The Official AVS TiVo "Series4" Premiere topic - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 3371 Old 10-28-2010, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

... I have no problem with the SD menus on the TivoHD ...

... I don't see a compelling reason to upgrade from a perfectly operating and stable HD to a Premier, as it sits today. I do a lot of TiVo --> PC transfers with a sustained rate of 13-14Mbps, so a 2X increase doesn't excite me.

I completely understand those who have no compelling reason to replace a perfectly working TivoHD or S3. I was in the same frame of mind and only upgraded because I got extremely tired of having a completely full TivoHD. The PremiereXL has solved that problem (for the next couple of months anyway ). However, I am surprised at how much the Premiere has improved my overall TV experience.

As has been mentioned, the SD menus do look sharp and are easy to read because they are so uncluttered. The fact that the Premiere has HD menus would not be that important if they were just HD versions of the same menus. What makes the new HD menus interesting is that they allow for the Discovery Bar and more information about the show that's been recorded. I could see calling this eye candy, but I find it sort of useful - particularly when I'm looking at the "suggested" recordings.

I do have to disagree with you about the speed increase: I am very excited by it! I get sustained speeds of about 30 MBps even when my Tivo is recording shows and this makes a huge difference to me. I use kmttg to download shows for time-shifting to my PC and streambaby to pull them to my Tivo when I want to watch them. With my Premiere I can browse recorded shows on my PC, pull a show to my Tivo, and watch it in real time. Previously I had to wait for at least half the show to be transferred to Tivo before I could watch it. That meant I was waiting an hour and a half before watching a football game. Now I just start the transfer and then start watching.

So, I am very happy with the Premiere. It is stable, relatively fast, and is even quieter than my TivoHD. Would I replace a perfectly working TivoHD XL with a Premiere? Probably not now. But if I were buying a new Tivo right now, I would not even consider a TivoHD at half the price.
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post #722 of 3371 Old 10-28-2010, 09:06 AM
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I transfer from one premiere to another over wired Coax (MoCA) so fast that I can transfer an hour show in 10-12 minutes. Way way faster than I could ever skim through it.
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post #723 of 3371 Old 10-28-2010, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyrax View Post

I completely understand those who have no compelling reason to replace a perfectly working TivoHD or S3. I was in the same frame of mind and only upgraded because I got extremely tired of having a completely full TivoHD.

But you can easily solve that problem with a hard drive upgrade on the Tivo HD, at a cost of $60 or less for a 1TB drive. 2TB upgrades are also possible for around $100.

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Originally Posted by Hyrax View Post

So, I am very happy with the Premiere. It is stable, relatively fast, and is even quieter than my TivoHD. Would I replace a perfectly working TivoHD XL with a Premiere? Probably not now. But if I were buying a new Tivo right now, I would not even consider a TivoHD at half the price.

Would you consider a Tivo HD at one-third the price? They have been clearanced at some Blockbuster stores for $99.99 for months now.

IMO the only benefits to having a Premiere vs. an S3/HD right now are the faster MRV/TTG speeds and the *potential* for Tivo to release something cool for them. But right now it's still a bugfest and Tivo lately has been doing very poorly with finishing the job. The online Season Pass Manager is the latest example of a good idea with a half-baked implementation (just like the Premiere).
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post #724 of 3371 Old 10-28-2010, 09:25 AM
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The thing about dual cores is that it might be faster if one core took care of the recording and displaying shows and the other took care of other stuff. In theory this would make transfers even faster. In theory it would also make the HD menus respond faster.

The problems with turning an old, single thread program into a mutli-thread program are monumental. Basically, you need to use a new compiler, rethink everything, and almost end up rewriting the whole application. You've no idea how hard it can be unless you've taken a major application that has been around for over a decade and tried this. I'm not trying to make excuses for Tivo not using both cores, it is just that there are other things that seem more important (to me).
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post #725 of 3371 Old 10-28-2010, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyrax View Post

The thing about dual cores is that it might be faster if one core took care of the recording and displaying shows and the other took care of other stuff. In theory this would make transfers even faster. In theory it would also make the HD menus respond faster.

The problems with turning an old, single thread program into a mutli-thread program are monumental. Basically, you need to use a new compiler, rethink everything, and almost end up rewriting the whole application. You've no idea how hard it can be unless you've taken a major application that has been around for over a decade and tried this. I'm not trying to make excuses for Tivo not using both cores, it is just that there are other things that seem more important (to me).

Transfers are already limited by the slow 100BT connection. I already get 85Mb/s to 95Mb/s transfer rates between Premieres and 60Mb/s to 70Mb/s to/from my TiVo Desktop PC.

