D-VHS recorder for use with Sony KD-34XBR2 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 01-31-2002, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I recenetly purchased a Sony KD-34XBR2 HDTV. Does anyone know of a D-VHS recorder with an OTA tuner and iLink output compatable with the 34XBR2's iLink inouts?

Someone mentioned that Panasonic made such a machine but I can't find it on Panasonic's web site>

Thanks,

michael
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post #2 of 19 Old 01-31-2002, 10:36 PM
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JVC has a D-VHS VCR that seems like it would fit your requirements. Model HM-DH30000 has an OTA tuner that supports all 18 ATSC broadcast formats. According to the manual, which can be downloaded from the site, it has two i.Link in/out ports, and component video out, but not component video in. It supports DTLA copy protection. Content tagged 'no copying' will not be copied. The i.Link ports are designated as 'DV In' -- it will not send video out to a camcorder via i.Link, but can record from a DV camera.

http://www.jvc.com/featured_product....lId=MODL026758

The biggest drawback is the price: List is $1995. CircuitCity.com lists it for $1500.
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post #3 of 19 Old 01-31-2002, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CupertinoSlim
JVC has a D-VHS VCR that seems like it would fit your requirements. Model HM-DH30000 has an OTA tuner that supports all 18 ATSC broadcast formats.
http://www.jvc.com/featured_product....lId=MODL026758
Not really. The JVC DVHS decks are capable of recording ATSC DTV from their IEEE1394 interface only. The OTA tuner is only for NTSC or cable.

You could use the JVC to playback into the Sony via IEEE1394, see below.

According to reliable reports here, the Sony will not act as a DTV source for the JVC, or any other DVHS deck. In spite of the fact all IEEE1394 communication is two way by it's nature, the Sony does not allow the DTV signal to leave it for any reason. This is very unusual, in that the other DTV tuner product on the market with IEEE1394, the new Mitsubishi HDTV's, do provide an IEEE1394 DTV output for recording of OTA signals.

The D-Theater version of JVC's DVHS decks are a source for newly announced prerecorded HDTV movies. See topics about this here and in HDTV Programming & Hardware.

Another alternative is to consider the 169time DTC-100 modification, it has been recently reported this works with the JVC DVHS decks. I believe you could use IEEE1394 out of the DTC into the Sony. The modification has two IEEE1394 interfaces, one for the DVHS, one for the Sony. Perhaps h2ofun Dave can provide more info about this.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no workable method of using the Sony IEEE1394 interface to record to a DVHS deck at this time. I would suspect solutions for this could be made available from Sony or others, by making a DVHS with a DTV tuner bulit in, but I would not be able to predict when.

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post #4 of 19 Old 01-31-2002, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CupertinoSlim
Model HM-DH30000 has an OTA tuner that supports all 18 ATSC broadcast formats.
Oh no it doesn't (everyone here wishes it did).
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post #5 of 19 Old 02-01-2002, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ken H
According to reliable reports here, the Sony will not act as a DTV source for the JVC, or any other DVHS deck. In spite of the fact all IEEE1394 communication is two way by it's nature, the Sony does not allow the DTV signal to leave it for any reason. This is very unusual, in that the other DTV tuner product on the market with IEEE1394, the new Mitsubishi HDTV's, do provide an IEEE1394 DTV output for recording of OTA signals.


To the best of my knowledge, there is no workable method of using the Sony IEEE1394 interface to record to a DVHS deck at this time.


The current Audio Video Interiors has a review of the 30000U which asserts that despite previous findings to the contrary, the reviewer WAS able to dub OTA ATSC content from the Sony to the JVC.



The assertion that the Sony's firewire implementation was somehow "one-way" always seemed to fly in the face of logic, good sense, and prior experience.

