The Official AVS Dish DTVPal DVR Topic! - Page 627 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 07-09-2015, 12:55 PM
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Try plugging the 'Pal directly into the TV Video-In for test purposes to eliminate everything else.
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Old 07-09-2015, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
Try plugging the 'Pal directly into the TV Video-In for test purposes to eliminate everything else.
Tried both direct connecting video and coaxial cable out. I will try connecting it to a HD TV.
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Old 07-09-2015, 11:47 PM
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My DTV Pal has started fading to a black and white picture. The guide is also black and white. Has someone experienced this problem?
yes, I got same problem using S-VHS output on dish DVR. Only cold restart gave temporary solution. Root reason is not known.
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Old 07-10-2015, 10:11 AM
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I bought a TiVo Roamio OTA with lifetime so it is time to part with my CM-7000PAL. It has the usual daylight savings time bugaboo that seems to plague us all. Other than that the only anomaly I've experienced in the 4 years since purchase is random reboots. They have happened since day one and seem no better or worse now than when new. Sometimes it will go a week or more between reboots and other times it has happened 2 or 3 times in one day. When that bad the remedy has been to reset to factory defaults, which settles things down for a few months. Lately, I've been forcing a reboot once a day (holding the power switch down) and that has seemed to eliminate additional random reboots.

Anyway, with that history I didn't feel comfortable putting it on eBay even with those disclaimers. CM-7000PALs seem to always be bid up to ridiculously high prices and I don't want to disappoint someone who might not understand the pluses and minuses of the PAL. So, I decided to drop it off at Goodwill. They'll probably sell it for $5 and whoever buys it should at least get his money's worth, even with the reboots.

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Old 07-10-2015, 12:58 PM
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I would open it, check for bad capacitors or other issues like a dust and clean it before the sell. But I know how and can open it without any mark ...
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Old 07-11-2015, 07:19 PM
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yes, I got same problem using S-VHS output on dish DVR. Only cold restart gave temporary solution. Root reason is not known.
Seems to work fine using HDMI. Works for a short time with other outputs after cold reboot.

Any suggestions?
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Old 07-11-2015, 08:42 PM
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Are you able to try component video?

If not, this product may give you a reasonably inexpensive solution, since the Pal's HDMI works: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00P7RL5C8

I use one of these with my old analog-only bedroom TV. Works great with the Pal and also provides a sharper S-video output (if your TV happens to have a matching S-video input); only quirk is, when you turn the Pal off, the box displays a color-bar test pattern instead of a blue or black screen.
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Old 07-13-2015, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jtribb View Post
Seems to work fine using HDMI. Works for a short time with other outputs after cold reboot.

Any suggestions?
Sounds like the circuitry to generate the NTSC chroma signal (or the circuitry to combine the chroma and luma to produce the composite output and to modulate the RF output) is crapping out, probably due to dying capacitors. The HDMI and component outputs don't require that circuitry, which is why they still work.
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Old 07-14-2015, 06:54 AM
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Sounds like the circuitry to generate the NTSC chroma signal (or the circuitry to combine the chroma and luma to produce the composite output and to modulate the RF output) is crapping out, probably due to dying capacitors...
What I am thinking too, capacitors in the analog video circuit. Might be able to locate the culprit with a can of freeze mist (or more common a can of compressed duster gas held upside-down) dribbled on each small capacitor, maybe in close proximity to the output jacks on the back. It won't be a big power supply related capacitor.
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Old 07-14-2015, 07:28 AM
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Nay, it's not right tool for start troubleshooting - use o-scope and check signals from S-VHS connector and up to the chain; not sure there are any transistors or chips between main CPU/MME and the connector ... I'll try to look soon...
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Old 07-14-2015, 07:50 AM
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I'm thinking practical. What the typical user might have available, which likely isn't an o'scope...

I've located many a failed cap or semiconductor with a can of freeze mist.
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Old 07-14-2015, 08:08 AM
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I wouldn't find failed transistor or capacitor with a can of freeze mist... at least using volt-ohm-meter (many of them can do diode/transistor test) , perhaps ESR meter for caps.
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Old 07-14-2015, 08:21 AM
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Well, for something that seems to fail as it warms up, like an electrolytic capacitor passing the analog video, a $4 can of gas may just find it.
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Old 07-14-2015, 08:56 AM
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Cooling capacitor shouldn't restore its capacitance temporary nor permanently, IMHO...
usually we use the method for overheating chips. BTW, I did use it successfully for troubleshoot tuner/demod chips of the TR-50.
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Old 07-14-2015, 03:46 PM
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Cooling capacitor shouldn't restore its capacitance temporary nor permanently, IMHO...
...
Think of the internal wound foil and dielectric inside the partially dried out capacitor, shrinking when it gets cold, expanding as it warms up. It happens. Not opinion, just the fact.
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Old 07-14-2015, 11:07 PM
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Think of the internal wound foil and dielectric inside the partially dried out capacitor, shrinking when it gets cold, expanding as it warms up. It happens. Not opinion, just the fact.
Well...counting hundred turns, very tight gap - it would be miniscule chande in capacitance during cooling the capacitor; if we will take in accunt very significant change of "vetting" the dielectric paper what usually drying under high temperature , it has very big impact on nominal capacitance...
I don't keep bulged or bad capacitors, but I could make the experiment on good one, to show you, it will change its capacitance in a limit of its marked by mfg tolerance.
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Old 07-15-2015, 05:16 AM
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.. I could make the experiment on good one, to show you, it will change its capacitance in a limit of its marked by mfg tolerance.
Not necessary, and it would need to be a failing cap anyway. I've seen the effect myself many times over 30 years as an electronics repair technician. Found many a failing cap over those years by hitting it with a bit of freeze mist, and suddenly the circuit starts working.