Without a gigabit connection, transfer speeds between Premieres are already at their maximum.

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post #726 of 3371 Old 10-28-2010, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

But you can easily solve that problem with a hard drive upgrade on the Tivo HD, at a cost of $60 or less for a 1TB drive. 2TB upgrades are also possible for around $100.

When I bought the TivoHD, they did not offer lifetime subscriptions and the best I could get was a 3-year subscription, which just ran out. So I needed weigh the benefits of spending $400 for a lifetime subscription plus $100 for a new hard drive, vs getting a Premiere. I thought of upgrading my TivoHD, but it seemed like a bad idea putting that sort of money into a 3 year old box. Yeah, it cost me $200 more to get the Premiere, but that seems like a smarter move to me. If I'd had a lifetime subscription on the TivoHD, I'm not sure I'd have upgraded.

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Would you consider a Tivo HD at one-third the price? They have been clearanced at some Blockbuster stores for $99.99 for months now.

And I've seen deals on the Premiere for $209. So, I'd consider the TivoHD, if it came free with a Happy Meal or with a full tank of gas. The real expense of the Tivo is the subscription, so the cost difference between a TivoHD and a Premiere with lifetime subscription is $499 vs $609.

The TivoHD is great at what it does (so be happy with the one you've got), but if you're buying a new one, why would you want stick yourself with a clearance product just to save a few bucks?

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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

IMO the only benefits to having a Premiere vs. an HD right now are the faster MRV/TTG speeds and the *potential* for Tivo to release something cool for them. But right now it's still a bugfest and Tivo lately has been doing very poorly with finishing the job. The online Season Pass Manager is the latest example of a good idea with a half-baked implementation, just like the Premiere.

I agree up until you describe the Premiere as a bugfest. Mine appears problem free. The reason I'd not buy a TivoHD now is that it has next to no potential for anything new, and its TTG is as slow as molasses.
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post #727 of 3371 Old 10-28-2010, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

Transfers are already limited by the slow 100BT connection. I already get 85Mb/s to 95Mb/s transfer rates between Premieres and 60Mb/s to 70Mb/s to/from my TiVo Desktop PC.

Without a gigabit connection, transfer speeds between Premieres are already at their maximum.

true, but you can't watch shows faster than you can transfer at 95mB/s. So really it doesn't matter. Even with fast forwarding, you can't catch up.
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post #728 of 3371 Old 10-28-2010, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

... I already get 85Mb/s to 95Mb/s transfer rates between Premieres and 60Mb/s to 70Mb/s to/from my TiVo Desktop PC.

aaron-
I'd love to know how you are getting twice the transfer speeds I'm getting. I've my Tivo on a wired network that supports gigabit speeds. My PC to PC copy speeds are similar to yours, but my Tivo to PC speeds are between 30 and 40 Mbps (and usually closer to 30).
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post #729 of 3371 Old 10-28-2010, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

Transfers are already limited by the slow 100BT connection. I already get 85Mb/s to 95Mb/s transfer rates between Premieres and 60Mb/s to 70Mb/s to/from my TiVo Desktop PC.

Without a gigabit connection, transfer speeds between Premieres are already at their maximum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyrax View Post

aaron-
I'd love to know how you are getting twice the transfer speeds I'm getting. I've my Tivo on a wired network that supports gigabit speeds. My PC to PC copy speeds are similar to yours, but my Tivo to PC speeds are between 30 and 40 Mbps (and usually closer to 30).

I've seen similar numbers between Premieres : somewhere between 90-95Mbps during MRV operations. There's really no magic there. I just had 'em connected to the same switch, and it just worked.

TiVo -> PC operations over my WirelessN network are usually somewhere in the 40-45Mbps throughput range.
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post #730 of 3371 Old 10-28-2010, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by b_scott View Post

true, but you can't watch shows faster than you can transfer at 95mB/s. So really it doesn't matter. Even with fast forwarding, you can't catch up.

No, but you start accruing buffered space immediately. The benefit of this is that you can fast forward through commercials from the get-go, without having to wait for more content to be buffered (as would happen if you were transferring at a 1:1 rate).
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post #731 of 3371 Old 10-28-2010, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul_S View Post

No, but you start accruing buffered space immediately. The benefit of this is that you can fast forward through commercials from the get-go, without having to wait for more content to be buffered (as would happen if you were transferring at a 1:1 rate).

true if it were 1:1. but like i said, it buffers about a 6:1 rate for me.
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post #732 of 3371 Old 10-28-2010, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

As I have continued to monitor this thread, I have to agree with lsarver. I don't see a compelling reason to upgrade from a perfectly operating and stable HD to a Premier, as it sits today.

