Questions about D-VHS esp. Mits - AVS Forum
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Old 02-22-2002, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm interested in getting a new D-VHS unit. After doing a few searches and reading some posts it sounds like that if I went with the new Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U D-VHS I would not be able to watch profession previously recorded movies because it does not have D-Theater. If that is true then that unit is out of the question. I want to be able to record and watch the new D-VHS movies coming out this summer/fall. I am getting the new Mitsubishi WS-65909 HDTV (which has the IEEE 1394 interface) which I have been told can send OTA HD (from it's built in receiver)video to a D-VHS unit. Is the JVC unit the only D-VHS unit that will support D-Theater? If so, is this model HM-DH30000?
Thanks


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Old 02-22-2002, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HDCblGuy
Is the JVC unit the only D-VHS unit that will support D-Theater? If so, is this model HM-DH30000?
JVC developed DTheater and thus far is the only option for DTheater playback. According to JVC, they offered it to other DVHS manufacturers but they declined.

Regardless of the specific model numbers, but if the JVC box does not say DTheater, it won't do it.

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Old 02-22-2002, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Ken. By the way, does the JVC HM-DH30000 by any chance record dolby digital?

-Andrew
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Old 02-22-2002, 08:28 PM
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Depends on what you mean. The JVC records unmodified MPEG2 stream that comes over firewire which includes the AC3 audio. Whatever that AC3 audio is - DD 5.1, DD2.0, etc, it will be recorded.

However when recording from analog inputs, you only have two channel analog audio inputs, hence you only get stereo sound.
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Old 02-22-2002, 10:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone. That's great news.

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Old 02-23-2002, 05:57 PM
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Will the new Mits 65909 with the Mits DVHS firewire deck be able to record DirecTV HD as well as OTA HD?
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Old 02-23-2002, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by KevinYee
Will the new Mits 65909 with the Mits DVHS firewire deck be able to record DirecTV HD as well as OTA HD?
No. There is no Directv HD receiver with firewire outputs available at this time. The integrated HDTV tuner in the 65909 is OTA only.

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Old 02-23-2002, 11:05 PM
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Since this thread referenced the Mitsubishi recorder I'll offer sonme more comments on my ongoing tests with the Mitsubishi-

In the past I had found that some SVHS tapes would not record on my PVHD1000. These same tapes will record when using the Mitsubshi. Then they will playback fine in the Panasonic. I don't know what goot this is to anybody but thought I'd pass it along.

IMHO, the Mitsubishi is an extremely limited DVHS VCR and should only be considered if, you are buying the Mitsubishi package or have a need for a basic low cost dubbing recorder off the Panasonic PVHD1000 and this combination offers pretty reliable dubbing with live monitoring via the DST50.

All tghe way around, the JVC seems to be the better choice assuming you want to spend the extra money and don't mind testing the waters with yet another "not made for each other combination" with the JVC into the Mits HDTV monitor. Yes, the JVC will get you D-Theater but how well will it handshake with the Mitsubishi monitor/promise module.

Seems, as I've previously stated, recording HDTV is a project and one should only attempt it if he is willing to accept the fact that this stuff is not a prime time easy to use system like a simple VHS VCR.
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Old 02-24-2002, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Don Landis
Seems, as I've previously stated, recording HDTV is a project and one should only attempt it if he is willing to accept the fact that this stuff is not a prime time easy to use system like a simple VHS VCR.
How can you say this when Mitsubishi has provided a complete off the shelf OTA HDTV recording solution. While I'm the first to admit the firmware in their integrated RPTV's is not bug free, when mated to the HS-HD2000U D-VHS recorder (with just one fire-wire cable!) , it provides one touch HDTV RECORDING. (that is the name of this forum...)

I've had this setup for about three months now and chuckle when I read some of the posts here. Most people reading this forum don't realize they can purchase an off the shelf working OTA HDTV record & playback solution today!

While JVC does manufacture a D-VHS recorder, what good is it if they don't make devices that provide a high definition recordable source (HD tuner with fire wire output)?

- Ed -
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Old 02-24-2002, 08:30 AM
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Ed,

While it may be true that I can purchase an OTA recording solution now for HiDef, I can only do it your way by tossing out my current HDTV component/RGB input television. I guess I will have to wait, as I cannot justify THAT much of an expense- not to mention the difficulty of getting the monster tv out of the basement!
Even the 169 time mods are pricey for me. I will wait! (AND will continue to visit this forum to see WHEN is the right time to buy the RIGHT equipment for me!)

Judy
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Old 02-24-2002, 08:33 AM
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Once again, another fails to read, pulls a statement out of context and completely misses my point, actually several points.

Here, we like to point out all the facts about how all this stuff works, what is required, as well as it's limitations and merits. Unfortunately, speaking the truth about things is not always appreciated.

