The Official AVS TiVo "Series4" Premiere topic - Page 15 - AVS Forum
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Old 05-31-2010, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by bicker1 View Post

I don't know but I assume that it is pretty much the same way that Netflix offers On Demand programming through the TiVo.

There is no such thing as tru2way cards. tru2way, as it is currently implemented, uses CableCARD. Again, CableCARD has always been bi-directional. It was the TiVo's own limitation in that regard that kept them from being more connected.

I sure would like to know to what you're referring. I keep a very close eye on this industry, and can't figure out what it may be you're thinking of.

Maybe my understanding is incorrect, but I thought the first multi-stream (and single stream) cards were unidirectional, so no PPV or On-Demand from them (with or without a TiVo).

Isn't tru2way supposed to be built into future devices such as HDTVs? Here is some information from 2008: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-9953439-1.html

Are there any devices yet that support this other than a couple of Panasonic plasmas that were released in 2008 in Chicago?

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Old 05-31-2010, 05:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Maybe my understanding is incorrect, but I thought the first multi-stream (and single stream) cards were unidirectional, so no PPV or On-Demand from them (with or without a TiVo).

Again, CableCARDs, themselves, are not unidirectional or bidirectional. They are simply either single-stream or multi-stream. Direction-ality is a characteristic of the host device, not the separable security device.

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Isn't tru2way supposed to be built into future devices such as HDTVs?

Some current HDTVs are tru2way-ready: LINK

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Are there any devices yet that support this other than a couple of Panasonic plasmas that were released in 2008 in Chicago?

Atlanta and Denver now, too. With all the talk about the AllVid gateway, I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see a lot more push toward tru2way.
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Old 05-31-2010, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by bicker1 View Post

Again, CableCARDs, themselves, are not unidirectional or bidirectional. They are simply either single-stream or multi-stream. Direction-ality is a characteristic of the host device, not the separable security device.

Some current HDTVs are tru2way-ready: LINK

Atlanta and Denver now, too. With all the talk about the AllVid gateway, I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see a lot more push toward tru2way.

So 3 whole cities in the US? Doesn't sound like it's too promising (yet).

What I'm saying about CableCARDs is they don't support PPV or VOD. Am I wrong about this? If so, name me a device on the market that uses a CableCARD and supports PPV and VOD.

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Old 05-31-2010, 06:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

So 3 whole cities in the US? Doesn't sound like it's too promising (yet).

And again, due to the FCC's AllVid gateway idea, I don't know if that "yet" is necessary.

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What I'm saying about CableCARDs is they don't support PPV or VOD. Am I wrong about this?

CableCARD has nothing to do with whether PPV or VOD is supported. That's a matter of whether the host device has support for upstream communications.
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Old 05-31-2010, 07:11 PM
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One way or two-way the device has to be CableLabs certified and you can't get a two-way device certified unless you agree to implement tru2way (also known as OCAP).

The license is ridiculous and drastically limits what TiVo or anyone else could do. In fact there are NO 3rd party tru2way devices deployed nationwide and the only ones that do exist are Panasonic TVs in Chicago, Atlanta and Denver. No other 3rd party manufacture has implemented tru2way -- there are plenty of Cisco and Motorola tru2way boxes and the software is pretty much hated by all.

And even if TiVo wanted to implement tru2way, the cable companies have not opened up their networks to 3rd party tru2way boxes yet. They signed a memorandum of understanding promising to do it by July '09 and that date has come and gone.

No, tru2way is no option at all and we are lucky that TiVo and other ce manufacturers have refused to support it and its draconian license agreement. Our best hope now is that the FCC mandates the IP Gateway nick named AllVid, but that won't be for a few more years.

tru2way
http://hd.engadget.com/2009/07/02/ca...s-no-big-deal/
http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/p...go-and-denver/
http://hd.engadget.com/2009/08/18/ok...re-is-tru2way/

AllVid
http://hd.engadget.com/2010/03/17/a-...ndaids-by-thi/

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Old 05-31-2010, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdraw View Post

One way or two-way the device has to be CableLabs certified and you can't get a two-way device certified unless you agree to implement tru2way (also known as OCAP).

