it got set to GMT internally. There's no external setting for GMT so it probably just displayed the default time zone (Eastern).

Which makes me wonder: do Pals have an Atlantic time zone (for Canada) or were they strictly for the US?
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post #18523 of 18540 Old 11-13-2014, 11:34 AM
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GMT would account for the 6 hours. But how it got that way....?

btw looks like you can delete a post in Advanced editing.
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post #18524 of 18540 Old 11-14-2014, 07:35 AM
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Just in the past week or so, tuned to KDFW Ch 4 and NO AUDIO! Change channels and back to 4, I have audio. OK if watching live, not so if watching a recording, had no audio all they way through a recording. Nothing I do (so far) makes it come back if it's recorded that way, switching SAP, nope, nothing.
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post #18525 of 18540 Old 11-14-2014, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
Just in the past week or so, tuned to KDFW Ch 4 and NO AUDIO! Change channels and back to 4, I have audio. OK if watching live, not so if watching a recording, had no audio all they way through a recording. Nothing I do (so far) makes it come back if it's recorded that way, switching SAP, nope, nothing.
I get something like this also, but only on the ABC station. They have slight audio breakups and sometime the audio is gone completely. I hit the "skip back" button and the audio is back. Think I have the same problem occcure when watching through my Dish Network. I'll keep an eye out.

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post #18526 of 18540 Old 11-14-2014, 10:21 AM
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I've had it happen on other stations but I think for Fox 4 KDFW this is a new occurrence.

I have several of the old Jay Leno Tonight shows saved, just one audio channel will play. Go to local commercials, both OK. Back to network missing one channel. Then other times watching Ch 5's 11 AM news, all OK until they switch to a commercial, maybe no sound, but usually OK. Screwy audio...

Thought it might be a HDMI handshake problem, but does it through the analog audio outs too.


Never have had a problem with the audio with the Dish 722 receiver I have. But the other night the red Rec light got stuck ON and it was not recording, only way I could get it to turn OFF was set both tuners recording something, then stop them both, and the light went off. But I digress...
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post #18527 of 18540 Old 11-14-2014, 10:46 AM
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JHBrandt:

If I remember correctly there was no Atlantic Canada time zone, and in my case, being in Newfoundland , another 1/2 hour ahead of that zone! I used to have the time set 1.5 hours off to be able to see the program (PSIP) guide display at the same time as the actual program....

The new DVR+ that I started using last year has the correct time zones for all....much nicer for those of us off the beaten track!

Cheers,
P.E.H.
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post #18528 of 18540 Old 11-14-2014, 11:46 AM
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That's what I thought. The Pal works in any ATSC country, including Canada; but it wasn't designed with Canada in mind.

I do think the manufacturers are getting smarter though. Not only does the new DVR+ support Canada (but no French language choice for Quebec? Go figure), the little one-tuner iView DVRs do too - including your Newfoundland time zone.
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post #18529 of 18540 Old 11-14-2014, 07:27 PM
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"...Just in the past week or so, tuned to KDFW Ch 4 and NO AUDIO! Change channels and back to 4, I have audio. OK if watching live, not so if watching a recording, had no audio all they way through a recording. Nothing I do (so far) makes it come back if it's recorded that way, switching SAP, nope, nothing..."


I personally think that it is a station problem. I recently played a previously recorded "Nashville" program that exhibited two different audio problems -added voiceover for the visually impaired and a commercial with no audio, repeated consecutively with the same results. I consider these as random and rare station glitches caused be incompetent station employees.
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post #18530 of 18540 Old 11-15-2014, 08:44 AM
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Well at least the clocks are within 5 sec of the real time now.

One 'Pal is -5, the other is +5 seconds. Earlier this week and for the past month or so they've been running 40-50 sec fast.
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post #18531 of 18540 Old 11-17-2014, 08:26 AM
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Corrupted DTVPAL DVR

I have had 4 yrs of good experience with a TR50 DTVPal DVR with F208 upgrade. Recently the software became corrupted (freezes up a few times a night). Unplugging and rebooting gets it to restart, but then it freezes up again. When I try to reinstall the F208 upgrade from a thumb drive the unit responds that it already has the upgrade and will not install it. Is there any way that I can uninstall the corrupted version so that I can reinstall the good one?
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post #18532 of 18540 Old 11-17-2014, 08:40 AM
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Sounds more like (maybe) hard drive or capacitor problems.
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post #18533 of 18540 Old 11-17-2014, 08:47 AM
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AFAIK it isn't possible to reinstall the existing firmware on a DTVPal. Nor is it possible to revert to a previous version in order to reinstall F208 (each upgrade overlays the previous version, and no backup copy is kept). You can only install a new version (and, of course, there are no newer versions than F208).

