The Official AVS TiVo "Series4" Premiere topic - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 3342 Old 06-19-2010, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by bdraw View Post

Why isn't Dish in the mix? The new 922 DVR is one of the best DVRs I've ever used and it has a built in Slingbox.

Yeah, I too would like to hear the response to that question. Could it have anything to do with Dish's reputation for compressing the life out of their HD?

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post #452 of 3342 Old 06-19-2010, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

I have never owned a Tivo, but I am very close to buying this thing for install when we move to Jersey City next month. It's either Crapcast (Comcast) or DirecTV and while I don't like either company, I am thinking it will be easier to have internet and TV with the same company. Add a reportedly superb DVR to the mix (this Tivo) and maybe it is the right choice.

We won't have a hard phone line in the house, so I assume I'll have to hook the Tivo up via Ethernet.

Yes you want Ethernet. Besides the Premiere does not have a modem in it. You would need to get the TiVo USB modem for dialup but then you also wouldn't be able to use most of it's features since it needs an internet connection.

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post #453 of 3342 Old 06-19-2010, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by bdraw View Post

Why isn't Dish in the mix? The new 922 DVR is one of the best DVRs I've ever used and it has a built in Slingbox.

Because it would = a new dish install on their roof and that is a no-go for launch. DirecTV or Comcast are the two choices.

UPDATE: Let me add this to the conversation because I really don't know enough about this unit...

The situation is this. Owners of place I will be renting late July had DirecTV. They now live elsewhere. Dishes were on the roof. Current renters have DirecTV and will move upstairs (2nd floor) and bring their account with them.

Called DirecTV and they say no problem using the existing dishes for a new account. No charge to install the apartment. No doubt it's inexpensive for the first year.

However, I was actually starting to lean towards Tivo Premiere with Comcast because of no contract and combining with internet, but the TiVo does not have a STOP button...??? WTF?!

I use the Stop button on my current (and all past) DVR's more than any other button. Seriously. My wife schedules so many recordings that they conflict almost everything, so I am always hitting STOP on her stupid recordings (that she will never watch anyway) in order to watch Live TV.

No STOP button = not a possible solution. I am just stunned that anyone can say TiVo rocks if there is not ability to stop live recordings. Am I misunderstanding things? Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Comcast's house DVR is complete GARBAGE. I hate my Time Warner SA8300, but it's sheer brilliance compared to the paperweight Comcast provides. Ugh.

I honestly feel like no solution will make me happy. I want Fios, but they have zero plans for getting into Jersey City.

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post #454 of 3342 Old 06-19-2010, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

Because it would = a new dish install on their roof and that is a no-go for launch. DirecTV or Comcast are the two choices.

UPDATE: Let me add this to the conversation because I really don't know enough about this unit...

The situation is this. Owners of place I will be renting late July had DirecTV. They now live elsewhere. Dishes were on the roof. Current renters have DirecTV and will move upstairs (2nd floor) and bring their account with them.

Called DirecTV and they say no problem using the existing dishes for a new account. No charge to install the apartment. No doubt it's inexpensive for the first year.

However, I was actually starting to lean towards Tivo Premiere with Comcast because of no contract and combining with internet, but the TiVo does not have a STOP button...??? WTF?!

I use the Stop button on my current (and all past) DVR's more than any other button. Seriously. My wife schedules so many recordings that they conflict almost everything, so I am always hitting STOP on her stupid recordings (that she will never watch anyway) in order to watch Live TV.

No STOP button = not a possible solution. I am just stunned that anyone can say TiVo rocks if there is not ability to stop live recordings. Am I misunderstanding things? Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Comcast's house DVR is complete GARBAGE. I hate my Time Warner SA8300, but it's sheer brilliance compared to the paperweight Comcast provides. Ugh.

I honestly feel like no solution will make me happy. I want Fios, but they have zero plans for getting into Jersey City.

Calgon, take me away!!!!

Yes, you can stop live recordings. You press the record button and then choose the stop option.
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post #455 of 3342 Old 06-20-2010, 04:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

... but the TiVo does not have a STOP button...???

It does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

Comcast's house DVR is complete GARBAGE. I hate my Time Warner SA8300, but it's sheer brilliance compared to the paperweight Comcast provides. Ugh.

You've got to be kidding. Comcast generally uses Motorola DCx- DVRs and they're far superior to the SA8300s afaic. By a mile. Ten miles perhaps.

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I honestly feel like no solution will make me happy.

