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post #1 of 48 Old 04-21-2009, 04:09 PM - Thread Starter
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OK guys. For 10 years I've been waiting for this if it's what I think it is. If it is, it looks like the holy grail of HD recording (or at least the beginning). I can't believe I can't find a reference to it in this forum on THIS SITE!

http://www.hauppage.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html

It just can't be what I think it is (component HD in + digital audio --> AVCHD Files). If you can get the raw AVCHD files to a PC/Mac, it looks like this + an HDFury2 is about as close to the holy grail as 1080i is gonna get.

This is the guy everybody said was studio stuff only and was WAY cost-prohibitive if it delivers what it promises (we've been talking about wishing we had one of these for 10 years on this board for you newbies).

Please tell me what I'm missing.

HDTV in my home since 1999.
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post #2 of 48 Old 04-21-2009, 04:18 PM
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You're not missing anything. Just realize that it recordings to your computer's hard drive, which means you need a HD STB and Hauppauge HD PVR in the same room with a PC.

It's not as simple, as say, downloading the recordings from the DVR as TiVo has allowed for a few years.
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post #3 of 48 Old 04-21-2009, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Please help me understand how I can DL current HBO-HD and Showtime-HD (and ESPN-HD, et all) content from any existing and functioning HD Tivo.

If people have been doing this for years (archiving Tivo HD content to AVCHD discs), it's news to me.

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post #4 of 48 Old 04-21-2009, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I remember in the wishing threads for a device like this that the experts at the time were saying that syncing the audio was going to be virtually impossible. I'm assuming they've solved this?

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post #5 of 48 Old 04-21-2009, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson-Flyer View Post

Please help me understand how I can DL current HBO-HD and Showtime-HD (and ESPN-HD, et all) content from any existing and functioning HD Tivo.

You can't download recordings from HBOHD and ShowtimeHD on most providers. So the Hauppauge HD PVR would add that "unique" capability. I have no problems downloading content from non-premium HD channels on Comcast.

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Originally Posted by Wilson-Flyer View Post

If people have been doing this for years (archiving Tivo HD content to AVCHD discs), it's news to me.

I've been doing it for about 18 months. Normally, though, I just download recordings to my media server and then play / stream them from there.

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Originally Posted by Wilson-Flyer View Post

I remember in the wishing threads for a device like this that the experts at the time were saying that syncing the audio was going to be virtually impossible. I'm assuming they've solved this?

Yes. The Hauppauge HD PVR has an optical input so it will record the Dolby Digital stream.

I have a Hauppauge HD PVR too. That's how I made this video.
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post #6 of 48 Old 04-21-2009, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
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But you can't get premium content off your HD Tivo and therein lies the rub (and has been for years).

Why would one have to have a PC close by. Looks like you can take a laptop and program it and then walk away and come back and USB the recordings off at your leisure. That's cool enough and simple enough if you can do that.

Looks like a spending spree.

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post #7 of 48 Old 04-21-2009, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson-Flyer View Post

But you can't get premium content off your HD Tivo and therein lies the rub (and has been for years).

Why would one have to have a PC close by. Looks like you can take a laptop and program it and then walk away and come back and USB the recordings off at your leisure. That's cool enough and simple enough if you can do that.

If your notebook has free capacity, you could certainly do that. Just realize that the Hauppauge has no storage of its own and no means to directly connect storage; it records directly to your computer hard drive using computer software.
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post #8 of 48 Old 04-21-2009, 05:54 PM
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One issue that should be brought up here is the matter of recording quality. Since the recorded signal must first be decompressed, then go through a digital to analog conversion, then be reconverted to digital, and then subject to compression on the fly, there is generational loss.

I bought this box when it first came out, and have been thoroughly underwhelmed by its performance. While I could live with the slightly softer image of the recordings from this box (which is to be expected because of the generational loss), my recordings from this device have exhibited a very noticeable (and irritating) motion stuttering that renders it virtually useless. Compression artifacts are also rather noticeable in its recordings.
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post #9 of 48 Old 04-22-2009, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Desmond View Post

One issue that should be brought up here is the matter of recording quality. Since the recorded signal must first be decompressed, then go through a digital to analog conversion, then be reconverted to digital, and then subject to compression on the fly, there is generational loss.

I bought this box when it first came out, and have been thoroughly underwhelmed by its performance. While I could live with the slightly softer image of the recordings from this box (which is to be expected because of the generational loss), my recordings from this device have exhibited a very noticeable (and irritating) motion stuttering that renders it virtually useless. Compression artifacts are also rather noticeable in its recordings.