I mean no disrespect to your purchase decision. I just feel that the Mits system is not as "complete" a recording solution as you do. I am happy you are happy with it and wish you well. We're all here to have fun with recording. I have the Mits recorder and it does what I need for now. Hopefully it will do more when I can find a proper way to play from it that doesn't cost me too much.
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Old 02-24-2002, 08:44 AM
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Don, I read each of your posts because they are honest, to the point, and are the truth.

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Old 02-24-2002, 10:43 AM
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Just curious, Dave-
How's things coming with the Mits test at 169Time?

Anything new on the direcTV recording for 169Time?

I assume that your work with the JVC is done and that is a slam dunk process now. I was hoping that would go well so priority would be shifted to the DirecTV record.
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Old 02-24-2002, 10:55 AM
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Lets see, no product is every done. Richard is working on a few enhancements for the JVC. It also has a few little issues.

He is got many things going at once. I know time is being spent with the integra 910 version 1 and 2. Getting close.

Havent asked about the Mits lately. If he can get to work, then the mits could be used with the dtc100 and not need a Mits TV.

199 is a much larger project.

Dave
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Old 02-24-2002, 11:10 AM
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Dave:
Will the mod for the Integra units offer any additional capabilities over the UM mod?

HDTV Early Adopter
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Old 02-24-2002, 11:16 AM
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Don seems to have asked the same question that I did in my prior thread, and that is, "How does the Mitsu integrated RPTV work with the JVC 30000 through the firewire port?" I have the 30000 and want to purchase a new RPTV. The Mitsu seems the only way to go, but I hesitate until we get a report on how this combo works (red push and all).

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Old 02-24-2002, 12:17 PM
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Lets see. One can buy a new integra today, not a UM.

I hear the tuner is better.

Question is probably best asked on Delphi where people have been using them. I dont have much first hand experience on any of them.

dave
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Old 02-24-2002, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Don Landis

If you like to sell this Mits system then go to work at Best Buy. I'm sure you'll fit right in. Here, we like to point out all the facts about how all this stuff works
Don,

The personal flame is unwarranted.

What did I say that was untrue? I just tried to point out that the Mitsubishi D-VHS recorder is not "limited" in its own context. When the fire-wire interface is used for I/O, the is no need to build an mpg decoder or component output into the D-VHS recorder.

I never said my setup was perfect, but it does work out of the box and you don't need an engineering degree to operate it.

Since the Mitsubishi and JVC machines are the only currently manufactured consumer HDTV recorders, they beg to be compared.

While at first blush the component output and MPEG decoder on the JVC looks interesting, but if it's used in a system that requires these features, you have a system that CANNOT RECORD HDTV. The JVC can only record HD over a fire-wire port, thus rendering the component output and MPEG decoder redundant.

I feel JVC missed the boat because it would have cost them very little more to add an HDTV tuner to this unit - transforming it into a recordable STB!

I really hope more HD recording products are marketed. Competition will give us all better components at lower prices. Interface hacks to receivers are at best a stopgap measure and will never be as easy to use (or record any better) then an integrated solution.

At least Mitsubishi had the guts to include an end-to-end recording solution in their product lineup.

That said, I would never purchase this recorder if I didn't own a Mitsub. integrated RPTV.

On D-Theatre - Let's be realistic. Unless sales of D-VHS recorders really take off, NOBODY is going to provide pre-recorded software. I'd be willing to bet there are currently fewer than 2,000 D-VHS recorders in the U.S.A., and I don't think anything has changed to create consumer demand for a $1000+ HDTV VCR.

- Ed -
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Old 02-24-2002, 04:46 PM
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Ed- You are correct. I was wrong to "flame" your post for flamming mine.

I will just maintain that there is no solution out yet that is what the average guy is expecting. That is a recorder that will record his programming in HDTV. The Mitsubishi system as you point out is simple and it works but requires all proprietary hardware and this includes the monitor. It also has many restrictions on what can be recorded. In this area you have glossed over the facts. I'm not comparing Mitsubishi with JVC or Panny combo here. Heck my complicated Panny combo can record with one button and I can record more programming sources than the mits, but that is becauise I have rigged it that way.
The point I'm making that many of you fail to understand is that none of these HDTV recording systems work as easily and as versatile as the std VHS VCR's the average person is familiar with. They need to know what you and I already know and that is the Mits will only record some programs but if you watch DishNetwork or DirecTV on that Mits it won't record those HD programs. It's good for OTA only and it may work with the Dish 8VSB system the same way that the DST50 does but I don't recall anyone testing that combo yet. It certainly is not supported.

