The Official AVS TiVo "Series4" Premiere topic - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 3371 Old 03-12-2010, 08:32 AM
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Thanks bfdtv you have been very helpful in answering my questions.

Based on what as been said; it appears the TiVo wishlist will perform about the same as the Sony Keyword or at least close enough. On all the other DVR's I have used you have to type in the keyword all-the-time which for me defeats the purpose.

Ok, on the TiVo you said:

>>>The TiVo Premiere adjusts the default behavior of the ADVANCE button somewhat. Every time you press the ADVANCE button, the TiVo fast forwards through a 30 second interval at high speed. Pressing the ADVANCE multiple times in a row queues added time. Press the button six times by hand (or macro) and the DVR fast forwards through 180 seconds at high speed. You can interrupt this at any time by pressing PLAY. The traditional 30 second "instant" skip is still available for those that want it.

I had forgotten the Sony has this feature-Advance, since I never use it. It basically matches what I have seen on all DVR's. The part that struck me as the most interesting in your statement was adjusts the default behavior. So let me try my question another way. This is how I use commercial skip. It does not matter if there is 15 seconds of commercials or 10 minutes (or more). For example, on American Idol kick-em-off show I think some of the commercials are often 10 minutes or more?.

So while watching a recorded show and a commercial comes on, I select fast forward at 30X speed (some shows are so bad I will select 90X), then when I see the show I hit Play, and the program will start where I want it to. The way I have the user controls set up, this means (for me-user definable), I may see from 0 to at most 15 seconds of commercials - I would say it is from 0 to 5 seconds of commercials 95% of the time. This has nothing to do with how long the commercial break was, etc. The screen shots below are in set up.

Pic 8154: All of these items are adjustable, but I will focus on just the Smart Cue Adjust

Pic 8155: For my 30X speed I have selected an automatic 30 second rewind, and for my 90X speed I have selected a 60 second rewind.

Pic 8156: Sony's explanation etc

Pic 8157: One of their helps on Advance Time Adjust, but I do not use that feature.

There are other adjustments on what I call transport controls Pic 8154; but to me the Smart Cue Adjust is one of the most important.

So does the new TiVo have something like that for commercial skip?
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post #92 of 3371 Old 03-12-2010, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by b_scott View Post

really? I never use the 30 second skip, it's not exact enough. I'm really good with the fast forward / play.

Yep, 30s skip and then the 10s backtrack, been doin that for a long long time and it's probably the primary reason I haven't looked at cableco-provided DVRs.

I actually had an old VCR that attempted to do commercial skipping (presumably via sound levels or some overscan bugs or somesuch) but it never was reliable, and I find the 30s skip works just fine for me.
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post #93 of 3371 Old 03-12-2010, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

This is how I use commercial skip. It does not matter if there is 15 seconds of commercials or 10 minutes (or more). For example, on American Idol kick-em-off show I think some of the commercials are often 10 minutes or more?.

So while watching a recorded show and a commercial comes on, I select fast forward at 30X speed (some shows are so bad I will select 90X), then when I see the show I hit Play, and the program will start where I want it to. The way I have the user controls set up, this means (for me-user definable), I may see from 0 to at most 15 seconds of commercials - I would say it is from 0 to 5 seconds of commercials 95% of the time.

With traditional tivo 30s skip it's much easier than that.. Commercials start, skip-skip-skip-skip-skip-backtrack-backtrack and you are exposed to at most 5-10s of the last commercial. The newer 'Premiere' default skip is more like the 'advance' you mention, where advertisements just whizz by. The traditional tivo skip does not expose a moment of ads, except at the end if you overskip.

Frankly, with a lot of stations, the lead-in ad is usually some station-dependent thing and that doesn't really bother me a whole lot compared to actual ads. For example, on Military Channel the lead-in ad off a break is usually promoting another show on the network, and I can live with the last 10s of that. But another goddamn JG wentworth or reverse-mortgage ad? I would dump Tivo if I couldn't avoid that crap.
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post #94 of 3371 Old 03-12-2010, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otis Widlflower View Post

Yep, 30s skip and then the 10s backtrack, been doin that for a long long time and it's probably the primary reason I haven't looked at cableco-provided DVRs.

I actually had an old VCR that attempted to do commercial skipping (presumably via sound levels or some overscan bugs or somesuch) but it never was reliable, and I find the 30s skip works just fine for me.