The license is ridiculous and drastically limits what TiVo or anyone else could do. In fact there are NO 3rd party tru2way devices deployed nationwide and the only ones that do exist are Panasonic TVs in Chicago, Atlanta and Denver. No other 3rd party manufacture has implemented tru2way -- there are plenty of Cisco and Motorola tru2way boxes and the software is pretty much hated by all.

And even if TiVo wanted to implement tru2way, the cable companies have not opened up their networks to 3rd party tru2way boxes yet. They signed a memorandum of understanding promising to do it by July '09 and that date has come and gone.

No, tru2way is no option at all and we are lucky that TiVo and other ce manufacturers have refused to support it and its draconian license agreement. Our best hope now is that the FCC mandates the IP Gateway nick named AllVid, but that won't be for a few more years.

tru2way
http://hd.engadget.com/2009/07/02/ca...s-no-big-deal/
http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/p...go-and-denver/
http://hd.engadget.com/2009/08/18/ok...re-is-tru2way/

AllVid
http://hd.engadget.com/2010/03/17/a-...ndaids-by-thi/

Great links....thanks Ben. I've got some catching up to do!

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Old 06-01-2010, 06:56 AM
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Ben sums up the problem nicely - tru2way is DOA and limited to cable so our best hope is the new FCC-mandated home IP gateway, which should be required of ALL video providers. But the devil is in the details, as usual, and that is where the ball can be dropped again.
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Old 06-01-2010, 07:06 AM
 
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While it is true that "the ball can be dropped", folks really need to understand what AllVid is about -- otherwise, assuming AllVid is deployed perfectly, as per intention, folks who don't understand what AllVid is supposed to be will end up erroneously complaining that "the ball has been dropped". It is absolutely critical that consumers not assume that AllVid is going to be biased in their own personal favor -- a consumer's nirvana. AllVid outlines what appears to be a fair framework, and as a result it is not biased toward consumers, but rather represents a balance, in which none of the parties get what they want, but rather each gets whatever it is that best serves the overall objectives, i.e., what's best for the market as-a-whole.
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Old 06-01-2010, 01:50 PM
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Yep, AllVid could end up just as bad. One example the NCTA expressed to me recently is that their VOD buy screen will always have to be under their control. So even if there was an AllVid solution, the cable industry could do everything in their power to make it useless.

Then on top of that Congress is talking about revamping the Telecom Act of 1996, which means it's possible all these restrictions would be removed as part of the "reform."

The bottom line that needs to be understood by the FCC and Congress is that the key to innovation is software. So as long as the providers control it, it'll be impossible for 3rd parties to innovate.

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Old 06-01-2010, 01:55 PM
 
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Yet I doubt the FCC is willing to take responsibility for providing the software that all suppliers must use, incurring all the design, implementation, implementation and deployment costs on the public dime. That's the only practical solution that is fair to all sides.
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Old 06-02-2010, 04:56 PM
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Yeah because that's what the FCC had to do to spur inovation in wireless devices in a fair way.

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Old 06-03-2010, 03:53 AM
 
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Because everything that ever will be must always be as everything else already has been.
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Old 06-03-2010, 07:30 AM
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Hey, all. One of my Tivo HDs is having issues so I ordered a Premier, which is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow. Do any of you with Comcast have any recommendations on how I should handle swapping out the M-Card? Is it something that I should do myself or should I have Comcast come out to do it? If I do it myself, are there any tricks to it or information that I should know before hand? Thanks in advance for any advice you guys can provide.
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Old 06-03-2010, 07:33 AM
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Hey, all. One of my Tivo HDs is having issues so I ordered a Premier, which is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow. Do any of you with Comcast have any recommendations on how I should handle swapping out the M-Card? Is it something that I should do myself or should I have Comcast come out to do it? If I do it myself, are there any tricks to it or information that I should know before hand? Thanks in advance for any advice you guys can provide.

