The Official AVS TiVo "Series4" Premiere topic - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 3371 Old 03-09-2010, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

They shouldn't be doing that unless they have true streaming capability. If all my TiVos look like one tiVo, then I will expect to be able to stream a title and instantly go to any point in the recording. With the current S3 units they easily transfer HD in much faster than realtime, but you can't skip to a point later in the program until the entire show has been transferred.

no, i want scheduling across all. i don't care about instant streaming as much, since I can transfer faster than real time anyway.
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post #62 of 3371 Old 03-09-2010, 09:14 AM
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Thanks, problem is I can afford the box by itself in one payment I was thinking more along the lines of with the lifetime subscription making it a major purchase (at least for myself)...

I asked Moxi the same thing and they don't offer any type of extended billing options. I know it's off topic but that new 3 tuner Moxi sure does look sweet.
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post #63 of 3371 Old 03-09-2010, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by DrOct View Post

But that's not why he was saying it. He was talking about whether the S3 hardware would be CAPABLE of streaming.

But the HD can't at higher bitrates (apparently), so they can't use streaming. And so it doesn't matter for the S3 series as a whole -we are stuck with transfers. They're not going to do something special for the S3. For the Premieres, hopefully it will be a different story.
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post #64 of 3371 Old 03-09-2010, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by b_scott View Post

no, i want scheduling across all. i don't care about instant streaming as much, since I can transfer faster than real time anyway.

You would care if you were on a CCI'd system like Time Warner, which is the point of streaming instead. But I agree that coop scheduling is a must-do for Tivo at some point, after they tackle streaming. HD streaming IS a big selling point for Moxi vs. Tivo.
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post #65 of 3371 Old 03-09-2010, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

You would care if you were on a CCI'd system like Time Warner, which is the point of streaming instead. But I agree that coop scheduling is a must-do for Tivo at some point, after they tackle streaming. HD streaming IS a big selling point for Moxi vs. Tivo.

I have CCI stuff on Comcast, but only the premium channels. That sucks for you.
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post #66 of 3371 Old 03-09-2010, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott View Post

no, i want scheduling across all. i don't care about instant streaming as much, since I can transfer faster than real time anyway.


I understand, but if it's going to be scheduled as though it's one unit, I expect things to be viewable as if one unit. currently I know what will be recorded on each box. With your way, I will have no idea which box the recordings are on and will have to look.

That's why if collaborative scheduling were implemented, I would want streaming implemented as well.

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post #67 of 3371 Old 03-09-2010, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

But the HD can't at higher bitrates (apparently), so they can't use streaming. And so it doesn't matter for the S3 series as a whole -we are stuck with transfers. They're not going to do something special for the S3. For the Premieres, hopefully it will be a different story.

The current S3 models have no problem transferring HD between each other at much faster than realtime. Streaming should be no issue with the current models as far as transfer rates are concerned.

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post #68 of 3371 Old 03-09-2010, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

I understand, but if it's going to be scheduled as though it's one unit, I expect things to be viewable as if one unit. currently I know what will be recorded on each box. With your way, I will have no idea which box the recordings are on and will have to look.

That's why if collaborative scheduling were implemented, I would want streaming implemented as well.

not true, it could just have a mark by the recording stating which box it's on. I don't even really mean have them all in one list, only make it so if there is a conflict it offloads to the other for recording.
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post #69 of 3371 Old 03-09-2010, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by b_scott View Post

not true, it could just have a mark by the recording stating which box it's on. I don't even really mean have them all in one list, only make it so if there is a conflict it offloads to the other for recording.

But even doing something like thise will cause other issues. Say you have a family with several TiVos and TVs. So it decides to record something on another box, and let's say something else is scheduled. It might be in a family members room and they were planning on watching something live since they know their box will only be recording one thing. but now it's recording two things and there isn't a tuner free.

It just seems like it has the potential to cause problems depending on how many people will be using the TiVos at the home.

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post #70 of 3371 Old 03-09-2010, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

But even doing something like thise will cause other issues. Say you have a family with several TiVos and TVs. So it decides to record something on another box, and let's say something else is scheduled. It might be in a family members room and they were planning on watching something live since they know their box will only be recording one thing. but now it's recording two things and there isn't a tuner free.

It just seems like it has the potential to cause problems depending on how many people will be using the TiVos at the home.

but you could also be able to direct which box things record on, just from one box.