I will remove my "flame" as it was uncalled for. When I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
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Old 02-25-2002, 07:35 PM
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Just wanted to add my two cents in here...I recently bought the Mits 55869 (fire wire w/internal OTA HD tuner) and the Mits DVHS recorder. I've been recording HBO and ShowTime HD from DishNet as well as the OTA Chicago HD stuff and it works great. The Dish box I have is the 5000 model and the modulator output is channel 3 8VSB and I switch it right into the TV which connects it to the recorder. I also wish I could record off of Direct TV but I'm happy for now with DishNet because Direct has HD Net that Dish doesn't have. I'm a little bumbed that the recorder is not "D-Theater" but I don't buy alot of pre-recorded material.
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Old 02-25-2002, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rabbit Ears


How can you say this when Mitsubishi has provided a complete off the shelf OTA HDTV recording solution. While I'm the first to admit the firmware in their integrated RPTV's is not bug free, when mated to the HS-HD2000U D-VHS recorder (with just one fire-wire cable!) , it provides one touch HDTV RECORDING. (that is the name of this forum...)

- Ed -
Certainly you might propose that a solution that
requires you to buy two new boxes and then shoot
yourself in the head is a working solution, but
don't be suprised if there is no agreement here.
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Old 02-25-2002, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rabbit Ears
[b]
While at first blush the component output and MPEG decoder on the JVC looks interesting, but if it's used in a system that requires these features, you have a system that CANNOT RECORD HDTV. The JVC can only record HD over a fire-wire port, thus rendering the component output and MPEG decoder redundant.
Unless you have a component input TV. Then it makes perfect sense. JVC went for the best compatibility they could get.
Quote:
I feel JVC missed the boat because it would have cost them very little more to add an HDTV tuner to this unit - transforming it into a recordable STB!
It would have been nice, but my greatest need is to record movies off HBO or other.
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Old 02-26-2002, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scott A. Moore

Unless you have a component input TV. Then it makes perfect sense. JVC went for the best compatibility they could get.

It would have been nice, but my greatest need is to record movies off HBO or other.
Scott,

The only way you can record HBO in HD to the JVC is via a fire-wire set top box. Once you have the fire-wire interface, it can also be used to play back the recording, eliminating the need and expense of the built-in component TV output and MPEG decoder.

- Ed -
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Old 02-28-2002, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Don Landis
If you like to sell this Mits system then go to work at Best Buy. I'm sure you'll fit right in. Here, we like to point out all the facts about how all this stuff works
This is just a LITTLE BIT off topic, but as far as I can tell, Best Buy doesn't sell Mitsubishi HD sets, the Mits d-vhs recorder, or any Mitsubishi equipment. Maybe you should have said that he should go work at Sears.

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Old 02-28-2002, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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So do you guys think the JVC HM-DH30000 D-VHS will work with my Mitsubishi WS-65909 HDTV? I would think it would. If it was a JVC HDTV with a Mitsubishi D-VHS I would probably have to worry. Thanks

-Andrew
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Old 03-01-2002, 03:27 AM
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I would suggest you get one on trial for testing but probably the most awkward issue will be control. There is nothing like using a system that was designed from the chassis out for compatibility.

However, it seems to me from limited experience that we have two types if 1394 for DVHS now. Those of the Panasonic PVHD1000 flavor and those of today's standard. There is partial compatibility with the Panasonic of PVHD1000 but much better compatibility with current day standard.
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Old 03-02-2002, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Just wanted to add my two cents in here...I recently bought the Mits 55869 (fire wire w/internal OTA HD tuner) and the Mits DVHS recorder. I've been recording HBO and ShowTime HD from DishNet as well as the OTA Chicago HD stuff and it works great. The Dish box I have is the 5000 model and the modulator output is channel 3 8VSB and I switch it right into the TV which connects it to the recorder. I also wish I could record off of Direct TV but I'm happy for now with DishNet because Direct has HD Net that Dish doesn't have.
OK, I have been browsing this thread and I must post after reading this.

How does the Mitsubishi allow for recording of HD material off DISH? Are you talking through the component outs of the DISH 6000 receiver? Please clarify for me, as this entire thread is over my head (I have only begun to read up on HD recording).

By the end of the year i hope to do two things... have a new HD display (I'll put my 47 inch Panny in the bedroom) and be able to record CBS and ABC in HD, as well ass HBO, Showtime and Dish PPV HD. Time shifting HD content would be a God-send.

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Old 03-02-2002, 02:58 PM
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The 6000 won't work. He has a 5000 with modulator. The Modulator sends out a 8VSB signal on channel 3 or 4 via coax cable to the mits ATSC antenna input, so the mits ATSC tuner is thinking it's an OTA signal and forwards it to the VCR via firewire.

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Old 03-03-2002, 08:33 PM
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Yep, that's what I'm doing and it works quite well. I just installed an OTA/Satelite signal splitter from Rat Shack so the Dish signal is part of a seamless channel scan on the Mits set so no switcher is needed.
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