A lot of folks feel that way about a great many things.
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post #456 of 3342 Old 06-20-2010, 06:56 AM
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RE: Motorola DVR... The unit I played with in Jersey City was severely lacking in modern software/firmware. Everything was disabled. It was nothing like the Motorola I had seen on the other side of Manhattan. That's the key... How updated is the firmware on the unit.

Time Warner SA8300 firmware in my part of Manhattan is the best I have seen on an SA8300. Not terrific, but functional and stable. The only problems I have with it are: Inability to ff more than 3X speed. Inability to program a recording to start late (like 1 minute late) or end early. I would like to end some shows 1 minute early and start them 1 minute late (the first and last minute are just filler/promos) to avoid conflicts with recording. If I have two programs recording at the 8 PM hour and then two at the 9 PM hour, the SA8300 sometimes freaks out and won't record both 9 PM shows because it thinks there are not enough tuners available. It is exceedingly annoying.

As for the TiVo, I asked the question because the pictures of the remote make it clear there is no Stop button. Now if you can hit record and it brings up a prompt that makes it easy to then hit STOP, well then that is different.

I wish I could find a place that would make it possible for me to play with one of the new TiVos. Will have to scout around Manhattan this week.

What I may do is buy the TiVo this week and try it out on OTA material. Mess around with it. See how well it works. If I don't like it, I'll just return the thing. I know I want to like it. I just worry about all the bad reviews I keep seeing with reports on buggy software and crashing.

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post #457 of 3342 Old 06-20-2010, 08:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

RE: Motorola DVR... The unit I played with in Jersey City was severely lacking in modern software/firmware.

And for full disclosure, the last SA8300 I worked with was in New Egypt NJ, about a year ag. Perhaps things have changed since then, but the UI reminded me of some 8-bit personal computers.

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Everything was disabled.

I'm sure that's hyperbole. I haven't read of a single DVR that didn't provide the basic feature of offering the ability to scheduled recordings from a program guide. Other features may or may not be available.

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Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

As for the TiVo, I asked the question because the pictures of the remote make it clear there is no Stop button. Now if you can hit record and it brings up a prompt that makes it easy to then hit STOP, well then that is different.

Sorry that my earlier reply was so pithy in this regard -- I was getting late for church.

The point is that you can hit practically any button and it will stop a recording. I use Channel Up as my Stop button, typically. Changing the channel using the numeric keypad will. Anything will. The point is that there is no need to worry about stopping a recording in process. Just do what you want to do. If there is a recording in process interfering with what you want to do, TiVo will tell you and ask you whether you want to do what you are trying to do, or just let the recording continue.

And if want to use the other tuner, just press the Live TV button to switch tuners, then execute the commands for what you want to do.

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Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

I just worry about all the bad reviews I keep seeing with reports on buggy software and crashing.

I just bought a new plasma television, and went through the same thing. If you believe random reviews, you'd never buy anything ever. If someone sells something, there will be a whole host of people online ready to bash it into the depths of the abyss.

Read professional reviews, from authoritative sources. That'll give you a clearer, but still not perfectly clear view (since, after all, such reviews are written by people who are best described as "critics").
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post #458 of 3342 Old 06-20-2010, 07:57 PM
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I just bought a new plasma television, and went through the same thing. If you believe random reviews, you'd never buy anything ever. If someone sells something, there will be a whole host of people online ready to bash it into the depths of the abyss.

Read professional reviews, from authoritative sources. That'll give you a clearer, but still not perfectly clear view (since, after all, such reviews are written by people who are best described as "critics").

I have read reviews here, other forums, CNET, Gizmodo, etc. etc. No doubt that this thing is buggy for some. Bugy hard drives = trouble. So I need to be cautious.

I just wish I could test the thing out without buying it. Two Best Buys I hit today have a standard demo recording playing and you can't stop it. So I have no way of mucking around. Do I spend $300 on the thing, subscribe for one month and bring it to my current Manhattan apartment and get Time Warner Cable out here with a Cable Card? Get it installed then try it out for four weeks and if I like it, keep it for the move to Jersey? Just the idea of attempting to get Time Warner to help me out makes my mind splinter. They are so so soooo terrible. Of course, aren't they all?

Stability is important to me. I do like the idea of a box that is highly reliable, even if a bit slow or outdated.


By the way, when I saw everything was disabled on the DVR, it just means that it was lacking a lot of advanced features you would find on any other DVR. It was clunky and just OLD. Kind of like comparing a lawnmower to a BMW.

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post #459 of 3342 Old 06-21-2010, 03:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

I have read reviews here, other forums, CNET, Gizmodo, etc. etc. No doubt that this thing is buggy for some.

I'm puzzled what reviews you could be referring to. I've never seen a professional review that compared the TiVo to other DVRs that said that TiVo was the one that was buggy.