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post #6 of 19 Old 02-01-2002, 05:37 AM
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I had the the JVC 30000 on hand with the 34XBR2 when I made my evaluations. I confirmed the one way connectivity with Sony. For those that would like to read more about it, my review of the Sony 34XBR2 will appear in two weeks in The Perfect Vision.
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post #7 of 19 Old 02-01-2002, 09:03 AM
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You tell em' Gary! :D

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post #8 of 19 Old 02-01-2002, 09:45 AM
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I sent a note asking richard if the dtc100 firewire can connect straight into the Sony or Mits and work. I had just this question last night talking to someone.

dave
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post #9 of 19 Old 02-01-2002, 10:15 AM
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Richard said unknown, no one has tried.

dave
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post #10 of 19 Old 02-01-2002, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gary Merson
I had the the JVC 30000 on hand with the 34XBR2 when I made my evaluations. I confirmed the one way connectivity with Sony.
In this thread I documented the ability of the firewire ported Sony to allow playback of HD DVHS content using the PV-HD1000 as the source.

In this review of the JVC HM-DH30000U the reviewer recorded ATSC OTA HD onto DVHS using the Sony as source.

Quote:
It also let me record HDTV signals from the Sony utilizing the... i.Link connection....It worked just fine when I connected the Sony's i.Link output to the JVC's input.

Dennis,
Can you please verify whether or not you were indeed able to record OTA HD on the HM-DH30000U via the i.Link of the Sony?
If so, then the i.Link has to be "two way."

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post #11 of 19 Old 02-01-2002, 02:13 PM
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tmitchmd:

The Audio Vide Interiors review also made some statements of which I'm very skeptical:

Quote:


For the purposes of this review, I used the HM-DH30000U with the new Sony KDP-57XBR2, which is a 57-inch widescreen (16:9) set that includes a built-in ATSC decoder, progressive-scan circuitry, two wideband component-video inputs, and an
i.Link connector (i.Link is Sony's implementation of IEEE 1394). I also used the RCA DTC-100 HDTV DirecTV satellite receiver, connecting both the S-video and RF antenna outputs from the DTC-100 to the VCR.

In addition, I connected the RGB output from the DTC-100 to an Audio Authority RGB-to-component converter, which I then connected to one of the component-video inputs on the PTV to monitor 1080i signals. This gave me the ability to watch an HDTV
program from the networks (via rooftop antenna) and record another off the satellite from DirecTV.

End Quote

The reviewer appears to claim recording HDTV from DiecTV satellite. This I don't believe.

So, can we believe any of the rest of the article
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post #12 of 19 Old 02-01-2002, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you to previous posters. I appreciate the information.

Gary Merson,

I am looking forward to reading your review. I read Perfect Vision for many years (starting back in the days of LaserDiscs) but have not had time to read magazines recently. I guess I need to find time to keep up with things.


Re: PV-HD1000

I heard someone mentioned this recorder. It is exactly what I am looking for but, as mentioned, it is no longer available. Does anyone know of a source for one - new or used?

The JVC HM-DH30000U sounds good if it can indeed record from the Sony's iLink connector. How do I verify whether it can or cannot (or verify that the Sony iLink is indeed bi-directional). Could the 34XBR2 differ from the 57XBR2 in this regard?

Please excuse the simple questions. I am new to HDTV and D-VHS recorders.

Thank you,

michael
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post #13 of 19 Old 02-02-2002, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by michaelr


How do I verify whether it can or cannot (or verify that the Sony iLink is indeed bi-directional).

michael
You'll need a firewire capture card to see if XBR2 indeed sends video packets to the wire. If you are handy with PC software debug tools, OHCI card and PC are all you need to confirm if XBR2 iLink is bidirectional.

PM me if you want to know how to do it.
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post #14 of 19 Old 02-04-2002, 06:35 AM
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I have the SONy KD-34xbr2. I actually ran a firewire cable from both of the outputs to my firewire card. I was actually trying to play video FROM my Dell computer into the TV. Here is what happened: When I plugged it into the TV - Windows 2000 launched the wizard that new hardware had been found and would I like to install - but it couldn't find any drivers for the TV set? The TV isn't plugin/play unfortunately. I went into Device Manager under Systems and it actually lists the NAME of the TV under the DEVICES - "SONY KD34XBR2" - but it has the question mark next to it -saying the device is not working properly. I wonder if Sony will release any drivers for the TV. So I guess it is bi-directional since it sent the name of the TV to my computer but that ould just be bidrectional header info. So the signal from TV wasn't getting displayed on my computer.