I don't know that I want it to be thinking on its own, I just want it to suggest "well, there's a conflict here, 3 things are trying to record and one can't - would you like to offload to the Bedroom box? YES/NO"
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post #71 of 3371 Old 03-10-2010, 07:09 AM
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That's pretty much what the Replays have done for years - allow you to offload to a networked unit if the local one has a conflict. But they never implemented a single view of all recordings or a way to manage recordings of all units from one.

A global Tivo ToDo List would be nice, as would a global SP view.
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post #72 of 3371 Old 03-10-2010, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

They shouldn't be doing that unless they have true streaming capability. If all my TiVos look like one tiVo, then I will expect to be able to stream a title and instantly go to any point in the recording. With the current S3 units they easily transfer HD in much faster than realtime, but you can't skip to a point later in the program until the entire show has been transferred.

Yes certainly.


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Originally Posted by b_scott View Post

no, i want scheduling across all. i don't care about instant streaming as much, since I can transfer faster than real time anyway.

Many people can't transfer due to copy protection. With that in mind, they can't make scheduling across all a default behavior until streaming is available.
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post #73 of 3371 Old 03-10-2010, 01:02 PM
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For anyone with an HP MediaSmart server, you'll probably find this interesting.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/10/h...les-video-tran

It's an app for super easy transfers between your TiVos and server.
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post #74 of 3371 Old 03-10-2010, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Raistlin_HT View Post

Many people can't transfer due to copy protection. With that in mind, they can't make scheduling across all a default behavior until streaming is available.

why not? If I didn't care about streaming, like I said, it would still make it so you could handle all your boxes from one screen, which is what I want.
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post #75 of 3371 Old 03-10-2010, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Raistlin_HT View Post

For anyone with an HP MediaSmart server, you'll probably find this interesting.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/10/h...les-video-tran

It's an app for super easy transfers between your TiVos and server.



I need to try this out.

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post #76 of 3371 Old 03-10-2010, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin_HT View Post

For anyone with an HP MediaSmart server, you'll probably find this interesting.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/10/h...les-video-tran

It's an app for super easy transfers between your TiVos and server.

see more - http://www.wegotserved.com/2010/03/1...tivo-revealed/

http://www.mediasmartserver.net/2010...asmart-server/

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post #77 of 3371 Old 03-11-2010, 06:42 AM
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At $900 turnkey how does it compare to the Sony DHG-HDD for just OTA use?

The obvious is clear; 2 tuners instead of 1, double the storage space. Requires an Internet Hook Up which is very problematic here (construction-ugh), but it could be done at a cost of $70 per month for service– but still unreliable and high cost.

But my real questions center on the DVR itself:

1. Can it commercial skip like the Sony, instantly (a few short seconds), and start on the right place (or within a couple of seconds), or must you use those cumbersome 30 second jumps, or the other methods that all the other DVR’s use? I have used the TWC and Comcast Moto boxes(their latest), older TiVos, the latest AT&T U-Verse and I consider them all horrible.

2. Are “your” keyword search lists “stored”, so all “your” shows are located instantly? In reading the material it appears to be something they may be working on?

3. I am confused by the term used on the TiVo schedule your recordings – like it is something you have to do “well” ahead of time? (which you can do on the Sony of course); but does that mean you can also place “red dots” wherever your want to mark shows “instantly” right “now”, even if it is one you are currently watching (along with all your other red dots)?

4. When you schedule your recordings, I assume it does “instant” and “full” conflict resolution and “tells you” which shows are in conflict to allow “you” can make the adjustments “now” or “later” down to the “minute” level?


After reading and trying to understand the TiVo material I get the impression the “scheduling” of the recordings is something that is done over the internet and not done right “now” inside the box. So I honestly do not understand how that is to work?
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post #78 of 3371 Old 03-11-2010, 11:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

1. Can it commercial skip

No DVR currently in production for sale in the United States supports commercial skip.

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Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

2. Are your keyword search lists stored, so all your shows are located instantly?

If I understand you question, the answer is 'yes'.

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Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

3. I am confused by the term used on the TiVo schedule your recordings - like it is something you have to do well ahead of time? (which you can do on the Sony of course); but does that mean you can also place red dots wherever your want to mark shows instantly right now, even if it is one you are currently watching (along with all your other red dots)?

It doesn't use a red dot, of course, but the principle is the same. If there is an issue, it is a rather minor tuner switch and then tuner switch back.

