The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 623 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #18661 of 19443 Old 02-20-2015, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homer86 View Post
I'm still hoping someone has the answers to these two questions (maybe it's sort of the same question twice). It's something I've been wondering about for some time because I suspect the two reboots DO have to be done within some time frame.
I answered that question several days ago. (I GUESS I DON'T TYPE VERY LOUD!)

Feel free to confirm my findings....
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post #18662 of 19443 Old 02-20-2015, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post
I answered that question several days ago. (I GUESS I DON'T TYPE VERY LOUD!)

Feel free to confirm my findings....
Actually, what you said was:

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Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post
After a factory reset or a channel rescan or manually entering the time, the DTVPal uses the internal clock to determine the correct time. After two warm boots and from then on the DTVPal uses time calculated from PSIP data. Further warm boots have no effect...
Which I already knew, but my original questions were: (1) Will two warm boots still work even if they occur 24 hours apart (as would happen if someone simply set the "check for updates" option)? If so, then setting "check for updates" is probably overkill (since additional reboots after the 2nd day have little effect), but at least the OP's suggestion would work.

And (2) if two warm boots 24 hours apart won't work, as some have suggested, how much time can elapse between the warm boots and still expect to reset the clock to the PSIP average? 2 hours? 10 minutes? 45 seconds?
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post #18663 of 19443 Old 02-20-2015, 02:38 PM
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Two warm boots achieved by any method -- hold the power button for 10 sec, pull the plug, set updates. No time requirement - can be done back to back, can be minutes, days, hours, (years?) apart.

If you manually set the time or rescan the channels you need to repeat the two warm boots.

(If there was a time constrain I would have noted it in my previous post)
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post #18664 of 19443 Old 02-20-2015, 03:55 PM
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What a pain in the butt to get apart. Took my original pal apart for a good cleaning and to check it out. Just a little dust on the fan, but inside was surprising very clean and all caps looked good. Cleaned it all with vacuum brush anyway, put it back together, and back in action. I was going to take 2nd apart and clean, but after seeing the 1st, not going to bother with it. Will take the 3rd one apart next time I'm out at condo in Las Vegas, as that one I bought used.
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post #18665 of 19443 Old 02-21-2015, 06:37 AM
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Crashes and clock farts

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Originally Posted by Pete-N2 View Post
Two warm boots achieved by any method -- hold the power button for 10 sec, pull the plug, set updates. No time requirement - can be done back to back, can be minutes, days, hours, (years?) apart.

If you manually set the time or rescan the channels you need to repeat the two warm boots.

(If there was a time constrain I would have noted it in my previous post)
I'm brand new to your forum because I'm so grateful for all the good advice. In addition to random time changes of 30 to 200 minutes, we had almost daily crashes that required reboot. I never tried the double reboot trick.
Took the PAL apart (very difficult I must say), found the 2200 microfarad power capacitor with bulge, took the mother board to a TV repair guy who, for $25, replaced the 10 volt cap with a 25 volt 2200mf cap and we are now three days trouble free. The 25 volt cap, he says, will handle higher temperatures without failure.
Again, many thanks for this forum. sdhamel
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post #18666 of 19443 Old 02-21-2015, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by James_in_Utah View Post
I ordered one of the WD10EURX mentioned by Ed at $49 and $3 shipping. Do I need to do anything special to the drive before putting it in? Will it work right out of the box?
Also, while you have the DVR opened up, look for any capacitors that have the tell-tale bulge on top. Many previous posts deal with this topic. I have just fixed mine that had almost daily crashes and major time changes. All I had to do was have one capacitor replaced.
Maybe you need a new drive, but for sure, any capacitors that are failing need to be replaced too.
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post #18667 of 19443 Old 02-21-2015, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by sdhamel View Post
Also, while you have the DVR opened up, look for any capacitors that have the tell-tale bulge on top. Many previous posts deal with this topic. I have just fixed mine that had almost daily crashes and major time changes. All I had to do was have one capacitor replaced.
Maybe you need a new drive, but for sure, any capacitors that are failing need to be replaced too.
sdhamel
Those bulged capacitor posts were back around January 15, 2015.
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post #18668 of 19443 Old 02-22-2015, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdhamel View Post
Those bulged capacitor posts were back around January 15, 2015.
sdhamel
New Bug, at least for me.

I've had my pal running for about 4 years, and it is starting to freeze up occasionally. Plus some of the audio and video is glitchy during playback. I assume the caps are starting to get dried out, and plan on having all of them replaced during the TV doldums in may or june. Anyway, I recently switched TVs, to one with an HDMI input. I had been using component video all this time. Now, using the HDMI, when the box freezes up, the screen just turns on and off about every two seconds or so, and the box is unresponsive. Even the soft reset with the remote will not work. I actually have to power off the TV, and then press the power button on the remote for 10 seconds to get the Pal to reset. Is that normal? Considering going back to the component video.
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post #18669 of 19443 Old 02-22-2015, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James_in_Utah View Post
New Bug, at least for me.