Swapping it out is trivial.

The problem is the NEW UNIT will generate some NEW NUMBERS.

I would ask your local Comcast Office what their preference is?
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Old 06-03-2010, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by bsk4life View Post

Hey, all. One of my Tivo HDs is having issues so I ordered a Premier, which is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow. Do any of you with Comcast have any recommendations on how I should handle swapping out the M-Card? Is it something that I should do myself or should I have Comcast come out to do it? If I do it myself, are there any tricks to it or information that I should know before hand? Thanks in advance for any advice you guys can provide.


This thread might be helpful.
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Old 06-03-2010, 09:54 AM
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Thank you for the link, DaverJ. That thread had some useful info in it. I think I'll try to make an appointment for Comcast to come out the day after tomorrow and just cancel it if I get it working on my own tomorrow.
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:24 AM
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anyone had an digital audio cutout issues with their Premieres? I moved recently, so I wasn't sure if it was the cable or the Tivo. I assume it's the cable (Comcast) but I just thought I'd ask.
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Old 06-03-2010, 01:42 PM
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Having a problem that Comcast haven't been able to resolve yet buy maybe someone here knows the answer. I'm in Lafayette CO (80026). I have an activated Tivo Premier that Comcast just came out and installed a MS cablecard into. We subscribed to the digital starter package + HD and also got a full service box. The full service box gets HD channels in the 600s OK but the Tivo won't. The Tivo will get all of the SD channels in the digital starter package and the HD locals in the 650s but not the HD channels. Both the Comcast tech and myself re-ran the guided setup a couple of times and did channel scans but still get the HD channels. Comcast tech says signal is OK and service is OK (because full-service box gets HD channels). He even thinks the cable card is OK but the problem eludes him. We're trying to get another cable card but they're apparently not easy for Comcast techs to get a hold of.
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Old 06-03-2010, 02:00 PM
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The Tivo will get all of the SD channels in the digital starter package and the HD locals in the 650s but not the HD channels.

Top of my head, I would guess that Comcast doesn't have the billing information correct for your cable card. Could it be possible that whoever entered the info for your cablecard didn't authorize all the proper channels?

EDIT: another though - would you need a tuning adapter for your area?
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Old 06-07-2010, 10:06 AM
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Anyone tried an HDfury with the Premiere (or with the TivoHD) to bypass CP for transferring shows to a PC with kmttg ?
Here TWC imposes CP on virtually all cable channels, except local broadcasts as mandated by the FCC. For those I prefer OTA (less compression) so not an issue.

Currently use TivoHD with CC and TA and a HD PVR for transfers. Assume that will work with the Premiere as well.

My interest in the HDfury is for future proofing in the event the analog hole gets plugged. Have read in various posts that would not affect the HDfury.

BTW, Monoprice has an attractive price for the HDfury2

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Old 06-07-2010, 11:15 AM
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After reviewing the circumstances in my post here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=440

It seems there is no way to speed up transfers of CP programs from the Tivo to the PC by using the Premiere.
There are no programs like kmttg that will bypass CP so HDPVR or HDFury are the only way.
But these only work by playing the CP program which happens in real time. While this faster than using kmttg with the TivoHD it is still time consuming and the Premiere would do nothing to alleviate that.

While there are not many programs worth archiving the chief problem arises from Tivo's nasty habit of striping recordings on both the internal and external drive.
Switching to a Premiere would lose everything since parts are on the WD 500GB expander. Moreover I would likely switch to the 1 TB expander as well.

Looks like the proverbial 'between a rock and a hard place' dilemma unless it is possible to directly copy CP programs from the HD to the premiere when both are online on my 1GB hardwired network.
Any one know if that is possible ?