Then I also tried to display video from my computer on the TV - to no avial. the TV recogonized that something was connected to the iLink connection but displayed "NO SIGNAL" - no matter how many times I played around with any settings!!!! The message on the Tv came syaing that a DTV Device was plugged in via the iLink connection - but No signal!!!

I also tried to connect my brother's SONY DC9 camcorder to the TV via the iLink connector since the camera has an iLink connector- again the TV recogonized that something was connected to the iLink connection but displayed "NO SIGNAL" - no matter how many times I played aroudn with any settings!!!! The message on the TVcame syaing that a DTV Device was plugged in via the iLink connection - but No signal!!!

This confuses me for TWO reasons: 1. I have hooked up this camcorder to my copmuter via the iLink connector and played video into my computer fine, edited it in adobe premier and played it back out (via the inlink) to the camorder, but when i try it with the TV - no luck. 2. These are both SONY products - compatibility???

My final conclusion is the iLink on this TV has a special standard for communicating since the manual even said there is only one known set top box that works with this TV. It probably is looking for the special copyrighted signal in the iLink connection before displaying anything. - anyway to spoof this copyrighted signal??
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post #15 of 19 Old 02-04-2002, 09:57 AM
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It certainly seems like the reviewer from Audio Video Interiors lost track of how he was watching and how he was recording. The had two of the video-out connections to the satellite box hooked up to the JVC deck, and a third hooked up to the Sony TV (the same one I have). He watched one channel on the Sony while he recorded another OTA, and he had the antenna connection hooked up to the JVC. He apparently thought he had recorded from the Sony's OTA tuner, but from his own words it seems more likely that he actually recorded using either the OTA tuner in the satellite box or in the JVC itself.

I'm not concerned about using my Sony TV as a source, only as a display for Firewire sources. So the reviewer's confusion doesn't affect me. But I am finding sloppy reviews to be a growing problem and no longer trust the findings of reviews if I haven't read the article. Not just AVI, but Consumer Reports and others have either not rigorously analyzed their own findings (like AVI, apparently) or use inane criteria for judging quality and performance (like CR).
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post #16 of 19 Old 02-04-2002, 10:02 AM
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dreggman, you said you hooked up both Firewire ports on your PC to the Sony -- not at the same time, right? Firewire is not to be hooked up as a loop. I assume you tried one Firewire port, then switched the Firewire cable to the other port.
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post #17 of 19 Old 02-04-2002, 11:10 AM
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yep - I tried hooking up each firewire port - ONE AT A TIME - commmon sense I would think since I onyl have one cable!

Anyone else have any input into this? I am trying to figure out a way to PLAY video from Computer via the firewire port INTO my TV via the iLink input.

G
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post #18 of 19 Old 02-04-2002, 11:54 AM
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I was considering this Tv but since the JVC D-theator tapes will not output via I link, only analog, guess why spend the extra money for something I can not really use.

dave
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post #19 of 19 Old 02-04-2002, 01:06 PM
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I had posted the news from the Audio Video Interiors magazine product review of the JVC 30000 that the Sony could provide a digital signal to the 30000 through the firewire port of the Sony in this forum. I then contacted the author of the article with my concern that the article may have been in error. The author responded that I had missread the article, in a very nice reply, and, no, the firewire is one way only. He went on at length to explain the article. I then deleted my post from this forum.

I have reread the review several times, and believe my original interpretation to be correct. I see several other members read the article the same way I did.

I invited the author, Dennis Barker, to join the forum. I have not received a second response from him.

The second thing that threw me for a loop was wondering why AVI would run a review on the 30000 if they were not going to report on how well it records in the D-VHS mode. Instead the review only reports on its ability to record in the S-VHS mode, which I have to think that no one cares about (I can get a good S-VHS VCR for a whole lot less than $1129.00). The article does report on the playback of D-VHS recorded tapes, but I cannot find that Mr. Barker states where he got them, which would have been helpful, ie D-Theater.

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