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4. When you schedule your recordings, I assume it does instant and full conflict resolution and tells you which shows are in conflict to allow you can make the adjustments now or later down to the minute level?

You're using too many loaded words. Ask your questions more discretely for better answers.

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After reading and trying to understand the TiVo material I get the impression the scheduling of the recordings is something that is done over the internet and not done right now inside the box. So I honestly do not understand how that is to work?

Scheduling via the Internet is actually relatively new. The basic way of setting up recordings is within the device.
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post #79 of 3371 Old 03-11-2010, 12:19 PM
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Scheduling via the Internet is actually relatively new. The basic way of setting up recordings is within the device.

personally I like using the site to schedule way more than the interface. Keyboard FTW and works just as well if not better.
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post #80 of 3371 Old 03-11-2010, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by bicker1 View Post

No DVR currently in production for sale in the United States supports commercial skip.

If I understand you question, the answer is 'yes'.

It doesn't use a red dot, of course, but the principle is the same. If there is an issue, it is a rather minor tuner switch and then tuner switch back.

You're using too many loaded words. Ask your questions more discretely for better answers.

Scheduling via the Internet is actually relatively new. The basic way of setting up recordings is within the device.

Thanks for the fast reply. It does not sound encouraging. Out of 4 items I am looking for; one is maybe and the other three are no.

Trying to clarify the one question what will it do and what options do you have for handling recording conflicts: Let’s set you already have NBC set up for 7PM to 10PM on one tuner (no conflicts). But on the other tuner you also have “24” set up on Fox and it is automatically set up to recorded from 8PM to 9:01PM, and then “CSI” comes on from 9PM to 10PM. What happens to that one minute conflict? When are you "notified" of that conflict? How is that handled? What controls do “you” have to instantly change as you see fit? Most of the DVR's I have seen so far are at best very cumbersome for this.
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CSI just starts 1 minute late, and it shows as such.
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post #82 of 3371 Old 03-11-2010, 12:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

Thanks for the fast reply. It does not sound encouraging. Out of 4 items I am looking for; one is maybe and the other three are no.

Is that the way you read it? My answers were substantially positive -- two yes, one maybe, and one no -- and indeed the answer to your questions for TiVo are more positive than they would be with regard to most any other alternative.

Either that or perhaps I don't understand the context of your inquiries... Are you perhaps just looking for a reason to eliminate the TiVo from consideration, rather than looking for a reason to consider the TiVo? Or perhaps you're simply looking for something that just doesn't exist.

Quote:
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Trying to clarify the one question what will it do and what options do you have for handling recording conflicts: Let’s set you already have NBC set up for 7PM to 10PM on one tuner (no conflicts). But on the other tuner you also have “24” set up on Fox and it is automatically set up to recorded from 8PM to 9:01PM, and then “CSI” comes on from 9PM to 10PM. What happens to that one minute conflict?

The lower priority recording gets clipped.

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When are you "notified" of that conflict?

It is handled for you based on your earlier indications of relative priority.

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Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

What controls do “you” have to instantly change as you see fit?

You can go into the lower priority recording and eliminate the clipping. That will convert the recording to a manual scheduled recording, implicitly giving it higher priority, so the now-newly-lower priority recording will be clipped.
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post #83 of 3371 Old 03-11-2010, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

Trying to clarify the one question what will it do and what options do you have for handling recording conflicts: Let’s set you already have NBC set up for 7PM to 10PM on one tuner (no conflicts). But on the other tuner you also have “24” set up on Fox and it is automatically set up to recorded from 8PM to 9:01PM, and then “CSI” comes on from 9PM to 10PM. What happens to that one minute conflict? When are you "notified" of that conflict? How is that handled?

You don't have to worry about 1-5 minute conflicts causing missed recordings with TiVo. From the AVS FAQ:

Quote:


How does the TiVo handle situations where multiple programs conflict by just a few minutes?

The TiVo has a feature called "overlap protection" to address situations where three or more programs overlap by five minutes or less. When enabled (the default), this feature will automatically cut up to five minutes from the lowest priority recording if doing so will allow another scheduled series to record.