Me, neither - especially now that we've got the internet radio streaming.
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post #733 of 3371 Old 10-28-2010, 11:35 AM
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I have the RCN branded Tivo Premiere and I love it...it's the exact same as the retail Premiere's with the added benefit of VOD...RCN has still not enabled the HDUI because of stability issues but is planning on rolling it out before the end of the year...I also bought the WD DVR Expander last week and how have over 190+ hours of HD storage capacity...beautiful!
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post #734 of 3371 Old 10-28-2010, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Hyrax View Post

Would I replace a perfectly working TivoHD XL with a Premiere? Probably not now. But if I were buying a new Tivo right now, I would not even consider a TivoHD at half the price.

I would, as I only use it OTA, and there's the difference with the tuners. I need all the sensitivity I can get here.
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post #735 of 3371 Old 10-28-2010, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

Would you consider a Tivo HD at one-third the price? They have been clearanced at some Blockbuster stores for $99.99 for months now.

My BIL mentioned to me a few months back that there were some actually going for only $49.99 at the store here.

I told him that was hard to believe, but he swore he checked it out thoroughly.
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post #736 of 3371 Old 10-28-2010, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyrax View Post

I do have to disagree with you about the speed increase: I am very excited by it! I get sustained speeds of about 30 MBps even when my Tivo is recording shows and this makes a huge difference to me. I use kmttg to download shows for time-shifting to my PC and streambaby to pull them to my Tivo when I want to watch them. With my Premiere I can browse recorded shows on my PC, pull a show to my Tivo, and watch it in real time.

I can easily see where that would be a big plus for your situation. In my case I queue up a bunch of shows to transfer with kmttg just before bed and let it run all night and day while I'm at work if I have to. I transfer them to my NAS for playback on my media player so I don't worry about how fast they can transfer back to the TiVo. Now, if the Premier had the ability to navigate SMB shares on a NAS and transfer content back from the NAS (while playing in real time) without the intermediacy of a PC running StreamBaby or TiVo Desktop, I would suddenly be very interested in upgrading to a Premier and it's faster transfer rates.
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But if I were buying a new Tivo right now, I would not even consider a TivoHD at half the price.

Agreed. When I am ready to buy a second TiVo I will get whatever the current model is at the time. Although, like Rammitinski, I am OTA-only and would want to make sure the Premier's tuner was up to snuff for my location.

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post #737 of 3371 Old 10-28-2010, 04:05 PM
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I didn't realize that the tuners were different. I'm OTA also, live 30-40 miles from the towers, and pick up the same stations that my TivoHD did (and the same stations my LG LST-3410A did). I usually get the worse reception from one station in the middle of winter, so it will be interesting to see what happens this year.
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post #738 of 3371 Old 10-28-2010, 10:28 PM
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I don't really know for sure, either, but that's what many were saying when it first came out.
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post #739 of 3371 Old 10-29-2010, 08:14 AM
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That is certainly not the only reason, just the one I singled out to illustrate the generally unfinished nature of the product (7 months after release!). Perhaps instead I should have mentioned the missing second core or the difficulty of using the grid in SD. . . . ?

The fact of the matter is that I cannot see that the Premiere has any major advantages--other than faster downloads to a PC--over my S3. Still waiting. Yawn.

I could see it not being worth trading in a working S3 for the Premiere. But moving from a dying S2 was definitely worth it, the dual tuners and space alone was worth it. And losing the need for a cable box is great (that's what went flaky on me, the S2 started to ahve problems switching the box through both serial port and IR). Also like the built-in Ethernet, the adapter seemed flaky at times.

Question about the tuners, seems like the Premiere can only record one HD show at a time, I will set to record to the HD station, but sometimes it instead switches to the SD version. Limitiation on the tuner? Also, didn't the S3 have one digital and one analog tuner? Or am I thinking incorrectly?
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post #740 of 3371 Old 10-29-2010, 08:26 AM
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It will record two HD shows just fine. I don't know why (or how) they choose a SD station over a HD station, but I got around the problem you describe by removing all the duplicate SD stations from my channel lineup - if I have a HD version of a station I don't also include the SD station. I had to do the same thing on my TivoHD, so this isn't unique to the Premiere.
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post #741 of 3371 Old 10-29-2010, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Hyrax View Post

It will record two HD shows just fine. I don't know why (or how) they choose a SD station over a HD station, but I got around the problem you describe by removing all the duplicate SD stations from my channel lineup - if I have a HD version of a station I don't also include the SD station.

agreed. I have about 10 SD stations left.
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post #742 of 3371 Old 10-29-2010, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Brazis View Post

Question about the tuners, seems like the Premiere can only record one HD show at a time, I will set to record to the HD station, but sometimes it instead switches to the SD version. Limitiation on the tuner? Also, didn't the S3 have one digital and one analog tuner? Or am I thinking incorrectly?