I just hit the ff button three times, hit play when I see the program and it usually jumps back automatically just enough to hit the beginning of the return from commercial. If not, I just hit skip back once and I'm good. Usually takes 5 seconds
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post #95 of 3371 Old 03-12-2010, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otis Widlflower View Post

btw, is it confirmed that the traditional 30sec skip is supported on the Premiere with the traditional key sequence? Because the one thing Tivo could do that would have me ditch them immediately would be to irreparably f--k with 30s skip.

That's what I was told. If you want to be 100% certain this option remains in the release software, wait for the reviews.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

So does the new TiVo have something like that for commercial skip?

Yes, the TiVo has autocorrection for both 20x and 60x FF and RW speeds.

You hit the FF button three times for 60x speed, and then you hit the FF button a fourth time (or PLAY) when you see the program. The TiVo autocorrects and skips backward, so you catch the last 1-5 seconds of the commercials without missing any of the program.

TiVo once allowed the user to adjust the skipback using remote codes, but they no longer allow that. They've settled on a liberal skipback tailored for those with average to below average reflexes. You should be fine with the default unless you have FPS-type reflexes and can't adapt.

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post #96 of 3371 Old 03-12-2010, 03:29 PM
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Not sure what "FPS" means but I have to dumb down my reflexes a tad. If I push PLAY as soon as I see the program start back up, inevitably I end up watching the last 10 seconds of commercials. If I let the FF'ing continue a microsecond past when I'd normally push PLAY it lands just perfectly at the continuation of the program.
Using the delayed PLAY method works 95% of the time for me which is just fine. As b_scott said, about 5 seconds tops to skip the ads.
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post #97 of 3371 Old 03-12-2010, 04:12 PM
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I like the 30 sec skip. Since I have a Harmony remote I have buttons programmed with skip macros for 2 min and 3 min skips. During football season I add 90 sec skip macros which covers 90% of football commercials.

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post #98 of 3371 Old 03-12-2010, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott View Post

really? I never use the 30 second skip, it's not exact enough. I'm really good with the fast forward / play.


The 30 second skip in conjuction with the 7 second skip back works perfectly for me. Much faster than using fast forward.

Will The Premiere still have the 7 second Skip back since it does have a 30 second slip forward.

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post #99 of 3371 Old 03-12-2010, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

Thanks bfdtv you have been very helpful in answering my questions.

Based on what as been said; it appears the TiVo wishlist will perform about the same as the Sony Keyword or at least close enough. On all the other DVR's I have used you have to type in the keyword all-the-time which for me defeats the purpose.

Ok, on the TiVo you said:

>>>The TiVo Premiere adjusts the default behavior of the ADVANCE button somewhat. Every time you press the ADVANCE button, the TiVo fast forwards through a 30 second interval at high speed. Pressing the ADVANCE multiple times in a row queues added time. Press the button six times by hand (or macro) and the DVR fast forwards through 180 seconds at high speed. You can interrupt this at any time by pressing PLAY. The traditional 30 second "instant" skip is still available for those that want it.

I had forgotten the Sony has this feature-Advance, since I never use it. It basically matches what I have seen on all DVR's. The part that struck me as the most interesting in your statement was adjusts the default behavior. So let me try my question another way. This is how I use commercial skip. It does not matter if there is 15 seconds of commercials or 10 minutes (or more). For example, on American Idol kick-em-off show I think some of the commercials are often 10 minutes or more?.

So while watching a recorded show and a commercial comes on, I select fast forward at 30X speed (some shows are so bad I will select 90X), then when I see the show I hit Play, and the program will start where I want it to. The way I have the user controls set up, this means (for me-user definable), I may see from 0 to at most 15 seconds of commercials - I would say it is from 0 to 5 seconds of commercials 95% of the time. This has nothing to do with how long the commercial break was, etc. The screen shots below are in set up.

Pic 8154: All of these items are adjustable, but I will focus on just the Smart Cue Adjust

Pic 8155: For my 30X speed I have selected an automatic 30 second rewind, and for my 90X speed I have selected a 60 second rewind.

Pic 8156: Sony's explanation etc

Pic 8157: One of their helps on Advance Time Adjust, but I do not use that feature.

There are other adjustments on what I call transport controls Pic 8154; but to me the Smart Cue Adjust is one of the most important.

So does the new TiVo have something like that for commercial skip?


I'm glad the TiVo doesn't have a bucnh of adjustments like that. It would be a PITA having to adjust everything on my nine TiVos. then I would have to mess around with it constantly since I would know the settings are there. Sometimes having less adjustments is better.

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post #100 of 3371 Old 03-12-2010, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post


You hit the FF button three times for 60x speed, and then you hit the FF button a fourth time (or PLAY) when you see the program. The TiVo autocorrects and skips backward, so you catch the last 1-5 seconds of the commercials without missing any of the program.