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Old 06-07-2010, 01:18 PM
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Looks like the proverbial 'between a rock and a hard place' dilemma unless it is possible to directly copy CP programs from the HD to the premiere when both are online on my 1GB hardwired network.
Any one know if that is possible ?

Whenever this discussion has come up, it has always been written that CP programs cannot be transferred between two TiVo's for MRV. That's been one of the knocks against TiVo vs. Moxi, because Moxi has a streaming option for MRV that works for CP content (since a second copy is not being made just streamed).

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Old 06-07-2010, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
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Whenever this discussion has come up, it has always been written that CP programs cannot be transferred between two TiVo's for MRV. That's been one of the knocks against TiVo vs. Moxi, because Moxi has a streaming option for MRV that works for CP content (since a second copy is not being made just streamed).

Thanks, that settles the issue for me.
Not interested in Moxi, love the OTA tuner in the HD.
Moreover streaming is not copying or moving to the PC.

From another forum:

Quote:


The only way around that is either an analog copy or a coughpromhackedtivocough ....

Not interested in that method either.

Will stay with the HD at this time.

BTW how is your Sony HD DVR, my HDD250 is still working with full listings thanks to TWC pass thru of XETV transmitting the analog TVGOS.

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Old 06-07-2010, 08:50 PM
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BTW how is your Sony HD DVR, my HDD250 is still working with full listings thanks to TWC pass thru of XETV transmitting the analog TVGOS.

You must have me confused with someone else. I do not have a Sony, only a TiVo HD -- OTA-only.

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Old 06-10-2010, 10:33 PM
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(Sorry if this has been addressed, can't bring myself to read the whole thread...)

Does the Netflix streaming work differently, i.e., BETTER, on the Premiere than compared to the old S3 ?

I know all about the wired vs wireless issue (which is true regardless of device). But I know that the PC version has dynamic bitrate whereas the original Tivo software does not.
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Old 06-17-2010, 08:29 AM
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I can not compare since I never had a TIVO until the Premiere however recent updates now allow FF,RW and position memory that was lacking initially
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Old 06-17-2010, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Are there any devices yet that support this other than a couple of Panasonic plasmas that were released in 2008 in Chicago?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bicker1 View Post

Some current HDTVs are tru2way-ready: LINK

Atlanta and Denver now, too. With all the talk about the AllVid gateway, I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see a lot more push toward tru2way.

Chicago and Denver metro areas were rolled out in Oct. '08; with Panasonic TVs from April '08.
Atlanta metro was rolled out in ~March '09.
Boston metro was announced as 'soon', in Dec. '09; but Panasonic doesn't list it, so I guess it hasn't been rolled out there yet?

Also, there have been no updates to the tru2way TVs, that are now two model years out of date, and way overpriced.
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Old 06-18-2010, 05:00 AM
 
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If customers don't buy the sets, at a price that makes it worthwhile for CE manufacturers to invest in offering that technology, then we deserve not to have it available to us.
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Old 06-19-2010, 08:29 AM
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I have never owned a Tivo, but I am very close to buying this thing for install when we move to Jersey City next month. It's either Crapcast (Comcast) or DirecTV and while I don't like either company, I am thinking it will be easier to have internet and TV with the same company. Add a reportedly superb DVR to the mix (this Tivo) and maybe it is the right choice.

We won't have a hard phone line in the house, so I assume I'll have to hook the Tivo up via Ethernet.

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Old 06-19-2010, 09:22 AM
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It's either Crapcast (Comcast) or DirecTV and while I don't like either company, I am thinking it will be easier to have internet and TV with the same company. Add a reportedly superb DVR to the mix (this Tivo) and maybe it is the right choice.

Why isn't Dish in the mix? The new 922 DVR is one of the best DVRs I've ever used and it has a built in Slingbox.

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