I've had my pal running for about 4 years, and it is starting to freeze up occasionally. Plus some of the audio and video is glitchy during playback. I assume the caps are starting to get dried out, and plan on having all of them replaced during the TV doldums in may or june. Anyway, I recently switched TVs, to one with an HDMI input. I had been using component video all this time. Now, using the HDMI, when the box freezes up, the screen just turns on and off about every two seconds or so, and the box is unresponsive. Even the soft reset with the remote will not work. I actually have to power off the TV, and then press the power button on the remote for 10 seconds to get the Pal to reset. Is that normal? Considering going back to the component video.

WARNING!


Freezing, pixilation, etc, are WARNING signs that your power supply is about to fry your electronics rendering your beloved and really un-replaceable PalDVR a DOORSTOP. Do not wait for total failure to open the case and replace those defective capacitors. If you do, it's all over but the cursing.
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post #18670 of 19443 Old 02-23-2015, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James_in_Utah View Post
... I recently switched TVs, to one with an HDMI input. I had been using component video all this time. Now, using the HDMI, when the box freezes up, the screen just turns on and off about every two seconds or so, and the box is unresponsive. Even the soft reset with the remote will not work. I actually have to power off the TV, and then press the power button on the remote for 10 seconds to get the Pal to reset. Is that normal? Considering going back to the component video.
That can happen with HDMI. There's a complicated handshaking protocol that's not present with component video, so if the Pal freezes up, you may have to shut off the TV to interrupt the handshake in order to reboot the Pal.

IMO the only reasons to choose HDMI over component are convenience (one idiot-proof cable vs. 5 easily mixed-up ones) and maybe slightly better PQ if the component cables are really long.

BTW, I agree with Donald; the Pal's problems will only get worse, and a bad capacitor could eventually cause permanent damage. Best to take care of it ASAP.

Last edited by JHBrandt; 02-23-2015 at 01:26 PM.
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post #18671 of 19443 Old 02-23-2015, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James_in_Utah View Post
New Bug, at least for me.

I've had my pal running for about 4 years, and it is starting to freeze up occasionally. Plus some of the audio and video is glitchy during playback. I assume the caps are starting to get dried out, and plan on having all of them replaced during the TV doldums in may or june. Anyway, I recently switched TVs, to one with an HDMI input. I had been using component video all this time. Now, using the HDMI, when the box freezes up, the screen just turns on and off about every two seconds or so, and the box is unresponsive. Even the soft reset with the remote will not work. I actually have to power off the TV, and then press the power button on the remote for 10 seconds to get the Pal to reset. Is that normal? Considering going back to the component video.
I always turn on the TV first and after it is running turn on other input such as PAL, or Dish or DVD.
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post #18672 of 19443 Old 03-05-2015, 07:32 AM
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Forgive me if this is repeat question. My dtvpal is starting to act all kinds of crazy. The timers move ahead or fall behind an hour and last night decided to make 2 recordings of the same show on the same channel a th same time. Please tell me there's an easy fix for this.
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post #18673 of 19443 Old 03-05-2015, 07:46 AM
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Forgive me if this is repeat question. My dtvpal is starting to act all kinds of crazy...

Probably wait until the DST change this weekend and it may straighten itself out. You will probably have to delete and re-enter timers as they may get screwed up in the process. Just one of the bugs.
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post #18674 of 19443 Old 03-07-2015, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Open it and check if any of the electrolytic capacitors are visibly bulging. Check under the shields too. (The tops of the shields should pop off and back on fairly easily.) Any that are bulging need to be replaced.

Unfortunately, if it's not the HDD (and it sounds like it isn't) and it's not the capacitors, there's not much else to try.
Thanks. Under the RF shield, C242 is bulging. I will replace it and report back.
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post #18675 of 19443 Old 03-07-2015, 12:43 PM
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I would suggest to go ahead and replace C34 while in it. That's the one that failed in mine. See attached picture.

I'm replacing both C242 and C34 in my 'Pal DVRs. They seem to be the regular culprits.
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post #18676 of 19443 Old 03-07-2015, 02:02 PM
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Don't forget about DST going into effect tonight. If you've disabled DST on your Pal (and don't live in AZ or HI) you'll either have to enable it or change your time zone. Either way, be sure to check all your timers tomorrow.
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post #18677 of 19443 Old 03-07-2015, 06:07 PM
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Open it and check if any of the electrolytic capacitors are visibly bulging. Check under the shields too. (The tops of the shields should pop off and back on fairly easily.) Any that are bulging need to be replaced.