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Old 07-15-2015, 08:12 AM
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I'm just little bit skeptical as normal EE (with little longer experience in electronics include design, verification, repair, who worked for sustain group and did failure reports ) who want to see such result in verifiable test procedure and done by myself ...

OK, we will put on hold my respond to your interesting experience - I promise when I'll get such case, I'll start from measures of ESR/capacitance of the failed electrolytic capacitor then repeat the measures after using a freeze can.
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Old 07-16-2015, 05:49 AM
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OFF TOPIC, but one example I recall, was one particular Panasonic VHS VCR model line would come in with dark distorted b&w video. Looking at the waveform on a scope, the leading and trailing sync pulses would be rounded off and distorted and the whole video waveform would be about half the amplitude it should be. Hit one particular SMD capacitor on the video module with a drop of freeze mist and would instantly come back full brightness and color. Just sayin'!
And, yeah, you engineer-types were some of my worst customers too!
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Old 07-16-2015, 01:23 PM
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Hehe, I'm that kind of EE who can and always willing get his hand dirty... as do agile his brain's activity before and during and after digging the dirt
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Old 07-24-2015, 09:38 AM
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Last night, the DVR function was non-functional from the main menu and the remote when I turned on the TV to watch a show that had been recording a few hours earlier. Only about 7 minute of the show was actually recorded. Maybe I hit the wrong button when I turned off the TV? A soft reboot fixed things and it's now working. I have been reading this thread for many years and don't remember this quirk being discussed before. Any thoughts?
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Old 07-24-2015, 09:50 AM
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I've seen random HDD errors cause that. Will have no DVR, no Pause, and anything DVR is grayed out. Will still tune channels live. A soft reboot will correct it (so far, anyway). Your soft reboot probably fixed it for now. Why it happened? Don't know. Maybe HDD is getting worn out.
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Old 07-24-2015, 11:57 AM
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I've seen random HDD errors cause that. Will have no DVR, no Pause, and anything DVR is grayed out. Will still tune channels live. A soft reboot will correct it (so far, anyway). Your soft reboot probably fixed it for now. Why it happened? Don't know. Maybe HDD is getting worn out.
I also thought that the HDD might be the root of the problem. I has been running 24/7 for many years. Unfortunately, this is not the best time to add the expense of a new drive. And with my bad back (been down over 2 months), I don't have much computer time to research what drives are currently available. At least I have a spare machine if this one goes down and can't be resuscitated . . . IF I can crawl down there and hook it up!
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Old 07-24-2015, 12:27 PM
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This: WD10EURX... about $50 today.


  • Power-conserving WD AV-GP drives offer significant power savings and thermally optimized operation resulting in lower cost of ownership and unsurpassed reliability for PVR/DVR, IPTV boxes and media server manufacturers.
  • SilkStream - Optimized for smooth, continuous digital video playback of up to twelve simultaneous HD streams. SilkStream is compatible with the ATA streaming command set so CE customers can use standard streaming management and error recovery options.
  • Ideal for set-top boxes (PVR, DVR and IPTV), media servers, media centers, and surveillance applications.
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Old 07-24-2015, 01:19 PM
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This: WD10EURX... about $50 today.
  • Power-conserving WD AV-GP drives offer significant power savings and thermally optimized operation resulting in lower cost of ownership and unsurpassed reliability for PVR/DVR, IPTV boxes and media server manufacturers.
  • SilkStream - Optimized for smooth, continuous digital video playback of up to twelve simultaneous HD streams. SilkStream is compatible with the ATA streaming command set so CE customers can use standard streaming management and error recovery options.
  • Ideal for set-top boxes (PVR, DVR and IPTV), media servers, media centers, and surveillance applications.
That's a good deal. But I'm not seeing a link! Where did you find that?

Last edited by golinux; 07-24-2015 at 01:22 PM. Reason: Nevermind. Found it on Amazon. Thanks.
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Old 07-24-2015, 01:22 PM
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That's a good deal. But I'm not seeing a link! Where did you find that?
here ya go...

http://www.amazon.com/WD-AV-GP-Video...words=wd10eurx
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Old 07-24-2015, 05:17 PM
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Such a deal! I actually ordered one. Now I have to figure out how to open the case . . .
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Old 07-24-2015, 07:57 PM
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Such a deal! I actually ordered one. Now I have to figure out how to open the case . . .
If you've never opened one before, there are instructions with pictures posted in this thread. While you're in it look for any bulging tops on capacitors, and blow out the dust.
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Old 07-25-2015, 07:12 AM
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If you've never opened one before, there are instructions with pictures posted in this thread. While you're in it look for any bulging tops on capacitors, and blow out the dust.
Yes. I have all those pages bookmarked and have saved some of the internal images.. I actually almost had it open once. If you ever find yourself near Austin, let me know and I would pay you to do it.
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Old Today, 08:13 PM
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Replacement drive arrived today. Hope to switch it out in a day or two. It's just a drop-in replacement, right?

But now I'm wondering if it's the HDD. Earlier tonight I had another recording lock-up. After a soft reboot I went in and checked the error messages and there were zero errors on the HDD data. So now I'm confused . . .
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