The best you can do is to perform a factory defaults reset (menu 3-2-4 IIRC). If that doesn't resolve your problem, P Smith has had some luck in re-flashing the firmware, but he lives in Greece, so shipping your Pal to him would be slow and expensive (but probably still faster and cheaper than buying a replacement Pal).

Edit: BTW, Ed is right; failing electrolytic capacitors could also cause the symptom you're experiencing, and they can be replaced.

Last edited by JHBrandt; 11-17-2014 at 08:50 AM.
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post #18534 of 18540 Old 11-17-2014, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kariches View Post
I have had 4 yrs of good experience with a TR50 DTVPal DVR with F208 upgrade. Recently the software became corrupted (freezes up a few times a night). Unplugging and rebooting gets it to restart, but then it freezes up again. When I try to reinstall the F208 upgrade from a thumb drive the unit responds that it already has the upgrade and will not install it. Is there any way that I can uninstall the corrupted version so that I can reinstall the good one?
You can't conclude that way. There is checksum protection of FW's corruption - the DVR will not boot if FW corrupted; the freezes happening by other reasons, like mentioned bad capacitors, bad HDD, bad soldering BGA chips [CPU, ROM], etc
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post #18535 of 18540 Old 11-19-2014, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A J View Post
I'm curious as to whether something that happened last night was just a fluke, or maybe is an indicator of something more serious. My CM-7000PAL is almost 4 years old and has never done anything wierd, beyond occasional random reboots. Last night I had programmed it for two simultaneous recordings, 8-9PM, with 2 minutes padding before and after.

When I got home I noticed that the PAL's red light was still on, indicating a recording in progress long after it should have finished. It was locked up and wouldn't respond to the remote. I did a soft reboot and it recycled, scanned the program guide and seemed to be normal again. However, one of the two recordings had stopped after 53 minutes. The other showed that it had completed its full 64 minutes.

When I checked the recording which showed 64 minutes, I fast forwarded and the scroll bar reached the end after 64 minutes. But then I continued fast forwarding through the next hour long show and mostly through the next show after that, almost 3 hours in all. So it was recording until I rebooted it.

Anyone else run across something like this?

Yes, this same thing happened at the end of the summer for me, most likely because the signal on the channel I was recording was extremely weak. I had moved the PAL from it's former location with a good signal, to another room with a much weaker signal. It was supposed to just record one show @ 9p.m., but the red light was on well past midnight. I had to unplug the unit to get it to stop recording. Upon playback, the pixellation was so bad, the program was unwatchable.
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post #18536 of 18540 Old 11-19-2014, 05:38 PM
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Last weekend I noticed my main 'Pal that gets used through the day and night was in Rec mode, and shouldn't have been. It had recorded a timer event earlier, and should have ended that task. So I looked at the Guide, and every 30 min block on whatever channel it was recording (KTXA MeTV 21.2 I think it was on) was marked to record, as far out into the next day as I went. My guess is a remnant of the old timer setting I had not deleted and re-scheduled after change back to normal time. I suppose had I not stopped it, it would have kept on recording and started writing over old recordings, don't know. It had another weird glitch last week mentioned before that was likely DST change related.
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post #18537 of 18540 Old Yesterday, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P Smith View Post
You can't conclude that way. There is checksum protection of FW's corruption - the DVR will not boot if FW corrupted; the freezes happening by other reasons, like mentioned bad capacitors, bad HDD, bad soldering BGA chips [CPU, ROM], etc
Thank you for responding. It looks like my best choice is to replace it with a CM 7500. Would you agree?
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post #18538 of 18540 Old Yesterday, 02:25 PM
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Question

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Thank you for responding. It looks like my best choice is to replace it with a CM 7500. Would you agree?
Sure if you want a new one and not fixing the old one.
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post #18539 of 18540 Old Yesterday, 06:18 PM
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Sure if you want a new one and not fixing the old one.
Get them while they are on sale for only $175.
http://www.channelmasterstore.com/Ar...07&Click=47425

.
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post #18540 of 18540 Old Yesterday, 07:59 PM
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The way the ad reads, I think you have to wait until Black Friday for that price. Good Black Friday or Cyber Monday only. But it is an excellent deal.

Also, during the intervening weekend, CM has a couple of their bigger antennas (the CM 2020 and 4228HD) on sale. Useful to anyone needing to boost their reception (for either the DVR+ or the Pal).
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