I have both a C1 and D2 version of the HD PVR. No problems after updating to a HD capable video card. Comparison of the HDNet test patterns on my DVR to a max bitrate HD PVR recording shows very little degradiation. So far I have recorded over 600 GB of movies and am very happy with results. I bought the D2 version so I could use the C1 as a backup in case HAUP has $ problems.
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post #10 of 48 Old 04-22-2009, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

I have both a C1 and D2 version of the HD PVR. No problems after updating to a HD capable video card. Comparison of the HDNet test patterns on my DVR to a max bitrate HD PVR recording shows very little degradiation. So far I have recorded over 600 GB of movies and am very happy with results. I bought the D2 version so I could use the C1 as a backup in case HAUP has $ problems.


Interesting. How do I know what version I'm getting? I doubt I have any control over it but thought I'd ask since you seem to have specified when you ordered somehow.

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post #11 of 48 Old 04-22-2009, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

Comparison of the HDNet test patterns on my DVR to a max bitrate HD PVR recording shows very little degradiation.

Please tell me you didn't just assess performance based on static images.
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post #12 of 48 Old 04-22-2009, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson-Flyer View Post

Interesting. How do I know what version I'm getting? I doubt I have any control over it but thought I'd ask since you seem to have specified when you ordered somehow.

Check the 2 threads in the HTPC section. People are receiving either D2 or E1 versions these days. Haupauge has changed the design several times to fix problems. C1 was the first release and many people had problems with overheating although mine didn't.
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post #13 of 48 Old 04-22-2009, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Please tell me you didn't just assess performance based on static images.

Yes, to compare the resolution test patterns for degradiation. My cable company is apparently one of the few that actually uses enough bandwidth to provide full 1080i. The HDnet test pattern shows this if you know how to read it. The HD PVR copy shows very little degradiation when played back thru a wired internet connection to a PS3.
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post #14 of 48 Old 04-22-2009, 09:48 AM
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Two words: analog hole

When/if that is plugged, this device is virtually useless.

But in the meantime, it does work. Hauppauge is not known for stable, bug free software and the software that comes with this device is no exception. I would not recommend this piece of hardware to computer novices.

I have to close the recording capture app after every time I capture. If I FF or REW the DVR recording, the capture application won't record again, till I close and reopen the program.

Recording quality is adjustable, even at max quality the file sizes are smaller than raw MPEG2 HD videos, since the H.264 format is designed much better and stores data much more efficiently, thus smaller file size.

However the files do play back pretty well. Western Digital makes a $99(on sale) media player that plays back these files very well, over HDMI to any TV/projector, with the original DD5.1 sound.
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post #15 of 48 Old 04-22-2009, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I posted this in the HT forum but decided to get input here too.

Quote:


I have what I think is a rather simple question... with a preface.

I started reading a little on this page and see some pretty intense tech going on here. I'm assuming these are control issues/problems?

Here's what I want.

I record EVERYTHING I want to my DTV HR2x's. Occasionally, I want to archive something like the WDW Christmas Parade in HD for my 4 YO daughter. I forgot to record it Christmas day on my DVHS so here I am stuck with it on my DVR forever using up space or until it crashes and I have to explain to her how I lost it.

All I ever want this device to do for me is this:

I wanna press play on my DVR and press record on my PC running the recorder and record the archive to a laptop's HD. Then, I want to dump the AVCHD to a DVD-R or a BluRay-R for permanent storage so I can play it on a PS3 (today) or maybe a compatible BluRay player one day (future. MAYBE. I'm happy with my PS3s for now). No Editing. No BS'ing around. That's all I want. Period.

Will this thing do this or not and if so, is the content acceptable as HD?


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post #16 of 48 Old 04-22-2009, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ak3883 View Post

Two words: analog hole

When/if that is plugged, this device is virtually useless.

Two words for you: Enjoy waiting.

Have you met HDFury2 yet? I have and I LIKE him. So much, I have 3 of'em!

I'd rather enjoy archiving while we wait. Once I have it, that's it. They can't take it away from me.

I'm firmly in the camp that believes that that bit will never be flipped and even if it is, it will be in some very specific instances and certainly not for broadcast TV. I guess that argument's been going on around here ad-nauseum for 6 years now and this thread's not the place.

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post #17 of 48 Old 04-22-2009, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been on the Hauppauge roller-coaster like some of you sound like you have. I've never known whether they'd be around next week or not after buying one of their products.