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Bugy hard drives = trouble.

Huh? Hard drive are buggy, I suppose you could say, but all DVRs have hard drives. What's the issue?
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post #460 of 3342 Old 06-21-2010, 05:02 AM
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Do I have to do a dissertation? The internet is littered with posts/reviews stating the thing is buggy. The HD interface can be slow and freeze, causing reboots. There is talk of Hard Drive failures and numerous people have had to replace the unit after days or just weeks of use (pretty much every site out there has posts like that).

I am reading this constantly, so why shouldn't I be concerned?

Yes, most new hardware has such problems, so it's my job to find out how serious the situation is and if it's just a loud vocal minority that are suffering, or if it is widespread. That is no easy task when you have a community that will defend the TiVo to their dying breath. It's hard to get to the truth.

Finding fault with my questions is not going to be of help.

Also, many of the reviews I read from "respected" places were done in a huge rush, back on March 24th in an effort to be first. It would be great to find a comprehensive review made in May or even this month, as so many updates have been made to the product.

Anyone in Manhattan know of a place where you can actually test drive a TiVo Premiere instead of just watching the stupid demo video?

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post #461 of 3342 Old 06-21-2010, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

Do I have to do a dissertation? The internet is littered with posts/reviews stating the thing is buggy. The HD interface can be slow and freeze, causing reboots. There is talk of Hard Drive failures and numerous people have had to replace the unit after days or just weeks of use (pretty much every site out there has posts like that).

I am reading this constantly, so why shouldn't I be concerned?

Yes, most new hardware has such problems, so it's my job to find out how serious the situation is and if it's just a loud vocal minority that are suffering, or if it is widespread. That is no easy task when you have a community that will defend the TiVo to their dying breath. It's hard to get to the truth.

Finding fault with my questions is not going to be of help.

Also, many of the reviews I read from "respected" places were done in a huge rush, back on March 24th in an effort to be first. It would be great to find a comprehensive review made in May or even this month, as so many updates have been made to the product.

Anyone in Manhattan know of a place where you can actually test drive a TiVo Premiere instead of just watching the stupid demo video?

I've used six TiVo Premieres on a regular basis since they were first released by TiVo. I'm having no problems with any of them. Since the current firmware update, I have had zero reboots. Prior to that firmware, several of my boxes had only one reboot, and that was all within 30 minutes of each other.

As far as hard drives. I've owned over two dozen TiVos since 2001 and never had an issue with any of the hard drives. Although I did upgrade the hard drives in all those boxes to higher capacity drives.

I have not upgraded any of my Premieres to a higher capacity hard drive yet. But I do have one 2TB drive on the way from dvr_dude that I will be putting in one of my non XL boxes.

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post #462 of 3342 Old 06-21-2010, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

Do I have to do a dissertation? The internet is littered with posts/reviews stating the thing is buggy. The HD interface can be slow and freeze, causing reboots. There is talk of Hard Drive failures and numerous people have had to replace the unit after days or just weeks of use (pretty much every site out there has posts like that).

I am reading this constantly, so why shouldn't I be concerned?

Yes, most new hardware has such problems, so it's my job to find out how serious the situation is and if it's just a loud vocal minority that are suffering, or if it is widespread. That is no easy task when you have a community that will defend the TiVo to their dying breath. It's hard to get to the truth.

Finding fault with my questions is not going to be of help.

Also, many of the reviews I read from "respected" places were done in a huge rush, back on March 24th in an effort to be first. It would be great to find a comprehensive review made in May or even this month, as so many updates have been made to the product.

Anyone in Manhattan know of a place where you can actually test drive a TiVo Premiere instead of just watching the stupid demo video?

Matt,

I have a review upcoming in a future issue of Home Theater Magazine. I finished the review earlier this month and used the Premiere exclusively for over 2 months. Is the Premiere perfect? Far from it. Is is better than the CableCo box? Yes. I'm not a big fan of the HD menus because they are clunky, but with every TiVo update, they get more user friendly. I would suggest using the "classic menus" until they finally get the HD ones fixed, but the DVR itself works quite well.

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post #463 of 3342 Old 06-21-2010, 10:13 AM
 
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Do I have to do a dissertation? The internet is littered with posts/reviews stating the thing is buggy.

No, you just need to accept that you can find people criticizing everything on the face of the earth on the Internet, without any relationship between the ability to find such criticisms and the reality of the situation. You need to rely on comparisons. Absent that, how could you know whether TiVo is anything other than the best?

To be clear, they're not buggy.

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That is no easy task when you have a community that will defend the TiVo to their dying breath.