Unfortunately, if it's not the HDD (and it sounds like it isn't) and it's not the capacitors, there's not much else to try.
Took mine down; was having A/V sync issues. Noticed in quote above; Shields (plural)... already put it back together, but wondering if there are cap's under the smaller box where the antenna jacks are located?


PS: found one bulging cap in the larger box and replaced it. So far issue hasn't repeated.

Chris C
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post #18678 of 19443 Old 03-07-2015, 06:21 PM
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Nope no capacitors under the smaller tuner antenna jacks shield.
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post #18679 of 19443 Old 03-09-2015, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Don't forget about DST going into effect tonight. If you've disabled DST on your Pal (and don't live in AZ or HI) you'll either have to enable it or change your time zone. Either way, be sure to check all your timers tomorrow.
Well my experiment, DST: "OFF", Update: "ENABLE" at 3am, Time Zone left in "mountain" were I live. seems to have worked. Got up Sunday and Time was correct (the usual 15-20 seconds behind) and program guide was correct and timers were in correct time slot and recorded OK. I did the double power button reboot a few months ago. Big test will be when we go back to Standard Time. I think now that we only have psip time being sent by stations and the reboot at night checking for an update will work


Last edited by FRANK43; 03-09-2015 at 12:15 PM.
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post #18680 of 19443 Old 03-09-2015, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
I would suggest to go ahead and replace C34 while in it. That's the one that failed in mine. See attached picture.

I'm replacing both C242 and C34 in my 'Pal DVRs. They seem to be the regular culprits.
No luck with C242 (820uF 6.3Volt). C34 (2200 uF 10V) looks ok. I suppose I might as well try it before I buy a ChannelMaster DVR+.
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post #18681 of 19443 Old 03-09-2015, 04:07 PM
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No luck with C242 ..
Different symptom that mine was having too. Mine began to occasionally freeze and lock up but always recovered from a re-boot, never stuck in "Loading...". Good luck!
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post #18682 of 19443 Old 03-10-2015, 06:31 PM
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I have a working DTVPal DVR with 1TB drive installed. Are these worth anything still? It works great. Thanks!
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post #18683 of 19443 Old 03-10-2015, 10:19 PM
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wrong forum - check eBay for the answer
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post #18684 of 19443 Old 03-11-2015, 05:01 PM
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I have a working DTVPal DVR with 1TB drive installed. Are these worth anything still? It works great. Thanks!
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wrong forum - check eBay for the answer
I haven't checked eBay since I needed a replacement Pal last year, but that wasn't that long ago and they were golden back then - even with the stock drive they went for over $270. I bought one with a bad HDD for about $230 since I wanted to replace the HDD with my old one anyway.

I never saw an upgraded one at eBay but I'd think it could very well fetch $300 (minus eBay's fees, but still a nice sum).
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post #18685 of 19443 Old 03-11-2015, 05:55 PM
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post #18686 of 19443 Old 03-11-2015, 07:25 PM
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I looked at Wiscojim's link. Many of those were in non-working order or were missing the remote. (You & I know that a replacement Pal remote can be easily obtained but the average eBayer probably doesn't.) Nevertheless there were quite a few that went for much less than I had to pay (even after months of searching eBay).

I'm guessing prices fell sharply after Christmas, and I was just a victim of bad timing when mine failed and needed replacing. So if you have a working Pal to sell, you might want to hold onto it until the 2015 holiday season arrives.

Hmm.... I do have a spare Pal remote (from upgrading to a Dish 20.1) that I could sell on eBay.... Nah, I'd probably get more than it's worth, but after eBay's fees, not enough to be worth listing.

But I'll reconsider in November.
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post #18687 of 19443 Old 03-14-2015, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Conlon View Post
No luck with C242 (820uF 6.3Volt). C34 (2200 uF 10V) looks ok. I suppose I might as well try it before I buy a ChannelMaster DVR+.
Have you tried a new C34 yet? Old one doesn't necessarily have to look bad to be bad.

I replaced my old failed Nichicon 2200uF 10V with a new Panasonic "FM" series Low ESR 2200uF 16v. Mine hasn't failed since. Solid. Also replaced C242 as a precautionary measure, but the original 820/6.3 Jamicon-brand ESR tests just fine at .03 Ohm. (Old bloated failed 2200/10 Nichicon measured .34 Ohm. New Panasonic 2200/16 is .02 Ohm).

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post #18688 of 19443 Old 03-16-2015, 06:01 PM
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I replaced the two bulging capacitors and it seems to be working fine. I failed to note which way the fan faced before I removed it. Does it blow in or out.
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post #18689 of 19443 Old 03-16-2015, 06:20 PM
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I replaced the two bulging capacitors and it seems to be working fine. I failed to note which way the fan faced before I removed it. Does it blow in or out.
"In" on my 3.

Congrats!
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post #18690 of 19443 Old 03-16-2015, 06:26 PM
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