It can record HD on both tuners simultaneously. S3 also has two HD tuners, and can also record to both simultaneously. I think you're thinking of the S2 DT, which had a analog tuner (or two?), and a single SD digital tuner.

Season Passes will record which ever channel is associated with it, analog or digital. Manual recordings will record which ever channel it's told to.

Wishlists can record either analog or digital, depending upon how it's set up. If a WishList identifies a program which can be recording on either, it will choose the one with the lower channel number (usually analog). To assign the WishList to record HD only, specify the type "HD" in the WishList set up screens.
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post #743 of 3371 Old 10-30-2010, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyrax View Post

It will record two HD shows just fine. I don't know why (or how) they choose a SD station over a HD station, but I got around the problem you describe by removing all the duplicate SD stations from my channel lineup - if I have a HD version of a station I don't also include the SD station. I had to do the same thing on my TivoHD, so this isn't unique to the Premiere.

Here most of the sub-channel SD stations carry different programs from the HD channel. What does this thing do then?

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post #744 of 3371 Old 10-30-2010, 10:36 AM
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Here most of the sub-channel SD stations carry different programs from the HD channel. What does this thing do then?

Many cable systems will include all their channels in the lower numbers area (often analog) as SD for customers without an HDTV. For those with HDTVs (or DRVs like TiVo), the HD version of the same channels are in a higher number area. These are the same channels as the SD lower number ones, just one is SD for people with older TVs and the higher number for people with HD TVs.

On the TiVo, when a program/season pass is requested, it asks what channel you want to record it from and lists the channels in order, the default being the lowest channel number. That's why some people are getting the SD version of shows when that have an HD option. Often people don't think to switch the channel they are recording from and leave it on the default, which is the SD channel.

The solution is to remove the identical, lower number SD channel lineup on the TiVo for every channel they have a duplicate in HD. That way the TiVo will never suggest recording from the SD channel, and will never record suggestions in SD if that option is turned on.
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post #745 of 3371 Old 10-30-2010, 10:43 AM
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Huh? How does what I said make a Tivo less desirable (the advice I gave applies to the Series 3 & Series 4 Tivos)?

I said don't include duplicate stations. If sub-channels carry different programming they are not duplicate stations and you can include them if you wish.

Each sub channel is a separate channel, and can be included or exclude separately. Also, Paul_S pointed out how you can keep duplicate stations and still only record the HD version. I just don't see the point in having SD and HD stations that are showing the exact same thing cluttering up my program guide.
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post #746 of 3371 Old 11-01-2010, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul_S View Post

It can record HD on both tuners simultaneously. S3 also has two HD tuners, and can also record to both simultaneously. I think you're thinking of the S2 DT, which had a analog tuner (or two?), and a single SD digital tuner.

Season Passes will record which ever channel is associated with it, analog or digital. Manual recordings will record which ever channel it's told to.

Wishlists can record either analog or digital, depending upon how it's set up. If a WishList identifies a program which can be recording on either, it will choose the one with the lower channel number (usually analog). To assign the WishList to record HD only, specify the type "HD" in the WishList set up screens.

Thank you all for the responses. Might be a good idea to wipe out the SD stations as a couple of you have suggested. It hasn't been such a big deal since the screen is only 37", but I do prefer the HD.
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post #747 of 3371 Old 11-01-2010, 06:29 AM
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Sorry if this is off topic, I didn't see a S2 thread. I have a Premiere and just hooked up a S2 for a friend's son. I did the setup with a splitter as shown in the guide. one end of the splitter goes into the DTA and the video out of the DTA goes in to the Tivo vidoe in; the other output of the splitter goes into the RF in. It said that in order to use 2 tuners it had to be setup this way. I assume one tuner can only use theSTA and the other tuner can only get local unsencrypted channels from Comcast, correct? So if one wants to watch an encrypted cable chan (with Comcastm that's now anythng not a local station) then you have to try it on both tuners to see if you are watching the one using the DTA, is that correct? He was trying to get Nick, and sometimes it worked and other times it didn't. I told him to hit live tv if it didn't worj and then try again. But he said it seems to be hit or miss either way (so maybe also a lose cable or bad splitter?)