That's life. Again, what I told you before was to go find professional comparisons with the alternatives. Don't rely on random complaints; you cannot know how significant they are.

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Finding fault with my questions is not going to be of help.

Saying that they're buggy isn't a question. It's an assertion. That's the problem. If you asked if they were buggy, then we'd tell you - no - not in the way you say.
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post #464 of 3342 Old 06-21-2010, 10:15 AM
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guys: could you carry on a technical discussion without bashing one another?

that way the thread stays open and you can continue to participate

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post #465 of 3342 Old 06-21-2010, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

Do I have to do a dissertation? The internet is littered with posts/reviews stating the thing is buggy. The HD interface can be slow and freeze, causing reboots. There is talk of Hard Drive failures and numerous people have had to replace the unit after days or just weeks of use (pretty much every site out there has posts like that).

I am reading this constantly, so why shouldn't I be concerned?

Yes, most new hardware has such problems, so it's my job to find out how serious the situation is and if it's just a loud vocal minority that are suffering, or if it is widespread. That is no easy task when you have a community that will defend the TiVo to their dying breath. It's hard to get to the truth.

Finding fault with my questions is not going to be of help.

Also, many of the reviews I read from "respected" places were done in a huge rush, back on March 24th in an effort to be first. It would be great to find a comprehensive review made in May or even this month, as so many updates have been made to the product.

Anyone in Manhattan know of a place where you can actually test drive a TiVo Premiere instead of just watching the stupid demo video?

If you read those threads closely you will find just as many folks saying theirs works. I've stated many times (at tivocomunity) that mine has not had the problems others have seen. All 3 are working as they should. Yes, the GUI is not the best, yet, but it does work good enough. Even in this state, it beats the MOTO boxes I had from Verizon.
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post #466 of 3342 Old 06-21-2010, 11:07 AM
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I'm using the HD menus, and aside from occasional speed bumps, it works fine. No lockups or reboots to speak of.

I wish the HD interface was snappier, and that the overlay info banner,guide and deeper menus were also SD. I'm looking forward to the day when these become a reality, but until then (if it ever happens), I'm still enjoying my TiVo Premiere.


Sub-1080p/60fps is not next-gen.


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post #467 of 3342 Old 06-21-2010, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
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guys: could you carry on a technical discussion without bashing one another?

that way the thread stays open and you can continue to participate

Thank you. I was beginning to feel like you had to be an expert to be allowed to post in this topic.

Now back on topic, I just spent a frustrating hour on the phone with Comcast attempting to find out their channel lineups, fees, etc. What a horrific company. Time Warner is bad enough, but this is just beyond worse.

I may just be forced to go with DirecTV because of the Comcast pricing. It's insanely high in the long term.

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post #468 of 3342 Old 06-21-2010, 01:41 PM
 
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Keep in mind that DirecTV does not comply with any published standards for open-access, so the TiVo Premiere would not work with DirecTV service.

A new DirecTiVo is supposedly on its way, but no release date rumored, yet, as far as I've read.
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post #469 of 3342 Old 06-21-2010, 04:50 PM
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Keep in mind that DirecTV does not comply with any published standards for open-access, so the TiVo Premiere would not work with DirecTV service.

A new DirecTiVo is supposedly on its way, but no release date rumored, yet, as far as I've read.

Yes, I am aware of that. It's too bad, really. Oh well.

But the HR24 looks to be so superior to the average cable box that it seems a good choice for me.

Had a long talk with my wife today and she wants to go the DTV route. I think I may just go ahead and agree with her and that will be that.

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post #470 of 3342 Old 06-21-2010, 05:21 PM
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Edited by me.

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post #471 of 3342 Old 06-22-2010, 05:57 AM
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What I would give to see that report right now! I need to make a decision in days, not weeks or months.

For me and my six Premieres, I use the HD menus all the time and have no issues. Of course they could be faster, but they are pretty quick right now. Speeds like in the Demo video TiVo has with the HD interface. Although some people are having issues with slow menus speeds, none of my six boxes have those issues. I'm also using a 35/35 internet connection but that doesn't seem to matter much. Since when I took a couple of Premieres to my girlfriends house, with her 1mbs DSL, the Premieres were only slightly slower with the slow internet connection.

And with the Premiere, the transfer rates are much faster. I'm getting around 90mbs to 92mbs transfer rates between TiVos and over 60mbs transfer rates to a PC when using KTMMG. With TiVo desktop it's a little slower, but still much faster than the series 3 boxes.

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post #472 of 3342 Old 06-22-2010, 06:03 AM
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I want to thank those of you who were helpful to me. It's much appreciated.