TiVo once allowed the user to adjust the skipback using remote codes, but they no longer allow that. They've settled on a liberal skipback tailored for those with average to below average reflexes. You should be fine with the default unless you have FPS-type reflexes and can't adapt.


That sounds like it should work. I can macro the 60x, and if the "rewind" is liberal for a slow response person like me; I would only have to hit two buttons like I do now, and not hit advance skip 10 to 30 times and pray; it is for that very reason I did not like all that advance skip stuff - way too many button hits.
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post #101 of 3371 Old 03-12-2010, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

I'm glad the TiVo doesn't have a bucnh of adjustments like that. It would be a PITA having to adjust everything on my nine TiVos. then I would have to mess around with it constantly since I would know the settings are there. Sometimes having less adjustments is better.

I made the "one" adjustment about 5 years ago - so I can still handle that just fine.
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post #102 of 3371 Old 03-15-2010, 09:16 AM
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A hard 30-sec skip works great when I want to watch a recorded football game in a short amount of time. Right after a play ends you skip 30 sec and they're usually at the line of scrimmage again. Of course, if you see a penalty flag you have to adjust for that, and sometimes I don't skip if I want to see the replay.
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post #103 of 3371 Old 03-17-2010, 10:44 PM - Thread Starter
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I updated the first post with more information.

HDTV Recorder Comparison Chart | DTVPal DVR FAQ | New! TiVo Premiere (Series4) FAQ |
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post #104 of 3371 Old 03-20-2010, 08:05 AM
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Any word if they improved the ATSC OTA tuners in the Premiere?
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post #105 of 3371 Old 03-20-2010, 08:54 AM
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Why is there no gigabit Ethernet built in?

FAIL
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post #106 of 3371 Old 03-20-2010, 09:57 AM
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Because it's not needed now with current hardware capabilities and internet download speeds?

DUMB
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post #107 of 3371 Old 03-20-2010, 01:17 PM
 
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Any word if they improved the ATSC OTA tuners in the Premiere?

Uh, I wasn't aware that there were any specific needs (except in the realm of reliability and robustness, and there, only with regard to lingering analog reception) with respect to the OTA tuners. I have always been under the impression that the OTA tuners in the S3 and HD were considered to be pretty darned impressive.
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post #108 of 3371 Old 03-20-2010, 01:48 PM
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Hi sorry to be so new and thick and silly!

i always blew off tivo thinking that my cable provider made it hard for me to use! however now i am interested in premiere but i want to be able to transfer shows from the tivo to my pc then on to my phone.

is this possible? if i am networked with the pc is all i need tivo desktop plus software to do the transfers?

if not is it because of copy protection? and if thats true is there a way to figure out whats protected and whats not protected. also is there any third party software that will allow me to re-encode the files anyway and move them where i want
[like the pc]and play them?


thanks in advance!
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post #109 of 3371 Old 03-20-2010, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillyrabbitt123 View Post

Hi sorry to be so new and thick and silly!

i always blew off tivo thinking that my cable provider made it hard for me to use! however now i am interested in premiere but i want to be able to transfer shows from the tivo to my pc then on to my phone.

is this possible? if i am networked with the pc is all i need tivo desktop plus software to do the transfers?

if not is it because of copy protection? and if thats true is there a way to figure out whats protected and whats not protected. also is there any third party software that will allow me to re-encode the files anyway and move them where i want
[like the pc]and play them?


thanks in advance!

One of the products to do this is Tivo DeskTop Plus. Follow this link to the 2nd post of the TivoHD thread and bfdtv's FAQ. Click on the "Downloading Recordings" tab and it explains the product and it's limitations. If the tab doesn't work, scroll down to item 139 in the FAQ.
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post #110 of 3371 Old 03-20-2010, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moxie1617 View Post

One of the products to do this is Tivo DeskTop Plus. Follow this link to the 2nd post of the TivoHD thread and bfdtv's FAQ. Click on the "Downloading Recordings" tab and it explains the product and it's limitations. If the tab doesn't work, scroll down to item 139 in the FAQ.

THANKS for the info! WOW! What an FAQ!!

Quick question though:

FROM the FAQ
"You can download any SD or HD recording, so long as it is not copy-protected (CCI 0x02). There is no copy protection on local channels. On most cable systems, only the premium movie channels are copy protected."

How does Cablevision do it? Is everything copy protected from them?

thanks again!
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post #111 of 3371 Old 03-20-2010, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillyrabbitt123 View Post

THANKS for the info! WOW! What an FAQ!!