For example, suppose you had series recordings prioritized as follows in Season Pass Manager:

  1. 24 (normally Monday @ 9-10pm on FOX)
  2. Heroes (normally Monday @ 9-10pm on NBC)
  3. CSI Miami (normally Monday @ 10-11pm on CBS)
  4. True Beauty (normally Monday @ 10-11pm on ABC)

If an episode of Heroes runs from 9:00 to 10:02, then True Beauty is clipped by two minutes because it is the lowest priority series.

Programs that will be clipped have their time flagged with a * on the To Do List (record schedule).


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post #84 of 3371 Old 03-11-2010, 02:59 PM
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Either that or perhaps I don't understand the context of your inquiries... Are you perhaps just looking for a reason to eliminate the TiVo from consideration, rather than looking for a reason to consider the TiVo? Or perhaps you're simply looking for something that just doesn't exist.


Those 4 items I listed are just really important to me, and really hate to give them up - so spoiled I guess. To me, those items are some of the major reasons to even have a DVR.

Of course the current system I am using is TVGOS both good and bad. The TiVo would use the high cost internet both good and bad. There are always trade offs.


bfdtv, have you had experience using the Sony DVR? If so, how does it compare from an operational standpoint?
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Those 4 items I listed are just really important to me, and really hate to give them up - so spoiled I guess.

Why would you even consider a new DVR, if your current DVR is so much better?
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post #86 of 3371 Old 03-11-2010, 04:44 PM
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Does this support archiving content on blu-ray via a firewire or other conection?
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post #87 of 3371 Old 03-11-2010, 06:23 PM
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Does this support archiving content on blu-ray via a firewire or other conection?

You can use several software applications including TiVo Desktop to effect bidirectional transfers of TiVo recorded content to or from your PC. Then with an editing/authoring package like Video ReDo you can burn the HD content to BD or to DVD as AVCHD.

This of course works as long as your cable provider does not set the copy once flag on the programs of interest. It works for all programs recorded OTA.

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post #88 of 3371 Old 03-11-2010, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

Those 4 items I listed are just really important to me, and really hate to give them up - so spoiled I guess. To me, those items are some of the major reasons to even have a DVR.

I think you misinterpreted bicker's responses. TiVo offers three of those four features, although the implementation may differ somewhat from you are accustomed with the Sony DHD. With TiVo, you can save searches. You can click record on a live program to save the buffered portion together with the remainder. You can record immediately upcoming programs by selecting them in the EPG.

TiVo does not offer offer automatic commercial skip, but neither does the Sony or any other non-ReplayTV DVR. As far as I know, the only advantage Sony offers with regard to skipping commercials is the ability to customize the behavior of the ADVANCE button to jump multiple intervals of 30 seconds. TiVo's ADVANCE button is locked to 30 seconds, but you can can use macros on a universal remote to send multiple commands in sequence. On TiVo, this function doesn't lag as it does on most cable and satellite DVRs; you press ADVANCE four times without pause or delay and you've jumped two minutes within 0.3s.

The TiVo Premiere adjusts the default behavior of the ADVANCE button somewhat. Every time you press the ADVANCE button, the TiVo fast forwards through a 30 second interval at high speed. Pressing the ADVANCE multiple times in a row queues added time. Press the button six times by hand (or macro) and the DVR fast forwards through 180 seconds at high speed. You can interrupt this at any time by pressing PLAY. The traditional 30 second "instant" skip is still available for those that want it.

More on the behavior of the Premiere's ADVANCE button:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post


Pressing and holding the ADVANCE button jumps to the end of the recording. If watching live TV on a delay, it jumps to the end of the live buffer (i.e. real-time).

Pressing and holding the REPLAY button jumps to the beginning of the recording. If watching live TV, it jumps to the beginning of the live buffer.

The TiVo places "tick" or chapter marks on the time bar at equal intervals. These tick marks are spaced every 15 minutes on live TV and recordings up to 3.0 hours, every 30 minutes on recordings 3.5 to 6.0 hours, and every hour on recordings 6.5 hours and longer. Each press of the ADVANCE button while fast forwarding will skip to the next "tick" on the time bar. Each press of the ADVANCE button while rewinding will skip to the previous "tick" on the time bar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

Of course the current system I am using is TVGOS both good and bad. The TiVo would use the high cost internet both good and bad. There are always trade offs.

TiVo will offer a USB phone line adapter for those without broadband. However, the new HD UI may require broadband. Phone line users may be forced to use the older SD "Classic" UI. That is not yet clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

bfdtv, have you had experience using the Sony DVR? If so, how does it compare from an operational standpoint?