That begs the question: Has anybody forund this product from anybody else? I haven't. Have I just not done enough due diligence yet? Is there another one out there?

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post #18 of 48 Old 04-23-2009, 09:56 AM
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I don't think there are any other consumer level devices that record component inputs and encode to digital using H.264.

I am using the hauppauge and love being able to get HD off my cable box with little quality degradation. I'm not sitting around waiting for them to plug the analog hole either! I'm guessing this device is such a niche crowd that they don't care and/or didn't bother to try and stop Hauppauge from releasing it. You can make pretty close to original digital copies of HD material from cable/sat with this thing.
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post #19 of 48 Old 04-29-2009, 11:44 AM
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Has anybody found a better way to edit out commercials from the 1212's ACVHD H.264 TS files? The bundled arcsoft package works marginally but is quite cumbersome. I keep waiting for videoredo to come up with something, but nothing so far. Thanks
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post #20 of 48 Old 04-30-2009, 05:22 AM
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Has anybody found a better way to edit out commercials from the 1212's ACVHD H.264 TS files? The bundled arcsoft package works marginally but is quite cumbersome. I keep waiting for videoredo to come up with something, but nothing so far. Thanks

Check the 2 threads for the HD PVR in the HDPC section. "Search is your friend".
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post #21 of 48 Old 05-09-2009, 06:14 PM
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If the analog hole is ever closed I will simply insert the HDFury2. Monoprice has the price down to $148 and dropping as we speak. This device is to valuable to reject for that reason only. It will record an excellent HD program regardless of copy protection scheme. The drawback is that it is cumbersome in it's present form, and the software that comes with it is not top shelf. It is not full functioned and easy to use like your DRV STB. However, you can make a copy of any program, store it on your computer or a flash drive, and then take it with you to play elsewhere provided you have the software installed. very near the flexibility we all enjoyed in the days of the VHS.

For those that have this device installed - let me ask a question. can you make adjustments to the brightness, color saturation, Hue and contrast via the controls that are within the ArcSoft software? I cannot, those adjustments are inactive on both computers on which I have installed the HD PVR, one running XP, the other running Vista. For me this is the only disappointment I have found, and I have as yet found a solution or work around.
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post #22 of 48 Old 05-11-2009, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kckay View Post

For those that have this device installed - let me ask a question. can you make adjustments to the brightness, color saturation, Hue and contrast via the controls that are within the ArcSoft software? I cannot, those adjustments are inactive on both computers on which I have installed the HD PVR, one running XP, the other running Vista. For me this is the only disappointment I have found, and I have as yet found a solution or work around.

Yes. In the capture application, if you click on the "device settings" button I think it is, it has sliders to adjust color, brightness, etc for recording. It's either the device settings button or format settings button. At least for me, they are not grayed out and I can adjust them.
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post #23 of 48 Old 05-11-2009, 07:07 PM
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On my system the controls within the playback routine are grayed out, as are yours (and inactive of course). The controls within the capture or record routine seem to be active, the slider bars function, however they have no effect on the finishd recording.

The problem, for me is, I have a late model Sony 52" LCD TV, and those same controls are made inactive for the "PC" input. Hence I have no control at all when playing my HD PVR recordings. The colors on every recording I have made so far are very over saturated. This looks like it is going to be a real problem because I have spent much time with Dell without finding a solution and it has been almost a week since I emailed Hauppauge about this problem. They responded saying they would get back to me, but I am beginning to wonder. Any other suggestions?

Thanks
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post #24 of 48 Old 05-12-2009, 11:15 AM
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The moderator on Hauppauge's UK forum says that these controls have never worked. I have been following this product for over a year looking for things like this, have read many reviews, and never seen anything that reveled this shortcoming. IMO this is a knock on Hauppauge - to have chosen TME as their software to include for their product knowing the picture controls didn't work. And perhaps explains why tech support at Hauppauge has not returned my emails.
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post #25 of 48 Old 05-13-2009, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kckay View Post

The moderator on Hauppauge's UK forum says that these controls have never worked. I have been following this product for over a year looking for things like this, have read many reviews, and never seen anything that reveled this shortcoming. IMO this is a knock on Hauppauge - to have chosen TME as their software to include for their product knowing the picture controls didn't work. And perhaps explains why tech support at Hauppauge has not returned my emails.

Choosing TME really has very little to do with it. TME is a freebie and simply lays on top of the Hauppauge HDPVR.

