Horizontally Shacking with D-VHS - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 Old 03-02-2002, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
W.Mayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 12
i had seen in us a lot off hd tapes made with the panasonic stb 50 and 51 and vcr 1000.
most of the tapes have an small horizontally shacking in a 2 or 3 hz freqency.(you need a big screen to see it)
i saw it only from records made from hbo and ppv cannel not from record made from abc nbc cbs or others.
also early ppv movies do not have it.
someone told me that may be it comes from a macrovision signal that is insert to protect making copys from the analog outputs with w-vhs recorders.

i can only hope that the upcoming prerecordet hd tapes from jvc are without this.
did someone observe the same ?
rgds w.mayer
soory for my not perfect english.
W.Mayer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 03-02-2002, 05:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bb1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have not seen what you describe and I have a 8 ft wide screen and over 600 tapes recorded from HBO-HD, Showtime HD and PPV-HD.

The only problem I have is a faint horizontal bar with ABC 720p recordings that are visible when decoded through the Panny 5x, but not visible when decoded with the Victor 30000.

bb
bb1987 is offline  
post #3 of 14 Old 03-03-2002, 04:29 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
W.Mayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 12
bb
can you test it again to make it 100 sure that you not have the shacking?
very easy to see it when you playback a new (last few weeks)recordet hbo hd tape.go to the screen and put your finger on the upper boarder of the picture.than do it with a recording from free tv stations like cbs or other.(both movies not video)
make sure that you have not cover the boarder of the picture.
you should see it.
it is may be possible that some units are sensitiv abaut it some not.
the shacking is not very big on your screen size may be 0,5inch
which equipment you use?
wolfgang
W.Mayer is offline  
post #4 of 14 Old 03-03-2002, 07:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bb1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by W.Mayer
bb
can you test it again to make it 100 sure that you not have the shacking?
very easy to see it when you playback a new (last few weeks)recordet hbo hd tape.go to the screen and put your finger on the upper boarder of the picture.than do it with a recording from free tv stations like cbs or other.(both movies not video)
make sure that you have not cover the boarder of the picture.
you should see it.
it is may be possible that some units are sensitiv abaut it some not.
the shacking is not very big on your screen size may be 0,5inch
which equipment you use?
wolfgang
I have the Sony VPL 10HT projector. And I looked at it again and there is no problem with the image on recently recorded tapes.

bb
bb1987 is offline  
post #5 of 14 Old 03-04-2002, 07:26 AM
Newbie
 
jblair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
W. Meyer,
I have noticed on upconverted material on both HBO-HD and Showtime-HD that there is a vertical blanking interval signal that might cause distortion at the top of the picture if not blanked out or overscanned. I have not seen this VBI signal on true HDTV material from either channel. The VBI signal on Showtime is very close to being in the active video. I have both 16x9 and 4x3 HDTV monitors and I never see the problem on the 16x9 only on the 4x3.

Jay
jblair is offline  
post #6 of 14 Old 03-04-2002, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
W.Mayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 12
jay
thanks for the infomation.
i saw only real hd NOT upconverted tapes.maybe your description have a effect on that.
i have ask people waching hd with the shacking and they tell me i can not see it.so it is maybe up to some(me) sensitiv people .
like the rainbow from dlp some see it some not.
wolfgang
W.Mayer is offline  
post #7 of 14 Old 03-04-2002, 12:09 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 11,175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Liked: 156
I'm really not sure what you mean by "shacking" but if you are referring to a small degree of bending of vertical lines in the very upper inches of the picture, this could very well be a mis adjustment of the sync speed on your monitor. There is usually a setting on most monitors to adjust for "FAST" or "SLOW" sync. Selecting the proper setting for your program source will straighten the vertical lines. This is especially noticeable on a cross hatch test pattern where the pattern derives its sync from the program signal input source and is most common to video tape playback that is not time base stabilized but can show up from other sources as well.
Don Landis is offline  
post #8 of 14 Old 03-04-2002, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
W.Mayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 12
don landis
the display device is a sony g 90 crt projektor and a farudja 5000(first linedoubler for hd 1080i to 1080 p)
i am sure you know the devices because as i read this forum for so long time i see a lot of posts from you and i know your exelent expertise.
as i wrote in my first post from one day to the next one this shacking starts as a sample from ppv recordings that i saw.
still all non ppv programs dont have it.hbo ,sho have it since ever
dish ppv since i think 6 or 7 months.
i have good contacts to some techncal vips from warner bros.
i wii ask them.
i think the disply devices can be not the reason for this .
wolfgang
W.Mayer is offline  
post #9 of 14 Old 03-04-2002, 05:16 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 11,175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Liked: 156
wolfgang-

Please pardon my ignorance but I really do not know the term "shacking" when it comes to CRT displays. If you could describe the look of what you see I may know of it by another name. This is why I suggested the sync fast/slow switch on your scaler or monitor. I do not have the problem here on a humble ECP-4000 projector and I do not use my T-1500 line doubler on the HDTV tape playback.

Bernhard- are you familiar with this term? I my need to hit the books on this one.
Don Landis is offline  
post #10 of 14 Old 03-04-2002, 05:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Glimmie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,014
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 249
This sounds like film weave to me. Older prints are more subject than new IP's. All telecine systems have weave. So do all basic film cameras and optical printers. Now there are pin registured cameras, printers, and telecine systems that can remove most of the weave. But these tools are expensive and only used for effects shots where mattes and composits are done. There no weave can be allowed or the mattes would not registure.

If you look in a theatre you will see it too. It can be quite bad in piss poor theatres where they don't maintain the projector and replace worn gate plates.

Glimmie's HT Page
Being redone - comming soon!

Glimmie is offline  
post #11 of 14 Old 03-04-2002, 05:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Phloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 2,879
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Don Landis
wolfgang-

Please pardon my ignorance but I really do not know the term "shacking" when it comes to CRT displays
I think he means shaking (which I would interpret as jitter of some kind).

Cheers!
DAve.
Phloyd is offline  
post #12 of 14 Old 03-04-2002, 09:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bb1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Don Landis
wolfgang-



Bernhard- are you familiar with this term? I my need to hit the books on this one.
No I am not familiar with this term but dictionary.com is:

intr.v. shacked, shack·ing, shacks
To live or dwell: farm hands shacking in bunkhouses.

Idiom:
shack up Slang
To sleep together or live in sexual intimacy without being married.
To live, room, or stay at a place: I'm shacking up with my cousin till I find a place of my own.
bb1987 is offline  
post #13 of 14 Old 03-04-2002, 09:41 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
dahester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,106
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
'Horizontally shacking' does sound naughty, though. ;)
-D

I drink your milkshake! I drink it up!
dahester is offline  
post #14 of 14 Old 03-05-2002, 03:41 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Don Landis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 11,175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Liked: 156
Shaking- Yes, that does sound right, at least for my diagnosis of his problem in the top portion of the picture. Doesn't film weave move slowly the whole frame, Glimmie? I thought of that too but he said it was in the top part of the picture and also he is using a G90 and I know these RGBHV CRT's are prone to the fast sync problems. That is why they have this adjustment.

Bernhard- I love my home theater here too and I have been known to "shack up" with it in the horizontal late at night. Just ask my wife. :D
Don Landis is offline  
Closed Thread HDTV Recorders

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off