Quick question though:

FROM the FAQ
"You can download any SD or HD recording, so long as it is not copy-protected (CCI 0x02). There is no copy protection on local channels. On most cable systems, only the premium movie channels are copy protected."

How does Cablevision do it? Is everything copy protected from them?

thanks again!

I'm not certain if copy protection practices for a cable company are standard between each area. I would check to see if there is a local thread here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...93#post4440893 for your area and ask there. Or, post the area you are in here and maybe someone can help you.
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post #112 of 3371 Old 03-21-2010, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jhuehne View Post

Why is there no gigabit Ethernet built in?

FAIL

No point in gigabit if it can't take advantage of the speed.

It certainly won't affect the use of my six Premieres. I'll still be transferring Terabytes of content each month, just like I do now with my nine TiVos.

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post #113 of 3371 Old 03-21-2010, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moxie1617 View Post

I'm not certain if copy protection practices for a cable company are standard between each area. I would check to see if there is a local thread here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...93#post4440893 for your area and ask there. Or, post the area you are in here and maybe someone can help you.


thanks will do!!
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post #114 of 3371 Old 03-21-2010, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

You can use several software applications including TiVo Desktop to effect bidirectional transfers of TiVo recorded content to or from your PC. Then with an editing/authoring package like Video ReDo you can burn the HD content to BD or to DVD as AVCHD.

This of course works as long as your cable provider does not set the copy once flag on the programs of interest. It works for all programs recorded OTA.

Thanks for the reply. If the copy once flag is set, shouldn't the TIVO software allow one copy to be transferred to the PC (and the original erased?). They should be able to develop software that would limit copying thereafter (such as only burning once to blu-ray).
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post #115 of 3371 Old 03-21-2010, 06:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply. If the copy once flag is set, shouldn't the TIVO software allow one copy to be transferred to the PC (and the original erased?). They should be able to develop software that would limit copying thereafter (such as only burning once to blu-ray).

Cable Labs -- the consortium of cable companies responsible for the CableCard standard and all related licenses -- does not permit downloads of copy protected recordings to a computer. If a manufacturer wants to produce a CableCard box or tuner for retail, it has to abide by CableLabs' requirements.

Windows Media Center 7 equipped with a CableCard tuner (like the $399 Ceton) records copy protected content to a PC hard drive, but it is protected with DRM. Those protected recordings can't be edited or played on another computer.

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post #116 of 3371 Old 03-21-2010, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

No point in gigabit if it can't take advantage of the speed.

It certainly won't affect the use of my six Premieres. I'll still be transferring Terabytes of content each month, just like I do now with my nine TiVos.



How the heck to you have enough rooms to have that many TVs, to support 9 Tivos? Also, have enough time to watch the amount of TV a week that you'd have to record to justify that many? haha
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I'm seeing release dates of late March for the new TiVo's. At Amazon it was April 12th and it's now March 28th.
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post #119 of 3371 Old 03-21-2010, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Cable Labs -- the consortium of cable companies responsible for the CableCard standard and all related licenses -- does not permit downloads of copy protected recordings to a computer. If a manufacturer wants to produce a CableCard box or tuner for retail, it has to abide by CableLabs' requirements.

Windows Media Center 7 equipped with a CableCard tuner (like the $399 Ceton) records copy protected content to a PC hard drive, but it is protected with DRM. Those protected recordings can't be edited or played on another computer.

You would think Tivo would go to bat for consumers on this issue. Recording can already be done via component video outputs, so cablelabs is losing the battle -- not to mention that the cable cos are inconsistent with use of the flag. For those of us who have had DVR hard drives crash, we know that a DVR is a poor substitute for a permanent archive.
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post #120 of 3371 Old 03-21-2010, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott View Post



How the heck to you have enough rooms to have that many TVs, to support 9 Tivos? Also, have enough time to watch the amount of TV a week that you'd have to record to justify that many? haha

I probably have 9 DVDRs I'd get newer ones as they became available and got some great deals on others as they became available used. Also with DVDRs since they only had one tuner I'd need multiple ones to record more than one channel at a time. I only have one Tivo HD though and for the most part just use my favorite EH-55 DVDR to offload my Tivo HD of programs I really care to archive.
I was tempted by a $150 floor model Tivo HD at BB(probably was never even plugged in) but with Tivo it's not just the $150, I'd also want to get lifetime which would add another $300 I believe. Needless to say I passed on the Tivo and it was gone a few days later. Oh well, someone else got a good deal
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