Record and search are superior on the TiVo.

The primary advantage of the Sony is ClearQAM mapping. In addition to the the customizable ADVANCE duration, another Sony advantage is the ability to bookmark multiple spots in a recording; the TiVo remembers your last position, but you can't bookmark multiple spots. Compared to the classic TiVo UI, some also prefer the way Sony displays information directly for each program on the recorded list, without having to click SELECT on the program; the new HD UI on the TiVo Premiere incorporates that "feature."

Rammitinski found that SD upconversion was better on the Sony DHD than the TivoHD. The new chip in the Premiere claims improved video deinterlace, scaling capability, and font rendering, but until the product is released and compared, we won't know what effect that has on picture quality.

Since you mentioned search, I'll address that specifically. On the Premiere, there are two forms of search. The standard function searches every word in every program title and actor name, with results for actors, movies, and shows displayed in order by popularity. As an example, enter "G" and the first results listed are Grey's Anatomy, Glee, Gossip Girl, The Good Wife, and Ghost Whisperer. Enter "M" and the first results listed are Mad Men, Mythbusters, Masterpiece Classic, The Mentalist, Medium, and Mercy. The TiVo does not save these searches.

The second form of search on a TiVo is a wishlist. This is a saved search. From the TivoHD FAQ:

Quote:


A Wishlist is a saved search that combines one or more keywords, title keywords, actors, and/or directors with a category (such as sports event) of your choice. Each word or phrase you enter as a keyword or title keyword requires an exact match unless a wildcard is used. Creating a wishlist with separate keywords will require both matches by default. If you want to make a title keyword, keyword, actor, or director optional or excluded, you can do that with boolean operators. Highlight the entry, select it by pressing OK, and then use the "Thumbs up" button to toggle between required (AND), optional (OR), and excluded (NOT), as shown in this screenshot.

You can choose to display the results of this search, or you can set the TiVo to automatically record all future matches on the channels you receive, regardless of the date, time, and channel. If autorecord is set, the wishlist continuously searches the guide data for matches to record in the background, without any intervention from the user. Programs recorded by each wishlist are organized into a single folder with a customizable name. As with any other season pass, you prioritize autorecord wishlists in Season Pass Manager so they do not interfere with your favorite programs. You can choose whether to record new (first-run) programs only, or new and repeat episodes; you can also set the number of programs to keep and whether to keep until space is needed or until you manually delete.

With the option to auto-record, these saved searches allow you create custom season passes to record specific events (or groups of events) whenever and wherever they are broadcast. It allows you to define the record parameters, rather than letting the guide do it for you based only on program title. This eliminates the need to keep up with TV schedules for pro and college sports teams; it also eliminates the need to keep up with the TV schedules for award shows, golf tournaments, tennis tournaments, racing events, etc.

You can find a number of wishlist examples with screenshots for existing TiVos here. TiVo has not said (or shown) what changes the Premiere will make to this functionality.

HDTV Recorder Comparison Chart | DTVPal DVR FAQ | New! TiVo Premiere (Series4) FAQ |
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post #89 of 3371 Old 03-12-2010, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

I don't think the SoC in the TiVo Premiere has DTS audio support. It should play 1080p MKVs with other audio formats at some point, although probably not at release.

Even if it supported DLNA/UPnP playback with a set list of supported codecs, that would be a massive win for me.. As long as the codecs were known, they could be plugged into, say, ps3mediaserver as a configuration plugin and have my i7 server do all the transcoding (via mplayer/tsmuxer)..

btw, is it confirmed that the traditional 30sec skip is supported on the Premiere with the traditional key sequence? Because the one thing Tivo could do that would have me ditch them immediately would be to irreparably f--k with 30s skip.
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post #90 of 3371 Old 03-12-2010, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Otis Widlflower View Post

Even if it supported DLNA/UPnP playback with a set list of supported codecs, that would be a massive win for me.. As long as the codecs were known, they could be plugged into, say, ps3mediaserver as a configuration plugin and have my i7 server do all the transcoding (via mplayer/tsmuxer)..

btw, is it confirmed that the traditional 30sec skip is supported on the Premiere with the traditional key sequence? Because the one thing Tivo could do that would have me ditch them immediately would be to irreparably f--k with 30s skip.

really? I never use the 30 second skip, it's not exact enough. I'm really good with the fast forward / play.
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