The lack of controls on the capture side of the equation is a result of the way Hauppauge decided to implement the chipset. I don't use TME to record rather choosing to build a recording graph under GraphEdit. Using GraphEdit completly bypasses TME and uses the Hauppauge drivers directly. Even using this approach adjusting these controls has no effect. But to be honest that's fine with me.

I would not recommend adjusting recording controls in order to some how balance playback PQ for a specific kit. Rather I would rely on the default recording settings Hauppauge has chosen (they are very good) and then adjust settings when playing back to fit your needs. The HDPVR recordings do not require TME for playback. It records h.264 to either a .ts file or an .m2ts file. These files can be played back by software players that allow for such adjustments.
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post #26 of 48 Old 05-14-2009, 03:07 PM
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nextoo, can you suggest a software package that can playback the m2ts files
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post #27 of 48 Old 05-15-2009, 12:21 PM
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Media Player Classic is free and works pretty good.

Media Player Classic

It may work for you. Here are the adjustments you may be looking for.



You need to set output to VMR9 for the color controls to work. Here:

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post #28 of 48 Old 05-16-2009, 03:02 PM
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The Media Players classic would not play the files at all on my system - black screen. It did recognize the M2TS files, but would not play them. I have also tried to play them on Media Player 11 (Vista business 32bit) with the Registry patch for TS files installed, and that version played the files, but they were very jerky - simply couldn't keep up with 1080i screen changes. I also tried to play them on Corell's Win DVD player without any luck. That program couldn't even recognize the M2TS files. They advertise their product will play them, and I have read reviews from others that claim the WIN DVD will play them in good fashion, but, again, not on my system. So far the only player I have found that will play the files is the Cyberlink Power DVD 9, and, that program does an excellent job. However it costs $70. I am in he process of trying the Sage TV package that Hauppauge suggest as a third party vendor.

After experiencing the frustration of recording and playback via the new Blu Ray std, I have a new found respect for how difficult it must be to market software for this task. And, evidently there must be a distinct difference in methodology between Arcsoft, and CyberLink and Media Player, Win DVD, and Sage TV products. They all claim they will play the files, but the latter three need more horsepower than the former two. My stytem has the T7200 2GHZ Core 2 Duo processor, The Sage TV, and (evidently) the Media Player and Correll Win DVD require a 3GHZ processor or better. My new found respect is that the ArcSoftware isn't so bad and would in fact be great, like Cyberlink Power DVD, if they had the ability to control the brightness etc.

Finally it might be interesting to some to know that the Media player 11 with the TS file patch installed also lost control of Brightness, contrast, saturation etc, only when playing the TS files.

Thanks nextoo and ak3883
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post #29 of 48 Old 05-16-2009, 06:14 PM
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Kckay - I think I would look at your PC setup as opposed to the various players you are testing.

I suggested Media Player Classic because it is a free player and should do what you require. It does playback m2ts files. If it does not for you then you have something hosed in your PC.

Here are a few pics that show Media Player Classic playing back "The Mummy" recorded using the HDPVR from a satco STB. It is an m2ts file. As shown in the pics.

Each pic has different color control settings.

Here is the first. With the color settings in Media Player Classic set to the defaults.



Here is the second pic with the color saturation set to 0. Notice it is in black and white - zero color saturatiuon.



And finally a pic with the color control bars maxed out.



So it does work. I suspect you may need to spend more time on how your PC is setup as opposed to looking at individual playback software.

Also I should add that Media Player Classic is not a Microsoft product. It has no relationship to Microsoft Windows Media Player.
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post #30 of 48 Old 05-17-2009, 07:37 PM
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nextoo, I am drawing a blank with Media Player classic. I have played with many of the hundreds of variables within the program including the settings you show above - but nothing but a blank screen. M2ts files are listed as a viable file, and the program does find and list the M2ts files I want to play. But after clicking on them I get only a "PLAY" blue box in the upper right hand corner of the black screen. All other standard files I have tried play normally. I have no idea what parameters I might change within Windows. And, I am not sure I would be interested in making any changes there anyway. Could very well be something obvious, One obvious thing is that this is Vista. Even though the program is touted as supporting Vista, I have experienced problems. The most common problem is simply that you need to relearn all over again, how to use your computer. Microsoft has changed everything - once again. And, evidently in the coming months they will be doing it again with Windows 7. Last night I spent 3 hours relearning how to partition and format an external drive. So it goes with Microsoft.

I might try down loading the 64 bit file version. And I might try downloading the stand alone filter - if I had any idea what a stand alone filter WAS. Or if I had any idea how to choose from between the many different filters available.

I would appreciate any other suggestions.
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