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post #473 of 3342 Old 06-22-2010, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

Yes, I am aware of that. It's too bad, really. Oh well.

But the HR24 looks to be so superior to the average cable box that it seems a good choice for me.

Had a long talk with my wife today and she wants to go the DTV route. I think I may just go ahead and agree with her and that will be that.

The HR2x are decent. I had them prior to moving to FIOS (had D* for 12 years). I still like TiVo better, but D* is a close second. D* is also a decent company to deal with. Good luck.
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post #474 of 3342 Old 06-22-2010, 09:08 AM
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And with the Premiere, the transfer rates are much faster. I'm getting . . . over 60mbs transfer rates to a PC when using KTMMG.

That is the one thing the Premier has over the TiVo HD that I covet. The best I can get for TiVo HD --> PC is 13Mbps.

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post #475 of 3342 Old 06-22-2010, 08:24 PM
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A few basic questions from potential purchaser.

My use would be strictly as a glorified VCR. OTA only. Internet connection capped at 10Gb/month and speed at best 2Mbps. Wireless.

How much does it dl per week for guide updates?

What other online usage is there except for firmware updates?

How large are the FW updates?

Is the wireless reliable?

What does it do if it can't find a connection?

I receive channels from 2 DMAs - is it smart enough to get them from my zip, and if not, can it take two zips (i.e. remember the first and add the second.)

If I bust my usage cap I'm toast, and I require both zips or there's no point, so thanks for any info there.

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post #476 of 3342 Old 06-23-2010, 05:30 AM
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A few basic questions from potential purchaser.

My use would be strictly as a glorified VCR. OTA only. Internet connection capped at 10Gb/month and speed at best 2Mbps. Wireless.

If all you are looking for is a "glorified VCR" strictly for OTA and Internet connectivity/usage is an issue for you, take a look at the DTVPal DVR. It's half the price of the TiVo and doesn't require an Internet connection. It does not have all the extended features of a TiVo (most of which require a network/Internet connection), the guide data is incomplete and spotty, the recording function can be unreliable, and it has a number of other quirks that can usually be worked around. But it can be programmed manually like a VCR, costs half the price of a TiVo and requires no Internet connectivity to function.

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post #477 of 3342 Old 06-23-2010, 06:08 AM
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Anyone looking for a glorified VCR does not need a TiVo. Of course TiVo is many, many levels above a VCR. The point of teh DVR is to record things ona regular basis without the need for user intervention like you needed with a VCR. And TiVo does this superbly.
IN nine years of using TiVos I can count the number of shows I've missed on one hand. While my neighbors with their cable company DVRs(Comcast and FiOS) typically miss that many shows every few months

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post #478 of 3342 Old 06-23-2010, 10:57 AM
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If all you are looking for is a "glorified VCR" strictly for OTA and Internet connectivity/usage is an issue for you, take a look at the DTVPal DVR. It's half the price of the TiVo and doesn't require an Internet connection. It does not have all the extended features of a TiVo (most of which require a network/Internet connection), the guide data is incomplete and spotty, the recording function can be unreliable, and it has a number of other quirks that can usually be worked around. But it can be programmed manually like a VCR, costs half the price of a TiVo and requires no Internet connectivity to function.

I've had the DTVPal for a year or so and your assessment is spot on, plus in my case I have no guide data other than at best 24 hours so my programming is almost exclusively manual. I don't get used to the workarounds, I get more and more frustrated at having to do them.

Also, I've been on dialup until recently so TiVo was out because of that. Now with a slow, but still 20 times faster than dialup connection, the advantages of name based programming is enticing.

I don't care about the network capabilities because my online experience doesn't ever include that sort of thing because it can't. But the increased sophistication of the TiVo just in basic timeshifting, storage capacity and name searching is enough for me to want it.

Problems - usage cap and require two DMAs. If I can't use two zip codes, there's no point. If it downloads say 200Mb a day, there's no point.

I've been thinking of emailing TiVo to ask about the dl size - think I'd get a useful response? I haven't checked out their forum yet.

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post #479 of 3342 Old 06-23-2010, 11:10 AM
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I'm not sure about the amount but the guide data is not alot. I know each show I download on my TiVos, Like Dr. Who in HD from Amazon, uses many many times more bandwidth than the guide data would.

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post #480 of 3342 Old 06-23-2010, 11:15 AM
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Problems - usage cap and require two DMAs. If I can't use two zip codes, there's no point. If it downloads say 200Mb a day, there's no point.

I don't know about usage cap, but I'm pretty sure when I set up the Premiere it asked if I wanted to put in a secondary zip code.


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