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post #748 of 3371 Old 11-04-2010, 08:07 AM
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A search of this thread came up empty for this topic "Video outputs do not stick" although there is a thread on Tivocommunity for this issue with many posters reporting this.

This is a real nuisance since I use a DVDO iScan Duo VP which needs the native format to do it's thing.
Cable channel formats run from 480i to 1080i, most Encore channels for example use 480i and must be sent to the Duo as is without any conversion by the Premiere.

As it stands now I constantly have to access the video setting to re-enable all formats.
Hope it gets fixed soon.

PS. Am currently watching Superman on Encore Action transmitted in 480i and while obviously not HD the result from the Duo processing is very good, at least SD DVD quality after the Duo processes to 1080/p60 to the LG 55LH90 TV.

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post #749 of 3371 Old 11-10-2010, 12:04 PM
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I currently have a TiVo HD DVR with an M-Card from Comcast. I have no complaints with the unit and I like the interface of the TiVo a lot better than my parents ATT U-Verse DVR.

Recently, I acquired a Tivo Premiere with a purchase of a new TV and I haven't opened the box yet because I'm thinking of just selling the thing (Get some $ back on purchase of the TV hehe). We are moving soon to a 2 bedroom and would have 1 TV in the living room and the other TV in the 2nd bedroom.

Originally, I was planning on having the TiVo premiere out in the living room while having the TiVo HD in the bedroom, but I soon learned about TiVo's inability to stream shows from 1 TiVo to another and thus started searching for a better multiroom solution.

I saw ads for Comcast's AnyRoom DVR (Go Shaq!) where you can stop/pause any show in 1 room and pick it up where you left off in another room, perfect! The price of this solution seems cheaper too, I'm not sure on the prices, but I bet monthly it would be about 15-20 bucks (for 2 rooms) compared to $12.95*2 = $25 minus some multi-tivo discount? So, at best it would be the same price, probably a little more, and no equipment cost up front.

I really like my TiVo and have been a fan since my stepdad bought a Series 2 TiVo back in the day but it seems like it's additional features such as Netflix, Pandora, Amazon etc don't matter anymore like they did 2 years ago. For instance, my TV & Bluray all stream Netflix, Pandora, Amazon and more. Even my Wii can stream Netflix, while my TiVo HD has to download the movie from Amazon before viewing. We rent from Amazon sometimes and we just use our Panasonic Bluray over Tivo HD for this reason.

With that, it seems the only advantage of having a TiVo is the nice user friendly interface and familiarity since I have had one for several years now. I have no experience with the Comcast solution, but I doubt it's total garbage and I bet it's pretty easy to use as well, therefore eliminating the benefits of the TiVo even more.

Sorry if this feels like I'm bashing TiVo but I'm just working out the Pro's and Con's of the 2 options

A few questions I have about TiVo's multiroom view "solution" -

1) You can only transfer non-protected content from 1 TiVo to another correct? If I have Comcast how many of the channels are protected? All of the cable channels or just premium (which I don't have) or can I really only move major network shows (nbc, abc etc)? I have heard it depends on the provider but I'm hoping Comcast the content isnt protected minus HBO, Showtime etc..

2) Relating to question 1, do I have to wait for the transfer to finish or can I start viewing the show once there is enough of it downloaded? Assuming wired or wireless N how long does this take approximately for a 30 or 60 min HD show since this is what we would be transferring mostly. I hope the answer to this question is "Yes you can watch while it transfers and it takes 10 minutes"

I guess if my answers to my questions above are positive ones I would be more inclined to keep the TiVo, otherwise anyone want to buy a used TiVo HD and a brand new TiVo Premiere with wireless N adapter?
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post #750 of 3371 Old 11-10-2010, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iRoNeTiK View Post

2) Relating to question 1, do I have to wait for the transfer to finish or can I start viewing the show once there is enough of it downloaded? Assuming wired or wireless N how long does this take approximately for a 30 or 60 min HD show since this is what we would be transferring mostly. I hope the answer to this question is "Yes you can watch while it transfers and it takes 10 minutes"

Yes you can watch while you transfer. Although the Premier has a faster transfer rate, you may be bottle-necked by the TiVo HD. I don't believe you can transfer HD content fast enough with the HD to watch real-time, especially if you are going to skip commercials. You will have to start the transfer and let it buffer for a while so you don't get paused in the middle with a message that it needs to transfer more so come back later.

If anything, sell the HD and buy another Premier.

- kelson h

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